Anti-Israel article in British paper [Archive]

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Artotyrite

04-13-2002, 08:13 AM

This is why outside military intervention is required NOW.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=284436

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=284438

Soul

04-13-2002, 08:32 AM

America will never allow international forces.American has got the Veto privillage , which it has always used against Palestine.

I just ask god to help the victims and thier families, and to punish the monsters.

Artotyrite

04-13-2002, 08:36 AM

Many of us here in America are fed up about this conflict and since September 11th, the mood of the people has grown to embrace interventionism. If we are to be the policeman of the world, so be it.

Soul

04-13-2002, 08:43 AM

America is the policeman of all the world , apart of Israel.They just can't do anything , The Jewish lobby in America is larger than any scale.

I will show you some examples,

"I've never seen a president --I don't care who he is-- stand up to them [the Israelis]. It just boggles your mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what's going on all the time. I got to the point where I wasn't writing anything down. If the American people understood what grip those people have on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens don't have any idea what goes on." --Admiral Thomas Moorer of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. (See Washington Report 12/1999, p.124 quoting from Andrew Hurley's book, "One Nation Under Israel")

"The Israeli Prime Minister has a lot more influence over the foreign policy of the United States in the Middle East than he has in his own country." -- Former Congressman Paul Findley, in his book They Dare to Speak Out, p. 92.
"The Israelis control the policy in the congress and the senate ... somewhere around 80 percent of the senate of the United States is completely in support of Israel -- of anything Israel wants...." -- Chairman Senator Fullbright, 10/07/1973 on CBS' "Face the Nation".

"We have exhausted our requests. President Clinton has answered all our needs. There has been no American president in history like President Clinton, in his support of Israel and the Jewish people." --Shimon Peres (From Washington Report, July 1996, pg. 17)

"President Clinton behaves like an obedient child of Israel and does not know how to say `No.'" -- Nahum Barnea, Israeli writer (From Washington Report, July 1996, pg. 17)

"The Capitol Hill is an Israeli occupied territory". -- Patrick Buchanan (St. Louis Dispatch, 10/20/1990).

"I am aware how almost impossible it is in this country to carry out a foreign policy [in the Middle East] not approved by the Jews. [Former Secretary of State George] Marshall and [former Defense Secretary James] Forrestral learned that" -- Sec. of State John Foster Dulles in Feb. 1957 quoted on p.99 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff

"... terrific control the Jews have over the news media and the barrage the Jews have built up on congressmen .... I am very much concerned over the fact that the Jewish influence here is completely dominating the scene and making it almost impossible to get congress to do anything they don't approve of. The Israeli embassy is practically dictating to the congress through influential Jewish people in the country" -- Sec. of State John Foster Dulles in Feb. 1957 quoted on p.99 of Fallen Pillars by Donald Neff

"I know I was elected by the votes of American Jews. I owe them my victory. Tell me, is there something I ought to do?" -- U.S. President John F. Kennedy speaking privately to Ben-Gurion (p.90 A & L Cockburn 1991).

"The little Knesset" -- Sec. of state James Baker describing pro-Israel Congressmen, quoted in the Web Page of the Zionist Organization of America, which, in turn, quotes the Los Angeles Times (March 7, 1992)

"I do not think I ever had as much pressure and propaganda aimed at the White House as I had in this instance" -- U.S. President Harry Truman writing in his memoirs about the Zionist pressure to support the partition of Palestine.

I think these are enough.If today Bush decides to send Troops to The M.E .. tommrow he is out of the White House.As simply as it stands.

bakuda

04-14-2002, 11:38 PM

And we should let our voices be heard even more. All Jews should vote... and all jews should be active in what they believe. I do not see anything wrong with these quotes.... aside that some are inspired by fear/anti-semitism. I however think that most of our power as well as weakness stems from the belief by so many that we HAVE this power.... it's this fantastic belief that we controle everything that scares people. I mean seriously, you'd know all these excessive statements are unwarrented if you just look at the news. One Controverial Q: Should Bush have won the presidency? And what was the result???? Just this itself dispells your whole 'jewish conspiracy theory' ...a phobia you undoubtably live by.

"somewhere around 80 percent of the senate of the United States is completely in support of Israel" --well obviously,.... that is because they know the truth.

McSceptic

04-14-2002, 11:58 PM

A lot of American politicians used to support the IRA - in our view they were wrong to do that.

I don't think US politicians are any smarter than the ones we have.

I believe that Muslims now (slightly) outnumber Jews in America? So if they wanted to, they could put together their own lobby. I don't expect that would happen as Islam doesn't have a common ethnic base like Judaism.

ibrodsky

04-15-2002, 04:40 AM

Actually, there are about twice as many Jews in the US as Muslims. It's just that some Muslims are trying to convince the US that they are much more numerous than they really are... it's an implied threat.

Is it hard to believe that if some Muslims are willing to make themselves human bombs, than others are willing to lie through their teeth?

The above posts are intended to show that the US is being manipulated by a Jewish minority.

What our Muslim friends hope to distract people from seeing is that a clear majority of Americans support Israel and have for many, many years. Opinion poll after opinion poll shows that American support for Israel runs 5 - 6 times greater than American support for Palestinians.

Most Americans see a link between Palestinian suicide/homicide bombers and the WTC massacre. Not surprising, as both were/are inspired by the same ideology.

muslim4israel2

04-15-2002, 05:55 AM

The state dept says there are 6m muslims in the USA-equal roughly to Jews.

Shuki

04-15-2002, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Artotyrite
This is why outside military intervention is required NOW.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=284436

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=284438

This is all unsubstantiated. It may turn out that there is a coverup, but what you have here is not proof of it. It is a poor article to use as proof of a problem.

TexasMan

04-15-2002, 10:06 AM

The us has our own battles to fight. The israel army can take care of itself. There are 500K muslems in the US according to the figures I heard.

The US is not the policeman of the world. It is more like the babysitter of the world.

"Yes yasser, if you punch ariel in the face he is stronger than you and will beat the hell out of you. An if I don't stop him he may kill you. Dont do that."

Texasman

cerulean

04-15-2002, 10:10 AM

There's certainly not six million Muslims in the United States. That appears to be a figure chosen for its obvious emotional content. Also, Muslims are eager to be seen as outnumbering Jews in the United States.

Two recent studies have been done, by the National Opinion Research Center and the City University of New York.

http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/RelatedArticles.asp?did=374

Oh Jerusalem

04-15-2002, 10:18 AM

Yes, reported by Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/articles/article.php?id=76), too.

Ezra

04-15-2002, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by muslim4israel2
The state dept says there are 6m muslims in the USA-equal roughly to Jews.

This is what the CAIR says (An America-Islamic council). They paid to some people (can't remember from where) to publish these numbers. There was a very interesting article about the illegal "games" Islamic institutions do in the US to make it seem like there are 10 million Muslims in the US!

Columbia University did a survey 2 years ago (again I'll try to fins the link for that) for the Muslims in the US and appeared to be around 2.5 million. You can remove half of this number now after 9/11 !!

Ezra

04-15-2002, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by muslim4israel2
The state dept says there are 6m muslims in the USA-equal roughly to Jews.

The state depts doesn't have any numbers because it's forbidden to ask about religion in the census.

Please be more accurate before saying any word. Thank you.

muslim4israel2

04-15-2002, 01:17 PM

I'm just going by what I read online. I've read estimates from 2-8m, but cos it was a SD site, I gave 6m credit.

Whatever the figure its rising, and globally of course we out number Jews rather nicely.

Shuki

04-15-2002, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by muslim4israel2
I'm just going by what I read online. I've read estimates from 2-8m, but cos it was a SD site, I gave 6m credit.

Whatever the figure its rising, and globally of course we out number Jews rather nicely.

Quality, not quantity is what is important. :p

Shuki

04-15-2002, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by konapo
Youi people in Isael dont like the fact that here in Europe we speak the trueth...then deal with it. you will have to face us someday

We could say the same about you. The facts speak for themselves- Israel is here to stay.

NewsGuy

04-15-2002, 02:19 PM

NewsGuy

04-15-2002, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by konapo
what happened in Lebannon in 1982 is a fact by itself. this and only this is enough to send Sharon in Hage...and he would be there if he wasnt the president of Israel. and i think this is the reason people there like him; for being a murderer! :mad:
We've been hearing this same old tired lie from the Arabs and their apologists, about Lebanon. When will you finally stop living in denial and realize that you can't keep on blaming Ariel Sharon for one group of Arabs murdering another group of Arabs?

Obviously, there is a huge problem of violence and devaluing life in Arab society that leaeds to killing one anohtre, but it is the Arabs who need to solve their own problem, not Israel.

Shuki

04-15-2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by konapo
you dont have a chance without damn USA...but you will face us. you wont do anything with terror. you cant deny the fact that your army attacks civilians. Arafat is NOT a terrorist. Sharon is the REAL TERRORIST. we all know what that bastard did in Lebannon in 1982 as the minister of defence of Israel...and remember: we wont forget!!! :mad:

Your incessant ranting and raving will not change anything. NewsGuy already told you to drop the whining about Sharon, but I'll second it.

Your posts have not been factually based or logically constructed. You make claims but do not support them. Israel has acknowledged that civilians have been killed. THey are not happy nor pleased about it, but it has happened.

As opposed to the terrorist Arafat who supports the murder of innocent people and helps to facilitate support for their families. It is a well known fact that the PA and Iraq are offer cash to the families of suicide bombers.

In effect your ranting helps to support us as it makes the Palestinian cause appear to be supported by lunatics.

NewsGuy

04-15-2002, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by konapo
what happened in Lebannon in 1982 is a fact by itself.
Yes, it is a fact that "what happened" in Lebanon is that one group of Arabs decided to slaughter another group of Arabs and you cannot blame Israel for the actions of the Arabs against one another.

We already discussed this topic in great detail here:

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?threadid=79

Shuki

04-15-2002, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by konapo
"At issue are three incidents in Sharon's past. The first took place in 1953, when a force under his command raided Qibya, a West Bank village, killing more than 60 inhabitants. Israeli historian Benny Morris writes that Sharon's unit received instructions to carry out "destruction and maximum killing" to retaliate for a Palestinian terrorist attack originating elsewhere. A contemporaneous Time magazine report said Sharon's soldiers shot "every man, woman and child they could find" and then dynamited 42 houses, a school and a mosque. "The cries of the dying," the magazine reported, "could be heard amidst the explosions."
..........................................

The second incident took place during Israel's 1982 thrust into Lebanon, when Sharon was defense minister and chief architect of the campaign. For three months Israeli forces laid siege to West Beirut, where Palestinian guerrillas had dug in amid the civilian population. At the time, a Washington Post correspondent wrote that Sharon's army subjected the city to "punishment so intense and indiscriminate that terror was the result."
..........................................

The third case--the famed massacres at Sabra and Shatila--occurred Sept. 16-18, 1982, toward the end of the battle for Beirut. The Falangists, an Israeli-allied Lebanese militia, were ordered by Sharon to mop up armed resistance in Palestinian refugee camps as Israeli forces stood guard. According to Israeli military intelligence, Falangist gunmen killed 700 to 800 civilians, but Palestinians sources estimate 2,000 dead. New York Times journalist Thomas Friedman saw "groups of young men in their twenties and thirties who had been lined up against walls, tied by their hands and feet, and then mowed down gangland style." Women, children and the elderly were also among those slain in the 62-hour assault.
..........................................
[/URL]

Still silliness- Sharon was found to be partially responsible for Sabra and Shatilla- he did not order the troops in.

As opposed to Arafat who has been applauded for his actions as a murderer. If not for Arafat Sharon would not even be in office.

NewsGuy

04-15-2002, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by konapo
this is a part of an article written before the ellections and you can find it
here (http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?threadid=512&goto=newpost)
There's no source for the article, just your "discussion" in another thread.

Please tell us specifically, what is exactly the source of the article you are quoting from?

Shuki

04-15-2002, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by konapo
Article is written By JAMES RON, LA Times, Monday, February 5, 2001

i fixed the link.

just go to http://www.mideastfacts.com/jamesron_on_sharonmilosevic.html

Are you ever going to respond to the issues I raised in earlier posts. Since you haven't I am going to be "forced" to believe that you never intended to give Israel a chance here and had already made up your mind.

NewsGuy

04-15-2002, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by konapo
Article is written By JAMES RON, LA Times, Monday, February 5, 2001

i fixed the link.[/URL]
Thanks.

klc

04-15-2002, 06:55 PM