After Bush Gets reelected Iran is next Target.

[Macc]

I believe Iran will be next target on the war on terror after our benevolent Dictator err I mean Democratically elected President Bush gets realected.

I hope the Jews in Israel join in on the fight as well, we would appreciate their military support. So how about it Jews, you can have all the land west of the Tigris and we will occupy everyhting west of the Euphrates. :D

[Mediocrates]

What do you think they hope to accomplish? Iran is 3 times the size of Iraq.

[KettleWhistle]

I believe Iran will be next target on the war on terror after our benevolent Dictator err I mean Democratically elected President Bush gets realected.

I hope the Jews in Israel join in on the fight as well, we would appreciate their military support. So how about it Jews, you can have all the land west of the Tigris and we will occupy everyhting west of the Euphrates. :D
Why would we, Jews want that territory? Most of it is not Eretz Israel.

[Macc]

"What do you think they hope to accomplish? Iran is 3 times the size of Iraq."

Iran is not Russia, you can drive across Iran in 1 day gimme a break. We need to overthrow that Government, and stop Iran from supporting the Terrorists. Iran has publicly stated that once they acquire nuclear weapons Jews and Christians would be in big trouble.

Iran does have an Army but it's not as Technologically advanced as US or Israel. We could obliterate that country without even invading that country with troops.

[Mediocrates]

I'm looking at a hundred billion dollar cost and every active soldier in the armed forces to 'transform' Iraq of 22 million people. For Iran with 70 million people the problem has to be absurdly huge. That is unless you're talking about something else.

[Mediocrates]

I think our takeo is 180 degrees wrong on 'most' Iranians detest the regime and will willingly help topple them. If anything they have more to defend then the Iraqis.

[Macc]

We can use our advanced weapon systems to crush their military, it would take months of constant bombings but that would help and meanwhile we can give weapons and support to the Iranian opposition.

It worked in Afghanistan.

[Revkha]

We can use our advanced weapon systems to crush their military, it would take months of constant bombings but that would help and meanwhile we can give weapons and support to the Iranian opposition.

It worked in Afghanistan.

Oh yes - Afghanistan is a model of democracy!!! Where is the American manpower and money coming from to crush Iranian military? - we can always call up those retired soldiers who are in their 60's-70's. The military is scrambling to find enough money to survive until the fiscal year ends. An article today indicates the troops are running low on ammunition. Iran needs to be crushed but until we can stablize Afghanistan and Iraq - it is a no-brainer. Perhaps if more of us volunteered for service in the military then we can accomplish this goal. And how do you defeat centuries of tribalism that is so ingrained in these societies. Probably more women are veiled in Iraq today than were under Saddam Hussein. Words come easy but in reality it does always work.

[Isiah 2:4]

The most they should do is encourage a secular revolution, or drop EMP bombs over Tehran. It'll throw the country into chaos. If the Ayatollahs don't step down, do it again until they do.

However, attacking Iran would bring about severe consequences, e.g dirty bomb attacks in the Middle East, Europe, Russia or America, or even a nuclear strike against Israel, which if the Iranians can't do, the Pakistani's would do for them. Then it wouldn't take half an hour before we see a Nuclear Armageddon.

[medkorp]

Hi,

We can use our advanced weapon systems to crush their military, it would take months of constant bombings but that would help and meanwhile we can give weapons and support to the Iranian opposition.

Even with an advanced weapons systems to crush them, if you want to change them, you must be in the state, not 2,000 miles away !

So, even if america has advanced weapons system, a great number of GI must be send in place...

And remember there's 70 millions people !


It worked in Afghanistan.

Iran situation and Afghanistan situation are not the same !

Afghanistan was attacked by the Russians and america supported Massoud and his soldiers ! But now you plan to invade or to attack another state, as usual because you don't like this state !

So no, it wasn't the same thing !

Medkorp

[Mediocrates]

You've exceeded your exclamation point quota. You planned on 2180, it was a good guess, but now you owe us $147.

[Roland]

Only in your dreams.
Iran is completetly different from Afghanistan or Iraq.
Look at your maps: Iraq it flat as a pancake. That is good for tank-columns. It is oasis if you find a plant. Otherwise open desert territory. Tank-land.
Remember the fast progress of US-troops on their way to bagdad.
No reason to keep changing your altitude if you are sitting in an apache combat helicopter - means low fuel consumption - the apaches are hefty gas-guzzlers. Their effective range would be awfully limited in Irans huge extended mountain territory.
Mountains are excellent for hiding ... lets say 5 million angry surprisingly well armed enemies from infidel invaders. Afghanistan and Pakistan are good examples for that.
Iran is huge - okay it's not USA but don't underestimate it, I'd like to watch you crossing it in your car!
BTW: You can drive across Germany north-south (app. 900 km) in 7 or so hours. I use to do that trip once or twice every year.
But we have the only roads worldwide where you can drive REALLY fast.
Fast enough to do that trip. And I assure you, that's quite exhausting.
No enemies but police patrols and rush-hour traffic. No narrow Mountain-passages. No rain-soaked mud-roads. Fuel always available max every 20 km in constant perfect quality (um ... 1.18 Euro per liter, some 1.2 US-Dollar per quarter-gallon - but that's one of the reasons to grab Iran anyway...).
No matter if Bush or Kerry. The US put much money into the Iraq adventure.
Is there enough left for a bigger and better prepared Iran?
I bet they did everything to make an Iraq-style Invasion very, very costly.
The outcome in Iraq is not over. The outcome in Afghanistan is not over.
Another adventure like this? Never.

[rhodescholar]

Only in your dreams.
Iran is completetly different from Afghanistan or Iraq.
No matter if Bush or Kerry. The US put much money into the Iraq adventure.
Is there enough left for a bigger and better prepared Iran?
I bet they did everything to make an Iraq-style Invasion very, very costly.
The outcome in Iraq is not over. The outcome in Afghanistan is not over.
Another adventure like this? Never.

There are 2 objectives to accomplish here, both of which you missed.

1-remove the clerics from power. this is not too difficult as they dont hide in the country.

2-remove the nuclear plants. This would be harder since some are underground and others may not be known to the west.

Israel would need to coordinate an attack against southern lebanon to deal with the inevitablehezbollah attack. The second word got out that the US invaded iran, the animals in hezbollah would no doubt begin launching rockets from the north. A massive counterstrike would deal with this, but the US would need to corrdinate it with israel.

As for pakistan doing much of anything, dont count on it - they need uncle sam's money too much.

What would be difficult is dealing with the imported palestinian thug/vigilantes who form the core of the security guards defending the regime. The regime uses them regularly to put down democracy rallies. They would need to be killed and it would turn into another baghdad/fallujah type urban conflict. Bu the need to remove this heinous regime outweighs the costs by far.

[Hisardut]

just destroy every single nuclear plant and as much military as we can, then do the same thing to iran as NK, embargo.

[Semsem]

<<I hope the Jews in Israel join in on the fight as well, we would appreciate their military support. So how about it Jews, you can have all the land west of the Tigris and we will occupy everyhting west of the Euphrates. :D[/QUOTE]


we don't want the land. Just bomb the nuclear reactors.

[CanDo]

I think that the civilized world missed it's chance to turn Iran into a demcracy.

Prior to 2004, the reform movement had control over Iran's parliament. If the world had "taken out" the criminally insane hard-line rulers, with some well-placed bunker-busters, the reformers might have been able to take over. We might not have needed on American soldier on Iranian soil to do this.

But, alas, the reformers have lost the elections this year, and Iran's parliament is now also hard-line. It still might be worth it to target a meeting of Iran's top hard-line rulers, and take them all out.

We would then call the newswire services and claim responsiblity for the attack under the name of Hezbollah, so that they would be blamed for the attack.

[Gilgamesh]

I believe Iran will be next target on the war on terror after our benevolent Dictator err I mean Democratically elected President Bush gets realected.

I hope the Jews in Israel join in on the fight as well, we would appreciate their military support. So how about it Jews, you can have all the land west of the Tigris and we will occupy everyhting west of the Euphrates. :D

Too good to be true. That's what I say.

The best scenario is co-ordinated assult, on both Syria and Iran, from two fronts each. Iran get compressed from Iraq and Afganistan with many thousands of Iraqi and Afgani soldiers lead the way. While Israel pounds Syria from the air and tank columns move in three iron fists into Syria... one along the Lebanon coast toward Beirut, one along the Lebaneses border with Syria to caputre the Syrian in Lebanon, and the theired through the Golan Hieghts into Damascuss.

France offers to send troops to help the Syrians... only by the time the UN resolution is approved, Syrian surrender with no conditions. The French Army surrender in first sight of our soldiers with no one single shot fired.

American paratroopers, clear the desert bordering with Syria and Iraq for all hostiles.

Hizzballa is smashed, Lebanon is a Christian autonomy within Israel, Syria is reduced in favour of Israel, Turkey and Iraq. Jorden and Iraq willing to accept "Palestinian" refugees.

At the very same time, Iran is boxed from two sides by coalition forces. American air force and commando and hired Afgan and Iraqi gournd troopers march through Iranian lines and liberate Iranian cities, already taken over by local anti clerical, pro Western militias. Cities that resist, bombed to dust. Within a week, the Iranian Army surreder and changes sides, the Iranian Ayattulas return to Paris, again, where they first came from.

New evidances found in Iranian ministaries archives, prove beyonned any doubt the collaboration of the French and Germans with the Iranians in undermining UN decistions both countries are signed of, and their involvement in producing WMD with the declared intention to genocide all Jews.

The region is stabilized along new borders (some regions of Afganistan were Shiai live, move to new Iran, togahter with couple of persian speaking former Soviet republics. Israeli mulitinational corporations create jobs and wealth by investments all over the region. Peace at last.

Next in the list Egypt. Reason: Gay rights abuse. Gay of the world are recruited to the most humanitarian and most Feman army the world ever seen to liberate their Gay brothers rotting in Egyption Jails.

Following the Gay revolution, many Arab come out of the closet. Child industrial production all over the Arab world, fall dramaticly.

[rhodescholar]

Too good to be true. That's what I say.

The best scenario is co-ordinated assult, on both Syria and Iran, from two fronts each. Iran get compressed from Iraq and Afganistan with many thousands of Iraqi and Afgani soldiers lead the way. While Israel pounds Syria from the air and tank columns move in three iron fists into Syria... one along the Lebanon coast toward Beirut, one along the Lebaneses border with Syria to caputre the Syrian in Lebanon, and the theired through the Golan Hieghts into Damascuss.

France offers to send troops to help the Syrians... only by the time the UN resolution is approved, Syrian surrender with no conditions. The French Army surrender in first sight of our soldiers with no one single shot fired.

American paratroopers, clear the desert bordering with Syria and Iraq for all hostiles.

Hizzballa is smashed, Lebanon is a Christian autonomy within Israel, Syria is reduced in favour of Israel, Turkey and Iraq. Jorden and Iraq willing to accept "Palestinian" refugees.

At the very same time, Iran is boxed from two sides by coalition forces. American air force and commando and hired Afgan and Iraqi gournd troopers march through Iranian lines and liberate Iranian cities, already taken over by local anti clerical, pro Western militias. Cities that resist, bombed to dust. Within a week, the Iranian Army surreder and changes sides, the Iranian Ayattulas return to Paris, again, where they first came from.

New evidances found in Iranian ministaries archives, prove beyonned any doubt the collaboration of the French and Germans with the Iranians in undermining UN decistions both countries are signed of, and their involvement in producing WMD with the declared intention to genocide all Jews.

The region is stabilized along new borders (some regions of Afganistan were Shiai live, move to new Iran, togahter with couple of persian speaking former Soviet republics. Israeli mulitinational corporations create jobs and wealth by investments all over the region. Peace at last.

Next in the list Egypt. Reason: Gay rights abuse. Gay of the world are recruited to the most humanitarian and most Feman army the world ever seen to liberate their Gay brothers rotting in Egyption Jails.

Following the Gay revolution, many Arab come out of the closet. Child industrial production all over the Arab world, fall dramaticly.

But wouldnt all this inflame the arab street?

[Gilgamesh]

But wouldnt all this inflame the arab street?

Which part? And inflamed street, would be, good or bad?
I think I'd inflame the French street. Let the Arab street burn. I don't care.

[rhodescholar]

Which part? And inflamed street, would be, good or bad?
I think I'd inflame the French street. Let the Arab street burn. I don't care.

I guess my sarcasm didnt come across in your native Ivrit ;)

My joke was that practically every time someone in israel - or the Western countries - flushes a toilet even thinking about the arab muslims - the breathless idiots who pass for journalists these days scream "but that might enrage the arab street."

We all heard that before the iraq war started, and about 100 things, but it never seems to pass.

[Gilgamesh]

I guess my sarcasm didnt come across in your native Ivrit ;)

My joke was that practically every time someone in israel - or the Western countries - flushes a toilet even thinking about the arab muslims - the breathless idiots who pass for journalists these days scream "but that might enrage the arab street."

We all heard that before the iraq war started, and about 100 things, but it never seems to pass.

Sorry, I wasn't sure, if you're kidding or not. I was in a stamp'pee mode (I hope I spelled that right). Crushing anything in my sights without much thought.

[Oh Jerusalem]

I was in a stamp'pee mode (I hope I spelled that right).
Jumping up and down in place while urinating? :eek:

Or did you mean "stampede"?

[Gilgamesh]

Jumping up and down in place while urinating? :eek:

Or did you mean "stampede"? ROFL!!!! The other one, I ment stampede.

[Roland]

There are 2 objectives to accomplish here, both of which you missed.

1-remove the clerics from power. this is not too difficult as they dont hide in the country.

2-remove the nuclear plants. This would be harder since some are underground and others may not be known to the west.
You are right. I didn't even mention any objectives. But I tried to point out, that the idea of an iraq-style-invasion to Iran is completely nuts.
1: Any cleric I could ever imagine would be out of sight like rabbits, the second you position your troops along Iran beaches. I'd hide then, too.
Iran has no Saddam-like symbolic sole dictat. Forgive my lack of knowlegde about Irans domestic politics but I guess the supreme Ayatollah has a buch of second best would-be-successors. Killing one won't be enough. Killing them all would force you to care for 70 million people who probably won't even have left police-forces anymore after you have broken the last cell of resistance in the most remote valley. And surely the Iranians - like the Iraquis - would not give you welcome-parties.
2: You said it youself: "harder", "not known".
A liar can't be trusted. Every time the US-president would claim to have proof of another nuclear site, he'd be called a liar. "Sexed-up reports", "Outright lies", "Another grab for oil".
What kind of success was the Iraq-campaingn?
Saddam is gone. Good thing. Saddams armed forces are gone. The iraq people's money is gone.
A military victory. Good for the US-military and US military equipment producers. No WMD were found.
Many people died. Soldiers and civilians. And is Iraq pacified, yet? Are there less attacks on US-forces than before the war in the "no-fly-zones"?
The pro-war-argumentation was based on lies.
Another war began with lies, too: "Seit 5.45 Uhr wird zurückgeschossen!"
Afghanistan still can't be left alone. Still no trace of Osama bin Laden. Somalia isn't mentioned in the news at all, anymore. Sudan hasn' got any oil, has it? Now you want another war in Iran.
There is another objective, not mentioned yet. Peace.

I think that the civilized world missed it's chance to turn Iran into a demcracy.
That is the most reasonable thing said here.

The "coalition" is pretty small. No help from Iraq's army. They are busy, Gil. What is the status of the afghan army? Did they ever cared for something outside of their territory? They are busy, too.

[John]

Iran has responded to regional and Israeli threats of attack by vowing to wipe Israel "off the face of the Earth" if it attacks the Islamic Republic's nuclear facilities. Would that threat deter Israel? Its the same rhetoric over and over again.

[rhodescholar]

[Roland]You are right. I didn't even mention any objectives. But I tried to point out, that the idea of an iraq-style-invasion to Iran is completely nuts.
1: Any cleric I could ever imagine would be out of sight like rabbits, the second you position your troops along Iran beaches. I'd hide then, too.

I disagree here. The iranians may not appreciate foreign troops on their soil, but they passionately hate the clerics. I see them being given up pretty quickly. Esp since there are many now disenfranchised clerics - who were part of the original revolution in 1979 but have since fallen from favor with the regime - that know who and where many of them are.

Iran has no Saddam-like symbolic sole dictat. Forgive my lack of knowlegde about Irans domestic politics but I guess the supreme Ayatollah has a buch of second best would-be-successors.

Khameneini doesnt. He is the supreme dictator, who along with the Guardian Council run the country by force.

A liar can't be trusted. Every time the US-president would claim to have proof of another nuclear site, he'd be called a liar. "Sexed-up reports", "Outright lies", "Another grab for oil".

The sexed up reports line vanished form the mouths of the BBC androids VERY quickly once they were exposed. Faulty intelligence? Perhaps. Outright lies? I dont think so.

What kind of success was the Iraq-campaingn?

Depends on who you ask. If you pose that question to those people still alive who saddam would have murdered by now, they would be very happy. If you ask the batthists who had illigitimately run the country, they would say no. If in 10-20 years the average iraqi has a decent job and family, then they would be happy as well.

Saddam is gone. Good thing. Saddams armed forces are gone. The iraq people's money is gone.

Into the hands of the UN, France, Germany, Russia and others.

A military victory. Good for the US-military and US military equipment producers. No WMD were found.

I will never be convinced that syria and others didnt get them trucked over before the war began.

Many people died. Soldiers and civilians. And is Iraq pacified, yet? Are there less attacks on US-forces than before the war in the "no-fly-zones"?

Just like in israel, the conflict is primarily being driven by outside forces, whether they be iranians or al qaeda, or both. There is an enormous need for continued conflict to serve the agendas of iran and the terrorists, so the violence will undoubtedly continue. But you are seeing finally the iraqi insurgents splitting from the animal terrorists who are suicide bombing children. I saw last week how the former baathists are threatening to kill foreign fighters.

The pro-war-argumentation was based on lies.

See above.

Another war began with lies, too: "Seit 5.45 Uhr wird zurückgeschossen!"
Afghanistan still can't be left alone. Still no trace of Osama bin Laden.

Afghanistan war was widely supported by most of the planet. If you are going to complain about the need for multi-lateral action, then afghan is prime example #1.

Somalia isn't mentioned in the news at all, anymore.

Blame your awful, leftwing european media for that.

Sudan hasn' got any oil, has it? Now you want another war in Iran.
There is another objective, not mentioned yet. Peace.

As i have said 100 times here, i would have attacked iran LONG before iraq. Iran has been conducting terrorist murders of women and children for decades. Their dues will be paid sooner or later.

[Mediocrates]

It's hard to tease out what this is about. Blaming for the US for what one person halfway hopes they might do in the future in order for them to feel smugly justified in criticizing it seems a waste of time. They should better take all that hot air and fly away in a balloon. If the all the US haters in the world want to make the world a better place for the suffering brown people in far off exotic places...well you know where the airport is. Have at it.

[Binyamin]

Just like in israel, the conflict is primarily being driven by outside forces, whether they be iranians or al qaeda, or both. There is an enormous need for continued conflict to serve the agendas of iran and the terrorists, so the violence will undoubtedly continue.Interesting point. If Iran gets invaded, there will not be any outsiders to support an insurgency, and we cannot really predict how they wil do on their own. It seems like alot of them would accept America, and many potential insurgents will lose any interest when there is no serious financial support.

I think that Iran should not be invaded, but its government, military, clergy, and infrastructure instalations should be bombed, a little at a time (except for the government). The goal should be as much as possible to eliminate or disable the current government, and to allow and strongly encourage a new democratic government. If the new people aren't any better, then the attacks will continue. Regime change without nation building.

Gil, I like your plan. You have it all worked out.

[rhodescholar]

Interesting point. If Iran gets invaded, there will not be any outsiders to support an insurgency, and we cannot really predict how they wil do on their own. It seems like alot of them would accept America, and many potential insurgents will lose any interest when there is no serious financial support.

I think that Iran should not be invaded, but its government, military, clergy, and infrastructure instalations should be bombed, a little at a time (except for the government). The goal should be as much as possible to eliminate or disable the current government, and to allow and strongly encourage a new democratic government. If the new people aren't any better, then the attacks will continue. Regime change without nation building.

Gil, I like your plan. You have it all worked out.

What i was referring to in israel is that if the conflict was simply between israelis and the west bank/gaza arabs, it would have been resolved long ago. The outside interests i was referring to include iran, syria and saudi arabia, who desperately need the conflict to justify their own existence, which in iran's case is their entire foreign policy (according to them).

The idea of nibbling at the regime wont work, as it would only stengthen the surviving hardliner regime remnants who would use the attacks as an excuse against the "occupying infidel" as a rallying point. The clerics must all be killed/arrested and removed from power at one time, in a single strike.

[Alfred]

The best part is the part about French soldiers surrendering to Israeli troops.

[Green]

Oh my god :eek:
you people are f'ing lunatics. Your rhetoric is just as insane as the fundamentalists your up against. what your suggesting wouldnt cure your problems it would cause far more with no end in sight.
BTW your out of your minds
crazy fools

[Gilgamesh]

Oh my god :eek:
you people are f'ing lunatics. Your rhetoric is just as insane as the fundamentalists your up against. what your suggesting wouldnt cure your problems it would cause far more with no end in sight.
BTW your out of your minds
crazy fools

Keep to your island Green, enjoy the isolation and stay out of things you know nothing about. It's a blessing, believe me. Wish I was you.

However, if you have questions, we would love to answer those for you. If you are all about preeching us leftist hypocritical propaganda... you'll bore us, and we ignore boring people. So, what you want to ask, ask! Just keep the rethorics for yourself.

[Gilgamesh]

I think that Iran should not be invaded, but its government, military, clergy, and infrastructure instalations should be bombed, a little at a time (except for the government). The goal should be as much as possible to eliminate or disable the current government, and to allow and strongly encourage a new democratic government. Not really, little bombing are similar to Israel's "signaling" bombings in Lebanon... just rocks and trees and nothing else. Too little bombings will only raley the people around the goverment. Also, little bombings will allow the Iranian goverment to react, hide, defend critical elemetns of the goverment, like communication, critical facilities, ect...

1. deStablized Iranian economy by bombing of oil facilities, or putting those out of use via sergical bombings. Same goes to port facilities, roads, rails and most importantly communication.

2. Work to liberat ethnic minorities within Iran, such as Azerians. These guys also have large oil fields in their territories.

3. Establish powerful information and psychological warfare channels. Para-dorp radio sets and leaflets, bypass the Ayattulas control over information.

4. Focus on bombing the police and Army. Weak the parties grip over the population and police.

Once you do that, Iran becomes lawless. The rest is up to the Iranians. to establish a new ragime.

The process will take several years to a decade, and might be stopped in the middle, with new agreements and new style of the old ragime.

Invasion is the only quick way forward. Topple the ragime and allow the creation of a saner democratic ragime.


If the new people aren't any better, then the attacks will continue. Regime change without nation building. Nation building is important. However, you should not copy and paste the same recapie from place to place. What was good for Japan is not fit to Iraq or Iran.

You must put majore responsibility on the liberated people. You can help them with removel of the older ragime, but you cannot write their constitution.


Gil, I like your plan. You have it all worked out. Oh, thanks!
Vote for me next time I'll run for primiership.

[Olivier]

Oh my god :eek:
you people are f'ing lunatics. Your rhetoric is just as insane as the fundamentalists your up against. what your suggesting wouldnt cure your problems it would cause far more with no end in sight.
BTW your out of your minds
crazy foolsnice you noticed :D

but don't give up.... people like them did enough damage already.

[medkorp]

Hi,

Israeli dreaming...

Medkorp

The best part is the part about French soldiers surrendering to Israeli troops.

[David_in_NYC]

Iran is completely different from Iraq in a much more substantial way... 90% of the people of Iran want to overthrow the mullahs, and a good portion of them actually have the guts to fight for their own freedom. Toppling the Iranian regime will look far more like the Afghan campaign than the Iraqi one, though there will no doubt be some differences and similarities with both.

[medkorp]

Hi,

Please could you tell me where you have found 90 % of Iranian want to topple their leaders ?

Have you seen the comeback of the conservative mollah in Iran ? Have you seen the Iranian preisdent Khatami lost of power ? Have you seen the last sentence in a Justice court in Iran ?

Medkorp

Iran is completely different from Iraq in a much more substantial way... 90% of the people of Iran want to overthrow the mullahs, and a good portion of them actually have the guts to fight for their own freedom. Toppling the Iranian regime will look far more like the Afghan campaign than the Iraqi one, though there will no doubt be some differences and similarities with both.