Religious discussion - 1

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by klc
No one on earth has the same DNA as Jews - we are as unique as they come.

I assume you meant this metaphorically. Scientifically, I have never heard of any such thing, except in the case of Jewish Cohanim, the priestly descendants of Aharon:

http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/The_Cohanim_-_DNA_Connection.asp

When considerring the intermingling of the Erev Rav among Israel during the exodus from Egypt, as well as the acceptance of converts throughout several thousands of years, I doubt that it is possible to detect a distinct Jewish DNA sequence in non-priestly Jews.

[cerulean]

As Jews we know instinctively that "God" is within us and "God" is us. We are God and God is Me. God is not to be found on the streets or in a book, it is to be found within the Self. I am Jew: I am God. Jesus and Mohammed did not understand this. They saw their individuality as the path to God-realisation but they can never reach God. Why? Because their existance is based entirely on the hatred of the Jew. Islam believes that for Islam to be great, the Jew must die. This was the same ideology behind Hitler's Holocaust. That ideology in itself evolved from Christian countries, which evolved from... Jesus. The two stumbling blocks to world peace are Jesus and Mohammed.

People thinking they are gods is somewhat problematic I think. I am not sure I fully understand your philosophy in this respect. Of course there are major theological problems from a traditional standpoint, but from the practical point of view, numerous problems would arise if people thought they were gods and acted as such.

I'm not sure I'd say Jesus and Muhammed are the main stumbling blocks to world peace. They're long gone. It's what their followers are saying about them that has been and currently is problematic.

[klc]

I have seen statistical evidence that all Cohen's are related and there is a DNA strain that's is a marker of full-blood Jews and people born to Jewish mothers; unfortunately I do not have the links available (on my other PC and I deleted system32.. oops!)

I remember seeing something on National Geographic a few months back, about a tribe of black African Ethiopeans who claimed to be Jewish. When they had their DNA tested and compared to Cohen's DNA, which is about as pure as you can get, the same marker that can identify Jews even after dilution was found.

Common traits are found within DNA between everyone, of course, but there is one particular strand that defines a "Jew".

People are unwilling to admit to that for fear of 'branding' the Jews as a race of people and thus being forced to admit atrocitues up to and including genocide were commited on them. How many people refute the idea that the Holocaust even happened? How many people would wish to deny the Jews Israel because they claim Jews are not a race but instead a religious sect?

We are all Jewish and as such must enact our right to a secure and free homeland.

The world must listen.

Shalom

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by klc
As Jews we know instinctively that "God" is within us and "God" is us. We are God and God is Me. God is not to be found on the streets or in a book, it is to be found within the Self. I am Jew: I am God.

I didn't see this until now.

As an Orthodox religiously educated Jew, I find your words above repugnant, if taken at face value.

Either clarify what you meant or quote some legitimate references.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by klc
I have seen statistical evidence that all Cohen's are related

Fine. I even brought a link (one of many) as a sample reference.

and there is a DNA strain that's is a marker of full-blood Jews and people born to Jewish mothers; unfortunately I do not have the links available (on my other PC and I deleted system32.. oops!)[/B]

Why don't you search for it on the WEB and post the links back here.

[christian]

Originally posted by muslim4israel2
One day we will unite like in the past, a field a force of 400 million warriors to crush you like we should have those centuries ago. Our weakness coincided with our disunity and that is a matter of time before we scale up our Arabian Peninsula lands to swallow an illegitimate state of wall dwellers.

The age of Christendom ended in 1453, post that it was nationalistic empires in the west. France fought many christian armies, as did UK, ect. The days of a united Christen empire were gloriously ended by Sultan Mehmet al Fatih, in 1453.

The world shall come under our rule again.

MUSLIM 4 Israel

This shows how the average muslim think.
How the f*** you call your relgion is a peace religion? When you are starting a conquest?

[christian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by klc
muslim4israel2

Racism has been pinned on you, you just don't want to admit it. Racism is prejudice - prejudice of believing that a particular person, due to his birth, is wrong. If someone was born a certain way - Jewish, for example - then believing that the individual is wrong for [b]being Jewish, that is racism. That is what you and 99% of all muslims believe (christians too)

What's this

ok, whatever. I take it you're in the UK, let's meet up homeboy and show each other who's boss.. I don't fancy your chances hickery bub, Asians like yourself are of a slight frame and of slight mind. You can't even spell properly! Contrast that to someone like me - a 6'2, 16-stone intellectual Jew. Put simply, your verbal and physical dexterity can only falter under self-induced morbousity; you have neither the intelligence nor desire to promulgate; your arguments are entirely false; you're a denigrator. I would destroy you and Mohammed in a blink of an eye but I believe you have a right to exist.

Please don't refer to all the asians. Many japanese , chinese and korea are secular pro-christian.
Especially, south korea is a secular pro-christian state .

[christian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by klc
I have seen statistical evidence that all Cohen's are related and there is a DNA strain that's is a marker of full-blood Jews and people born to Jewish mothers; unfortunately I do not have the links available (on my other PC and I deleted system32.. oops!)

I remember seeing something on National Geographic a few months back, about a tribe of black African Ethiopeans who claimed to be Jewish. When they had their DNA tested and compared to Cohen's DNA, which is about as pure as you can get, the same marker that can identify Jews even after dilution was found.

Common traits are found within DNA between everyone, of course, but there is one particular strand that defines a "Jew".

People are unwilling to admit to that for fear of 'branding' the Jews as a race of people and thus being forced to admit atrocitues up to and including genocide were commited on them. How many people refute the idea that the Holocaust even happened? How many people would wish to deny the Jews Israel because they claim Jews are not a race but instead a religious sect?

We are all Jewish and as such must enact our right to a secure and free homeland.




[B]Yes. I admit the Jewish people is the smartest race in the world.
That is why people want to kill them, because of jeolousy.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by christian
I admit the Jewish people is the smartest race in the world.


As one of the targets of your kindly intended remarks, I have to tell you that I resent what you're saying.

There are hundreds of millions of intelligent people in the world of all shapes and sizes. I know of no monopoly of intelligence by Jews nor have I ever seen the scores of a world-wide IQ test that proves your point.

[christian]

I can write you all the names of jews who change the course of history in this world. They are the leaders. They shape the idea of modern world today.

look at this link. This is no BS.

http://www.yahoodi.com/famous/famstart.html

[Oh Jerusalem]

Karl Marx was a Jew and I was highly unimpressed about the fact.

Come to think of it, the same can be said for Shimon Peres. :p

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by cerulean


People thinking they are gods is somewhat problematic I think. I am not sure I fully understand your philosophy in this respect. Of course there are major theological problems from a traditional standpoint, but from the practical point of view, numerous problems would arise if people thought they were gods and acted as such.

I'm not sure I'd say Jesus and Muhammed are the main stumbling blocks to world peace. They're long gone. It's what their followers are saying about them that has been and currently is problematic.

Here comes my ignorance. It has always been my understanding that Jesus has just returned home. I mean wasn’t he supposed to have been alive when he descended into the heavens. Catholics as I understand it sort of interchanges g-d with Jesus so in a way they are one and the same.

As far as Mohammed goes can you really say anyone is gone if their legacy still remains? I would certainly say that the two would most likely be remembered until the end.

As far as everyone being g-ds all I can say is to each his own. So if anyone wants to believe that Jews are all g-ds it doesn’t bother me.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem


I didn't see this until now.



As an Orthodox religiously educated Jew, I find your words above repugnant, if taken at face value.

Either clarify what you meant or quote some legitimate references.

I have to agree with you, I do not support KLC's statement. From a personal standpoint I don't care what you believe, we are all equal, no person is better than another based upon religion only.

[L@mplighterM]

Yes. I admit the Jewish people is the smartest race in the world.
That is why people want to kill them, because of jeolousy.

Everything is relative and what does being smart mean?

Being smart sometimes doesn’t have a lasting effect.

Take for example the emergence of super bugs.

I think one could argue that the discovery of penicillin has benefited humanity perhaps more than anything else.

So one could certainly say that the discoverer was smart. Now humanity is facing a tremendous threat from bacteria that are anti-biotic resistant.

How will that play out? Who knows? It might turn out to be the worst discovery that man has ever made. At the time the discoverer was smart but what if it ends up costing more human lives in the end?

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem


Just curious. Are you Jewish (I assume yes by the name)? Orthodox?

Yep, I am MOT. I fell off of the derech a long time ago and haven't quite made it back. So I would not qualify myself as Orthodox- kind of somewhere betweeen Conservative and Frumland really.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
I think one could argue that the discovery of penicillin has benefited humanity perhaps more than anything else.

Penicillin was discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming but its implementation as a drug was the discovery of Howard Florey and Ernst Chain, the latter being Jewish refugee who fled Nazi Germany.

Well, one outta 3 ain't bad. :p

No points intended to be proven.

[klc]

If you look at world history, proportion-wise (ie number of Jews versus native population), Jews have advanced the modern world more than any other race of people.

Earlier, my mistake, I meant Muslims, not Asians. Apologies all round.

To clarify:

As Jews we know instinctively that "God" is within us and "God" is us. We are God and God is Me. God is not to be found on the streets or in a book, it is to be found within the Self. I am Jew: I am God.

Human consciousness, by its very definition, must have been divinely created and thus can only be divine in nature. Conscious awareness means that an individual, aware of his being, knows that he is seperate from himself and must therefore be creator in order for himself to exist.

On further reflection, one must contemplate the meaning of existance to come to an answer. If one is aware that he is he - I am I and not you - then that individual individuality, individual existance, can only be the gift of God - the creator of all. If one sees existance in terms of the human condition (feelings, thoughts, emotions), that is the gift of God, the gift to be able to experience and evolve. Knowing that one exists entirely within the framework of oneself, one cannot grow. There must be additional input to ones life in order for one's life to evolve. That input is to be found in God, the creator of all existance. But where is God to be found? Is God found in the heavens? no, a big empty vacuum and lots of stars live there. Is God found in a book? no, the book was written by humans and therefore carries human mistakes. God, by deduction, can only be found within oneself. That is not to say that one individual has the power of God (create the whole universe), but one can have the power of HUMAN Gods. God, as Humans know it, is a creation of the Human mind. So where does that inspirational idea that God exists come from? God. God, inside yourself. God is within you, but God is also external. God externally created the world and internally created you. God is Human, Human is God. Jews, knowledgable of this fact, automatically assume that God is within themselves and simultaneously outside. The two major religions in this conflict - Christianity and Islam - fail in "reaching" God, because the followers worship Jesus and Mohammed - fallable humans. That is where the mistake lies. To know God, one must have a firm belief in the internal and external creation of life, know that God is everything that ever was and ever is, and know that God is within you at all times.

If I know I exist, what gives me the knowledge to know that I am I? Do I give myself that knowledge? On the surface level, yes. But what gives me the knowledge to know that I am I? "God", "Being", "Allah", whatever. The Creator creates all knowledge.

Human Being is God unto himself, and as such can create whatever he desires in Human form. That is the gift of God, the ability to realise oneself fully.

[L@mplighterM]

There must be additional input to ones life in order for one's life to evolve. That input is to be found in God, the creator of all existance. But where is God to be found? Is God found in the heavens? no, a big empty vacuum and lots of stars live there. Is God found in a book? no, the book was written by humans and therefore carries human mistakes. God, by deduction, can only be found within oneself. That is not to say that one individual has the power of God (create the whole universe), but one can have the power of HUMAN Gods. God, as Humans know it, is a creation of the Human mind.

That doesn’t sound too different from “Free Will” are you then saying that this common denominator binds Christianity and Judaism together? Although both religions in my opinion share the concept of fatalism I would argue that the two (free will and fatalism) are diametrically opposite.

On the other hand I believe that “Fatalism” is further entrenched in Islam and Buddhism.

If you give the concept that G_d is a creation of the human mind I believe that you’ll find that it’s not the case. Without further elaboration I’ll just say that it’s a quest that you’ll have to make yourself.

[L@mplighterM]

Penicillin was discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming but its implementation as a drug was the discovery of Howard Florey and Ernst Chain, the latter being Jewish refugee who fled Nazi Germany.

Well, one outta 3 ain't bad.

No points intended to be proven.


Wish I had all the answers and names at my fingertips.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
How about taking this religious discussion to the Religion section?

I was going to suggest that myself. Thanks!

[klc]

...If you give the concept that G_d is a creation of the human mind I believe that you’ll find that it’s not the case. Without further elaboration I’ll just say that it’s a quest that you’ll have to make yourself. [/B]

I've updated the post, I think you'll find the last 2 paragraphs complete the theory nicely!

[klc]

I'm not happy with that conclusion though.

I'm going to prove to you in incredibly simple terms that Man created God and Man is God.

This is pure science and religion crossover

(Get ready with the algebra..)



"Self" is Human Beings, individual people, persons with souls

"God" is God/Creator/Being

"Reality" is the world around us; existance, creation, life itself.

"Self" = a

"God" = b

"Reality" = c


I propose that a = b + c

Self = God + Reality

That the Self is the creator of God, the Universe and Everything

Using my equation, Reality can be expressed as:

c = a - b

Reality = Self - God

That means if, as most of the West believes, there is no God, then removing God from the equation means:

c = a

Reality = Self

hence Man is God.

Not so, I hear you say. That leads to the next logical conclusion that God is REAL and is the creator of all:

b = a - c

God = Self - Reality

Which means God (b) is Man - Reality (a - c), but Reality is the creation of God anyway, so God = Man - God (b = a - b) which one can only conclude that God = Man:

b = a

Not so again, you say! God is not man! So who is man? Man is man.

Self = God + Reality

a = b + c

so Man is Man or Self is Self:

a = a

If a = a
then Self = Self

and

If a = b + c
then Self = God + Reality

so

a = a(a + b + c)

or Human = Human x Human

That is to say, Human gives life to Human; Human creates life; Human is God, Human is Creator, Human is the Universe, Human is supreme being.[/quote]

Compare that to the present day conflict,

a = Israel
b = Solution
c = Peace

Everyone wants a Solution (b) to this conflict:

b = a - c

Which means that the Solution (b) has to happen before Peace (c). That clearly isn't going to happen, what with neither side willing to compromise. The compromise is Israel's very land, the full right of Israel to exist; Israel in its entirety secure in itself with no outside threat from anyone - Israel (a)

So we want Peace.

c = a - b

Which means for Peace (c) to ensue, Israel (a) must go without a solution (b); as I said, c = a - b. That cannot happen. There must be a solution to this crisis immediatly.

So what option is left? Israel must exist. Israel (a) wants a Solution (b) in order to achieve Peace (c). a = b + c.

So where does the solution come from? America (d) or UK (e) or France (f) or Germany (g) or Holland (h) or Italy (i)??? Too many countries that aren't directly involved. The only solution can come from Israel (a):

a = b

a = c

Israel = Solution

Israel = Peace

So does Israel know the solution? Of course it does.

a = (a + b + c)

or

a = (a + b + c)

Israel (a) is the creator of Israel (a), the creator of the Solution (b) and the creator of Peace (c); Israel = Israel; Israel must and can only exist.

It's logical, ethical and mathematically correct.

Israel has the right to exist! It already does - us Jews wouldn't be here if Israel did not already exist. It exists in our minds and in our hearts, we must work together to make it a reality.

Peace everyone

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by klc
It's logical, ethical and mathematically correct.

Unless your initial proposition, Self = God + Reality, is bologna in the first place.

I'll bet you can do wonders with NY Times crossword puzzles.

[L@mplighterM]

I'm outa here.

[klc]

Unless your initial proposition, Self = God + Reality, is bologna in the first place.

I'll bet you can do wonders with NY Times crossword puzzles.

True, but given contemporary definitions of "Man", "God" and "Reality", my theory solves the infinite loop.
______________________________________________

Further to that, if we were to say that Israel can only be defined by who lives there (Jews) and its land (Israel in its entirety), as in

Israel = a
Jews = b
Land = c

Then we can say

a = b + c

Proof:

If the Arab world had its way, Jews would no longer live in Israel. That means

a = c

or

Israel = Land

Which means the scrap of land they're fighting for is no more holy than my back garden.

The other Arab plan is to create West Bank/Gaza as seperate autonomous states. That means letting Islam into Israel:

a = b

or

Israel = Jew

Which means that Israel is only Israel if it is a Jewish state. Therefore,

a = b + c

or

Israel = Jew + Land

Israel as we know it, our homeland, must be complete and free from Islam in order to exist. What has binded us Jews together the past 3,000 years of the Diaspora? The dream of Israel, that one day Israel will exist ("Next year in Jerusalem!"). Israel can only exist if it is free from Islam and is a complete Jewish state secure in its boundaries, free from Islamic threat.

Islam cannot exist in Israel for Israel to exist:

c = a - b

or

Land (Palestine) = Israel - Jew

Palestine means the destruction of Israel as a unified country - Israel minus the Jew. In Israel's place will be Islam in the form of occupied territories. That will constantly threaten Jewish security and give chances time and time again for Islam to destroy Israel. Islam cannot be in Israel. If Israel were not to exist, then Islam and Palestine will:

(b + c) - a

(Jew + Land) - Israel

which means that if Jews can live on the land as well as Muslims, then Israel will no longer exist; it will be a new Islamic/Jewish state (lets call that D). So

(b + c) - a = D

which means that this new cr*p will exist; Israel will no longer exist, and us Jews will still be stuck in the Diaspora WAITING for a homeland.
______________________________________________

While I'm at it, I think I'll prove that Jew = God.

If

Jew = a
Human = b
Israel = c

We said that Human = Human x Human (Theory 1, first theory I made).

Israel = Jew + Land (Theory 2, directly above)

Jew = UNKNOWN. Who are we Jews?

I propose that for a Jew to be complete, he must be both Human and have Israel as his home.

"Human" means alive and not dead;

"Israel" means land complete with Jewish ownership, no Islam controlling parts of Israel.

so once again

a = b + c

Jew = Human + Israel

If death to Jews occured (Jihad and the Muslim world's plan)

then

a = c

or

Jew = Israel

and Muslim's plan will be complete; they will own Israel and the Jew will be no more.

If Israel were to no longer exist, ie, Muslims take control of Palestine (and eventually Israel proper) then

a = b

or

Jew = Human

Jew is alive, is Human, but will not be complete. Jew will not have Israel; it is the trilogy that enables the Jew to exist:

Jew = Human + Israel

a = b + c

or

Jew = Life + Land

and what created both Life and Land?

God. God gave existance to the life of humans and gave existance to the World, the Universe, and the Land we walk on.

Jew = God

Jew = God

a = (a + b + c)

then

a = a (a + b + c)

or

Jew = Jew x Jew

But given that Jew = God, that also means that

God = God x God

thus

a = a (a + b + c)

so

God = God

or

Jew = Jew

so

a = (a + b + c)

and

God = Jew

I thank you

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by klc
True, but given contemporary definitions of "Man", "God" and "Reality", my theory solves the infinite loop.

Life's a dictionary.

Right.

I'm outta here, too!

[klc]

Life's a dictionary.

Right.

I'm outta here, too!

Dictionaries are booka of knowledge; they define words as they've been used up until the moment the dictionary was created.

Let me complete the theory once and for all!

If Jew = God + Reality

then a = b + c

we'll use this as our basis.

If a = b + c

then b = a - c

and c = a - b

so God = Jew - Reality

and Reality = Jew - God

Therefore

c + b = a

and

b + c = a

so

Reality + God = Jew

and

God + Reality = Jew

Therefore

a = b = c

or

Jew = God = Reality

so

a = (a + b + c)

or

Jew = (Jew + God + Reality)

so

a = a

thus

a = (a + b + c)

so

a = a

so

a = a (a + b + c)

=

a - a = (a + b + c)

thus

aa = (a + b + c)

so Jew x Jew = Jew

thus

a = a

and

a = (a + b + c)

so

aa = (a + b + c)

Thus Jew must have existed before Jew did; Jew is the creator of himself, the creator of his God, and the creator of his reality.

Case closed.

[mrbaggins]

You cannot use unlike terms in equations.

Therefore... you are wrong :)

[Annaliese]

In Australia, Norway, Sweden and other Western nations, there is a distinct race-based crime in motion being ignored by the diversity police: Islamic men are raping Western women for ethnic reasons. We know this because the rapists have openly declared their sectarian motivations.

When a number of teenage Australian girls were subjected to hours of sexual degradation during a spate of gang rapes in Sydney that occurred between 1998 and 2002, the perpetrators of these assaults framed their rationale in ethnic terms. The young victims were informed that they were “sluts” and “Aussie pigs” while they were being hunted down and abused.

In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no, because they were not wearing a headscarf.

And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore skimpy clothing, invited men to rape them.

A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid Mehdi created uproar when – like his peer in Australia – he stated that women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.

And with haunting synchronicity in 2004, the London Telegraph reported that visiting Egyptian scholar Sheik Yusaf al-Qaradawi claimed female rape victims should be punished if they were dressed immodestly when they were raped. He added, “For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct.”

In Norway and Sweden, journalist Fjordman warns of a rape epidemic. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen stated that the steady increase of rape-cases and the link to ethnicity are clear, unmistakable trends. Two out of three persecutions for rape in Oslo are immigrants with a non-Western background and 80 percent of the victims are Norwegian women.

In Sweden, according to translator for Jihad Watch, Ali Dashti, “Gang rapes, usually involving Muslim immigrant males and native Swedish girls, have become commonplace.” A few weeks ago she said, “Five Kurds brutally raped a 13-year-old Swedish girl.”

In France, Samira Bellil broke her silence – after enduring years of repeated gang rapes in one of the Muslim populated public housing projects – and wrote a book, In the hell of the tournantes, that shocked France. Describing how gang rape is rampant in the banlieues, she explained to Time that, “any neighborhood girl who smokes, uses makeup or wears attractive clothes is a whore.”

Unfortunately, Western women are not the only victims in this epidemic. In Indonesia, in 1998, human rights groups documented the testimony of over 100 Chinese women who were gang raped during the riots that preceded the fall of President Suharto. Many of them were told: “You must be raped, because you are Chinese and non-Muslim.”

Christian Solidarity Worldwide reported that in April 2005, a 9-year-old Pakistani girl was raped, beaten with a cricket bat, hanged upside down from the ceiling, had spoonfuls of chillies poured into her mouth, and repeatedly bashed while handcuffed. Her Muslim neighbours told her they were taking revenge for the American bombing of Iraqi children and informed her they were doing it because she was an “infidel and a Christian.”

In Sudan – where Arab Muslims slaughter black Muslim and Christian Sudanese in an ongoing genocide – former Sudanese slave and now a human rights’ activist Simon Deng says he witnessed girls and women being raped and that the Arab regime of Khartoum sends its soldiers to the field to rape and murder. In other reports, women who are captured by government forces are asked; “Are you Christian or Muslim?” and those who answer Christian, are gang raped before having their breasts cut off.

This phenomenon of Islamic sexual violence against women should be treated as the urgent, violent, repressive epidemic it is. Instead, journalists, academics, and politicians ignore it, rationalize it, or ostracize those who dare discuss it.

In Australia, when journalist Paul Sheehan reported honestly on the Sydney gang rapes, he was called a racist and accused of stirring up anti-Muslim hatred. And when he reported in his Sydney Morning Herald column that there was a high incidence of crime amongst Sydney’s Lebanese community, fellow journalist, David Marr sent him an e-mail stating, “That is a disgraceful column that reflects poorly on us all at the Herald.”

Keysar Trad, vice-president of the Australian Lebanese Muslim Association said the gang rapes were a “heinous” crime but complained it was “rather unfair” that the ethnicity of the rapists had been reported.

Journalist Miranda Devine reported during the same rape trials that all reference to ethnicity had been deleted from the victim impact statement because the prosecutors wanted to negotiate a plea bargain.

So when Judge Megan Latham declared, “There is no evidence before me of any racial element in the commission of these offences,” everyone believed her. And the court, the politicians and most of the press may as well have raped the girls again.

<paragraphs cut to keep within word limit>

In France, in the banlieues, where gang rape is now known simply as tournantes or ‘pass-around,’ victims know the police will not protect them. If they complain, Samir Bellil said, they know that they and their families will be threatened.

However, Muslim women in the French ghettos are finally fighting back against gang rape and police non-action. They have begun a movement called, “We’re neither whores nor doormats.” They are struggling against the intrinsic violence that plagues their neighbourhoods and the culture that condones it.

In most French prosecutions, the Muslim rapists state that they do not believe they have committed a crime. And in a frightening parallel with the gang rapists in Australia, they claim the victim herself is to blame and accuse her of being a “slut” or a “whore.”

According to The Guardian, during the recent French riots, a Saudi Prince with shares in News Corporation boasted to a conference in Dubai that he had phoned Rupert Murdoch and complained about Fox News describing the disturbances as “Muslim riots.” Within half an hour he said, it was changed to “civil riots.”

Swedish translator, Ali Dashti, stated that in Sweden when three men raped a 22-year-old woman recently, they said one word to her. “Whore.” Such stories, according to Dashti, are in the Swedish newspapers every week. And, the politically correct “take great care not to mention the ethnic background of the perpetrators.”

Sweden’s English newspaper The Local reported in July that Malmo police commander Bengt Lindström had been charged with inciting racial hatred. He sent e-mails from his home computer to two city officials. To the head of healthcare, he wrote: “You...treat old Swedes who have worked hard building up the fatherland like parasites and would rather give my taxes to criminals called Mohammed from Rosengärd.”

In Malmo, the third largest city in Sweden, the police have admitted, Dashti says, that they no longer control the city. “It is effectively ruled by violent gangs of Muslim immigrants.” Ambulance personnel are regularly attacked and spat upon and are now refusing to help until a police escort arrives. The police are too afraid to enter parts of the city without backup.

In early 2005, Norwegian newspapers reported that Oslo had recorded the highest ever number of rape cases in the previous twelve months. However, Fjordman explained, the official statistics contained no data regarding “how immigrants were grossly over represented in rape cases”, and the media remain so strangely silent.

Oslo Professor of Anthropology, Unni Wikan, said Norwegian women must take responsibility for the fact that Muslim men find their manner of dress provocative. And since these men believe women are responsible for rape, she stated, the women must adapt to the multicultural society around them.

The BBC pulled a documentary scheduled for screening in 2004, after police in Britain warned it could increase racial tension. “In these exceptional circumstances... Channel 4 as a responsible broadcaster has agreed to the police’s request...” The documentary was to show how Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abused young, white English girls as young as 11.

The number of rapes committed by Muslim men against women in the last decade is so incredibly high that it cannot be viewed as anything other than culturally implicit behaviour. It is overtly reinforced and sanctioned by Islamic religious leaders who blame the victims and excuse the rapists.

In three decades of immigration into Western countries, Islam has caused social upheaval and havoc in every one of its host countries. No other immigration program has encountered the problems of non-assimilation and religious ambiguity.

Everywhere in the world, Muslims are in conflict with their neighbours. And as Mark Steyn recently said, every conflict appears to have originated by someone with the name Mohammed.

<paragraphs cut to keep within word limit>

The complete article is here: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20646

[Ossian]

"The BBC pulled a documentary scheduled for screening in 2004, after police in Britain warned it could increase racial tension. “In these exceptional circumstances... Channel 4 as a responsible broadcaster has agreed to the police’s request...” The documentary was to show how Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abused young, white English girls as young as 11."

That is true but i don't think it presents the whole picture. It was pulled because there had only recently been race riots and mass street fights between Asian and White youths in the areas featured in the documentary. Also, i think it was wrong to ban it because it gave the B.N.P publicity who then used the banned documentary in their campaign ads. Like "The truth they don't want you to know" or summink. :rolleyes:

[Cato]

"The BBC pulled a documentary scheduled for screening in 2004, after police in Britain warned it could increase racial tension. “In these exceptional circumstances... Channel 4 as a responsible broadcaster has agreed to the police’s request...” The documentary was to show how Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abused young, white English girls as young as 11."

That is true but i don't think it presents the whole picture. It was pulled because there had only recently been race riots and mass street fights between Asian and White youths in the areas featured in the documentary. Also, i think it was wrong to ban it because it gave the B.N.P publicity who then used the banned documentary in their campaign ads. Like "The truth they don't want you to know" or summink. :rolleyes:

So Britainia has abandoned the we can deal with anything spirit of Winstin Churchil for a cowardly hear nothing we don't want to know and hope it doesn't hurt us too much.

[rhodescholar]

Dont worry or fret too much people, the mass expulsions are just around the corner.

A few more riots and suicide bombings in major euro cities, and the incrementalism of mass deportations will start to get more mainstream discussion. A few more attacks after that - which are, of course, completely inevitable - and the party will begin.

[Ossian]

So Britainia has abandoned the we can deal with anything spirit of Winstin Churchil for a cowardly hear nothing we don't want to know and hope it doesn't hurt us too much.


I don't think so...as the original post said, it was the police who advised the that documentary be shelved. I trust them to make that judgement as it is the police who had to try and stop white and Asian youths from killing each other. What was the alternative?

[Annaliese]

Dont worry or fret too much people, the mass expulsions are just around the corner.

A few more riots and suicide bombings in major euro cities, and the incrementalism of mass deportations will start to get more mainstream discussion. A few more attacks after that - which are, of course, completely inevitable - and the party will begin.

Agreed.


For those posters concentrating on the British pulling the documentary as opposed to its substance, here's a little excerpt concerning the lovely home of Neville Chamberlain:

Just for starters, the memorandum proves the falsity of the common perception that the creation of Israel was a project of Western colonialism. The Nation shows that during the half year prior to the all-out Arab invasion on May 15, when Britain was responsible for security in its Palestine Mandate territory, it incited, micro-managed and did public relations work for a campaign of Arab troop infiltration and terror.

The intelligence documents cited below show that before the Arab invasion, British intelligence knew that the Arabs terrorizing the future Israel were being led in part by Nazi advisers. These included Bosnian Muslims from the infamous Handzar Division of the Waffen SS. According to a French intelligence document published by The Nation seven months later, the British sent thousands of Nazi prisoners of war, including top war criminals, to assist the Arab attack. This was after the Arab invasion. [1]

Consistent with British tolerance for and apparent employment of Nazi war criminals against new-born Israel, the Nation memorandum shows that the British adopted a propaganda line reminiscent of the Nazis' "Jewish-Bolshevik plot" motif. The British accused Jewish Holocaust survivors trying to get to Palestine of being Soviet Communist infiltrators. A 1948 article in the London Times shows that Arab leaders were saying the same thing:

[Text of London Times article starts here. To view scanned image of article, go to http://emperor.vwh.net/history/ltmay748.htm]


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=5601

[Ossian]

Agreed.


1.For those posters concentrating on the British pulling the documentary as opposed to its substance, here's a little excerpt concerning the lovely home of Neville Chamberlain:

2.Just for starters, the memorandum proves the falsity of the common perception that the creation of Israel was a project of Western colonialism. The Nation shows that during the half year prior to the all-out Arab invasion on May 15, when Britain was responsible for security in its Palestine Mandate territory, it incited, micro-managed and did public relations work for a campaign of Arab troop infiltration and terror.

The intelligence documents cited below show that before the Arab invasion, British intelligence knew that the Arabs terrorizing the future Israel were being led in part by Nazi advisers. These included Bosnian Muslims from the infamous Handzar Division of the Waffen SS. According to a French intelligence document published by The Nation seven months later, the British sent thousands of Nazi prisoners of war, including top war criminals, to assist the Arab attack. This was after the Arab invasion. [1]

Consistent with British tolerance for and apparent employment of Nazi war criminals against new-born Israel, the Nation memorandum shows that the British adopted a propaganda line reminiscent of the Nazis' "Jewish-Bolshevik plot" motif. The British accused Jewish Holocaust survivors trying to get to Palestine of being Soviet Communist infiltrators. A 1948 article in the London Times shows that Arab leaders were saying the same thing:

[Text of London Times article starts here. To view scanned image of article, go to http://emperor.vwh.net/history/ltmay748.htm]


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=5601

1. I think you mean me? I'm commenting on the British pulling the documentary because i'm British. As for the content...what do you want me to say? That paedophilia and rape are wrong? I kind of took it for granted that we all knew that.

2. What has this to do with Britain and its race relations in the 21st century? Britain and America are both guilty of paranoia regarding Communism at the start, and all throughout, the cold war. Mr Winston Churchill who is often quoted on this forum and in this thread as an outstanding example of Britishness said the same thing regarding Bolsheveiks did'nt he? :rolleyes: I'd say it seems your info is unsubstantiated and seems to be mostly anti-British propaganda. I will also keep an eye out for the next time someone uses info from The Times ot London Times to prove Britain is anti semitic. ;)

N.B. It is a lovely home, Neville Chamberlain not-withstanding. :)

[Annaliese]

Ossian,

1. Honestly, I didn't even notice you are British. It seemed a couple of posters had taken the thread as one about censorship rather than its title. Yep, we all know that sorta stuff is wrong...........however, I find it most unsettling when the 'politically correct' refuse to acknowledge it..........almost more galling to me is how much of the women's movement will overlook atrocities against us as long as they take place in certain 'politically correct' countries/cultures.

2. Rashomon: I didn't mean anything anti-British and I am sadly aware that America is certainly also guilty of paranoia regarding communism. All I intended when I ran across the original article was to post some more of the heinous acts perpetrated in the name of Islam and I ended up posting something else which I suppose I shouldn't have which was actually posted because of something another member wrote, i.e. "So Britainia has abandoned the we can deal with anything spirit of Winstin Churchill for a cowardly hear nothing we don't want to know and hope it doesn't hurt us too much." Apologies to all!

That Britain looks to be a lovely home goes without saying. ;)

[Ossian]

I apologise for being touchy. I wanted to make the point that the dreaded 'Its Political correctness Gone Wrong' mantra does'nt in my view, apply in this case. When we look into the reasoning behind such moves like the banning of the documentary in the U.K, we can see that it is a purely commonsense decision made to keep an already poisonous atmosphere of hate from both sides spilling over yet again into violence, which helps no one.

What interests me is that the B.N.P. raised a great stink about the, albeit serious, issues raised in this documentary. What a lot of people may not be aware of is that much of the B.N.P hierachy who claimed 'righteous indignation' have themselves been imprisoned for rape and sexual battery. This documentary was in danger of being used, not as a method of highlighting dangers to young girls in the North of England (so that something could be done about it), but rather as a tool for racism and an extreme right wing agenda.

To be honest i dont understand the reasoning behind the thread in general. Of course some rapists and peodphiles are Muslim men. There is no reason for these to be excluded from general censure. But this seems to me to label Islam as a whole for this, rather than the men themselves.

[Annaliese]

To be honest i dont understand the reasoning behind the thread in general. Of course some rapists and peodphiles are Muslim men. There is no reason for these to be excluded from general censure. But this seems to me to label Islam as a whole for this, rather than the men themselves.

If you don't understand the reasoning behind the thread in general, you needn't have responded to it. (my turn to be 'touchy' :D )

Islam does have a problem with the way it views and treats women: surely, you know that.

Here's a couple of old articles, so I guess I am blaming Islam (ducking and running now...........):

http://www.muslimtents.com/sistersinislam/PressStatements/06042000.htm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5676

and, from Simon of IF: http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=2822

[Leon]

Dont worry or fret too much people, the mass expulsions are just around the corner.

A few more riots and suicide bombings in major euro cities, and the incrementalism of mass deportations will start to get more mainstream discussion. A few more attacks after that - which are, of course, completely inevitable - and the party will begin.

Aint never going to happen. The West (especially Eurabia) is scared of muslims and offending the Islamic world.

[Ossian]

1.If you don't understand the reasoning behind the thread in general, you needn't have responded to it. (my turn to be 'touchy' :D )

2. Islam does have a problem with the way it views and treats women: surely, you know that.

Here's a couple of old articles, so I guess I am blaming Islam (ducking and running now...........):

http://www.muslimtents.com/sistersinislam/PressStatements/06042000.htm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5676

and, from Simon of IF: http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=2822

1.. Yup i'm having a very boring Christmas holiday i guess!

2. I find it hard to blame a religion for these wicked things. They are part of very old ingrained cultural thinking. I know plenty of muslims who decry them as basically that. Of course misogyny is present in the Quran, but it is also present in the bible. I don't see the need to blame Christianity any time some Brit wants to use his wife as a punch bag. Thats my two pennorth. i won't hijack your thread. :)

[Rune]

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html)

Rape: Nothing to do with Islam? (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-nothing-to-do-with-islam.html)

The Norwegian Government - Covering Up Immigrant Rapes (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/07/norwegian-government-covering-up.html)

[Annaliese]

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway - Authorities Look the Other Way (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html)

Rape: Nothing to do with Islam? (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-nothing-to-do-with-islam.html)

The Norwegian Government - Covering Up Immigrant Rapes (http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/07/norwegian-government-covering-up.html)

Thank you, Rune!

From the second link: "...I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today..."

[Ossian]

Thank you, Rune!

From the second link: "...I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today..."


"IF YOU POSTULATE" - Interesting choice of words for such a serious issue. What if we do not 'postulate' and concern ourselves with established facts?

[Annaliese]

"IF YOU POSTULATE" - Interesting choice of words for such a serious issue. What if we do not 'postulate' and concern ourselves with established facts?


1. Please continue posting here. I don't consider this ... or any ... "my" thread(s)! I appreciate reading (almost) everyone here and that certainly includes you, Ossian.

2. Have you ever read through, not just scanned, the following site? ... just curious ...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/default.htm#attacks

[Muslima]

Thank you, Rune!

From the second link: "...I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today..."

You, named Annaliese,

You lie and distort shamelessly. Neither Islam nor the QUran allow forced sex you distorter of the truth. How dare you make up such fairy stories. I can post verses from the Quran telling believers not to force even their slave and concubines into sex. Rape is a crime punishable by death in Islam. In fact Islam is the only religion, in which slaves are given clear rights. The Quran and Sunnah make clear the obligations that people have to their slaves if they have any.

How dare you slander the Prophet like this. State your sources. Where did the Prophet force concubines and slaves into sex? References, and sources please.......His life is very well documented even by Western historians, and none have made these riduculous accusations.

Can you show me where you got this info from, and also what verses from the Quran, and the SUnna allow Muslim men to force women into sex.

[Muslima]

Aint never going to happen. The West (especially Eurabia) is scared of muslims and offending the Islamic world.

Stop exaggerating and lying. Europe has good relations with the Muslim world, that's the reason, and not because it's scared of Muslim's or offending the Muslim world.

Those who say, that Europe is scared of Muslim's or offending the Musllim worlld are either deluded, or plain jealous.

[Annaliese]

You, named Annaliese,

You lie and distort shamelessly. Neither Islam nor the QUran allow forced sex you dolt. How dare you make up such fairy stories. I can post verses from the Quran telling believers not to force slaves into sex. Rape is a crime punishable by death in Islam.

Can you show me where you got this info from, and also what verses from the Quran, and the SUnna allow Muslim men to force women into sex.

Name-calling isn't helpful, in my opinion. If you don't like all the links which were provided, comment on them ... there are plenty more where they came from. Also, referring to Leon as jealous is patently absurd.

[Muslima]

Name-calling isn't helpful, in my opinion. If you don't like all the links which were provided, comment on them ... there are plenty more where they came from. Also, referring to Leon as jealous is patently absurd.

Can you answer my questions please.

Comment on the links you say? Did you read my message? I said Islam doesn't allow rape. I'm sure you know that, very well, but choose to ignore it.

As well as answering my other questions, can you show me how you tally Islam allows rape with your links.

I don't have to prove anything here, you are the ones making the stupid accusatiions. Even the police in Norway aren't blaming Islam. It's people like you, desperate to smear, so desperate that you grasp at straws and make a laughing stock of yourself..

Answer my questions please

[Annaliese]

Can you answer my questions please.

Comment on the links you say? Did you read my message? I said Islam doesn't allow rape. I'm sure you know that, very well, but choose to ignore it.

As well as answering my other questions, can you show me how you tally Islam allows rape with your links.

I don't have to prove anything here, you are the ones making the stupid accusatiions. Even the police in Norway aren't blaming Islam. It's people like you, desperate to smear, so desperate that you grasp at straws and make a laughing stock of yourself..

Answer my questions please


I am sorry you don't care to read any of the cited articles or http://www.thereligionofpeace.com: 'shooting the messenger' is apparently your game. So, have a look at this thread entitled "Justification for rape in the Koran" ... http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=2822

[Muslima]

I am sorry you don't care to read any of the cited articles or http://www.thereligionofpeace.com: 'shooting the messenger' is apparently your game. So, have a look at this thread entitled "Justification for rape in the Koran" ... http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=2822

The Religion of peace.com website has a clear agenda to distort Islam. Even a fool can see that.

As for the thread , that you posted, there is nothing in it that says Islam allows forced sex.

Can you show me exactly where it says, men can force women to have sex. You keep posting links which are irrelevant to Islam, and nothing that is pertinent to your accusation.

I'm still waiting.............

[Achihud]

Annaliese, the 5 stars are from me. Although I must warn you. There is an odd thing going on, everywhere I put my posts 5-star threads dare to lose two or more of them. Last night/today it happened again. So I see this as part of an investigation. ;)

Besides that, you may take this as a compliment.

[Annaliese]

The Religion of peace.com website has a clear agenda to distort Islam. Even a fool can see that.

As for the thread , that you posted, there is nothing in it that says Islam allows forced sex.

Can you show me exactly where it says, men can force women to have sex. You keep posting links which are irrelevant to Islam, and nothing that is pertinent to your accusation.

I'm still waiting.............

The first entry of the thread references the Koran:

Chapter 33 verse 50 of the Koran:
"O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage a privilege for thee only, not for the [rest of] believers. We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hand possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Thus, the Prophet is given sexual access to first cousins, captives, and any believing woman whom he desires to wed. In fact, he is given certain liberties denied to all others. Allah is here not only forgiving but also quite liberal, at least on the behalf of his Prophet. The term "whom your right hand possesses" refers to women captured in battle. Captive women were considered legitimate trophies of war and in fact the Prophet marries a Jewess whose husband has been slain. Although we can construe this practice to be "pro-sexuality," it is hard to imagine how this paleolithic approach to romance serves the interests of feminism.

..rules in Chapter 24 of the Koran are revealed in response to an alleged tryst between Aishah, Muhammad's child bride and a young soldier. Afraid of losing his prized pubescent amour, the Prophet was comforted when God revealed to him that she could not be convicted without four eyewitnesses. As the supposed "roll in the sand" between Aishah and her young soldier took place in the wastelands of Arabia, there was little chance of her accusers meeting these high standards of evidence.

(Inserted by Simon: The above is an example of how conveniently allah reveals himself to mohammad.

Note also the requirement for four [b]eyewitnessses to a rape essentially also condones rape in that it renders it practically impossible to prove it. )

[Annaliese]

Annaliese, the 5 stars are from me. Although I must warn you. There is an odd thing going on, everywhere I put my posts 5-star threads dare to lose two or more of them. Last night/today it happened again. So I see this as part of an investigation. ;)

Besides that, you may take this as a compliment.

I'm not certain if you are being serious, so I will simply compliment your signature. ;)

[Muslima]

The first entry of the thread references the Koran:

Chapter 33 verse 50 of the Koran:
"O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage a privilege for thee only, not for the [rest of] believers. We are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hand possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Thus, the Prophet is given sexual access to first cousins, captives, and any believing woman whom he desires to wed. In fact, he is given certain liberties denied to all others. Allah is here not only forgiving but also quite liberal, at least on the behalf of his Prophet. The term "whom your right hand possesses" refers to women captured in battle. Captive women were considered legitimate trophies of war and in fact the Prophet marries a Jewess whose husband has been slain. Although we can construe this practice to be "pro-sexuality," it is hard to imagine how this paleolithic approach to romance serves the interests of feminism.

..rules in Chapter 24 of the Koran are revealed in response to an alleged tryst between Aishah, Muhammad's child bride and a young soldier. Afraid of losing his prized pubescent amour, the Prophet was comforted when God revealed to him that she could not be convicted without four eyewitnesses. As the supposed "roll in the sand" between Aishah and her young soldier took place in the wastelands of Arabia, there was little chance of her accusers meeting these high standards of evidence.

(Inserted by Simon: The above is an example of how conveniently allah reveals himself to mohammad.

Note also the requirement for four [b]eyewitnessses to a rape essentially also condones rape in that it renders it practically impossible to prove it. )

And i ask you again, where are verses in which the Prophet condones rape, where in the QUran or Sunnah. What do these verses have to do with the Norway rapes? Why havn't the Norwegian authorities blamed Islam? Why are you avoiding the issue? why do you not back up your nonsense with facts?


The verses above have nothing to do with what you said. There is no sexual hypocricy in Islam. This wasn't what you said originally. You said Islam allows rape.

The Prophet and Islam allows men to have multiple wives, (no different to men in the WEst having mistresses, except that Islam isn't hypocritical about it, and gives women rights, unlike in the West, where you have undignified paternity battles in court) and in days gone by, they could have slaves and concubines. If youre seriously interested in learning about the reasons for this i can show you. But i get the feeling you;'re not interested in that, but rather you're searching for material to distort and lie.

I'm going out now, and will deal with you when i get back.......in the meantime reveal more of your bigoted, hatemongering sources...........

[CLL1709]

Thank you, Rune!

From the second link: "...I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today..."

My suggestion to Western women for protection against these Muslims is a Glock semi-automatic. It will take down 17 at a clip.

[ygalg1]

My suggestion to Western women for protection against these Muslims is a Glock semi-automatic. It will take down 17 at a clip.
It does not matter if it happens to be a Muslim or anybody else, rapers have no place in this world

[Annaliese]

And i ask you again, where are verses in which the Prophet condones rape, where in the QUran or Sunnah. What do these verses have to do with the Norway rapes? Why havn't the Norwegian authorities blamed Islam? Why are you avoiding the issue? why do you not back up your nonsense with facts?


The verses above have nothing to do with what you said. There is no sexual hypocricy in Islam. This wasn't what you said originally. You said Islam allows rape.

The Prophet and Islam allows men to have multiple wives, (no different to men in the WEst having mistresses, except that Islam isn't hypocritical about it, and gives women rights, unlike in the West, where you have undignified paternity battles in court) and in days gone by, they could have slaves and concubines. If youre seriously interested in learning about the reasons for this i can show you. But i get the feeling you;'re not interested in that, but rather you're searching for material to distort and lie.

I'm going out now, and will deal with you when i get back.......in the meantime reveal more of your bigoted, hatemongering sources...........

The article I started this thread with deals with a virtual laundry list of muslims raping in various countries, yet you bring up Norway. Perhaps their current boycott of Israeli goods has something to do with their government turning a blind eye to the rapes.

To quote from the original post, "Everywhere in the world, Muslims are in conflict with their neighbours. And as Mark Steyn recently said, every conflict appears to have originated by someone with the name Mohammed."

You believe that multiple wives is equivalent to having a mistress or cheating in marriage? :rolleyes:

Well, "my" bigoted, hatemongering sources would be complimented, if they cared one way or the other, that someone like you referred to them in that manner.

By the way, I NEVER said Islam allows rape. When you get yourself all upset, perhaps you have hallucinations. I hope you get better in 2006, speaking of which, it is time for me to get ready and go party! ;)

[ShimonG]

And i ask you again, where are verses in which the Prophet condones rape, where in the QUran or Sunnah. What do these verses have to do with the Norway rapes? Why havn't the Norwegian authorities blamed Islam? Why are you avoiding the issue? why do you not back up your nonsense with facts?


The verses above have nothing to do with what you said. There is no sexual hypocricy in Islam. This wasn't what you said originally. You said Islam allows rape.

The Prophet and Islam allows men to have multiple wives, (no different to men in the WEst having mistresses, except that Islam isn't hypocritical about it, and gives women rights, unlike in the West, where you have undignified paternity battles in court) and in days gone by, they could have slaves and concubines. If youre seriously interested in learning about the reasons for this i can show you. But i get the feeling you;'re not interested in that, but rather you're searching for material to distort and lie.

I'm going out now, and will deal with you when i get back.......in the meantime reveal more of your bigoted, hatemongering sources...........


proof of mohammad authorized rape in the hadiths. one raihana (rihana), mohammad kept for himself. rihana's entire family was slaughtered before her eyes. Unlikely that she would "bed" mohammad willingly.

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3371. Also, read what mohammad did to the tribe of banu-'l-mustaqliq.

The qoranic verse for Anti-semitism are:

2:88-90
2:100
3:111
5:60 (this is the "jews are pigs and monkeys" one)

But even the stone behind which a jew hides will say. o muslim, there is a jew hiding behind me, so kill him. they have incurred the curse and wrath of allah, who transformed them into monkey and swine

3:112
2:96


[i]The Prophet and Islam allows men to have multiple wives, (no different to men in the WEst having mistresses, except that Islam isn't hypocritical about it, and gives women rights, unlike in the West, where you have undignified paternity battles in court) and in days gone by, they could have slaves and concubines.

The west may well allow mistresses. However, if a man forces himself upon a woman (any woman, it could even be his own wife), it is RAPE. Of course, in the islamic definition, it may not be rape. islam's sense of right and wrong is radically different from that of the civlized world's. Oh, and i suppose each slave and concubine conceded to mohammad willingly?

Hope you are not a muslim woman. Coz if you are, you'd have to produce four male witnesses to the rape. otherwise the woman who is raped is declared guilty of fornication and stoned to death. The phrase "allah is merciful" has got to be the most oxy-moronic in the english languge or any language for that matter.

Oh, and do come back after you are done stepping out (desperately trying to look up Pickthal for rebuttal are you?). Well even the most apologetic translation of the koran and hadiths fails to hide the filth in your religion and its prophet. And please dont even bother to claim the prophets of judaism as your own, or i will tear you a new one. again.

[Muslima]

By the way, I NEVER said Islam allows rape. When you get yourself all upset, perhaps you have hallucinations. I hope you get better in 2006, speaking of which, it is time for me to get ready and go party! ;)

You said to Rune, you disagree that the rapes have nothing to do with Islam, (see your quote below) and now you say "I never said Islam allows rape" . Contradictory statement isn't it? Yet you didn't back up any of your accusations below




"Thank you, Rune!
From the second link: "...I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today..." "

You havn't backed up what you said above.
1. Where in the Quran and Sunnah is it perfectly allowed to rape concubines, slaves.
2. I asked you for a reference in which The Prophet forced sex
3. If European women are war booty, how do you explain the rapes comitted (majority ) by non Muslim men? Did you know the USA has the highest number of rape stats in the world? They're not comitted by Muslims.

You selectively pick out a number of news articles in which Muslim men rape, and then use those to make a sweeping bigoted generalisation about all Muslim men and the faith of Islam,

This can work in reverse, for it isn't difficult for anyone who wants to label Jewish men as rapists, killers or whatever, to selectively market a few news articles, and then say
"hey Judaism allows peadophilla, or rape or whatever"

Oh, and don't attempt to wiggle out of your lies by changing the subject to men being allowed multiple wives, just because you don't like the idea. I told you before there is no sexual hypocricy in Islam. (Making a big deal out of monogomy when the social fabric points to the opposite being true) The issue of men having mulitple wives has nothing to do with what you said. Stick to the subject please, the subject that you yourself raised.

[Muslima]

OK, let's use your logic here.

Siince Israel has the highest number women of women trafickers in the Mid East region. (Do a search on google and you will find countless links and news articles about Jewish dominance in porn, prostitution, and crime).

Do you now say that this has something to do with the Jewish religion? If not, why not, when there is a wealth of data that can corroborate this statement....

Can you now explain how would you rebut the following accusation based on your own logic, ...let's say for example if someone were to say to you...

"Jewish dominance in porn , prostitution and crime has a lot to do with Judaism"


Jewish Gangsters Raped, Killed Children As Young As 2 On Film
JEWISH CHILD PORN / SNUFF FILM RING DISCOVERED
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/snuffporn.htm

Prostitution/Traf in Jewish Communities
http://theawarenesscenter.org/prostitution.html#We

Israel's sex trade
by: Hasdai Westbrook and Victoria Blint
http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/864_israel_s_sex_trade.htm


JEWS AND "WHITE SLAVERY"
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/10whsla.htm

[Muslima]

proof of mohammad authorized rape in the hadiths. one raihana (rihana), mohammad kept for himself. rihana's entire family was slaughtered before her eyes. Unlikely that she would "bed" mohammad willingly.

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3371. Also, read what mohammad did to the tribe of banu-'l-mustaqliq.

The qoranic verse for Anti-semitism are:

2:88-90
2:100
3:111
5:60 (this is the "jews are pigs and monkeys" one)

But even the stone behind which a jew hides will say. o muslim, there is a jew hiding behind me, so kill him. they have incurred the curse and wrath of allah, who transformed them into monkey and swine

3:112
2:96


[i]The Prophet and Islam allows men to have multiple wives, (no different to men in the WEst having mistresses, except that Islam isn't hypocritical about it, and gives women rights, unlike in the West, where you have undignified paternity battles in court) and in days gone by, they could have slaves and concubines.

The west may well allow mistresses. However, if a man forces himself upon a woman (any woman, it could even be his own wife), it is RAPE. Of course, in the islamic definition, it may not be rape. islam's sense of right and wrong is radically different from that of the civlized world's. Oh, and i suppose each slave and concubine conceded to mohammad willingly?

Hope you are not a muslim woman. Coz if you are, you'd have to produce four male witnesses to the rape. otherwise the woman who is raped is declared guilty of fornication and stoned to death. The phrase "allah is merciful" has got to be the most oxy-moronic in the english languge or any language for that matter.

Oh, and do come back after you are done stepping out (desperately trying to look up Pickthal for rebuttal are you?). Well even the most apologetic translation of the koran and hadiths fails to hide the filth in your religion and its prophet. And please dont even bother to claim the prophets of judaism as your own, or i will tear you a new one. again.

Shimon you prove your crass ignorance here in perfect style. I'm not going to waste my time on someone like you, whose only info comes from sites run by the low IQ and hatemongering brigade.

I dont even have to defend the Prophet against rape accusations, that you make, you only have to read his well documented life, and i'm not talking about those written by Muslims. Even his critical NON MUSLIM biographers, havn't accused him of rape. Your statesments border on the riduculous.

About your statement on rape being a crime in the West........are you serious? Are you saying rape is allowed in Islam?

About the Rehaniya incident, it is laughable. Learn about Islamic history from proper sources. Rape is punishble by death in Islam, or 80 lashes if the rapist is not married, and the Quran bans men from forcing slave girls into sex.

There is no anti-semitism in the Quran. The verses you mention, apply to specific incidents, they are not absolute but confined to a specific time/event/incident. The absolute verses are distinctly different to confined verses. Clearly you know nothing about the Quran.

Don't ever assume to discuss Islam with me, if you all you know is gathered from hate sites as is so apparent from your post.

You don't even bother to ask yourself if what you say is true, then why are so many WESTERN WOMEN (and men) CONVERTING TO ISLAM? check these links i posted here, in this thread and then come back and explain
Islam attracts highest numbers of converts worldwide
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=169523&postcount=8

Oh and Annaliese , i'm curious to hear your opinon on why so many western women convert to Islam if Muslim men are rapists as you imply

[Achihud]

There is no anti-semitism in the Quran. The verses you mention, apply to specific incidents, they are not absolute but confined to a specific time/event/incident. No comment!



But do mind the signature...;)

[Annaliese]

You said to Rune, you disagree that the rapes have nothing to do with Islam, (see your quote below) and now you say "I never said Islam allows rape" . Contradictory statement isn't it? Yet you didn't back up any of your accusations below

~~~rant, rant, rant~~~

Stick to the subject please, the subject that you yourself raised.

1. I did not make the statement you quoted. It was from Rune's second link, as so stated in my post.

2. The subject is the spate of rapes by muslims; it is not the koran. In other words, the thread-starting article was about actions and not words.

P.S. Cool job, ShimonG. :D

[Muslima]

1. I did not make the statement you quoted. It was from Rune's second link, as so stated in my post.

2. The subject is the spate of rapes by muslims; it is not the koran. In other words, the thread-starting article was about actions and not words.

P.S. Cool job, ShimonG. :D


Oh, so you didn't say it, but you endorsed it right, or else why did you copy and highlight it? That Fjordman website (scandinavian blog about Islam, some joke,What are his credentials? His knowledge? ) has even less credibility than the ones i posted about Jewish dominance in porn, etc.

Even an idiot can see what he is upto.........taking some news stories, adding his own spin and lies...........and for people like you to come by and eagerly lap up his nonsense.


He is no authority on Islam, his website is like jewwatch.com, only with 90% less credibility, as he adds his own ignorant spin.

Why did you not answer the quesions i posed about Jewish dominance in porn etc.

I'm getting sick of your evading the issue, running around in circles, refusing to answer direct questions, answering only what you want, and ignoring that which you can't. Unless you have something intelligent to add (highly unlikey) you are dismissed!

[Muslima]

No comment!



But do mind the signature...;)

Achihud , what are you rambling on about? Your signature? Definately NOT cool;)

I hope you find this link helpful in errrrr. revising your radical opinions about apes and pigs!
Does the Qur’an Sound Anti-Semitic?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544884

[Achihud]

I hope you find this link helpful in errrrr. revising your radical opinions about apes and pigs! As long as you keep ignoring my clear invitation to visit a certain thread in IF, you can stick your link from outside IF where the sun doesn't shine! Your signature? It contains a link leading to a thread inside IF, haven't you noticed yet???
Achihud , what are you rambling on about? That these so-called "incidents" as you refer to them, NEVER HAPPENED!
But it would be stupid (and boring) to present the same evidence all over again to every trolling muslim around that for convenience sake chooses to ignore what he/she doesn't want to acknowledge. Namely that those antisemitic stories from the Qu'ran are nothing more then fairy tales. The longer you hesitate to accept my invitation, the better my signature exposes you as being a showcase that islam is nothing more then a self-conjuring mantra/big lie!

Such as this quote: There is no anti-semitism in the Quran. The verses you mention, apply to specific incidents, they are not absolute but confined to a specific time/event/incident.
Ta-da!

[Muslima]

As long as you keep ignoring my clear invitation to visit a certain thread in IF, you can stick your link from outside IF where the sun doesn't shine! It contains a link leading to a thread inside IF, haven't you noticed yet???
That these so-called "incidents" as you refer to them, NEVER HAPPENED!
But it would be stupid (and boring) to present the same evidence all over again to every trolling muslim around that for convenience sake chooses to ignore what he/she doesn't want to acknowledge. Namely that those antisemitic stories from the Qu'ran are nothing more then fairy tales. The longer you hesitate to accept my invitation, the better my signature exposes you as being a showcase that islam is nothing more then a self-conjuring mantra/big lie!

Such as this quote:
Ta-da!

OOOOPS!!!

I didn't realise you were bottling up so much Achihud! Well i didn't know about your invitation about visiting that thread! Anyhow i visited it.....and........same 'ole.....same 'ole........

What exactly is your point? I'm sure you already know the answer to that one, surely?

Look, i never said the incidents didn't happen, but if you want to learn about them, you have to go to the proper sources! The Quran was revealed over 22 years, and each verse has a history behind it, some verses refer to a specific incident, and some are absolute (commands to believers) . The Prophets battles with his enemies are documented in the QUran and Sunnah.

The history of this particular verse in Surah Al Maidah (about disobedient Jews being turned into apes) has been badly distorted, anyhow.....very briefly (a search on google will give you plenty of authentic Islamic links that can explain more fully) :
It's a symbolic punishment to those who didn't keep the Sabbath, and turned to idolatary. However, what the distorters don't tell you, is that the same punishment awaits disobedient Muslims too. They conveniently pick out the Jews here, as it suits the current political agenda. But the Prophet made it clear that amongst Muslim's there would be those who will be punished in the same way as they would comit the same sins the Book People did (idolatry). On Yom al Qiyamah, (day of judgement) the symbolic punishment will be carried out on those who merited it, the Book People and Muslims, unless God chooses to forgive.

I havn't got time to look up verses and surah's and Hadeeth's but if you search google, you will find plenty. I gave you one link myself, that site has more!

I'm sure you're aware that this verse was only recently distorted, because of Arab anger against Jews (over Israel) and never before in our 1400+ history with the Book People.

It has to be said, that those imam's who distort the verses to suit politcal agenda's are clearly wrong. Equally wrong , are those who take what they say as the truth! The blind leading the blind!

Achihud why do you blindly swallow what they say? Do you not bother to use your head and think that in anger they may be distorting the revelations?

[ShimonG]

Shimon you prove your crass ignorance here in perfect style. I'm not going to waste my time on someone like you, whose only info comes from sites run by the low IQ and hatemongering brigade.


And you pour your vile filth defending rapists. You are right. My sources are "low IQ" and "hate-mongering." AKA as the qoran and hadith. and by the way, what do you call a person who at the age of 50 forces himself on a little girl still playing with dolls? Argue the content if you have the decency to do so. the source is hardly relevant if the information is factual.



I dont even have to defend the Prophet against rape accusations, that you make, you only have to read his well documented life, and i'm not talking about those written by Muslims. Even his critical NON MUSLIM biographers, havn't accused him of rape. Your statesments border on the riduculous.

No, you CAN'T defend mohammad. rape is never defensible. the hadiths cover his well-documented life, which includes rape, allowing his followers to commit rape stating that allah allows it, murder, theft (of meccan caravans with one-fifth the booty handed over to mohammad) and authorizing the murder of his critics.

See, you are following the classical three steps of the mohammadan.
1. First demand proof
2. When proof is cited, using the koran and the hadiths no less, accuse the person presenting the evidence of "low IQ" etc. It is you who have a low IQ, ya moslem, for following such filth blindly.
3. When all else fails, state that other religions have done equally bad.

You have completed the first two. Start working on the third. Or are you too busy assembling that suicide belt with slogans of "itbah al-yahud" splashed across your forehead in a manner that would have done mohammand himself proud.

About your statement on rape being a crime in the West........are you serious? Are you saying rape is allowed in Islam?

Last i heard, rape is a cognizable offence in most civilized societies. Rape of women captured is allowed in islam.

RAPE OF NON-MUSLIM WOMEN OR KUFR WOMEN IS ALLOWED IN ISLAM AS DECLARED BY MOHAMMAD HIMSELF, STATING THAT YOUR "MERCIFUL (PUKE) ALLAH HIMSELF ALLOWS IT FOR THE FAITHFUL.

FOR A NON-MUSLIM RAPING A MUSLIM, IT IS CERTAIN PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. FOR A MUSLIM RAPING A MUSLIM, YOU'D REQUIRE FOUR MUSLIM WITNESSES, ELSE THE VICTIM IS GUILTY OF FORNICATION AND STONED AS AN ADULTRESS.

About the Rehaniya incident, it is laughable. Learn about Islamic history from proper sources. Rape is punishble by death in Islam, or 80 lashes if the rapist is not married, and the Quran bans men from forcing slave girls into sex.

Your ignorance is truly astounding. This is like the oft-declared islamic filth stating that "islam condemns the murder of innocents." NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

To understand this particular canard, one must first define innocent. No muslim, and certain not mohammad/allah consider a person not believing in mohammad/allah as INNOCENT. Therefore the murder of non-muslims is implicitly sanctioned in the qoran. No matter how loudly muslima's of the world may seek to lie and decieve.

There is no anti-semitism in the Quran. The verses you mention, apply to specific incidents, they are not absolute but confined to a specific time/event/incident. The absolute verses are distinctly different to confined verses. Clearly you know nothing about the Quran.

You've got to be the most shameful and deceitful muslim i have crossed words with. and considering that your religion itself is islam, that says a lot.

The above has to take the cake. First, the porki argues that there is no anti-semitism. Then admits the authencity of the verses that refer to jews as pigs and monkeys. And then seeks to exonerate islam by stating that UNDER CERTAIN CONTEXTS, IT IS OK TO CALL JEWS PIGS AND MONKEYS

Here is what is indisputable. That islam, in whatever context that apologists for islam may seek to offer, refers to jews as pigs and monkeys. Even this creature muslima does not dispute that. But seeks to gloss it over by stating that it is "only in a limited context." CAMEL PISS, I SAY. Go peddle your BS elsewhere. You stand utterly exposed by your own hate-filled qoran.

So, shove your "crass ignorance" where the sun dont shine. It is your religion and your prophet and your texts that are hate-filled. Pointing out the obvious is not. Clearly, either you yourself know nothing about your own cess-pool or are conveniently playing dumb.

I consider it my sworn duty to expose lying muslims like you. I consider it an eminent use of my time to expose your filth.

Don't ever assume to discuss Islam with me, if you all you know is gathered from hate sites as is so apparent from your post.

I certainly will, if you keep up your lying $hit. It is you who presume that this material is gathered from so-called hate sites. I suppose, any site that exposes the depravity of mohammand and the barbarity of the qoran must be default be a hate-site according to your duplicitious mohammadan definition.

You don't even bother to ask yourself if what you say is true, then why are so many WESTERN WOMEN (and men) CONVERTING TO ISLAM? check these links i posted here, in this thread and then come back and explain
Islam attracts highest numbers of converts worldwide
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=169523&postcount=8


Ah, so we have come to the final refuge of the scoundrel.
"Islam is the fastest growing religion"
"Westerners (Richard Reid being one) are attracted to islam"
"Why are women attracted to islam?"

ALL NON-SEQUITURS.
Because every muslims produces 10 children, and the islamic population explodes, i suppose it is the world's fastest growing religion. Well, if so. It is also the world most depraved, illiterate and poverty-ridden. AND IS THERE AN EXIT ALLOWED FROM ISLAM. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MUSLIM WHO RE-NOUNCES ISLAM. APOSACY IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.

Westerners are also attracted to drugs. Gee, that must mean drugs is a good thing. More and more black inmates in the us prison system and finding allah. Of course, they are. Once they convert, all their murders and rapes and then forgiven as it is the muslims' right to do so against the kufr. Did mohammad not do the same? Does allah not grant the same?

Germans also happily followed the Nazis. Gee, that must make it right, does'nt it?

[rhodescholar]

The Religion of peace.com website has a clear agenda to distort Islam. Even a fool can see that.

As for the thread , that you posted, there is nothing in it that says Islam allows forced sex.

Can you show me exactly where it says, men can force women to have sex. You keep posting links which are irrelevant to Islam, and nothing that is pertinent to your accusation.

I'm still waiting.............

Are you clueless?

The article listed BY NAME islamic clerics both accepting and exhorting rapes of women. Those clerics are using islam to justify the rapes. What is not clear?

[Muslima]

And you pour your vile filth defending rapists. You are right. My sources are "low IQ" and "hate-mongering." AKA as the qoran and hadith. and by the way, what do you call a person who at the age of 50 forces himself on a little girl still playing with dolls? Argue the content if you have the decency to do so. the source is hardly relevant if the information is factual.



No, you CAN'T defend mohammad. rape is never defensible. the hadiths cover his well-documented life, which includes rape, allowing his followers to commit rape stating that allah allows it, murder, theft (of meccan caravans with one-fifth the booty handed over to mohammad) and authorizing the murder of his critics.

See, you are following the classical three steps of the mohammadan.
1. First demand proof
2. When proof is cited, using the koran and the hadiths no less, accuse the person presenting the evidence of "low IQ" etc. It is you who have a low IQ, ya moslem, for following such filth blindly.
3. When all else fails, state that other religions have done equally bad.

You have completed the first two. Start working on the third. Or are you too busy assembling that suicide belt with slogans of "itbah al-yahud" splashed across your forehead in a manner that would have done mohammand himself proud.



Last i heard, rape is a cognizable offence in most civilized societies. Rape of women captured is allowed in islam.

RAPE OF NON-MUSLIM WOMEN OR KUFR WOMEN IS ALLOWED IN ISLAM AS DECLARED BY MOHAMMAD HIMSELF, STATING THAT YOUR "MERCIFUL (PUKE) ALLAH HIMSELF ALLOWS IT FOR THE FAITHFUL.

FOR A NON-MUSLIM RAPING A MUSLIM, IT IS CERTAIN PUNISHABLE BY DEATH. FOR A MUSLIM RAPING A MUSLIM, YOU'D REQUIRE FOUR MUSLIM WITNESSES, ELSE THE VICTIM IS GUILTY OF FORNICATION AND STONED AS AN ADULTRESS.



Your ignorance is truly astounding. This is like the oft-declared islamic filth stating that "islam condemns the murder of innocents." NOTHING CAN BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

To understand this particular canard, one must first define innocent. No muslim, and certain not mohammad/allah consider a person not believing in mohammad/allah as INNOCENT. Therefore the murder of non-muslims is implicitly sanctioned in the qoran. No matter how loudly muslima's of the world may seek to lie and decieve.



You've got to be the most shameful and deceitful muslim i have crossed words with. and considering that your religion itself is islam, that says a lot.

The above has to take the cake. First, the porki argues that there is no anti-semitism. Then admits the authencity of the verses that refer to jews as pigs and monkeys. And then seeks to exonerate islam by stating that UNDER CERTAIN CONTEXTS, IT IS OK TO CALL JEWS PIGS AND MONKEYS

Here is what is indisputable. That islam, in whatever context that apologists for islam may seek to offer, refers to jews as pigs and monkeys. Even this creature muslima does not dispute that. But seeks to gloss it over by stating that it is "only in a limited context." CAMEL PISS, I SAY. Go peddle your BS elsewhere. You stand utterly exposed by your own hate-filled qoran.

So, shove your "crass ignorance" where the sun dont shine. It is your religion and your prophet and your texts that are hate-filled. Pointing out the obvious is not. Clearly, either you yourself know nothing about your own cess-pool or are conveniently playing dumb.

I consider it my sworn duty to expose lying muslims like you. I consider it an eminent use of my time to expose your filth.



I certainly will, if you keep up your lying $hit. It is you who presume that this material is gathered from so-called hate sites. I suppose, any site that exposes the depravity of mohammand and the barbarity of the qoran must be default be a hate-site according to your duplicitious mohammadan definition.



Ah, so we have come to the final refuge of the scoundrel.
"Islam is the fastest growing religion"
"Westerners (Richard Reid being one) are attracted to islam"
"Why are women attracted to islam?"

ALL NON-SEQUITURS.
Because every muslims produces 10 children, and the islamic population explodes, i suppose it is the world's fastest growing religion. Well, if so. It is also the world most depraved, illiterate and poverty-ridden. AND IS THERE AN EXIT ALLOWED FROM ISLAM. WHAT HAPPENS TO THE MUSLIM WHO RE-NOUNCES ISLAM. APOSACY IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.

Westerners are also attracted to drugs. Gee, that must mean drugs is a good thing. More and more black inmates in the us prison system and finding allah. Of course, they are. Once they convert, all their murders and rapes and then forgiven as it is the muslims' right to do so against the kufr. Did mohammad not do the same? Does allah not grant the same?

Germans also happily followed the Nazis. Gee, that must make it right, does'nt it?

1. I did not defend the rapists, clearly you are semi-blind.

2. No, you don't expose my deceit, you expose your own hatred, bigotry, and jealousy. I told you the Prophet's life is well documented. You know very well rape is not part of the Sunnah or Islamic tradition. To say that Islam allows rape of Non Muslim women is just too laughable for words.

3. Carry on hating , you will only damage yourself, you'll be one who suffers.

4. About your lies and venomous attacks on the Prophet....(shows how out of touch you are) the following links, are what prominent NON MUSLIM scholars, historians and academics have to say about Mohammed, these men are far more learned and intelligent than you ShimonG,(some are Jewish) and in the big picture, your opinions count for Zilch. I don't see any references on rape etc. here.......what are your comments on these links?;)

What non Muslims say about The Prophet

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=169954&postcount=104

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=169956&postcount=105

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=169957&postcount=106

Top 100 most influential men in history. Muhammed No.1


The following is from Michael Hart's book and lists Prophet Muhammad as the
most influential man in History.
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=170180&postcount=128

Muhammed - Themost influential man in history- part 1 -extract from M Hart's book
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=170181&postcount=129


Muhammed - The most influential man in history..part 2-extract from M Hart's book
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?p=170183#post170183

Never mind it is clear what your problem is, ....

Me lady doth protest too much........... i think i understand where you're coming from.....as any psychoanalyst would deduce, it is common for someone with evil tendencies to project them onto those he doesn't like, hoping to paint them just as evil.....

one question..... Are you a rapist ?

"Note to self"

Silly girl! Of course he is not going to admit it!

[Muslima]

ShimonG can you explain these verses to me please. They are taken from the Torah and Talmud.
They allow rape, sex with 3 yr old girls, and selling of daughters.
Also, i want to know how you can criticise another religion, by distorting it, when your own has ever more clearer directives of what you accuse Islam of?

Looking forward to your comments......

The Talmud

Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).

Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."


(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)


As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.



(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)



If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.



(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)



"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

[Muslima]

Are you clueless?

The article listed BY NAME islamic clerics both accepting and exhorting rapes of women. Those clerics are using islam to justify the rapes. What is not clear?

You answered your own question Rhodescholar, when you said "using Islam to justify" and i stand by what i said. That website has an agenda to distort the truth. First no imam there said rape is justified..
Second, the laws which are binding are those in the Quran and Sunnah. What scholars say is only their own interpretation, not necessarily correct, and what percentage of Muslim's follow the oddball clerics anyway? Can you answer this please.

I can't believe i'm writing this.
Do you not have Rabbi's who distort the Torah to suit their own agenda's? what about the one who was saying American's were punished by God (the hurricane) for the disengagement?

By the way, what do you have to say to the verses from Torah /Talmud, which justify rape, sex with 3 yr old girls, and selling daughters which i posted for ShimonG,

[Mediocrates]

ShimonG can you explain these verses to me please. They are taken from the Torah and Talmud.
They allow rape, sex with 3 yr old girls, and selling of daughters.
Also, i want to know how you can criticise another religion, by distorting it, when your own has ever more clearer directives of what you accuse Islam of?

Looking forward to your comments......


This is a misquote/mistranslation of what 'marriage' and 'child' are.


The Talmud

Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.


neither here nor there


Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).


see above.


Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

It talks about what the punishment is, not what the crime is. The discussion does not mean that the act is permissible - in tractate
Makkoth, which discusses the laws relevant to the punihment of whipping,
there is no age-based exception to the penalty.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

However, the whole discussion has to do with the circumstances under which a girl is considered to have lost her virginity and thus be ineligible for the entitlement of a virgin bride upon marriage; there is also a discussion in the same passage of being "injured by a piece of wood." The phrase which in its literal translation means "it is nothing" is a Talmudic idiom for "it has no bearing on this matter" - in this example, "it has no bearing on her status as a virgin."


(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

http://www.utoronto.ca/wjudaism/journal/vol1n1/v1n1elma.htm (http://www.utoronto.ca/wjudaism/journal/vol1n1/v1n1elma.htm)



(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NAB)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


See above, definitional distinctions between virgin bride status and not.


(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."


See above URL


(Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)[/quote]

From the marginal notes of the Stone edition Tanakh:

Until a girl reaches puberty the Torah gives her father the right to 'sell' her as a bondswoman but as the passage itself and the teachings of the Sages makes clear the right is given him for her benefit. He is permitted to ‘sell’ her because the sale is expected to result in her marriage to either her master or his son. In fact if neither of the two marries her, the Torah regards it as a betrayal of the girl (verse 8) If one of them chooses to marry her the purchase price received by the father will constitute betrothal money by means of which she will become consecrated to either of them (Kiddushim 18b) equivalent to the ring that is currently used to effect betrothal. Ordinarily a father should not exercise his right of betrothal while his daughter is still a child (Kiddushin 41a) but in the case of this passage he may do so because it is an opportunity to provide her future that would otherwise not be available. The girl goes free in one of three ways: at the end of 6 years, upon the advent of the Jubilee Year, when her puberty begins.

[Mediocrates]

FWIW this section, the MishPatim, is the civil code, not the religious code.

[Annaliese]

Thanks for bringing forward the truth, everyone except Muslima :D . Here is an article by the wonderful Robert Spencer:

Rape in Islam: Blaming the Victim

"For almost a year," observes Edward Said in this week’s edition of Cairo’s Al-Ahram Weekly, "American politicians, regional experts, administration officials, journalists have repeated the charges that have become standard fare so far as Islam and the Arabs are concerned. . . . To today’s practically unanimous chorus has been added the authority of the United Nation’s Human Development Report on the Arab world which certified that Arabs dramatically lag behind the rest of the world in democracy, knowledge, and women’s rights."

Said has no more patience for this sort of thing than he did when he wrote Orientalism and Covering Islam, the twin towers of today’s academic Islamophilia. He acidly dismisses the criticisms as "vague re-cycled Orientalist clichés of the kind repeated by a tireless mediocrity like Bernard Lewis."

Yet just as Said’s lament appeared, the French businesswoman Touria Tiouli went to court in the United Arab Emirates. Heedlessly risking the recycling of vague Orientalist clichés, Dubai officials have turned her charge that she was raped by three men on its head and accused her of zina, sexual activity outside marriage. In Dubai, a bastion of moderate Islam, this charge isn’t punishable by stoning, as it is in more hard-line Muslim countries — it only carries an 18-month jail sentence.

Tiouli continues to fight: on Sunday she entered a not guilty plea. To the claims of her attackers that she was a willing participant and, in fact, a prostitute whom they duly paid, she replied simply, "My lawyer will prove I did not consent. If I had consented, I would not have brought the case."

Indeed, it’s hard to imagine a prostitute in Dubai going to the police willingly under any circumstances. For Sharia courts all over the Islamic world seem only too willing to reinforce the stereotypes of Islam that Said deplores, particularly where women are concerned. In Nigeria, a woman named Sufiyatu Huseini suffered through circumstances remarkably similar to Tiouli’s. She said she was raped, but the man she accused denied it, and instead Huseini was charged with adultery.

Nigeria is no moderate Dubai: Huseini faced death by stoning until the verdict was overturned under international pressure. Countless other women in similar situations have already been stoned to death or jailed. According to Sisters in Islam, a Malaysian advocacy group for Muslim women, in Pakistan "three out of four women in prison . . . are rape victims."

This blame-the-victim mentality should be the worst nightmare of American feminists, were it not for the fact that they view it through rosy multiculturalist glasses. But does it really represent the hijacking of the Religion of Peace on a grand scale?

Not quite. These cases all unfolded according to the classic directives of the Sharia.

Traditional Islamic law, which is still very much in force in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, most (if not all) of post-Taliban Afghanistan, and elsewhere, completely disregards the testimony of women in cases of a sexual nature. Aside from physical evidence, the only way to establish rape is by the testimony of four male witnesses (who, by the way, must be Muslims in good standing) who actually saw the act itself. Without these witnesses and a confession from the accused rapist, the victim will stand condemned by her very accusation: she wasn’t raped, so she must be guilty of zina.

Moreover, the prosecution has been careful to point out that Tiouli didn’t call for help. "According to Islamic Sharia," says the Nigerian Imam Mallam Muhammad Sani Isa, "it cannot be considered rape unless you asked for help."

According to Aliyu Abubakar Sanyinna, the attorney general of Nigeria’s Zamfara state (where Huseini went through her ordeal), this codified miscarriage of justice is "the law of Allah. By executing anybody that is convicted under Isl