I'm a bit confused....

[Alfred]

Let me see if I understand things.

The following vocally support Kerry:

1. Anti-semitic Arabs
2. Anti-semitic Europeans
3. Anti-semitic UN
4. Pro-Arab Liberal elite in the US
5. Pro-Arab Hollywood
6. Pro-Arab mainstream media
7. Anti-semitic Islamic terrorist groups
8. Pro-Arab American Muslims
9. Pro-Arab American Blacks
10. 'People' who would kill you for being Jewish or Christian

The following vocally support Bush:

1. Pro-Israel American Christians
2. Pro-Israel American Conservatives
3. Pro-Israel American "moderates"
4. "Freedom of religion for Christian, Muslim and Jew" Americans
5. The American military community

Let's see where the Pro-Israeli American Jewish community sits as a whole.

Pro Kerry.

How about most of the dual-citizenship Jews living in Israel and voting in American elections (as a whole)

Pro Kerry.

Hmmm, who ever said that the Jews were the smartest people on earth. :)

[drexpert]

I appreciated your post until I got to your last comment...

"Hmmm, who ever said that the Jews were the smartest people on earth."

We Jews get this kind of language from Antisemites all day, every day. If you are trying to win friends and influence Jews, you need a lot more practice!

As a Jew, I feel that Bush is a better choice than Kerry, but I truly beleive that neither one of these candidates will take America in the direction we need to go, I wish there was another choice.

Jeffrey

[Ahava]

I agree with drexpert, the comment is not so Jew-friendly.
Just because many Jews are liberals (whom you hate, I know) doesn't mean they're stupid. They just have different political viewpoints than you, doesn't mean they deserve the condescending tone of yours.

[KSO]

I agree with drexpert, the comment is not so Jew-friendly.
Just because many Jews are liberals (whom you hate, I know) doesn't mean they're stupid. They just have different political viewpoints than you, doesn't mean they deserve the condescending tone of yours.

Yes they will suffer in Hell for eternity in the ever after.

[Alfred]

I agree with drexpert, the comment is not so Jew-friendly.
Just because many Jews are liberals (whom you hate, I know) doesn't mean they're stupid. They just have different political viewpoints than you, doesn't mean they deserve the condescending tone of yours.


When you see stupidity in action you sometimes have to be blunt to make people see what is happening.

Adults should be able to understand my point....liberals probably won't :)

[David_in_NYC]

It's a fair comment. It is rather paradoxical that so many Jews in the USA support the anti-semitic party. George Bush is so much better for Jews than the fascist Democrats, there's no comparison whatsoever. On the most basic level, Bush = pro freedom of religion, Democrats = hate God and any mention of Him, any place any time.

But it starts to make more sense when you realize that a large proportion of Jews in the US aren't religious at all, but are entirely secular (many to the point of being self-declared atheists, as atheism is in fashion in left-wing circles). Furthermore, they are so far removed from any actual Jewish education or experience that they don't even recognize the clear warning signs from the Democrats - group identity politics, gun control, anti-God campaigns, militant homosexuality, euthanasia and abortion, socialism, and so on.

[KSO]

I they are so far removed from any actual Jewish education or experience that they don't even recognize the clear warning signs from the Democrats - group identity politics, gun control, anti-God campaigns, militant homosexuality, euthanasia and abortion, socialism, and so on.

Thank you for reminding me that I am supporting the right people.

[I am David]

It's a fair comment. It is rather paradoxical that so many Jews in the USA support the anti-semitic party. George Bush is so much better for Jews than the fascist Democrats, there's no comparison whatsoever. On the most basic level, Bush = pro freedom of religion, Democrats = hate God and any mention of Him, any place any time.

But it starts to make more sense when you realize that a large proportion of Jews in the US aren't religious at all, but are entirely secular (many to the point of being self-declared atheists, as atheism is in fashion in left-wing circles). Furthermore, they are so far removed from any actual Jewish education or experience that they don't even recognize the clear warning signs from the Democrats - group identity politics, gun control, anti-God campaigns, militant homosexuality, euthanasia and abortion, socialism, and so on.


Heh, the phrases "fascist Democrats" and "militant homosexuality" in your post is all I need to see to know where you're coming from.

[I am David]

Now back on topic. It's a pretty stereotypical assumption that all the anti-Semites and terrorist apologists support John Kerry. But you must ask this:

1. Why do you trust their judgement? If they are so illogical as to be inhumane and racist then why would you trust their judgement on complex political issues.

2. What about all the good/smart people who aprove of him? 48 Nobel Prize Winning Scientists endorse and support Kerry, Police and teachers unions, most of the intelligent American Jews, Republican Lee Iacocca of Chrysler, the list goes on.

3. Where is the evidence to support that these bad groups support Kerry anyway?

Now, here's a hint for question #1: The reason why some of these very unlikeable groups support Kerry is simple; It is the stereotypical viewpoint that Bush is completely the "anti-terror" candiate whereas Kerry is the one soft on terror. Thus, these racists and terrorist supporters, being not very intelligent, take this stereotypical viewpoint for granted and don't question it or look into it intelligently. Thus, they come to the conclusion that someone like Kerry is another terrorist apologist like the European Liberals, so they support him because they think he agrees with them, whereas the truth is very far from that.

[Ahava]

Furthermore, they are so far removed from any actual Jewish education or experience that they don't even recognize the clear warning signs from the Democrats - group identity politics, gun control, anti-God campaigns, militant homosexuality, euthanasia and abortion, socialism, and so on.

:eek: :mad:
"Militant homosexuality", what's that? KSO had a point with his remark that a society free of secularism doesn't necessarily mean it's good, on the contrary. Religion should be a personal matter anyway, not some state institutionalized thing. There are good atheists as well as bad religious people, I don't have to tell you that, right? The ME is full of them.

[David_in_NYC]

:eek: :mad:
"Militant homosexuality", what's that?

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/lively.html

It was the start of Hitler's brownshirts, and it is likewise at the forefront of Political Correctness today. Bet you didn't know that the core group that brought Hitler to power were largely militant, flagrant homosexuals, well-known for public deviance and perversity?

It's amazing how different the real history is, when compared to the politically correct myths that have been perpetuated since.

[Ahava]

http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/lively.html

It was the start of Hitler's brownshirts, and it is likewise at the forefront of Political Correctness today. Bet you didn't know that the core group that brought Hitler to power were largely militant, flagrant homosexuals, well-known for public deviance and perversity?

It's amazing how different the real history is, when compared to the politically correct myths that have been perpetuated since.

When homosexuals display the pink triangle, they are equating all opposition to homosexuality with Nazism and themselves with the Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

How so? They just took it up as their symbol, I personally have never met a homosexual who makes those comparisons or references.

Sorry, I stopped reading the article at the point where it denies the existence of real homosexuality.

[Alfred]

Why is it when anyone speaks of Kerry, the issue of homosexuals comes up? Hmmmm. I have been noticing that Kerry and Edwards are VERY touchy-feely. They can't keep their hands off of each other. But Edwards has nothing to fear from Kerry....he doesn't have nearly as much money as Ms. Heinz.

On another note.

My nephew is getting his PhD at a well-known University with a focus on Middle East Studies. He learned Arabic in Israel and Egypt, and studied Hebrew at the Univ. of Utah.

I asked him if his professors (hard core liberals) were merely Pro-Arab or actually Anti-Semitic. He said more anti-semitic than purely pro-Arab. This was interesting, as the liberal movement in America is of mostly Jewish origin. He said the leftist professors felt that the Jews (Israel) had betrayed their liberalism by their occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians. I guess the conclusion was that they were phoney liberals. The other reason for their new hate for Jews/Israel was that Israel was flouting the rule of UN law and not obeying the world government....they were being uppity.

So, while I AM DAVID says that "most of the intelligent Jews" support Kerry. I am arguing that I would not call them intelligent. There has to be some deep suicidal tendency to vote for someone who hates you, who is the party of most of your enemies and wants to remove your only true homeland from the earth.

But then, I am not Dr. Freud. I am sure I AM DAVID can explain it and I await his theories.

My theory is that most "intelligent Jews" care more about their religion (international socialism, secular humanism) than they do the State of Israel or the rights of the religious Jews in the world. After all, religious Jews are a bit of an embarassment aren't they I AM David?

[David_in_NYC]

Nah, religious Jews are just cannon fodder to appease the Islamic beast, so that the secular Jews in France and elsewhere can live a few brief moments longer.

[NewsGuy]

Pro Kerry.

Most Jews I know realize that Kerry stated that his goal is to win favor in the Arab world and France.

Even though Bush's support for a Palestinian state is troubling, Bush is by far the better of the two candidates.

The Jewish community is not solidly Democrat any more. After all, we neocons who are actively engaged in control of the media and world domination usually vote Republican. :D

[Alfred]

After all, we neocons who are actively engaged in control of the media and world domination usually vote Republican. :D


Aha! He finally admits it. I AM DAVID will use this admission on all of his future posts.

:)

[Ahava]

Aha! He finally admits it. I AM DAVID will use this admission on all of his future posts.

:)

I thought "we Jews" controlled the media and the world. :(

[I am David]

Aha! He finally admits it. I AM DAVID will use this admission on all of his future posts.

:)
Remind me when I do :)

[wellofvow]

My nephew is getting his PhD at a well-known University with a focus on Middle East Studies. He learned Arabic in Israel and Egypt, and studied Hebrew at the Univ. of Utah.

I asked him if his professors (hard core liberals) were merely Pro-Arab or actually Anti-Semitic. He said more anti-semitic than purely pro-Arab. This was interesting, as the liberal movement in America is of mostly Jewish origin. He said the leftist professors felt that the Jews (Israel) had betrayed their liberalism by their occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians. I guess the conclusion was that they were phoney liberals. The other reason for their new hate for Jews/Israel was that Israel was flouting the rule of UN law and not obeying the world government....they were being uppity.

So, while I AM DAVID says that "most of the intelligent Jews" support Kerry. I am arguing that I would not call them intelligent. There has to be some deep suicidal tendency to vote for someone who hates you, who is the party of most of your enemies and wants to remove your only true homeland from the earth.



OK, hold on fellas. The primary error of American "liberals" is to insist that "liberalism" is identical no matter where you are.

I want everyone to think about the word "beauty". What the average American would think of as a beautiful woman would be absolutely completely different from what the average African tribesman would.

Some American Jews think of themselves as being "observant" if they go to services on Yom Kippur, even though they will put up a Christmas tree.

Obviously, I could go on indefinitely, but I hope that just these two observations will show the direction of my argument.

Alfred, it is faulty thinking leading to erroneous conclusion on the part of American "liberals" to decide that Israeli Jews have "betrayed their liberalism by their occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians" and that Israelis are "phoney liberals". This is like defining African "beauty" with the American guidelines. Israeli liberalism and American liberalism is chalk and cheese, apples and oranges, whatever.

Besides, that first bit about Israel allegedly betraying our liberalism is a joke. We have rabid anti-Israel Arabs in our Knesset - when did America put a Communist in the Senate? "Subjugation of Palestinians" is typical pro-Arab propaganda rhetoric, and it is pathetic that academics swallow this line, parrot it, and treat it as if a fact.

As far as the start of this thread - the book that supposedly proves that homosexuals put Hitler into power, the author's arguments are pretty thin. Points expressed by published historians leave me pretty cold, since they are the opinions of the individual authors, not engraved in stone.

Kerry acts like a weathervane, and certainly will not get my vote. He seems to agree with the largest block he feels will give him a vote. Example: At a time when anyone who did not want to go to Vietnam could easily find a way out (and this was my peer group), Kerry served. He became anti-war when he saw how unpopular it was. So this guy has been a weathervane most of his life. This is NOT encouraging.

Like Alfred, I am also confused by American Jews who cannot get out of the knee-jerk reflex of automatically voting "liberal". Perhaps it is the old deep-seated fears of rocking the boat, angering the anti-Semites, bringing out the charge of divided loyalties of American Jews between America and Israel? Hey, Pollard is still rotting in jail. I have to look up how long Dreyfus was stuck on Devil's Island before a NON-Jew made a scandal......

[wellofvow]

I see that Alfred Dreyfus was deported to Devil's Island in January 1895, and was exonerated after Emile Zola's "J'Accuse" in July 1906.

Pollard has been in solitary for twice as long at least, right?

[Oh Jerusalem]

When you see stupidity in action you sometimes have to be blunt to make people see what is happening.

Adults should be able to understand my point....liberals probably won't :)
I agree.

Stupid Jews. :o

[Alfred]

Alfred, it is faulty thinking leading to erroneous conclusion on the part of American "liberals" to decide that Israeli Jews have "betrayed their liberalism by their occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians" and that Israelis are "phoney liberals"

I would NEVER accuse Liberal college professors of coherent thinking. Their teaching too often reflects their life experience.....high school, daddy paying for college, summer Viet Nam war protests, draft deferments, graduate school, finding themself after spending tens of thousands of daddy's dollars, getting their first real job (assistant professor), then teaching our children stupid theories.

Like Alfred, I am also confused by American Jews who cannot get out of the knee-jerk reflex of automatically voting "liberal".

Religion is more important that Israel. The religion just happens to not be Judaism, but Liberalism.


I agree.

Stupid Jews.

Just the ones who are voting for the party that detests them and loves their enemies. I can think of nothing more stupid....other than Palm Beach voters.

[wellofvow]

I would NEVER accuse Liberal college professors of coherent thinking. Their teaching too often reflects their life experience.....high school, daddy paying for college, summer Viet Nam war protests, draft deferments, graduate school, finding themself after spending tens of thousands of daddy's dollars, getting their first real job (assistant professor), then teaching our children stupid theories.

Thanks for your making me laugh. I oh-so agree.

On the other hand, I am disappointed when one of my kids, otherwise a very intelligent guy, takes as THE true truth whatever his army commanders, university instructors, or bosses have to say about politics. Mom can't possibly have a valid argument since I am only his mom. "Adult" kids are the pits sometimes. I keep waiting for them to really grow up.

[Mediocrates]

I for the life of me can't understand why middle and lower middle class White Southerners consistantly vote in favor of imaginary tax cuts they know they will never be entitled to. I can't understand why those same people made such a fuss over the estate tax given that it only applies to about 4% of the population and nearly 0% of White Christian suburbanites who made it out to be a lightening rod of an issue.

People vote as a reflection of their hopes and values, don't they? and not so much as a rational act.

[wellofvow]

I for the life of me can't understand why middle and lower middle class White Southerners consistantly vote in favor of imaginary tax cuts they know they will never be entitled to. I can't understand why those same people made such a fuss over the estate tax given that it only applies to about 4% of the population and nearly 0% of White Christian suburbanites who made it out to be a lightening rod of an issue.

People vote as a reflection of their hopes and values, don't they? and not so much as a rational act.

Absolutely.

But....

It's the manipulation that really, really bothers me. Especially the manipulation of the media.