Arafat Promises Reforms

[ibrodsky]

Could it be that Yasser Arafat is turning over a new leaf?

Is this the end of Arab terrorism?

Is it the beginning of Palestinian democracy?

[cerulean]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
Could it be that Yasser Arafat is turning over a new leaf?

Is this the end of Arab terrorism?

Is it the beginning of Palestinian democracy?

Does a leopard change its spots?

Haven't we heard something like this before?

Nevertheless, "hope springs eternal in the human breast."

[AmericaNumber1]

Wouldn't it be great? Is it too late to act optimistically? With the Likud Party opposed to a Palestinian State, what do you think the attitude is among Palestinian militants? I can only assume theres optimism among both parties (the peace wanting people) while a sense of determination still exists among the militants (Likud Party and Hamas). But with constant "revenge" tactics imposed on either end, i'm afraid this will only burden America to put a hand between the 2 states and force a truce.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by AmericaNumber1
Wouldn't it be great? Is it too late to act optimistically? With the Likud Party opposed to a Palestinian State, what do you think the attitude is among Palestinian militants? I can only assume theres optimism among both parties (the peace wanting people) while a sense of determination still exists among the militants (Likud Party and Hamas). But with constant "revenge" tactics imposed on either end, i'm afraid this will only burden America to put a hand between the 2 states and force a truce.

It's not too late to act optimistically, but it's better to act wisely. This speech has all of the telltale signs of another Arafat manuevre. He calls for "elections" he knows he can rig. At most, he said that terrorist attacks don't serve his cause, but what does this mean? He still calls for millions of martyrs to "liberate" Jerusalem...

How can you lump Likud together with Hamas? Likud does not advocate terrorist attacks against innocent Palestinians. Likud is a legitimate political party and its candidate for PM won the last election by a landslide. Hamas is on the U.S. list of terrorist organizations.

[Mediocrates]

From MEMRI:

Here's the beginning of the article -

Two short commentaries published in the Kuwaiti daily Al-Watan refer to Arafat as a leader whose role in the history of his people should come to an end. The following are excerpts from the articles:

"Arafat Has No Choice But Suicide or Resignation"
Columnist Zayd bin Ghayam wrote, "The vanquished Palestinian people are subjected to various forms of abuse and molestation which begin physically and end mentally, bringing them pain and suffering. The Palestinian president enjoys good health and plays the role required of him in the drama that has been directed by the Zionists for the last 34 years since Arafat rose to the top of the pyramid in the Fatah movement."

"I will not… do what other colleagues have done to expose this legendary figure… My question is: Why doesn't Arafat come out in public and in front of the world's TV cameras to, at the very least, announce his resignation?

You can read the rest at www.MEMRI.org look for SD #380.

The pressure mounts from the inside out on Arafat to simply leave the stage. The Arab world has learned again, that even in an environment where there is no difference between war and peace they cannot overcome the Israelis with force. They are being forced into the realization that they must eventually bargain.

[Skogan]

It may be that Israel is in a worse position if the palestinians get a true democracy. What if a democraticly elected offical wants substantially the same thing? Or more?

Right now, IMO the strongest arguement for international support of israel is that they are a democracy and the arabs are dictators. In the U.S., anyway, we have been conditioned from birth (due to the cold war) to support a democracy against dictatorships.

A freely elected Palestinian leader takes away that arguement. If a palestinian leader steps infront of a U.S. camera and says "we are a democracy in the middle east, and we would really like your support." He would likely get plenty of, not just because he is a democrat, but to show the arab world that we are don't hate muslims. In essence, they would have the "democracy" arguement the Israelis have, plus the "racial tolerance" arguement the Israelis wont.

Maybe he would be a dove and want peace. If not, Israel would have to defend itself on the merits of their claim to the land, and that is more difficult then saying support us becuase we are a democracy like you.


skogan

[Mediocrates]

Iran is a democracy on paper. Boo-Yah for them.

Actually what you allude to DID happen in Algeria. They ran an election ONCE and ONCE ONLY: the thugocrats won and the fundamentalists lost. The Algerians chose repressive secular rule over repressive religious rule. And of course they only get to vote once. A 100,000 people have died in the resulting violence.

Madagascar is similar w/o the mass killings - their quasi elected military government has been on the edge of calling for new elections for years. Clearly their leaders have no more street cred with the west than your typical 'elected' Mugabe.

All over the world countries are ruled by semi dictatorial one party states that democratically elect presidents for life or 7 years or whatever they claim. The results are the same in Kenya, Tanzania, Egypt, Algeria, and other places. Similarly the regimes is Pakistan, Nigeria, Indonesia, Cote d'Ivoire have varying degrees of success or at least repression with a friendly face.

Fake democracy won't help or hurt them if there are no political institutions.

[Skogan]

I agree Med. Thats why I said a "true" democracy. (See original post) I'm differentiating that from Iran, (and Arafats little dog and pony show.) If it is democratic in name only, it will get little support, from within or without.

[Gatorade]

Yes, if the Palestinians had a true democracy, they would get more US support.

But could you please explain what you meant by


plus the "racial tolerance" arguement the Israelis wont.

How could a group, as it now stands, won't let 200,000 Jews live on the West Bank be called racially tolerant? Maybe I missed your point.

Meanwhile, Israel has accepted people from what 90 countries after 1948.

[Mediocrates]

by the logic that convinces them that arabs can't possibly be antisemitic because they are a semitic people. it's twisted.

[Skogan]

Originally posted by Gatorade
Yes, if the Palestinians had a true democracy, they would get more US support.

But could you please explain what you meant by



How could a grouop, as it now stands, won't let 200,000 Jews live on the West Bank being racially tolerant? Maybe I missed your point.

Meanwhile, Israel has accepted people from what 90 countries after 1948.

I didn't mean to suggest Israeli's arent racially tolerant. What I meant is we get a chance to prove WE ARE racially tolerant, by supporting arabs. They are fond of saying that the U.S. is racist against arabs, and prejuidice against muslims. Now, we are going through a lot of trouble to prove that we aren't. By supporting a TRUE palistinian democracy, we would show that we are not against arabs. or muslims. Sorry for the confusion, I didnt say that too artfully.

Skogan

[wellofvow]

Originally posted by Skogan
I didn't mean to suggest Israeli's arent racially tolerant. What I meant is we get a chance to prove WE ARE racially tolerant, by supporting arabs. They are fond of saying that the U.S. is racist against arabs, and prejuidice against muslims. Now, we are going through a lot of trouble to prove that we aren't. By supporting a TRUE palistinian democracy, we would show that we are not against arabs. or muslims. Sorry for the confusion, I didnt say that too artfully.

Skogan

Hi Skogan. I was born in the Midwest USA, lived there for 23 years, undergraduate degree at University of Illinois at Chicago, so it is possible that my basic value system is similar to yours. I've been in Israel now for 33 years.
IMO, Americans of today must play catch-up and learn to recognize what others in the forum have correctly identified as the Big Lies. Just because the Arabs keep claiming that the U.S. is prejudiced against Arabs and / or Islam does not mean it is so. You do not have to prove anything. The Arab propaganda machine (including heads of Arab states) claim that Israel was behind 9/11. Do you believe that Israel has to prove that it wasn't? I don't, and so therefore I was quite shocked at American gullibility in forking over millions to show how "unprejudiced" you are. This is contrary to all logic.
In addition, to a Moslem, many everyday things that a non-Moslem does could be and is in fact construed as prejudice or racism. Examples: Women dressing immodestly (for a Moslem) is racist, since it offends Moslem sensibilities. Sale of pork products is racist, since pork is forbidden to Moslems. Same with alcoholic drinks. Making bigamy a felony is racist, since a Moslem is allowed at least 4 wives. Face it - there is absolutely, positively, never-ever going to be a way to "prove" that you are not racist, since, by definition, to a believing Moslem, you ARE racist. This is a complete non-starter, people. The Arabs are sending you off on wild goose chases. You can choose not to go.

[Mediocrates]

Exactly. The 'radical' PC left et. al. have stumbled on the general purpose instant reason for everything. Racism. Throw that word at someone and it's automatically true, indefensible and requires no proof at all to the contrary.

[wellofvow]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
Could it be that Yasser Arafat is turning over a new leaf?

Is this the end of Arab terrorism?

Is it the beginning of Palestinian democracy?

I love your sarcasm. Here's mine, in "answer":

Could it be that Santa Claus is shaving his beard?

Is this the end of all disease in all the world?

Is it the beginning of making reparations for 2000 years of antisemitism?

Mine are just as likely as yours, but yours were funny, mine just bitter. Blame it on my dog chewing up my boots.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by wellofvow
Blame it on my dog chewing up my boots.

Perhaps the dog mistook them for an Arab.

[Teacake]

Originally posted by cerulean
Does a leopard change its spots?

Haven't we heard something like this before?

Nevertheless, "hope springs eternal in the human breast."

I wish mine would spring back.

[wellofvow]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
Perhaps the dog mistook them for an Arab.
Hardly. Your mentioning this took me back to 3 dogs previous to my present one. We had P. back in the 1970s, and he would growl at everyone in a kaffiyeh or smelling of Bedouin cooking fires. Our later dogs have become so used to Arab and Bedouin workers that apparently they have taken them for "one of us". This really doesn't bother me much, as long as J. will attack someone who attempts to enter my house when I am not there to let them in.
BTW, one of our closest family friends is an Israeli Arab. OK, he has a doctorate, is secular, and an activist in Meretz, but still a Moslem and an Arab. I should like to think that most Israelis do not believe that an Arab, per se, is "bad". I took many graduate courses with Bedouin, and my son's physiotherapist after his accident was an Arab and wonderful (while my daughter's physiotherapist after her accident was Jewish and negligent, damaging my daughter through laziness).
Although I, like most people, have my prejudices, I know that they are prejudices. Labels are dangerous as a rule. This is why I believe that Israel has the higher moral ground in targeted killing rather than just leveling a city (from Hiroshima to Kabul). I can never understand why leftists get so hysterical about targeted killing. If somebody driving a Chevy hits and runs, and the victim dies, do the police throw everyone with a Chevy in jail, or do they look for the person who committed the crime? I don't get it.
And Arafat isn't the only one who promised reforms and hasn't put out. Let us not forget good old Syria. When Daddy passed on, his son the dentist promised sweeping reforms, and so far, it's the same old murderous routine. And yet Blair wines, dines, and listens to the bs of this tyrant and murderer. I don't get this either.