Time for Jewish/Christain Zionists to Demand that Bush Confront the Saudi Whabbi thre

[Boblight]

Bush needs to demand to his Royal Friends that if they do not immediately put and end to their dreams of a " Whabbi-Mulim World Order" , he will order immediately give Tax breaks to US oil companies who leave Arabia, and purchase oil from non-ME nations. He will pledge to reduce our dependency on ME oil to 0 %.. Than he will work with US and foreign auto makers to improve fuel efficency on all cars/trucks/SUV's. He will than make it a matter of National Security to develope An Emergency Marshall Energy Plan complete with conservation, alternative energy and a RESPONSIBLE domestic oil program in Alaska. A dream that one day me become a reality! This is a pre=emptive strategy, called energy independence!!! Bob PS How about a dual NASA, General Motors/Ford project to develope a workable electric /Fuel cell car by 2007!!

[scattergood]

What are you smoking? Seems like some strong stuff!

[Boblight]

It's called Saudi-Gold! Bob

[Mil]

I would rather abuse Saudi Arabia to the fullest and pump out all their oil as fast as possible.

[drexpert]

We need to spend some money on technologies that will eliminate our dependence on oil!

If the US gov't. had spent 10% of the war budget on fuel-cell development and other energy technologies, who knows where we would be today.

The only things the Arabs have to offer the world is Islam and oil!

We can do without both!

Jeffrey

[Macc]

What are you smoking? Seems like some strong stuff!

Whatever he's having I want some.

[Olivier]

What are you smoking? Seems like some strong stuff!maybe he inhaled oil... you are somewhat high here, Boblight (unless it's just your little brother posting).

[KettleWhistle]

Why are you singling out Wahabbis? Sh ites are just as bad, if not worse, and they got plenty of oil.

As for our oil independence, the price tag is about $100 billion for infrastructure, and it will take years for the new cars to get a reasonable market share. Also keep in mind that as more people will be switching to alternative fuels, the price for gasoline will drop, in fact incouraging the others to keep their cars.

No matter how much we may want it, it would take no less than 15-20 years for the alternative fuels to become mainstream.

[drexpert]

...
No matter how much we may want it, it would take no less than 15-20 years for the alternative fuels to become mainstream.

Gee, let me think............

Let's start yesterday!

Jeffrey

It;s so easy for these threads to wander. I am at fault as well!

[Mediocrates]

We need a national strategic initiative to reduce or necessary reliance on OPEC oil by 5-6% per year. Not the elimination but the elimination of the reliance on it. Today the KSA accounts for about 9% of US oil imports so the target should be across a broad spectrum of the OPEC states. We should work in several dimensions:

1 Work to break up OPEC
2 Exploit sources from non OPEC states
3 Ambitious conservation targets of 3% per year
4 Invest in a combination of a Manhattan project and Eisenhower interstate highway project to develop non petro energy systems and sources
5 Resurrect nuclear power

[KettleWhistle]

We also need to be pragmatic and realistic.

1 Work to break up OPEC
Will be considered oppressive, and will be opposed by the EU and Asian countries. I'd say most likely, it's not a viable option.
2 Exploit sources from non OPEC states
Russia is unreliable. So is Venezuela.
3 Ambitious conservation targets of 3% per year
This is unrealistic, and will not help much because of increasing demand for oil in Asia, not mention our taste in big cars.
4 Invest in a combination of a Manhattan project and Eisenhower interstate highway project to develop non petro energy systems and sources
As I mentioned, its $100+ billion, and several decades
5 Resurrect nuclear power
Aren't we doing it already?

So no quick fixes here. (Sorry Bob:) )

And as long as we are on the topic, has anybody heard anything new about Schwarzenegger's proposal to invest $15 billion in alternative energy sources for cars in California?

[Mediocrates]

Because that's practical.

[Boblight]

Oil prices hit record high today.. Just the begining of higher energy prices! May have to trade in me Hummer for a Prisis!

[minusthejihad]

Oil prices hit record high today.. Just the begining of higher energy prices! May have to trade in me Hummer for a Prisis!

Have fun! If the Prius wasn't the ugliest car on the road, I'd be all for it. For aesthetic puposes, I suggest the Lexus Hybrid SUV.

My fix is to make more money!

[Canajew]

Oil prices hit record high today.. Just the begining of higher energy prices! May have to trade in me Hummer for a Prisis!
whihc is of course why high prices are good all around

[Gilgamesh]

We need to spend some money on technologies that will eliminate our dependence on oil!

If the US gov't. had spent 10% of the war budget on fuel-cell development and other energy technologies, who knows where we would be today.

The only things the Arabs have to offer the world is Islam and oil!

We can do without both!

Jeffrey

There are much simpler massures that can be done, other then long term scientific reaserach, that would lower dramticly the USA oil dependency.

* More nuclear reactors,
* Tax breaks that will increase migration from the cold north, to the sunny southern USA. Save energy on heating.
* Goveremental subsedies for solar pannels.
* Better waste menagement. One landfill can produce some ammound of natural gas. As for one example. There are other technics that already exist that turn waste into fuel.
* Improve mass transportation via rail ways. The USA has almost none.
* Recycle more.
* Redesign cities in a way that private cars will become unnesesary. (Arcologs).

[Elisheba]

There are much simpler massures that can be done, other then long term scientific reaserach, that would lower dramticly the USA oil dependency.


As usual, Gilgamesh is exactly right ... well, except for the 'nuclear reactor' part - ACK! :eek:

[Mediocrates]

Nah that's just fearmongering. Fission power works if handled correctly. If the US had a more or less standard design and implementation that didn't require each plant to be custom built one-off facing never before seen problems and if it had a program similar to the Japanese's to handle spent waste then nuclear would work. The problem is not fission per se its the process controls associated with operation a complex system in absolutely unique ways.

In most ways the basic design of US nuclear plants is a modification of shipborne nuclear reactors which were never imagined to be primary electrical plants. Since then its been a lot of rework and retrofitting to adapt those designs to a purpose they were never intended to fullfill. But there are new designs that start from scratch to overcome those problems. There is a Japanese company that has a small scale design that can be built into a 30 foot tube a yard wide, sunk into the ground and it can theoretically fuel a town of 4000 for 30-40 years.

See the problem is that nothing is cost free. Hydro causes massive disruptions to the ecosystem as well. Oil, coal and gas cause fumes and spills. So does co generating from buring garbage. Think about this for a moment. If every car were electric then how much more oil and coal would be have to burn to generate the electricity for all the cars?

The alternative systems are only not close to real yet, the changeover costs are enormous.

[Elisheba]

Nah that's just fearmongering.

Okay...not being sarcastic at all here, I promise. WTF happened @ 3-mile island in 1979? I am sincerely concerned about this because I live VERY near to Diablo Nuclear Power Plant.

Thank you.

[Mediocrates]

I recommend you read "Normal Accidents" by Charles Perrow. TMI was certainly a serious accident but the point is not whether it was serious or not but why did it happen? Complex systems especially these plants suffer from problems because each one is so unique. Each one has to reinvent the wheel and solve the same problems over and over. Each one is unique design with unique processes. Nothing can be learned or transferred from any other design or implementation.

Diablo suffers from these problems as well. It also suffers from being built in the wrong place borne of the same political corruption in California you can trace all the way back to the aqueducts and water wars of the early 20th C.

I was a LILCO customer for years and we experienced the ONLY fully completed nuclear plant - Shoreham - that never went online and went from completion to decommissioning with no operations in between. It was originally expected to cost 375 million dollars when it was conceived in the 1960's. When it was finally completed 20 years late and 6.5 billion dollars overbudget it was clear that it should have never been built this way. It probably shouldn't have been built at all but the problems were corruption, graft, organized crime, politics and community resistance. It's true that the design was a trick and there were innumerable reworks and fixes but that is what I was talking about: no standards.

Disclaimer: today I am a Progress Energy customer who's power comes from the Shearron-Harris nuclear plant.

[Elisheba]

I recommend you read "Normal Accidents" by Charles Perrow.

Thank you. I will read the book. :)

[Boblight]

Gilgemesh, Other ways to decrease dependence on ME oil, is very simple ,build more efficent cars, Trucks,( increase fuel efficency). Get rid of tax breaks for big SUV's and increase taxbreaks for hybrids. More money for wind power, costs are down, effiency is up! Leadership from the Federal government that Renewable energy is a TOP Priority, as one componet of Energy independence. I agree with most of your suggestions except Nucleur. Where are we going to bury all the wastes safely??? Yucca Mt is in Nevada( only 70 miles from Las Vegas). How are we going to ship all this dangerous material safely? One Truck or train wreck could jepordize millions of people.. Also it would be easy pickens for terrorists to blow up or hyjack trains/trucks filled with nucleur wastes.. When they find a way to get rid of waste products safely, only than will nucleur energy be a positive technology.. A change from a Pro-Oil adminstration( Bush), to a Pro-Energy Independent/Alternative Energy Kerry Administration would be a big step foward! Bob