Manifesto : Une autre voix juive

[Olivier]

two threads of mine have been edited of late, apparently by a moderator




the titles that have been altered are
"the real cause of the death of Arafat"

as been changed to
"Politicizing the Yasser Arafat's cause of death; or, what we don't know can hurt you.
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=122881&postcount=70

I do not see what the added insinuation means... or what value added it brings




Bombing of French soldiers : Israelis involved

to

Bombing of French soldiers : Israelis involved, Satan unavailable for comment
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=122938&postcount=126
I had not into of putting any satanic reference in the discussion

Overall, the objective of this person is harassment.
Arbitrary harassment because he does not share my opinions. Why leave intact threads which are either pure provocation of plain false and modify titles respecting forum rule? Why choose to distord the name of the threads I started?

let's see one example on naming a thread :

France: we will use the UN-mandate to continue the occupation of the Ivory Coast => this is plain lie, no french declaration was made about "occupating ivory coast".

and guess what, the guy who created the thread has been promoted moderator ! Now he can toy with what I say in total impunity...

Now If you want to see delirant threads titles just browse the forum..



Now what should I do ?
- I have first protested to the forum owner (newsguy), who answered that moderators are fully allowed change thread titles. This practice is discretionary and completely arbitrary. Any moderator can change a thread name to what he wants. Just because he feels like it.

Ok, now what do I do ? I can either
=========================
solution #1 - accept that the thread I start have a title perverting what the idea I defend.

solution #2 - stop posting and conceide victory to the harasser. This will also overjoy all here that do not share my opinions.


Now although it is certainly not good to give in to harassment, I have choose solution #2. As I wrote to the forum owner "you might as well have the guts to ask me to leave politely and I certainly would not insist".
But the idea that someone can pull strings and make me say what I do not want to say, just because he finds it fun is completely disgusting to me.

I do not know for you, maybe some of you find it fantastic to read a forum like this, but for me this is more than just hindering freedom of expression, this is plain pervert.

So bye all !


Overall I hope I have contributed adding value to the forum and interest to the reader.
I tried to start threads worthy of real debate and to documents my posts as well as I could! I tried not to answer provocation by avoiding the most aggressive of hateful posters.

On the statistic side, I started no less than 113 threads and wrote 1250 posts, which means I easily dedicated two hundred hours to the forum.

these are some of the threads I am the most proud of , Bush is elected, what can we expect in the next years?
• Good news for the Saudis and the iranians: Crude prices hit 21 year high
• Fight against Global warming : Kyoto Protocol becomes international treaty.
• teaching democracy (it's a picture !)
• If America were Iraq, What Would It be Like?
• Another legend down the drain : Iraq's Disappearing Elections (this one is likely to make a comeback)
• a no-win war against 1.3 billion Muslims
• Israel Has Long Spied on U.S alleges Counterpunch (I think this thread title has been manipulated as well)
• Moore's anti-Bush film wins top Cannes award
• Arab-Israeli Retaliation Tragic, Unhelpful
• Europe must not define itself against America
• about the dangers of blurring the lines between humanitarians workers and armies
• French troops deployed on Sudan border
• Military Draft in the US?
• Reaction in France on Sharon calling french jews to "leave immediately
• Torture by US forces is Iraq is not just isolated incidents (that thread is probably the one with the longuest debate : 481 posts)
• How can the damage of the torture photos be repaired? (with now a variant with the shooting of an unarmed wounded insurged in a mosque)
• Are we de-Baathifying or re-Baathifying this week? (that one was not a success, by it was fun)
• Rebirth at Ground Zero (don’t start optimistics threads here : no success)
• Real politics starting inside iraq? (ditto)
• U.S. Drops Effort to Gain Immunity for Its Troops
• 9/11 panel says there was ‘‘no credible evidence’’ that Saddam had ties with al-Qaida
• Big demonstration in Paris today against anti-Semitism
• europe grows : Israelis rush on europeans passport
• hostilities ending in Falluja? (lucky I put an interrogation mark on that one.. that was started in june)
• France to expel Muslim cleric over abuse

And it makes me extremely sad to realize all these titles can be perverted anytime…



…. So I have decided, that I prefer to remove some of my posts than to have what I mean manipulated against my will, it’s a bit sad, but it seems reasonable to withdraw from a debate when the debate turns out to be a fake. And of course I do not approve of the hatred shown by the people who manipulate this forum to their ends.

[NewsGuy]

Good link to see what the lunatic fringe of French Jewery happens to think.

Of course, not very different than some of our own French members. Plenty of anti-Israeli and anti-American rhetoric.

[Olivier]

Good link to see what the lunatic fringe of French Jewery happens to think.
The question remains of who is a 'lunatic fringe'.


Of course, not very different than some of our own French members. Plenty of anti-Israeli and anti-American rhetoric.Another one of your "well-based" affirmations? This manifesto is not anti-Israeli (and indeed it is signed by people who deserve more respect than you in defending israel).

Moreover, where did you exactly find a reference to the united states in it?

[NewsGuy]

The question remains of who is a 'lunatic fringe'.

Not really. Even the page itself admits that it is "another" view on Israel, i.e., radically different from the mainstream point of view.

Another one of your "well-based" affirmations? This manifesto is not anti-Israeli (and indeed it is signed by people who deserve more respect than you in defending israel).

Moreover, where did you exactly find a reference to the united states in it?

Yes, it is anti-Israeli, because it slams the policies of Israel's Democratically elected government, which represents the will of the majority of Israelis. And it does so at a time that Israel is at war with the Palestinian Jihadists.

As for the anti-American garbage, we can see the nasty "Le Cartel Bush" and "Regine Bush" promotions all over the page at http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/article12409.html .

It has become crystal clear that the radical Leftists who hate Israel, almost always support Arab terrorism and also hate America

[Olivier]

Not really. Even the page itself admits that it is "another" view on Israel, i.e., radically different from the mainstream point of viewOk "another" = "lunatic fringe"




Yes, it is anti-Israeli, because it slams the policies of Israel's Democratically elected government, which represents the will of the majority of Israelis.If you this is your reasonning, how can you bash france and simultaneously pretend not to hate the french then?

As for the anti-American garbage, we can see the nasty "Le Cartel Bush" and "Regine Bush" Please don't change the subject, this manifesto is published on many different locations (that's what a manifesto is for). Le monde is reserved to subscribers so I took this one (because you have a list of the people who signed it too). But it is the very same text everywhere of course.

So let me ask again, do you admit the manifesto does not contain a single word about the USA or do you persist in that it is "anti-American garbage"?



btw despite our (huge) differences, I appreciate the attention you are giving to this! Finding a translation would be all the better.

[Gilgamesh]

A manifesto of french jews against antisemitism has been released a while ago, it is very often referred to in france but I have not seen it mentionned on this forum.

For those who can read french, you can find an easy to read version here (http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/article12409.html)

you can sign the appeal here : http://autre.voix.free.fr/autrevoix.htm

If someone find the english translation, we can share it with more people. I'm sure it has been translated but I cannot get my hand on it.



(this is against antisemitism, pro israel but not pro-sharon! This manifesto is bound to provoke outrage from prominent right and extreme-right forum members)

From the my weak French, I can see the patition supports much of the Arab's demands .

We have creatures like these, in Israel too. We call them traitors and collaborators with the enemy, usually, or lunatics.

There is no short of lunatics in France, even among Jews.
Truth it, Oliver, if you look for lunatic with extrem opinions, you can find them in any mental asylum or university. I hope you don't expect me to go throug each on and one and comment about their bizzare impracticle opinions, do you?

I don't care about them, anymore. I wish I could help them, but I can't. I used to be angry about Jews like that, but they are sick in their heads. Nothing for me to get upset about.

What upsets me though, is asking myself, why you, Olie, consider that important? What do you make of this? Do you really think these people represent a meaning full portion of the Jewish people?

[Semsem]

[QUOTE=Olivier]A manifesto of french jews against antisemitism has been released a while ago, it is very often referred to in france but I have not seen it mentionned on this forum.<<

You know I can't stand Olive's f guts. He is a liar and in my opinion an antisemite. This manifesto is an anti Israeli piece of garbage signed by self hating French Jews. In fact there are only about 30 signatures on it. In Britain and Holland a few self hating Jews also issued this piece of garbage.

You have a nerve to lie and post this dreck on this forum.

[Semsem]

<<(this is against antisemitism, pro israel but not pro-sharon! This manifesto is bound to provoke outrage from prominent right and extreme-right forum members)[/QUOTE]


You blooming liar. It is against Israel. Petainiste!

[Olivier]

We have creatures like these, in Israel too. We call them traitors and collaborators with the enemyMany of the people who signed have been in Auchwitz or Ravensbruck.

Who is the traitor: you or them ? Who is the hater ?

[Gilgamesh]

Many of the people who signed have been in Auchwitz or Ravensbruck.

Who is the traitor: you or them ? Who is the hater ?

I know planty more Auchwitz survivors, who claim exactly the oposite, word for word, and have full support of Zionism.

Not only communists were sent to death camps, but also Zionists and Religious Zionists.

Being a Holocaust survivour does NOT turn one into a saint. Being wronged, does not make one right, and under going tortures and tornments, do not make one rightious. Only good deeds make one rightous, if only he chooses to do them.

I know where your thinking is coming from, Catholism. You just can't break out from this strait-jacket of Catholic propaganda. What happened, Oliver, the Inqusition is following you?

You cannot by pass the use of your head. You cannot ignore the need for of judgment.

[Semsem]

Many of the people who signed have been in Auchwitz or Ravensbruck.Who is the traitor: you or them ? Who is the hater ?

You know Olivier you are full of BS. 50 people signed this stupid Petition and there are about 2 who are children of Jews who were at Auschwitz and only 1 was actually there. I am sick and tired of your LYING. Fortunately I speak French with my parents and sister so I can read and understand this dreck

[Mediocrates]

In my mind any Shoah survivor is exempt for life from having to explain any opinion or view they have. And anyone who would exploit that opinion or it's lack of clarity for whatever reason, is less than human. I've been to many presentations and speeches by Shoah survivors and as far as I'm concerned they have the right to say or not say whatever they want. I don't need an explanation even if it doesn't make sense to me.

[Ahava]

A manifesto of french jews against antisemitism has been released a while ago, it is very often referred to in france but I have not seen it mentionned on this forum.

For those who can read french, you can find an easy to read version here (http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/article12409.html)

you can sign the appeal here : http://autre.voix.free.fr/autrevoix.htm

If someone find the english translation, we can share it with more people. I'm sure it has been translated but I cannot get my hand on it.


Not even original. In Dutch there's a group called "another Jewish voice" (Een Ander Joods Geluid), which is the exact same as "une autre voix juive"

Stupid Jews.

[Olivier]

Not even original. In Dutch there's a group called "another Jewish voice" (Een Ander Joods Geluid), which is the exact same as "une autre voix juive".Ah! Can you tell me more? Is the manifesto shared by people from other countries or is this just a coincidence?

[Ahava]

Ah! Can you tell me more? Is the manifesto shared by people from other countries or is this just a coincidence?

I can tell you more. It's a bunch of sad, far-left people who brazenly bash Israel in public. One of the most extreme people in this club is Hayo Meyer, he's a straight up anti-semite who brags about having been in Auschwitz and therefore being an "authority". He wrote a book titled "The end of Judaism". He makes comparisons with the nazis. Another notorious member is Harry de Winter. He's very annoying because he never lets other people speak when in a discussion. His cousin Leon de Winter is an excellent columnist and a completely different person, very pro-Israel etc. I haven't heard of them (EAJG) having international links, but I wouldn't be surprised either.

[Ahava]

Many of the people who signed have been in Auchwitz or Ravensbruck.

Who is the traitor: you or them ? Who is the hater ?

Full of shi*t. Funny, I hadn;t even read this post of yours before mentioning Hayo Meyer who does the exact same, he MISUSES his Auschwitz experience. And people like you buy it. I fully subscribe what Gilgamesh said about it.