France: Preaching for the Enemy

[Oh Jerusalem]

A nation of talking heads and do-nothing morons, soon to be devoured by their own pathetic complacency. French Jewish community, take note (again and again).

Donna, no need to press that red button. This is a self-destructing country.

Preaching for the Enemy (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13715)

By Olivier Guitta
FrontPageMagazine.com (http://www.frontpagemag.com/) | June 15, 2004

France is home to the largest Muslim community in Europe -- estimated between 5 and 8 million, roughly over 10 percent of France’s total population. In the past few years, the radical element of these French citizens has grown quickly, and is quietly overpowering more moderate Muslim voices. Many French Muslims idolize Osama bin Laden and consider the destruction of synagogues and assault of Jews to be justified retribution. These worrisome phenomena are caused by a number of things: increasing influence of radical imams in French mosques, the penetration of Saudi Wahhabism and extremist satellite networks spreading their propaganda.

I recently discussed these issues with Jean Francois Cope, spokesman of the French government, during a press conference in Washington DC. First, I asked Mr. Cope: knowing that 91 percent of the imams preaching in France are foreigners and most of them are illegal immigrants, does it not make sense to expel them, particularly those preaching hatred?


He answered that France cannot just expel them because these hate-mongering imams have been around for a while, as has their families. It would not be proper. Perhaps other French officials realized how silly this answer is, since very recently France expelled 5 of the most outrageously extremist imams since the beginning of the year. But in a country with 1,500 imams, this is just a drop in the ocean.



But exporting extremists isn't likely to make much of a dent in the growing radical movement, considering the impact Saudi Arabian Wahhabism has on French Islam. According to Stephen Schwartz and Dore Gold, both prominent experts on Saudi Arabia, the country funds 80 percent of every mosque and Islamic center in France. Saudi Arabia financed the very luxurious Institute of the Arab World in Paris. Also, Le Monde recently reported that Saudi Arabia is going to finance the restoration of the Paris Mosque.



So I asked Mr. Cope his opinion on this issue. Disappointingly, he denied any presence of Saudi Arabian influence in France. He added that the government was adamant in building a French Islam and as such is working with the French Muslim Council (FMC) to demand that future imams speak French. Today, more than 50 percent do not speak the vernacular, but Mr. Cope says time will change this.



Unfortunately, his optimism might be very short-lived for a couple of reasons. First, one of the main Muslim organizations in the FMC is the Union des Organizations Islamiques de France (French Union of Islamic Organizations, UOIF) - which is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, the terrorist movement founded in 1928 in Egypt. Second, the Arab newspaper Al Watan recently reported that the Saudi sponsored Islamic Countries Educational, Scientific, Cultural Organization (ICESCO) is going to finance a new school for training new French imams. So much for a true independent, foreign-free French Islam.



The last issue Mr. Cope and I discussed was the way Arab media spreads hatred through French cable and satellite television providers. Last summer, the anti-Western Arabic news channel Aljazeera replaced the Italian channel RAI in the main satellite lineup. Also, Al-Manar, the terrorist Shia Lebanese Hizbullah TV channel Al-Manar, started broadcasting in France in September 2002, after a meeting between President Chirac and Hizbullah head Nasrallah. Al-Manar is today one of the favorite channels among the French Muslim youth.



Recently, Al-Manar broadcasted a series called “Diaspora.” One episode featured the hateful, mythical blood libel, in which Jews kill a Christian child in order to prepare the matzo, a dish eaten during Passover. With this kind of blatant anti-Semitic indoctrination, it's no surprise Muslim youths feel entitled to commit anti-Semitic acts.



Don't look for France to crack down on these ignorant, hate-spewing networks, however. Mr. Cope said there was an agreement signed with each country that provides the service, and as such France had no control over the channels they decided to broadcast. Nevertheless, he mentioned that the French Audiovisual Commission was going to examine which programs to ban on a case by case basis, but not which channels. So, in spite of all the proof of hate propaganda spread daily on Al-Manar, the French government has no real will or intention to take it off the air.



From Mr. Cope's position, it appears France is far less than enthusiastic about truly aiding the War on Terror. The country is starting to act against radicalism on a very limited basis when it has no choice, adopting half-measures that serve to quiet critics. There are many more imams to arrest. The government should forbid the funding of French Muslim organizations/mosques by Saudi Arabia. And finally, it should ban TV channels such as Al-Manar, which are only spreading violence and hate against the West. But these kinds of agressive tactics just aren't part of France's program to defeat radical islam. As a result, anti-Semitism and anti-American sentiment continue to increase in the land of our great “ally.”

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
A nation of talking heads and do-nothing morons, soon to be devoured by their own pathetic complacency. French Jewish community, take note (again and again).

Donna, no need to press that red button. This is a self-destructing country.

Preaching for the Enemy (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13715)

By Olivier Guitta
FrontPageMagazine.com (http://www.frontpagemag.com/) | June 15, 2004

France is home to the largest Muslim community in Europe -- estimated between 5 and 8 million, roughly over 10 percent of France’s total population. In the past few years, the radical element of these French citizens has grown quickly, and is quietly overpowering more moderate Muslim voices. Many French Muslims idolize Osama bin Laden and consider the destruction of synagogues and assault of Jews to be justified retribution. These worrisome phenomena are caused by a number of things: increasing influence of radical imams in French mosques, the penetration of Saudi Wahhabism and extremist satellite networks spreading their propaganda.

I recently discussed these issues with Jean Francois Cope, spokesman of the French government, during a press conference in Washington DC. First, I asked Mr. Cope: knowing that 91 percent of the imams preaching in France are foreigners and most of them are illegal immigrants, does it not make sense to expel them, particularly those preaching hatred?


He answered that France cannot just expel them because these hate-mongering imams have been around for a while, as has their families. It would not be proper. Perhaps other French officials realized how silly this answer is, since very recently France expelled 5 of the most outrageously extremist imams since the beginning of the year. But in a country with 1,500 imams, this is just a drop in the ocean.



But exporting extremists isn't likely to make much of a dent in the growing radical movement, considering the impact Saudi Arabian Wahhabism has on French Islam. According to Stephen Schwartz and Dore Gold, both prominent experts on Saudi Arabia, the country funds 80 percent of every mosque and Islamic center in France. Saudi Arabia financed the very luxurious Institute of the Arab World in Paris. Also, Le Monde recently reported that Saudi Arabia is going to finance the restoration of the Paris Mosque.



So I asked Mr. Cope his opinion on this issue. Disappointingly, he denied any presence of Saudi Arabian influence in France. He added that the government was adamant in building a French Islam and as such is working with the French Muslim Council (FMC) to demand that future imams speak French. Today, more than 50 percent do not speak the vernacular, but Mr. Cope says time will change this.



Unfortunately, his optimism might be very short-lived for a couple of reasons. First, one of the main Muslim organizations in the FMC is the Union des Organizations Islamiques de France (French Union of Islamic Organizations, UOIF) - which is affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, the terrorist movement founded in 1928 in Egypt. Second, the Arab newspaper Al Watan recently reported that the Saudi sponsored Islamic Countries Educational, Scientific, Cultural Organization (ICESCO) is going to finance a new school for training new French imams. So much for a true independent, foreign-free French Islam.



The last issue Mr. Cope and I discussed was the way Arab media spreads hatred through French cable and satellite television providers. Last summer, the anti-Western Arabic news channel Aljazeera replaced the Italian channel RAI in the main satellite lineup. Also, Al-Manar, the terrorist Shia Lebanese Hizbullah TV channel Al-Manar, started broadcasting in France in September 2002, after a meeting between President Chirac and Hizbullah head Nasrallah. Al-Manar is today one of the favorite channels among the French Muslim youth.



Recently, Al-Manar broadcasted a series called “Diaspora.” One episode featured the hateful, mythical blood libel, in which Jews kill a Christian child in order to prepare the matzo, a dish eaten during Passover. With this kind of blatant anti-Semitic indoctrination, it's no surprise Muslim youths feel entitled to commit anti-Semitic acts.



Don't look for France to crack down on these ignorant, hate-spewing networks, however. Mr. Cope said there was an agreement signed with each country that provides the service, and as such France had no control over the channels they decided to broadcast. Nevertheless, he mentioned that the French Audiovisual Commission was going to examine which programs to ban on a case by case basis, but not which channels. So, in spite of all the proof of hate propaganda spread daily on Al-Manar, the French government has no real will or intention to take it off the air.



From Mr. Cope's position, it appears France is far less than enthusiastic about truly aiding the War on Terror. The country is starting to act against radicalism on a very limited basis when it has no choice, adopting half-measures that serve to quiet critics. There are many more imams to arrest. The government should forbid the funding of French Muslim organizations/mosques by Saudi Arabia. And finally, it should ban TV channels such as Al-Manar, which are only spreading violence and hate against the West. But these kinds of agressive tactics just aren't part of France's program to defeat radical islam. As a result, anti-Semitism and anti-American sentiment continue to increase in the land of our great “ally.”


What else can be said about France that hasn’t already been said, on this thread and others? We know, they are petty, arrogant, gutless and in all likelihood feebly attempting to clone Napoleon. But, he too, like his present day countrymen ended up a loser in exile.
Her anti-Semitism, anti-Israel and anti-Us stance, speaks volumes… of this despicable and gutless bunch, who surrender at the drop of the gauntlet.
Let’s pray they don’t win Euro 2004, as their heads are too big now, albeit empty.
Thanks, Oh Jerusalem, an excellent read; however, it tests one’s patience, reading about the ‘F’-word.

[Semsem]

Excellent article. My cousin in France has asked me to send her all articles about France as they don't read them there.

[Semsem]

<<A nation of talking heads and do-nothing morons, soon to be devoured by their own pathetic complacency. French Jewish community, take note (again and again).<<

I would not want 2 be a Jew in Eurabia / Europe today and especially not a Jew in France / Francabia.

[Semsem]

[they are petty, arrogant, gutless and in all likelihood feebly attempting to clone Napoleon. But, he too, like his present day countrymen ended up a loser in exile. >>

Napolean was nice to the Jews. He gave them French citizenship and released all european Jews ie. German Jews from the Ghettoes.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
[they are petty, arrogant, gutless and in all likelihood feebly attempting to clone Napoleon. But, he too, like his present day countrymen ended up a loser in exile. >>

Napolean was nice to the Jews. He gave them French citizenship and released all european Jews ie. German Jews from the Ghettoes.

Yes, but I was speaking of the old empire mentality... as some say, it was he who first envisaged European Union of sorts...
through expansionism.

[Semsem]

[as some say, it was he who first envisaged European Union of s<<orts...
through expansionism.<<

Good point. He was a war mongerer. But as a Jew to me he was a hero.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
[as some say, it was he who first envisaged European Union of s<<orts...
through expansionism.<<

Good point. He was a war mongerer. But as a Jew to me he was a hero.

As I was using Napoleon, as the ‘Imperialism’ measure; however, true, as you said, he is a hero to us, the Jews. Best I use someone like, Petain, as the other measure; anti-Semitism. Though, God knows, France isn’t the only country which suffers from a historical blight of anti-Semitism.
Nonetheless, it seems that France has once again employed its inherent trait of collaboration, appeasement, and intensification in its anti-Semitic or Vichy viewpoint.

[Semsem]

>>Nonetheless, it seems that France has once again employed its inherent trait of collaboration, appeasement, and intensification in its anti-Semitic or Vichy viewpoint.>>

Agreed. As has the rest of Europe except 4 possibly the Czech Republic and Italy and a few East European nations like Bulgaria that still have a little moral decency left. Even Romania I believe is somewhat balanced vis a vis the Israel Arab or should I say Islamic conflict, as this is what it has become.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by RichardP
Yes, but I was speaking of the old empire mentality... as some say, it was he who first envisaged European Union of sorts...
through expansionism. An idea of a European union of some sort, is as anciant as the Roman empire itself. It was an effort that goverened European politics since then fall of the Roman empire and the invasion of modern European tribes, some 15 centuries ago.

Perior attempts were made by royal marigages, vatican attempts to make the pope also a European leader, popes also supported different european emparors, like the spanish, austrians and French to spread their rule all over Europe... unification of Europe is not a new idea... all of Europe's history is revolving around it. It always ended with a bang... the entire middle ages were on big war... 30 years war, 7 years war... Napoleonic wars, WWII...

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>Nonetheless, it seems that France has once again employed its inherent trait of collaboration, appeasement, and intensification in its anti-Semitic or Vichy viewpoint.>>

Agreed. As has the rest of Europe except 4 possibly the Czech Republic and Italy and a few East European nations like Bulgaria that still have a little moral decency left. Even Romania I believe is somewhat balanced vis a vis the Israel Arab or should I say Islamic conflict, as this is what it has become.

Very true, Semsem, I have a Romanian friend who is attending a Holocaust symposium which concludes in Poland, in the fall. He sent me his last paper, on the Holocaust in Romania; unfortunately, maddeningly, I don’t speak Romanian.
Never Again: yet, the world today seems as complacent today, about the slaughter of Jews, as they did then.

[Semsem]

I went to school in England and all British history from 1066. Battle of Hastings to 1945 were war after war after war. I had to learn all the bloody dates of these wars. I was actually quite good at this.

It was always a war with France, Spain or Germany.

[Semsem]

Romanian foreign policy is I think pretty balanced vis a vis Israel. However a year ago the Romanian Prime Minister said that no Jew was ever murdered in Romania.

Well that was the biggest lie and distortion. Most of the Jews in Moldavia were murdered; half of the Romanian Jewish Community and the Romanian Fascist Antonescu regime did a lot of the killing. My grandmother was from there.

The Romanians did a good job in lying and distorting their own participation in the holocaust.

[Semsem]

>>yet, the world today seems as complacent today, about the slaughter of Jews, as they did then.>>

Well said and they actually encourage it by supporting Arafat etc.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>Nonetheless, it seems that France has once again employed its inherent trait of collaboration, appeasement, and intensification in its anti-Semitic or Vichy viewpoint.>>

Agreed. As has the rest of Europe except 4 possibly the Czech Republic and Italy and a few East European nations like Bulgaria that still have a little moral decency left. Even Romania I believe is somewhat balanced vis a vis the Israel Arab or should I say Islamic conflict, as this is what it has become.

As the son of Jewish refugees from Romania, on both sides, I can tell you with certainty, the Romanians are as evil murderus as the rest of the Eurpeans, only surpassed by the Germans...

Romanians are very poor and very weak, locked by two empires (some times three) for all along their history. So they made butt kissing an art. In terrible need for Western and American, or even Israeli investments... they will do everything, including admiting in their own crimes against humanity and the Jewish people.

I must also remind you, that the Romanians carried out the genocide of Jewish people BY THEM SELVES, with no German occupation of their territory, like in Poland or France. Romanian soldiers carried out the extermination of Romanian Jews alone, no Nazis around.

As the tables of war turned, the Romanians also were among the first to turn thier coats, and arrest all memebrs of the "iron guard", the Romanian SS, of the Nazi supporting goverment.

The Romanians, like the rest of the Europeans are scums, who only appretiat money and power. Nowdays their are poor and weak, willingly licking our feet and with great passion. Thousands of Romanians are empolyed as foreign labourers in Israel alone. Their verly lives are dependet on the shekels they earn in Israel. That is the ONLY reason why they are pro Israeli and pro American relative to all other nations of Eurpe.

[Semsem]

>>That is the ONLY reason why they are pro Israeli and pro American relative to all other nations of Eurpe.>>

You have a very good point why they show more "balance". Even Caucescu did as he was being paid by Israel to let Jews leave. Where in Romania are you originally from? Mt grandmother was from Botosani in Moldavia.

My mother lived in Bucharest from 1938 to 1940 before going to Israel (then Palestine).

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>yet, the world today seems as complacent today, about the slaughter of Jews, as they did then.>>

Well said and they actually encourage it by supporting Arafat etc.

Well said, as well, it makes me sick, literally, when hearing these wankers spouting platitudes and lies about the the legitmacy of the PA, Arafat, and their scumbag followers. Especially, the media, and some of the western-democracys' leadership! Yuck!
I know what you mean about memorising dates... though, my brain is a tad older, now, and it's hard enough to recall yesterday! Cheers! :D

[Semsem]

>>know what you mean about memorising dates... though, my brain is a tad older, now, and it's hard enough to recall yesterday! Cheers! <<

The only dates regarding British History and wars I still remember are the Battle of Hastings: 1066 and the year Queen Victoria died: 1901.

I think the Armada (sea battle against Spain) was 1588. The Battle of Waterloo was 1806????????????????????/

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>That is the ONLY reason why they are pro Israeli and pro American relative to all other nations of Eurpe.>>

You have a very good point why they show more "balance". Even Caucescu did as he was being paid by Israel to let Jews leave. Where in Romania are you originally from? Mt grandmother was from Botosani in Moldavia.

My mother lived in Bucharest from 1938 to 1940 before going to Israel (then Palestine).

From my father side, I originate from Bokovina region, from the town of Radautz. Following a post war pogrom, my grandfather and his surviving family, escaped to Israel in 1949. From my mother side, I have roots in Translivania, near the city of Oradia and the City of Timishuara (Temeshvar). Beyoned that, my grandmother had roots in Satmer. After sitting in jail for "zionism", his ransom was paid by the Zionist agentcy and he was allowed to do Aliya to Israel in 1960.

[Semsem]

>>From my father side, I originate from Bokovina region, >>

My grandfather was also from Bukovina; from a place next to Czernovitz but he went to Vienna in 1914 and it became Romania in 1918. The Jews from Bukovina tended to speak German then as it was Austria from about 1750 to 1918.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>From my father side, I originate from Bokovina region, >>

My grandfather was also from Bukovina; from a place next to Czernovitz but he went to Vienna in 1914 and it became Romania in 1918. The Jews from Bukovina tended to speak German then as it was Austria from about 1750 to 1918.

My father side, is fluent in German with unique accent. My aunt is a Chernovitzer.

[Semsem]

>>My father side, is fluent in German with unique accent. My aunt is a Chernovitzer.>.

That's funny. My grandfather was born in Bojan 40 kms from Czernovitz and moved there. My aunt was born in Czernovitz. They had a German name.

I read that most Jews from there fled originally from the Cossaks in Russia. Bukovina was Turkish before it became Austria around 1750, which surprised me.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
>>My father side, is fluent in German with unique accent. My aunt is a Chernovitzer.>.

That's funny. My grandfather was born in Bojan 40 kms from Czernovitz and moved there. My aunt was born in Czernovitz. They had a German name.

I read that most Jews from there fled originally from the Cossaks in Russia. Bukovina was Turkish before it became Austria around 1750, which surprised me.

I am finding this facinating, please keep the dialogue going, thanks; as it's extremely interesting.

[Semsem]

[please keep the dialogue going,>>

Richard, Bukovina belonged to many different countries:

Before 1750 it was part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire; that explains why so many Russian Jews fled there from the Cossaks, as the Turks were tolerant. There was a very bad Cossack leader and I forget his name.


In 1750 it became part of the Austrian Hungarian Empire. The Jews were what I understand, well treated and felt very Austrian. They spoke German, went to German schools and had German names. Czernovitz was the capital and it was a "small Vienna."

1914, my grandfather was drafted into the Austrian Army. like everybody else. He purposefully put his foot on a hot horseshoe to avoid the draft. So they made him a "messanger" and moved him to Vienna. All he did was take information from Vienna to the front. So many died in WW 1 in the trenches.

1918 Austria lost the war and Bukovina became Romania. So he stayed in Vienna as he considered himself Austrian.

1941 USSR took over Bukovina. I think it also for a while was occupied by the Germans and Romanian Fascist regime. Most Jews in Czernovitz / Bukovina were murdered. Very few survived.

Early 1990s Bukovina became Ukraine.

It's unbelievable how this small area was part of so many countries.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
[please keep the dialogue going,>>

Richard, Bukovina belonged to many different countries:

Before 1750 it was part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire; that explains why so many Russian Jews fled there from the Cossaks, as the Turks were tolerant. There was a very bad Cossack leader and I forget his name.


In 1750 it became part of the Austrian Hungarian Empire. The Jews were what I understand, well treated and felt very Austrian. They spoke German, went to German schools and had German names. Czernovitz was the capital and it was a "small Vienna."

1914, my grandfather was drafted into the Austrian Army. like everybody else. He purposefully put his foot on a hot horseshoe to avoid the draft. So they made him a "messanger" and moved him to Vienna. All he did was take information from Vienna to the front. So many died in WW 1 in the trenches.

1918 Austria lost the war and Bukovina became Romania. So he stayed in Vienna as he considered himself Austrian.

1941 USSR took over Bukovina. I think it also for a while was occupied by the Germans and Romanian Fascist regime. Most Jews in Czernovitz / Bukovina were murdered. Very few survived.

Early 1990s Bukovina became Ukraine.

It's unbelievable how this small area was part of so many countries.

Semsem, thanks, I know some of the history; moreover, I find it facinating reading or hearing it from folks such as you and others. Too often in the western schools, Eastern-European history, if broached, is a mere footnote. Yet, so much of our history is linked to it. we may curse the days of memorising dates of historical events; however, today, students are taught very little history. And, when by chance they do, it has been sterilized, or fertilised by those with a politically correct agenda.
When I read what you are saying about your grandfather's life, I know it is, the way it was; and not the spinning of some historian hack composing a history lesson. Merci!

[Semsem]

I met someone who was from Belarus originally. I know little about that region so I researched the Jews from Belarus. It was so alien to me and I learnt a lot. Very confusing too as these areas belonged to many different countries throughout the ages.

Most of the European Jews lived in the same area running from Poland south to Belarus, Ukraine and to Romania. I think they called it the Pale or something.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
I met someone who was from Belarus originally. I know little about that region so I researched the Jews from Belarus. It was so alien to me and I learnt a lot. Very confusing too as these areas belonged to many different countries throughout the ages.

Most of the European Jews lived in the same area running from Poland south to Belarus, Ukraine and to Romania. I think they called it the Pale or something.

Semsem, here is a site, you may find of interest, I had it in a folder. Although, you may have already seen it, but what the heck...

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/

Cheers!

[Semsem]

Very interesting web site. Thank you. Noticed a pamphlet on the web site from Odessa written in German in the 1880s. Maybe Odessa was also part of Austria; not sure. But the Jews in that area had a strong German / Austrian influence.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Semsem
Very interesting web site. Thank you. Noticed a pamphlet on the web site from Odessa written in German in the 1880s. Maybe Odessa was also part of Austria; not sure. But the Jews in that area had a strong German / Austrian influence.

You're welcome, I, too, must go back to the site... cheers!

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
[i]France: Preaching for the Enemy (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13715)

By Olivier Guitta
I just realized this guy's first name! :eek: