French president accuses Israel of conducting anti-French Campaign

[L@mplighterM]

*

[Vic]

Oh dear, Israel is currently France's greatest problem, isn't she?

[Evolution]

Absolutely.

I run into French ppl almost daily in the UK, esp here in the South, and they are by and large nice, polite and classy. They are not anti semetic in general, and portraying them as such is pathetic. They have the largest Jewish pop in the EU, 700,000 Jews who live happily there.

In times of such political upheaval, your obviously going to get a few incidents of anti Muslim and anti Jewish behavior, but that is not a reason to lamblast the entire people with a brush that does not apply.

Having said that, I support the Israeli action in the WB and gaza, esp after the Al-qaeeda attack on Pakistan last week. Terrorism in a city in which I have friends is horrible, and I can finally understand and sympathize with the plight of the Israelis, who face such scourages all there lives.

[Belgium@EU]

France is not a racist country, nor anti-semitic. When will the world learn. Israel should stop condeming France, on what ground? If Israel continues with its anti-EU propaganda (go on, make yourself onpopular with the few allies you still have like the EU), than I can imagine what the consequences will be. France is by far the most powerful political memberstate in the EU. If Jacques makes some phonecalls to Tony, Gerhard, Silvio and Aznar, he can arrange some economic sanctions.

[christian]

L@mpligther,

Why don't you(US) bomb France and germany too. Why the heck? Why don't you include China and Russian? They are all anti-semtics too.

If not, US can also bomb Pakistan, Australia and south east asia.

After that, I think we can find some space in "Mars", and we will find a place like Israel. Which is not anti-semtics.

Warning: No one can live in this earth ever after.

:D

[Belgium@EU]

Yeah also bomb Australia. I heard some kangaroo's are getting very anti-semitic these days. Ohh, and while we are in the neighbourhoud, New Zealand. I never liked those Kiwi's anyway :D

[cerulean]

Booing the French national anthem at a soccer game.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020511/ap_wo_en_ge/france_soccer_incident_1

SAINT DENIS, France - The start of a major French soccer match was briefly delayed Saturday evening after the national anthem was booed by some spectators and an angry President Jacques Chirac demanded an apology.


"It's inadmissible and unacceptable ... (that) France be humiliated by a gesture of this nature," said Chirac, present for the match final of the French Cup between Lorient and Bastia.

He ordered the game halted until the French Football Federation apologized. The two teams returned to the dressing room.

...

"I will not tolerate and will not accept that the essential values of the (French) republic and those who express them be so attacked," a visibly angry Chirac told TF1 television.

==============

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by cerulean
"I will not tolerate and will not accept that the essential values of the (French) republic and those who express them be so attacked," a visibly angry Chirac told TF1 television.
Yes, this is a symptom of the French national delusion of grandeur. No opposing team fans may boo the French. The opposing team must be censored and ordered to revere all French institutions, including their soccer team.

I am always amused by the shock and indignation of the French when they realize the rest of the world views them like just another ordinary country.

On the other hand, the French are not at all shocked by anti-Semitic violence and other forms of racism that is so common in their society.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
He added that it cannot continue "without consequences," Colonna said. She did not elaborate on what the consequences could entail.
Yes, I saw that the main part of the conversation was to threaten Israel with "unspecified" consequences.

And what would those consequences be already?

Politically, France is virtually an enemy of Israel, so far as initiating and voting for UN condemnation and sanctions against Israel. France managed to keep Hizbullah off the EU list of terrorist organizations, and that is a clear message. From France's point of view, Hizbullah's shooting missiles into Israeli population centers is legitimate and should not be curtailed.

From a trade standpoint, I think that it would be healthy for Israel to discontinue the trade imbalance wth France. What does Israel sell to France? Some citrus fruit, maybe. But Israel buys from France a vast amount of consumer goods and automobiles. It would be good for Israelis to trade in their Peugots and Renaults for Toyotas and Fords.

So, from a political and trade standpoint, France has very little to threaten with, really.

In any event, if France makes a public move against Israel in any arena, there will be consequences for French companies doing business in the US. That's for sure.

[Belgium@EU]

Problem is, if you have France as an enemy, you have all 15 memberstates against you. There's no such thing anymore as the "French economy". All decissions are made in Brussels and Frankfurt and not in Paris. Thus meaning that Israel won't import Renault's anymore, but also Mercedes, Volkwagon, Rover, Fiat (not a problem). Too bad, as the IDF needs DaimerChrysler for its Merkava tanks. But if you want to buy Ford, go ahead. (who else wants American cars :D).

It's not only France who asked for economic sanctions : also Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Austria ... the other ones were too much influenced by uncle sam (UK) or € (GER). EU is not looking forward to impose sanctions, Israel still is an important trade partner. But que sera, sera.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Belgium@EU

It's not only France who asked for economic sanctions : also....


Libya, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Niger.....

You're in good company....!

[Belgium@EU]

did I say those countries. Did I? I said Belgium, portugal, spain, greece ...

PLEASE DO NOT PARAPHRASE HALF OF WHAT I SAID.

[Evolution]

I cannot believe the French anthem was booed. How low can certain people get. The French anthem, as well as being a representation of a decent state, and thus deserving respect, its also a great tune.

The French are great, the whole world loves France, bar Israel-so what does that say?

[christian]

Originally posted by NewsGuy

Yes, this is a symptom of the French national delusion of grandeur. No opposing team fans may boo the French. The opposing team must be censored and ordered to revere all French institutions, including their soccer team.

I am always amused by the shock and indignation of the French when they realize the rest of the world views them like just another ordinary country.

On the other hand, the French are not at all shocked by anti-Semitic violence and other forms of racism that is so common in their society.

Newsguy,

I couldn't believe your education level. :o I thought you are much more exposed than I do, since you are working for media outlets.

The reason the French president reacts this way.

1) It is the pride of the French people

2) The president is representating the french culture and identity

3) It is obvious, Chirac is protecting the pride of France.


There is proverbs in Chinese.
"You can kill a samurai. You never should humilate a samurai."

If I try to burn an American Flag in the American Embassy. I will be on the national front page in Washington Post.


So, Can you tell me why he can't do that? Just as, You don't like people, wearing KKK uniform in Jerusalem.

Note:I find many of your postings, are very biased. Which is not appropate for a moderator.

[L@mplighterM]

Let me see now:

Anti-Semitism seems to be a minor problem in the eyes o the French Government. Burning the odd synagogue or shooting at school busses isn’t a major problem. As a matter of fact similar things are happening throughout Europe.


But:

Never never ever boo at the French National Anthem.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by christian
Newsguy,

I couldn't believe your education level. :o I thought you are much more exposed than I do, since you are working for media outlets.

So, Can you tell me why he can't do that? Just as, You don't like people, wearing KKK uniform in Jerusalem.

Note:I find many of your postings, are very biased. Which is not appropate for a moderator.
First of all, I am biased in favor of Israel. All my posts are pro-Israel. That was very observant of you to notice that, as apparently nothing gets by you unnoticed. ;)

As for the rest of your bizarre analogy between booing a French soccer team on the one hand and wearing a KKK uniform in Jerusalem on the other hand, I can just say that I think you are living in a different world than I am.

And lastly, I'm not going to even respond to your comment about the level of my education or my knowledge of news events.

[alexbmn]

As I've read to impose sanctions on Israel all the EU members have to vote unanimously.and Germany and Britain will never do it. So suck it. And its funny how the French who are indignant about being labeled anti Semites dont even attempt to try to stop the attacks on the jews in their own country. Oh and their anti Israeli poliics go far beyond reasonable criticism.For example Le Monde virtually accused Israel of being responcible for the delphinarium bombing.They absolutely refuse to see any Palestinian wrongdoing. That could definitely be labeled as Anti Semitism.

[christian]

Originally posted by alexbmn
As I've read to impose sanctions on Israel all the EU members have to vote unanimously.and Germany and Britain will never do it. So suck it. And its funny how the French who are indignant about being labeled anti Semites dont even attempt to try to stop the attacks on the jews in their own country. Oh and their anti Israeli poliics go far beyond reasonable criticism.For example Le Monde virtually accused Israel of being responcible for the delphinarium bombing.They absolutely refuse to see any Palestinian wrongdoing. That could definitely be labeled as Anti Semitism.

You guys always said someone is racist. Yet. You never have been racial profiling before. I am a chinese origin. I live in Canada and US before. In University entrance of medicial schools, they still do the racial profiling thing. There is ten white people and ten black. If they have same sat score. There is only five seats for medical schools. They only choose 4 whites and one black.

You guys always said someone is anti semitism. In US and EU, the jewish business practically is the leader of every field. Especially,in US, those people who cries "stop the israel incursion". They will loose their carreer for life time in US congress. Those in media business, if they dare to write anti-jewish slogan. Their carreer will be over.

You guys never suffer racism. It is just a patrotic feeling from your post. I suffer from racism, because I am not white people. Especially, you are colored people. They have a policy called "glass ceiling" policy.

So. Stop the BS about anti-semitism. Arabs, Asian origins, blacks are suffered more racial discrimnations than you do.

The hollywood BS about Anti-semitism is in the 40's. No one dare to chanllege the jewish supremacy in the US right now.

In France, it is a practically a socialist country. However, the jews are practically assimlated as white people. There are really no difference between White people and jews. It is only religion that separates them.

Wow. 360 synagoge burns in middle of France. This is regretable. However, you never mentions the colored people are being burned a live in US everyday. The Indian girls get raped by white hooligan. 360 synagoge is really nothing, comparing to the suffering of the indian natives. When the media mentions about it, it is at the last page of the news.

Stop talking about anti-semitism. I understand more racism than most of you pro-israelis.

Newsguy,
Well. Since you said it. You are not very neutral position as a moderator. You admit it blantantly. Too bad, this is internet. You wouldn't dare to say "smelly" palestinian in CNN.

[christian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NewsGuy

First of all, I am biased in favor of Israel. All my posts are pro-Israel. That was very observant of you to notice that, as apparently nothing gets by you unnoticed. ;)

You are moderator. Are you not?


As for the rest of your bizarre analogy between booing a French soccer team on the one hand and wearing a KKK uniform in Jerusalem on the other hand, I can just say that I think you are living in a different world than I am.

What do you mean bizzare? It is a nation pride for singing a national anthem. How do you like the comment on Austwiz from Belgium? Does it hurt your pride as a jews? If someone call me a yellow face. It will hurt my pride as chinese origin.


And lastly, I'm not going to even respond to your comment about the level of my education or my knowledge of news events
Perhaps, you don't understand English. I never ask your educational level. I am saying an educated person like yourself as a professional media worker, would show such a biased opinion in the forum. No kidding. You are pro-israel. You are moderator. What is the point of moderator? In the media circle, your job is supposedly to be neutrality. I am not interested in your racist remark of "smelly" Palestinian.

In order words, your words means that The jewish blood is valuable than any other race.

Let me give you a lesson in history. There are no superior race in this world. Every race has his glory times. The Egyptian thinks they are the centre of the world in the ancient times. It is all BS.
Every nations has his glory time. It is just happens the jewish people has their glory days right now.

[Belgium@EU]

Well said Christian. Also, why would somebody feel ashamed because of his colour? In Europe, we are happy that some Chinese people come to work here, because they are well educated, and in some areas like the IT, superior! The EU has an exchange problem with The PRC (students from Europe who study in PRC).

If it wasn't of the Chinese and the Arabs, us Europeans would be still cave dwellers.

Every cuture has its golden age. Europe had the 19th century, America the 20th. In the 21th century, it's most likely that China and India will become superpowers once again and break through the western hegemony. Anyone who still thinks that China is a Maoist country, is wrong and/or stupid. Our PM went to China a couple of weeks ago, and he said it was one of the most liberal countries he had ever visited. There are still some human rights issues, but I hope that with the Olympics of 2008, China will also clear this up.

[Mediocrates]

"There are still some human rights issues, but I hope that with the Olympics of 2008, China will also clear this"


cough cough Falun Gong


...cough cough Tibet

hack, spit, cough

sorry, what were you saying??

[Evolution]

Thats right. Ppl here think that Jews are somehow more human then non Jews. They have a shocking disregard for Arabs and Muslims alike, and yet the Jewish ppl today suffer little racism and they make it out to be a big thing.

:(

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Evolution
Thats right. Ppl here think that Jews are somehow more human then non Jews. They have a shocking disregard for Arabs and Muslims alike, and yet the Jewish ppl today suffer little racism and they make it out to be a big thing. :(
Listen, I get the impression that you're a Muslim Pakistani living in the UK. Fine, no problem. Instead of making pronouncements about what Jews think (which you apparently have no idea whatsoever), just focus on responding to the issues discussed in each thread, please.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by christian
Let me give you a lesson in history.[/B]
No, thanks. But maybe you are in need of a lesson in common courtesy.

Now, I'm not sure if you are having some difficulties understanding what people are saying on this forum due to cultural barriers, or maybe it's just a matter of poor reading comprehension on your part. But I've have seen quite a few messages where you have no idea what was actually said (like the non-existent "smelly Palestinians" comment you are imagining. You are also apparently imagining that people said other comment about "superiority."

I suggest that you go back and re-read those threads from the beginning to understand what people are saying, and take your time, please, to understand ALL the English words, so you can then understand what is actually being said, and then you will hopefully be able to respond accordingly.

Or...

Maybe you'll decide that you don't necessarily have anything of substance to say. That would be ok also, if you know what I mean.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Evolution
I cannot believe the French anthem was booed. How low can certain people get. The French anthem, as well as being a representation of a decent state, and thus deserving respect, its also a great tune.

The French are great, the whole world loves France, bar Israel-so what does that say?

Apparently not the whole world loves France the American Jewish Congress is protesting French anti-Semitism by asking Hollywood stars and studios not to attend the Cannes Film Festival.

They cited the following reasons:

The full-page ads, placed in Variety and the Hollywood Reporter, the two leading dailies covering the entertainment industry, and the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles, draw parallels between the collaborationist Vichy regime of 1942 with the France of 2002.
For example, the ad states, both in 1942 and 2002, "Synagogues and Schools [are] Firebombed"and "Jews [are] attacked on the streets,"while 1942’s "Chants of ‘Heil Hitler’ and ‘Death to the Jews’ heard on the streets"are replaced in 2002 with "Chants of ‘Vive Bin Laden’ and ‘Death to the Jews’ heard on the streets.”

Complete article:

http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1020943237571

I don’t like France as a matter of fact the behavior encountered by Jews throughout the EU and other European countries is deplorable.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Evolution
Thats right. Ppl here think that Jews are somehow more human then non Jews. They have a shocking disregard for Arabs and Muslims alike, and yet the Jewish ppl today suffer little racism and they make it out to be a big thing.

:(

Could you point out to me please, the flames over the minarets in London?

[Evolution]

I was in the UK immediately after 9/11 and there was major anti islamic sentiment, and that was coupled with anti Arab, Asian and Afro-Arab sentiment in general.

There were attacks on muslims and Asians daily, with 1 5yr old girl knifed for wearing a headscarf-are you denying that is suffering from racism as much as the allaged suffering of EU Jews?

The sentiments widely dissappeared from mainstream opinion soon after, and bar a few places up north where ppl are stupid-its all normal now.

Several mosques were graffitied, and threats issued to islamic schools and centeres. Is that not suffering?

I'm chilling in Asia at the moment, but generally the EU populace is ok with Muslims. We have good numbers here, so our voices mae the press-esp with high profile Muslims like Abdul Murad (fmr Prof at Oxford Uni) and sportsmen like Chris Eubank who get our grivences dealt with.

[Mediocrates]

Immediately after 911 there were all sorts of predictions about anti Muslim violence here in the states. There were about a half dozen instances that made the media and after about 3 days it died down to zero. Is that what you describe?

Have the police blotters segregated the honor killings from the anti muslim violence yet? I understand that's been a recurring theme of crime statistics in muslim neighborhoods. At least for serious assaults and for murders.

[Evolution]

"Honor killings" are largely in the past. a few idiots with isolated cases is not reflectie of the Muslim people.

The Us-Jews have you guys on a leash man. :O

[cerulean]

I did a thread with research on it in the General Discussion folder a few months ago. Sadly, it's not a thing of the past.

I admit the thread is incomplete, as I did not, for one thing, post up-to-date accounts of the grim events happening in Pakistan, Nigeria, and Saudi Arabia under sharia rule.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Evolution
"Honor killings" are largely in the past. a few idiots with isolated cases is not reflectie of the Muslim people.

The Us-Jews have you guys on a leash man. :O



Actually I watched a documentary on TV a few months ago and “Honor Killings” aren’t a thing of the past. So either you’re ignorant of that fact or you’re trying to hide that fact from people on this board.

[Mediocrates]

I wasn't trying to make one kind of statement or another. Merely that in crime statistics its hard to get good data that segregates one from the other. It's like any other domestic violence statistic, very mushy. I think that in times of neighborhood stress both the victims and the cops are quick to chalk up killings and mutilations, rape and family violence to 'racist' attacks. But from a statistical point of view if you have only tiny sample of events you better be damn sure you know the root cause otherwise your research is ****. That's just math not politics.

[christian]

Originally posted by Mediocrates


Could you point out to me please, the flames over the minarets in London?

Mediocrates,
It is obviously, you never suffer racism. Let's face it. You are white populations. You look white. You will have a better job opportunity than Arabs or asian. You speak perfect english. You talk some mojo or humor. You look and act like a typical white population.

So, please don't tell me racism. I live in racism as a minority in North America. Not all of the people is racist. However, there is always a few hooligan. I never complain. I just live my life as it is.

360 synagoge is nothing, comparing the daily living hell of the minority.

Yeah. You mention 369 syngagoe burned by extremist muslim.

You never mentions the neo- nazi people beat up an arabs, because he is just an asian origin. They live with this everyday.

If the news mentions, it is the last page of the news. Big deal! Right. mediocrates.

[takeo]

I can only tell you AGAIN that Jews in france don't suffer ANY anti-semitism, except the symbolic actions of a small group of frustrated algerians (who also in most cases are common criminals and the main reason for Le pen's high score) i. I think i know better about French anti-semitism than any of you, and especially the ones who have never visited France.
And it's true even in France other etnic groups like Arabs, Africans or Asians suffer more from daily racism than Jews, more French are racist against them than against Jews (still a small minority compared to racism in the US).
France is not biased against israel, israel's policy is illegitimate according to the UN and France has the full right to criticise it, as the US has the right to criticise other countries.
That this is responsible for such low feelings of anti-french hatred and racism (not just criticising French policy, as France is doing with israel, but extreme anti-french hatred) is telling more about those people and the might of the pro-zionist lobby in the States than about the French. By the way comparing France to the Vichy-regime is mean, because that regime was hated by most french people (only not by lomplighter's favorite and equal Arab-hater le Pen) and you can't blaim an entire people for eternity for the actions of a tratorous puppet-regime.
France has the right to demand an end to this anti-french hatred, israel and the zionist lobby in the us is hurting itself by those ridiculous statements, and French Jews (all the ones i know, even pro-israeli ones) are very angry about this, because its completely baseless and propagated by ignorant people who know nothing about France.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by christian


Mediocrates,
It is obviously, you never suffer racism. Let's face it. You are white populations. You look white. You will have a better job opportunity than Arabs or asian. You speak perfect english. You talk some mojo or humor. You look and act like a typical white population.

So, please don't tell me racism. I live in racism as a minority in North America. Not all of the people is racist. However, there is always a few hooligan. I never complain. I just live my life as it is.

360 synagoge is nothing, comparing the daily living hell of the minority.

Yeah. You mention 369 syngagoe burned by extremist muslim.

You never mentions the neo- nazi people beat up an arabs, because he is just an asian origin. They live with this everyday.

If the news mentions, it is the last page of the news. Big deal! Right. mediocrates.


Ever been shot at, hit with a bike chain, threatened with a knife or put out a fire on your lawn? Ever had a paving stone go through your front window? Me too.

[takeo]

the anthem was booed by Corsicans, not by foreigners.

France can boycott israel with absolutely no consequences for france (no us-companies will risk to loose this important market) but a lot for israel (it means most of europe will boycott israel, it's main trade partner both in eXPORT and IMPORT). Without europe israel has no more trade partners left in an area of 5000 km. Maybe this would bring the leaders of israel to their sences and quickly result in new negociations. Already international pressure is a factor which influences sharon who would probably prefere to deport all palestinians to Jordan. the US-congress has no right to act like this, France isn't condamning the us either when a racist crime happens and it isn't condamning the us for supporting dictatorships and terrorists all over the world. (for bombing countries yes, because that's against the un-resolutions and not allowed, as well as for punishing French companies investing in cuba, which is against the rules of the WTO).
I think France should go further and invest in Iraq as well, to stop this murderous embargo, and deliver weapons to palestinians and Syria, who both suffer from occupation and need this weapons to defend themselves (only to groups who don't commit attacks on innocent people) while imposing an embargo on israel. Pretty much the same position the US had in Yougoslavia.
It should also challenge US-hegemony in NATO and push for a European army totally independant of the States, being good friends means being independant of eachother and in the same position, pretty much as China is trying to do (and somehow Russia too). We have to challenge the us hegemony in the world by peacefull means, and i'm sure the world will take France and Europe a lot more serious than today. People don't like the us because of it's hegemonic arrogance.