What if the WB and GS was made a protectorate of...................

[L@mplighterM]

.

[takeo]

As far as the palestinians are concerned, anything is better than Israel. And for sure Arafat will win the elections and Libanon, Egypt or Jordan will make this territories independant as soon as possible, so it's a good idea.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by takeo
As far as the palestinians are concerned, anything is better than Israel. And for sure Arafat will win the elections and Libanon, Egypt or Jordan will make this territories independant as soon as possible, so it's a good idea.

I withdraw my idea!

[Mediocrates]

you mean like the way they were before 1967? gee one wonders at the tortured logic you'll employ to blame it on the Jews when all the Palestinians are under the 'protection' of Jordan and Egypt.

[takeo]

hey 2002 is different than 1948-1967.

[JustPat]

Originally posted by takeo
hey 2002 is different than 1948-1967.
How? Have the Jordanians suddenly found a place in their hearts for the Palestinians? Has Egypt recanted her repugnant disdain for the Palestinians? These countries are all "friends from afar", but none wants to be a true partner with those they despise.

[takeo]

They have officially renounced their rights on Westbank and Gaza, not to Israel but to the Palestinians. They didn't have to do it, but they did.

[Mediocrates]

The Egyptians did not relinquish Sinai. It was returned to them by the Israelis 20 years ago. Under the bilateral agreement every structure built since the Israeli 'occupation' of the Sinai had to be torn down.

[Mediocrates]

And since what matters to both the Jordanians and the Egyptians is that there are Palestinians living there it matters little who 'rules' them as long as they are not the problem of Jordan and Egypt. You should plan for the day when the other 2 million Palestinians are pushed back over the river from Jordan into Palestine at gunpoint. All very peacelovingly peaceful you understand.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by takeo
They have officially renounced their rights on Westbank and Gaza, not to Israel but to the Palestinians. They didn't have to do it, but they did.

If indeed they did do that it was most likely one of the best moves they ever made. That's called passing the buck.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by JustPat

How? Have the Jordanians suddenly found a place in their hearts for the Palestinians? Has Egypt recanted her repugnant disdain for the Palestinians? These countries are all "friends from afar", but none wants to be a true partner with those they despise.

Do you think that Egypt and Jordan renounced claims to the West Bank and Gaza because they disdain the Palestinians? I don't.

I think they renounced their claims simply because to not do so would force them to remain in a perpetual state of war with a military force that has proved over and over it can defeat them.

Really, the Palestinians on the West Bank are not much different from the Palestinians in Jordan, nor are the Palestinians in Gaza much different from the Egyptians.

This is why the idea of giving the two territories (sans East Jerusalem) back to Egypt and Jordan is a good idea for Israel, but one that Egypt and Jordan will never go along with. Because that would once again put Egypt and Jordan in the position of controlling the front line in the Arabs' racist war against the Jews -- a role they do not want to play.

Keep in mind: in at least one case Jordan was dragged into a war by its Arab allies. And the Arab states have misled each other about their capabilities and even the course of battle... as I recall, in 1967 the Egyptians told the Syrians and Jordanians they were winning big!

[takeo]

it is true that they will not take back the WB or Gaza because of the many problems associated with it, not only because they feel solidarity with the Palestinians, I agree.
But not because they would be "the front" against Israel but because Jordan + the Westbank means an overwelming Palestinian majority in Jordan that could treaten the regime...
about gaza it's a little and overpopulated "piece of ****", there is no reason why Egypt would want that back. And i think Palestinians in gaza are really different from Egyptians, in fact most palestinians in gaza came from all over Israel.
The idea will not work because Egypt and Jordan will make them independant almost immidiately + it is doubtfull that the Palestinians would accept another foreign occupation, even if it would be better of course than israeli occupation(again, 2002 is not the same as 1948-1967, after two intifadahs and Oslo)
And of course the Palestinians will never accept any peace without a just solution for Eastern jerusalem or the refugees.

[Vic]

Oh, by the way, anyone care to ask Egypt and Jordan about it?

Seriosly, would any state in its right mind consider taking over a couple of million thugs, armed to their teeth, trained in terrorist tactics, well-connected to just about every terror organization in the world and brainwashed into frenzied fanatism? What if they turn in on their new masters? They could just as well blow up restaurants and buses in Cairo and Amman. The Israeli experience is hardly inspiring, and it is hard to believe the "protectors"-to-be wouldn't think of it. In the greatest part of the Arab world the Palestinians are very much pitied but even more undesired - for pretty obvious security reasons.

I wouldn't however worry about the Palestinians "not accepting". So far it has not exactly been a common practice in this part of the world to ask the people what they think about their destiny. I daresay they would swallow anything, provided they are not encouraged to oppose it. Today's terrorists would probably be put to use in common organized crime. But even that would be reason enough for the "protectors" to decline too. (Come to think of it, the worst case scenario would be them getting hired as violent mercenaries of opposition gruops: picture how happy a "muslim brotherhood" would be about the influx of such highly qualified workforce!)

Pity Israel returned Sinai though. Looking at the map I sometimes think it might be a good idea to create some sort of Palestinian state there, not bordering directly on Israel and without access to the Mediterranean. Since parts of Sinai consist of flatland, it shouldn't be difficult to seal the borders the way it is done now around the Gaza strip. I know that this is not a realistic idea.

[JustPat]

Originally posted by takeo
They have officially renounced their rights on Westbank and Gaza, not to Israel but to the Palestinians. They didn't have to do it, but they did. Just a coward's way of saying, "You take care of the problem."

[JustPat]

Originally posted by ibrodsky Keep in mind: in at least one case Jordan was dragged into a war by its Arab allies. And the Arab states have misled each other about their capabilities and even the course of battle... as I recall, in 1967 the Egyptians told the Syrians and Jordanians they were winning big!
"And I thrust my nose between his teeth and threw him to the ground on top of me." - Mark Twain

[JustPat]

Originally posted by Vic Pity Israel returned Sinai though. Looking at the map I sometimes think it might be a good idea to create some sort of Palestinian state there, not bordering directly on Israel and without access to the Mediterranean. Since parts of Sinai consist of flatland, it shouldn't be difficult to seal the borders the way it is done now around the Gaza strip. I know that this is not a realistic idea.
May not be realistic, but it sure would make good sense!

[Vic]

Originally posted by JustPat

May not be realistic, but it sure would make good sense!

I suggest we continue this thread by discussing ideas no one - to put it precisely, to the best of the participants' knowledge - has ever thought of so far. I'm getting sick of the settlements-1967-borders- refugees-Jerusalem-two-states-or-binational-state-singsong. Let's think up something really new! :-)

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Vic


I suggest we continue this thread by discussing ideas no one - to put it precisely, to the best of the participants' knowledge - has ever thought of so far. I'm getting sick of the settlements-1967-borders- refugees-Jerusalem-two-states-or-binational-state-singsong. Let's think up something really new! :-)

Allright give them Antartica and deport them to there.

[JustPat]

Originally posted by Vic I suggest we continue this thread by discussing ideas no one - to put it precisely, to the best of the participants' knowledge - has ever thought of so far. I'm getting sick of the settlements-1967-borders- refugees-Jerusalem-two-states-or-binational-state-singsong. Let's think up something really new! :-) How 'bout this -
Take the Palestinians and give them Lyberia, take the Lyberians and give them Panama, take the Panamaneans and give them Rhode Island, take the Rhode Islanders and give them Taiwan, and take the Taiwanese and give them Areas A/B.

The Palestinians can blow up anything they want, they can't hurt Lyberia. The Lyberians already know how to work with the US and the canal stays under US influence until we don't want it anymore. The Panamaneans will quickly migrate to NY and Rhose Island can be made a free trade zone. The Rhode Islanders will form an open alliance with the Chinese and greatly inprove trade relations with the US. But, the gem of the deal, the Taiwanese will figure out a way to make a profit off their proximity to Israel and both will prosper. Problem solved!

[takeo]

What about transporting the Palestinians back to their homes in Israel and give the Israeli Rhode island? (anyway there are more Jews living in NY than in Israel so that wouldn't be too much of a problem)... Any country would be wellcoming a skilled and prosperous labourforce, France as well.
if you are tired of hearing the traditional 1967-borders-Jerusalem-refugees than this is the only alternative... I don't support it however.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by takeo
(anyway there are more Jews living in NY than in Israel so that wouldn't be too much of a problem

Not in fact but it makes good hate speech.

[takeo]

I heard so...(they told me 30 % of New Yorkers are of jewish origin, and as in the state of new York more than 18 million people are living...)
by the way i didn't start the hate-speech.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by JustPat
How 'bout this -
Take the Palestinians and give them Lyberia, take the Lyberians and give them Panama, take the Panamaneans and give them Rhode Island, take the Rhode Islanders and give them Taiwan, and take the Taiwanese and give them Areas A/B.

The Palestinians can blow up anything they want, they can't hurt Lyberia. The Lyberians already know how to work with the US and the canal stays under US influence until we don't want it anymore. The Panamaneans will quickly migrate to NY and Rhose Island can be made a free trade zone. The Rhode Islanders will form an open alliance with the Chinese and greatly inprove trade relations with the US. But, the gem of the deal, the Taiwanese will figure out a way to make a profit off their proximity to Israel and both will prosper. Problem solved!

Best thing I've heard so far.

[Mediocrates]

Jewish population throughout the world, by country and major diaspora cities:

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

At ~1.75 million, NYC is probably the most populous Jewish city in the world.

[takeo]

this figures don't take into account many people of Jewish origin. I always heard that the figure for france is 2 million, more than 3 times more the figure stated.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by JustPat
How 'bout this -
Take the Palestinians and give them Lyberia, take the Lyberians and give them Panama, take the Panamaneans and give them Rhode Island, take the Rhode Islanders and give them Taiwan, and take the Taiwanese and give them Areas A/B.

The Palestinians can blow up anything they want, they can't hurt Lyberia. The Lyberians already know how to work with the US and the canal stays under US influence until we don't want it anymore. The Panamaneans will quickly migrate to NY and Rhose Island can be made a free trade zone. The Rhode Islanders will form an open alliance with the Chinese and greatly inprove trade relations with the US. But, the gem of the deal, the Taiwanese will figure out a way to make a profit off their proximity to Israel and both will prosper. Problem solved!
That's GREAT!!!! :D

[JustPat]

Originally posted by takeo this figures don't take into account many people of Jewish origin. Explain yourself. What is this "of Jewish origin?"

[takeo]

People who are not religious but who have Jewish family, or at least mostly Jewish family(don't need to be religious) or a Jewish mother.
I think there are a lot more than 5 million of them in the US. Actually i heard that more than 25% of Americans had a jewish name...

[Vic]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM


Allright give them Antartica and deport them to there.

Whom? :-)

[Mediocrates]

"I think there are a lot more than 5 million of them in the US. Actually i heard that more than 25% of Americans had a jewish name..."


Are there any Klan meetings near you?

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by takeo
People who are not religious but who have Jewish family, or at least mostly Jewish family(don't need to be religious) or a Jewish mother.
I think there are a lot more than 5 million of them in the US. Actually i heard that more than 25% of Americans had a jewish name...

You heard wrong actually it's 125%.

[Mediocrates]

People used to think Eisenhower was Jewish because his name "sounded" Jewish.

[JustPat]

Originally posted by Mediocrates People used to think Eisenhower was Jewish because his name "sounded" Jewish. And the irony, his heritage was Pennsylvania Dutch (aka German.) It must be all those Smith and Jones Jews who boost the American percentages.

My greatgrandfather escaped the antisemitism of Europe (Belgium in particular) by "converting" to Catholicism and changing his name. Once he immigrated to the US he abandoned the Catholic Church, unfortunately he also abandoned his Jewish heritage. :(

[Vic]

Yet another "what if": http://www.theonion.com/onion3723/west_bank.html

[JustPat]

Originally posted by Vic Yet another "what if": http://www.theonion.com/onion3723/west_bank.html I've heard that this is also known as the 90 day solution. :D

[Vic]

Originally posted by JustPat
I've heard that this is also known as the 90 day solution. :D

That would be more than the current proposals ;-)
(Someone has just been trying to convince me what a truly great man Avnery is...)

[takeo]

:p

actually Eisenhower is not a Jewish name and not counted as such. I think all Americans who have at least 50 % Jewish blood in them are jewish. That could be even more than 25%...
i think the current counting only refers to Jews who are religious or officially registered themselves as jewish. Many did not, nor in France, nor in the uS I think.