They Asked for the Truth

[NewsGuy]

An IsraelForum.com original article. Feel free to republish in its entirety with proper credit.


They Asked for the Truth
By Michael Rand

(IsraelForum.com) -- Preface: Before discussing the lessons that Europe should learn from the Madrid massacre, it is important to start off by conveying our sincere sympathy for the Spanish victims of Islamic terrorism. Unlike other European nations, Spain in particular, has been at the forefront of the fight for the freedom of millions of Iraqis, and for a world that would be free of the type of evil Jihadism, like that which claimed the lives of hundreds of innocent Spaniards.

We note that the Israeli Parliament has observed a moment of silence in solidarity with the Spanish victims of this abominable Muslim terrorist massacre. "I hope that nobody fools himself into thinking that it could happen only in Spain. They said that about New York and Israel,” said Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. “Slowly but surely, terrorism spreads from country to country like a cancer. The immediate conclusion is that we have to seriously join forces to fight terrorism and those who condone it."

* * *

When Islamic terrorists massacred Israelis, Europe blamed it on the victims. When Islamic terrorists massacred Americans, Europe stood in solidarity for a brief moment, then they blamed it on the victims just the same. And when Islamic terrorism struck Madrid, many Europeans still blamed it on the victims, just as soon as they recovered from their shock. But then European security services scrambled to prepare for the next Islamic mega-terror attack, because the Europeans began to understand that their citizens are nothing but sitting ducks in the Islamist global war against Western society.

No amount of bribery, no amount of appeasement, and no amount of anti-Americanism will save Europe from its inevitable fate of becoming a bloody casualty of the Islamic Jihad. Unfortunately, the Europeans still fundamentally misunderstand both the scope of the problem, as well as the motivations of the murderous Jihadists.

The foot soldiers of militant Islam are much more numerous than most Europeans realize. Saudi-funded Islamic hate factories disguised as religious schools that they call “Madrases” churn out an endless supply of new terrorism recruits each day. These young Muslim fanatics couldn’t care less about whether the Europeans support anti-Semitic resolutions at the UN, nor are they overly impressed with the appalling plethora of other Arab-appeasement policies the Europeans have adopted.

Bribery, Appeasement, and Surrender

For the graduates of the Islamic Madrases there is but one reality, which is that the Europeans are "Infidels" and "Crusaders" and therefore, natural enemies of fundamentalist Islam. Much to their detriment, most Europeans have not been, so far, capable of grasping the Islamists’ point of view.

Those few Europeans who have understood the true nature of the Islamist problem have been shunned and silenced for fear of stirring the pot. In fact, the Europeans’ worst fear is being forced to actually confront Islamic terrorism, because that would make any European leader doing so unpopular among Arab and Leftist constituents. It would also require the Europeans to have a degree of integrity and courage, which so far have only been seen in America.

Many Europeans still appear to hold the hope that their national strategy of bribery, appeasement, and surrender will persuade the Islamists to keep the Jihad outside the old continent’s borders. But the militant Muslim groups only take the European’s lack of moral clarity to be a sign of weakness.

Spain as Soft Target

Some might hypothesize that Spain was struck by the Islamists as punishment for Spanish support for the American war against global terrorism. While the American connection provides a convenient explanation designed to lull some Europeans into a false sense of security, in official European circles, the view was quite different.

Following the Madrid massacre, security was frantically beefed up throughout Europe, especially in public transportation facilities.

Even France, which is known for its official support for Islamic terrorism groups like Hizbullah, still went into a high security alert. The French secret service knows full well that Spain was chosen by the Islamists for a massive terrorism attack, because of the operational infrastructure afforded to the terrorists through the country’s extensive Muslim community. As such, Spain presented the Jihadists with a soft target.

And, many other European nations, like France for example, are vulnerable in exactly the same way that Spain is. With this realization, Europe will now be forced to enter into a new era of fear-filled existence. Despite statements to the contrary, Europeans know full well that they are painfully vulnerable to the inevitable Islamist mega-terrorist attacks that are, unfortunately, already in the works. The only question is whether Europe is ready yet to shift from a strategy of appeasement to one of confrontation, which is the only solution for the global pandemic of Islamic terrorism.

* * *

What do you think?

[L@mplighterM]

Spain has its national election tomorrow and then we’ll see if that country moves to the left. I don’t believe that the EU will crack down on Islamic fundamentalism as a matter of fact I think that we’re entering an age of appeasing Islam. There’s a significant movement to the left in the US and if an election were held tomorrow it would most likely be a Democratic win.

I don’t think its abnormal for individuals to look for answers to explain why Islamic terrorists behave the way they do and I don’t think it’s illogical to reach the conclusion that we have done something to justify terrorist attacks (I don’t think that way).

It seems likely that Blair will be ousted in the next British election and it doesn’t look like Bush has an assured win. Bush has his faults but he’s the best chance that the world has in its fight against terrorism.

[peacelover]

Very interesting Newsguy - did you write it?

The main thing I want to pick up on from this article is the fact I think Britain (I can't speak for the rest of Europe) is still very complacent about the threat of an attack.

I split my time between three cities in England - London is the most stringent in its security, as you might expect, but the fact is if I wanted to set off a bomb somewhere, I could. You are not searched before getting on the tube, for example.

The other two places I live are even worse. At least in London they might search you before letting you into a nightclub.

I was wondering what the security is like in Israel - can you get on a train without being searched? Can you get into a club without getting searched? Theme Parks etc?

Because the more I think about it, the more I think that if you know how to make a bomb, the actual distribution of it is very easy. Suposedly we ae on high terror alert - maybe this means they search airports more thoroughly, but I think if I were a terrorist, I'd strike where they don't expect it.... where the security is weak. We need to start thinking about protecting people in everyday lives -the bombers could strike anywhere.

I guess this makes England a "soft target" - I see with my own eyes here what the article describes in Spain. And it's worrying.

How much planning could such an attack really take? If we're not careful, these are going to become so commonplace they barely make the news headlines anymore.

When Islamic terrorists massacred Israelis, Europe blamed it on the victims. When Islamic terrorists massacred Americans, Europe stood in solidarity for a brief moment, then they blamed it on the victims just the same. And when Islamic terrorism struck Madrid, many Europeans still blamed it on the victims, just as soon as they recovered from their shock

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's important to stress that *SOME* Europeans blamed the *GOVERNMENTS* of the victims. It is a gross misrepresentation of the average European feeling to say the man on the street said when hearing of a baby murdered in Israel "it was that baby's personal fault".

It is also important to remember when looking at opinion polls etc how many of the votes are cast by Muslim immigrants - it's not clear when yuo say 'Europeans' whether they are included. Their presence greatly distorts the picture if you are trying to assess the non-Muslim population.

Those few Europeans who have understood the true nature of the Islamist problem have been shunned and silenced for fear of stirring the pot. In fact, the Europeans’ worst fear is being forced to actually confront Islamic terrorism, because that would make any European leader doing so unpopular among Arab and Leftist constituents. It would also require the Europeans to have a degree of integrity and courage, which so far have only been seen in America.

Do you include Britain and Spain in this?

But I take your point - the election results today might well reveal that Europeans are thrown to the left by such attacks - basically reacting exactly the same way the terrorists intended, making their murder a success in their pervese minds.

I can't believe people are going to be naive enough to let themselves be manipulated by terrorists in this way. Maybe once Spain elects its leftwing government, withdraws its support for the war on terror, and then still gets bombed, people will learn.

I think, and I'm sorry to speak of more attacks, but I think they are inevitable, it would do the war on terror good if the next attack (if it has to come at all :( ) comes somewhere which has not supported the war etc, such as France, as then people will hopefully stop putting pressure on their governments to appease the terrorists, because of some warped (and bitterly ironic) belief that it is this support for the war on terror which will expose them to attacks.

[Like2Talk]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
Even France, which is known for its official support for Islamic terrorism groups like Hizbullah Who can believe such propaganda ?

France is in the forefront in the fight against terrorism, we just understand that invading arabs countries creates terrorism.

The answer to terrorism is peace, safety and democracy, not spreading wars.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
I don’t believe that the EU will crack down on Islamic fundamentalism as a matter of fact I think that we’re entering an age of appeasing Islam.

I think that will greatly depend on how many more mega-terrorist attacks the Islamists launch on Europe.

If the Eiffel Tower, Buckingham Palace, etc., are vaporized by Muslim extremists, the European view might change.

It seems likely that Blair will be ousted in the next British election and it doesn’t look like Bush has an assured win.
In Bush's case, he is likely to win, although there are certainly a fair number of Americans who hate him for ideological reasons. Nonetheless, many of those who hate him still understand that Bush is a better alternative than "cut the defense budget and throw the borders open" Kerry.

[L@mplighterM]

I wonder if bringing down the Eiffel Tower or sending Buckingham Castle to the moon would serve as a wake up call to the Europeans. There’s been a gradual shift to the left in the west for many years and we’ve entered an age of tolerance.

I think that everyone knows that terrorist attacks will continue and it doesn’t seem like there’s a great willingness to seek out and destroy terrorists and their supporters.

What’s needed are leaders that are willing to call a spade a spade and realize that the fight against Islamic fundamentalism is a religious war or a continuation of the Crusades.

The US dollar was always sought after currency but lately many European exporters demand to be paid in Euros, of course the devaluation of the currency does make the US more competitive. Outsourcing has resulted in major job losses within the US manufacturing sector and is a threat to the national security IMO if other major conflicts arise.

The US has near negative growth at the moment and another major attack will certainly plunge it into a major depression, it takes money to combat terrorism and that comes out of the pockets of taxpayers. With a shrinking tax base there’ll be less money to deal with internal issues and it’ll be harder for any administration to sell nation building in far away places.

[L@mplighterM]

Well we have our answer!

Terrorists in Spain changed the course of history by getting rid of the incumbent government that was helping in the fight against Islamic terrorism.

[David_in_NYC]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
Well we have our answer!

Terrorists in Spain changed the course of history by getting rid of the incumbent government that was helping in the fight against Islamic terrorism.

We'll see... the result of this is not yet written in stone. Let's see what the Socialists choose to do.

There is yet hope - if the Socialists realize that, now that they are back in power, they have to take responsibility for the future, they may be the first among the Left in the civilized world to get on the side of civilization in this war, and drag other leftist parties on board with them.

Or, they can capitulate, guaranteeing future election terror for the rest of Europe.

I refuse to give up hope, even for Europe.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Like2Talk
France is in the forefront in the fight against terrorism,


Link please.

[David_in_NYC]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Link please.

France is at the forefront, as they always are... passing info to the enemy, waving the white flag, and asserting their superiority, as always!

http://www.cheeseeatingsurrendermonkeys.com

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by peacelover
Very interesting Newsguy - did you write it?
Yes. I write some of the articles that appear on this forum.

I was wondering what the security is like in Israel - can you get on a train without being searched? Can you get into a club without getting searched? Theme Parks etc?
Israel has armed security guards and soldiers at the entrances of all public places. I'll leave it, though, to those of our members who live in Israel to fill in some more details.

Because the more I think about it, the more I think that if you know how to make a bomb, the actual distribution of it is very easy.
That's probably true, unfortunately. However, someone who is inclined to set off bombs generally has some kind of history of membership in a terrorist organization or a history of political activism that intelligence agencies may very well be aware of. Those who don't, tend to be more susceptible to acting in ways that could indicate to security forces that a potential problem exists. These are not fool-proof by any means, but these have been used by Israel very effectively in many cases.

Still, the question is how the intelligence agencies react to information. In the case of the 9/11 terrorists, it now turns out that the FBI and CIA had information of the type I described, yet failed to act upon it mainly for fear of upsetting certain civil rights groups. That has changed now.

I would guess that Europe will be forced to change its nonchalant attitude now that large-scale Islamist terrorism has reached its shores.

I guess this makes England a "soft target" - I see with my own eyes here what the article describes in Spain. And it's worrying.
Yes, very.


It is a gross misrepresentation of the average European feeling to say the man on the street said when hearing of a baby murdered in Israel "it was that baby's personal fault".
I guess it depends on which man on the street. Certainly, the European press blames each terrorist attack on Israel. Sometimes the blame is placed on the government of Israel, sometimes the blame is placed on those Israelis who live in border towns, and sometimes the press seems to blame all Israelis for Palestinian terrorism. There are rarely, if ever, articles that blame Palestinian society for glorifying suicide bombers, nor for that matter is there a description of terrorist groups as "terrorist" at all. But there is always finger-pointing at the victims in one way or another. And it is essentially the same with the American victims of terrorism or the Spanish victims at this point.

It is also important to remember when looking at opinion polls etc how many of the votes are cast by Muslim immigrants - it's not clear when you say 'Europeans' whether they are included. Their presence greatly distorts the picture if you are trying to assess the non-Muslim population.
That's a very good point. The Muslim community's direct and indirect support of terrorism does tilt the perception of Europeans. But the European Left, too, shares many of the same values that are held by the Muslim community when it comes to appeasement of terrorists, anti-Americanism, and anti-Semitism.

...then people will hopefully stop putting pressure on their governments to appease the terrorists, because of some warped (and bitterly ironic) belief that it is this support for the war on terror which will expose them to attacks.
Well said. In essence, the position of the European Leftists is that confronting terrorists causes terrorism. That is as silly as saying that punishing murderers causes more murders.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
If the Eiffel Tower, Buckingham Palace, etc., are vaporized by Muslim extremists, the European view might change.

I think we saw this last weekend that this is not true. I think Europe has turned a key corner. Islamic terrorism can officially and with the blessings of the voters bitch-slap EU governments around at will. I honestly do not believe that increasing terrorist attacks in EU has any potential downside for terrorists. Why?

1) Terrorist organizations are officially recognized as legitimate near-states and NGO's by most EU governments.

2) Terrorism is recognized as a legitimate tool of foreign policy of these near-states and NGO's by most EU governments.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
We'll see... the result of this is not yet written in stone. Let's see what the Socialists choose to do.

There is yet hope - if the Socialists realize that, now that they are back in power, they have to take responsibility for the future, they may be the first among the Left in the civilized world to get on the side of civilization in this war, and drag other leftist parties on board with them.

Or, they can capitulate, guaranteeing future election terror for the rest of Europe.

I refuse to give up hope, even for Europe.

A tiger is a tiger and a socialist is a socialist.

The Socialists were elected in Spain because they promise to end Spain's pro-America stance. The Spanish Socialist Workers Party was founded in the 1800s as a Marxist organization. Like many socialist parties, it has drifted away from revolutionary Marxism in favor of a reformist agenda (i.e., gradual evolution of Spain to a socialist paradise).

Spain's Socialist Party was expected to lose this election because of its stance on ETA--and that explains the current government's eagerness to blame ETA. Spain's Socialist Party is allied with a smaller party that has friendly relations with ETA; in recent talks with ETA it was agreed ETA would end all attacks in Catalonia.

So in a nutshell, Spain has just elected a party that is opposed to the U.S. fighting the terrorists and believes in negotiating with terrorists to get them to limit their mass murder attacks to specific geographical regions.

I think clearly that as Islamist mass murder attacks spread across Europe we are likely to see more election results of this sort. Europe will elect governments that are more overtly anti-American and pro-Palestinian.

Keep in mind that last October there were big demonstrations in Spain with banners reading "Occupation troops out of Iraq and Palestine."

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
I think we saw this last weekend that this is not true. I think Europe has turned a key corner. Islamic terrorism can officially and with the blessings of the voters bitch-slap EU governments around at will. I honestly do not believe that increasing terrorist attacks in EU has any potential downside for terrorists. Why?

1) Terrorist organizations are officially recognized as legitimate near-states and NGO's by most EU governments.

2) Terrorism is recognized as a legitimate tool of foreign policy of these near-states and NGO's by most EU governments.

True, Europeans support Islamic terrorism, but mainly when it is directed against Jews and Americans.

Although the European governments are outwardly subservient to the Muslim terrorists, the European intelligence agencies, on the other hand, are gearing up for infiltrating the Muslim community's terrorism support network.

We'll see how things turn out when Islamic terrorism strips Europe's of the symbols of its long-past glory. I think that even the cowardly, terrorism-appeasing European public will change its mind.

[peacelover]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
True, Europeans support Islamic terrorism, but mainly when it is directed against Jews and Americans.

Although the European governments are outwardly subservient to the Muslim terrorists, the European intelligence agencies, on the other hand, are gearing up for infiltrating the Muslim community's terrorism support network.

We'll see how things turn out when Islamic terrorism strips Europe's of the symbols of its long-past glory. I think that even the cowardly, terrorism-appeasing European public will change its mind.

I think you're generalising European people a bit here....

Are we all cowardly?

[Like2Talk]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Link please. http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=5177 try reading your own forum sometimes, and the news as well (like the IHT)



In reality I think you are not that stupid. I mean you make 'as if' the excellent cooperation of the US and France (and Europe) as well did not exist. And this cooperation never stopped even when you were unleashing your hatred at the maximum.

You make 'as if there were not french troops in Afganistan, not only for peacekeeping, like the germans, but also for direct action. You make as if french human intelligence wasn't much better than US. I think it is still, but maybe not for long.

Some bombings have been stopped thanks to it. Some we know about, most we don't.


But you know what ? You are not going to speak about it because it doesn't fit your extremist views of the world.
read the editorials of this site : they are not dealing with reality, but building a fictionnal world for the fanatics and the naive.
This site is meant as a propagada tool

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Like2Talk

But you know what ? You are not going to speak about it because it doesn't fit your extremist views of the world.
read the editorials of this site : they are not dealing with reality, but building a fictionnal world for the fanatics and the naive.
This site is meant as a propagada tool

Then what are you doing here?

[Ahava]

Originally posted by peacelover
I think you're generalising European people a bit here....

Are we all cowardly?

Yes it is generalising and no we are not all cowardly. Unfortunately people like Like2Talk stimulate this generalising.

[Like2Talk]

Originally posted by Ahava
Then what are you doing here? Probably the same thing you do actually.

[CanDo]

1,400 Years of Islamic Aggression

From the Article:

"Imperialistic

The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism -- "the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.""

http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/Commentary/IslamHistory0212.asp

Also from the article:

To beat the dog one more time, you may have noted that I stated above that Muslim imperialism has continued until the present. Muslim imperialism has continued without any let-up from ten years before Mohammed's death until today.

Consider the Ottoman invasion of Christian Eastern Europe in which the Ottoman Empire invaded the west and conquered and colonized Greece, all of the Balkans, Romania, Bessarabia, and Hungary, and was stopped only at the outskirts of Vienna in 1529. Consider also the Muhgal conquest of Northern India in the early 1600s. But today? Of course! In the 20th century alone:

1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.

2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.

3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.

4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.

5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.

6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.

7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is currently continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world's 57 Islamic nations.

8. For no good reason, Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.

9. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist war of aggression, invaded and occupied Muslim Kuwait.

10. Muslim Iraq, in an imperialist act of aggression, invaded Muslim Iran with a resulting (some estimates say) death of 2 million people.

11. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia's expense.

12. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.

13. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.

14. During Jordan's occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.

[David_in_NYC]

One of these days, Ahava and Mira will realize that they are de facto allies of Like2Talk and takeo and all the other Jew-haters out there.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
One of these days, Ahava and Mira will realize that they are de facto allies of Like2Talk and takeo and all the other Jew-haters out there.

Sorry?!

[peacelover]

Originally posted by Ahava
Sorry?!

Ignore him!!!

[Mediocrates]

End the American Occupation of Europe.



I only wish that as a natural consequence of the inevitable insinuation of terrorists into EU politics that those terrorists call for the complete removal of all US troops from all EU states and from NATO as well.

I welcome the opportunity to withdraw 100% of all US military facilities from the continent of Europe including all peacekeeping missions in the Balkans and security support for the Athens Olympics.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=87452#post87452