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Batman
08-15-2004, 08:47 AM
We either learn from history or history repeats itself. US & Israel should stop monetary and arms support of terror supporting, states and organizations

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The Day the Americans Bombed Auschwitz (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=4049)by Dr. Rafael Medoff
Aug 12, '04 / 25 Av 5764

Much has been written and said in recent years about the failure of the Roosevelt administration to order the bombing of Auschwitz. What is not widely known is that sixty years ago this month, U.S. bombers did strike Auschwitz.

Auschwitz is most infamous for its Birkenau section, where the gas chambers and crematoria were situated. An estimated 1.6 million people were murdered there. Less well known is that Auschwitz also contained dozens of slave labor camps. One was known as Buna-Monowitz, where the Germans had set up factories for the production of synthetic oil, which was crucial to their war effort. In the summer of 1944, U.S. and British bombers began hitting the oil factories. On August 20, they dropped over 1,300 bombs on the oil factories of Auschwitz, less than five miles from the gas chambers.

Throughout that summer, American Jewish organizations repeatedly asked the Roosevelt administration to order the bombing of Auschwitz. The War Department rejected the requests as "impracticable" because they would require "considerable diversion" of planes needed for the war effort. U.S. officials claimed the War Department had conducted a "study" and found that bombing Auschwitz was not militarily feasible. That claim was false. No such study had been done.

The real reason for the refusal was that the War Department had already secretly decided, back in February 1944, that as a matter of principle it would never use military resources "for the purposes of rescuing victims of enemy oppression." This policy was in accord with the policies of President Roosevelt and his State Department, who feared that saving Jews would create pressure to bring them to the United States. One internal State Department memo specifically warned against the "danger" that the Nazis "might agree to turn over to the United States and to Great Britain a large number of Jewish refugees."

Ironically, the very same month that the Americans were bombing the Auschwitz oil factories while claiming they could not divert planes to hit the gas chambers, they were diverting planes for another purpose.

In August 1944, the Polish Home Army rose up against the Germans in Warsaw. That valiant but hopeless eight-week revolt was commemorated recently in Poland with nationwide commemorative ceremonies. World leaders, including U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroder, attended. A feature story in the New York Times -- which launched a wave of international media focus on the event -- described how the Soviet Army, which was situated less than ten kilometers from Warsaw, failed to help the Poles.

What the Times did not mention is that while the Russians refused to help, the Americans and the British did try. In August and September, British planes flew numerous missions to drop supplies into Warsaw. Even though Royal Air Force commanders concluded that the effort had "achieved practically nothing," President Roosevelt ordered U.S. planes to take part. The largest air-drop took place on September 18, when a fleet of 107 U.S. bombers dropped more than 1,200 containers of arms and supplies into Warsaw. Less than 300 of the containers reached the Polish fighters; the Germans confiscated the rest.

An internal Roosevelt administration assessment of the effort noted that the U.S. knew beforehand that "the Partisan fight was a losing one" and "large numbers of planes would be tied up for long periods of time and lost to the main strategic effort against Germany." The Roosevelt administration was willing to divert planes from the war effort to aid a revolt that was doomed to defeat -- while at the very same time, falsely claiming it could not spare a few bombs to hit the Auschwitz gas chambers because that would divert resources from the war effort.

The Poles were viewed by FDR as an ally -- and as a people whose relatives in America constituted an important voting bloc in a presidential election year. Roosevelt administration officials feared Polish-American voters would turn against FDR in November if they believed he was ready to abandon Polish aspirations for independence and permit the Soviet occupation of postwar Poland. In his private diary that summer, senior State Department official Breckinridge Long wrote that Polish-Americans were "popping off in a nationalistic (Polish) direction" and "they may hold the balance of power in votes in Illinois, Ohio, and New York -- and Pennsylvania..."

By contrast, Roosevelt believed (correctly) that he had the Jewish vote in his pocket. Convinced the vast majority of American Jews would vote for him anyway, FDR felt no political pressure to bomb the gas chambers, or loosen America's tight immigration procedures, or even to ask England to open Palestine to Jewish refugees.

August is a month of remembrance. The brave Polish revolt against the Germans, and the noble Allied effort to aid the rebels, deserve to be remembered with pride. The Allies' refusal to bomb the Auschwitz gas chambers while bombing the nearby oil factories, and their claims about not being able to divert planes even while they did divert planes to the hopeless Warsaw uprising, should be remembered with shame.

RichardP
08-18-2004, 08:37 AM
There were many incidents in our history during WWII, we should be shamefaced; this inaction is high on the list. It’s encouraging; nevertheless, to see articles on the non-bombing of Auschwitz, it shouldn’t be forgotten.
There were many excuses put forward, about the inaction; however, it rings hollow to me. I feel, and I believe rightly, that saving Jewish lives was at rock-bottom of their priorities.
Yes it would be a dangerous sorties for the pilots, that’s a given with any mission. Yet, I’m sure, there were men willing and able to take on this task.
Noteworthy thread; rightly, this should never be forgotten.

Mil
08-18-2004, 08:44 AM
In all practical terms bombing of Auzwitz was a physical impossibility. The bomber force would have been decimated on the way.

Even if Auzwitz would be bombed what would it do exactly? The intensive bombing compaign did not stop too many German factories and this is a concentration camp.

Mediocrates
08-18-2004, 08:58 AM
Well if they had crippled the gas chambers and crematoria it would have slowed down the slaughter because the Germans, ever the practical ones, were faced with a real production line problem where they simply had to industrialise their murder and body disposal machinery in order to do away with as many Jews as they did. They tried for years to shoot people in ditches or hook up truck exhausts to sealed rooms and they just couldn't achieve the kind of mass death production efficiencies they could with the death factories. If we had destroyed the death factories they would not have been as able to kill people on such a wide scale.

RichardP
08-18-2004, 09:04 AM
You do have a point, Mil; they had to set-off from the Mediterranean area. I read, too, that there were natural hazards, as well as the obvious; the Luftwaffe.
Would it have accomplished anything? It would have shown, perhaps, the enslaved, that there was hope, sort-of speak. Today, we also seem to see things militarily, in contemporary terms, pin-point bombing etc. This wasn't the case back then. Though, I have read articles by veteran flyers, who insist it could have been accomplished... it's one of those arguments which will go on for decades.
There have been debates, too, about their not bombing the rail-lines leading to other camps, as well.
Most upsetting to me are the Jews attempting to seek refuge from Nazism, being turned away by Canada, the US and other western-democracies. Canada’s blatant anti-Semitism, and inaction, hangs heavily, in my heart.

Mil
08-18-2004, 10:55 AM
Rich,

Today we have Israel equipped with one of the strongest armies in the world with firepower greater then all of Wermacht was ever capable of. Don't warry - there will not be another Holocaust.

On the matter of bombing Auzwitz; it would have accomplished absolutely nothing. The crematoriums would have been rebuilt in no-time and the gassing would still go on. The only thing that could have saved more lives at Auzwitz would have been some kind of a Soviet offensive directed specifically at Auzwitz sometime in 1944 - over 1,000,000 Soviet POWs died or were processed through Berkenau.

RichardP
08-18-2004, 11:05 AM
Oh, I do agree, mostly, Mil, and yes, I did mean to mention (I didn't have the numbers at hand) the number of Soviet prisoners murdered there, and in other camps. If they were (un)fortunate to make it that far, which most weren't. Although, you didn't say it, my heart is over-ruling my brain on this issue, which is easy to do. I believe you mentioned your Grandfather was in the Red Army, you have a direct handle on the horrors (to put it mildly) they suffered, as well.

Mil
08-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Posted by RichardP:


and in other camps.


Out of 4.5 million captured Red Army personal 3 million never came home. Death rate in captivity %67!!!!! On the other hand out of 3 million Germans captured during the war by the Soviets 2 million came home - death rate in captivity of 33%.

I believe you mentioned your Grandfather was in the Red Army, you have a direct handle on the horrors (to put it mildly) they suffered, as well.

My grandfather visited Auzwitz three days after the liberation. Given two years of war already behind him what he saw at Auzwitz shocked even him. The other slaughter house he was shocked by was the Balkans (Yugoslavia).

eyl
08-18-2004, 10:35 PM
I'm not sure they had the capability to do that. One of the primary reasons for the massed bomber sorties of WWII was that the bombs of the era were extremely inaccurate (on the order of hundreds of meters or more). Bombing the crematoria and gas chambers would have probably required flattenng the entire camp. Bombing the railways would have been even more difficult (being much smaller targets), and they could have been replaced fairly fast. While the allies could have done much more to save Jews (in particular, allowed entry to refugees), bombing or not bombing the camps wasn't so clear-cut a decision.


Well if they had crippled the gas chambers and crematoria it would have slowed down the slaughter because the Germans, ever the practical ones, were faced with a real production line problem where they simply had to industrialise their murder and body disposal machinery in order to do away with as many Jews as they did. They tried for years to shoot people in ditches or hook up truck exhausts to sealed rooms and they just couldn't achieve the kind of mass death production efficiencies they could with the death factories. If we had destroyed the death factories they would not have been as able to kill people on such a wide scale.

golani
08-19-2004, 01:09 PM
I'm not sure they had the capability to do that. One of the primary reasons for the massed bomber sorties of WWII was that the bombs of the era were extremely inaccurate (on the order of hundreds of meters or more). Bombing the crematoria and gas chambers would have probably required flattenng the entire camp. Bombing the railways would have been even more difficult (being much smaller targets), and they could have been replaced fairly fast. While the allies could have done much more to save Jews (in particular, allowed entry to refugees), bombing or not bombing the camps wasn't so clear-cut a decision.

I do not agree.
It is true that heavy ,high ceiling bomber, like B17s,even fitted with norden device would have had trouble to pinpoint gaz chambers, medium low ceiling B25 or B26s would have been very accurate for that task

Allies knew everything and did nothing,that is the sad and plain truth

Mil
08-19-2004, 01:26 PM
B25 or B26s would have been very accurate for that task

And when did B25 and B26 come into service?

golani
08-19-2004, 10:41 PM
B25 or B26s would have been very accurate for that task

And when did B25 and B26 come into service?

B25 :first flight 1940
Service 1942 ( eg: doolittle raid on Tokyo)
B26 flight 1940
firtst deliveries 1941
And I did not mention de havilland mosquito who could do the job too

insight
08-31-2004, 02:23 PM
We either learn from history or history repeats itself. US & Israel should stop monetary and arms support of terror supporting, states and organizations

Other Related Articles:
Antisemitism in NYC Schools, Then and Now (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=3460)
Lobbying Against Genocide Then and Now (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=3418)
Bus Bomb Photos: A Lesson From the Holocaust (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=3313)
Hitler Analogies: Dumb and Dangerous (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=3189)

The Day the Americans Bombed Auschwitz (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php?id=4049)by Dr. Rafael Medoff
Aug 12, '04 / 25 Av 5764

Much has been written and said in recent years about the failure of the Roosevelt administration to order the bombing of Auschwitz. What is not widely known is that sixty years ago this month, U.S. bombers did strike Auschwitz.

Auschwitz is most infamous for its Birkenau section, where the gas chambers and crematoria were situated. An estimated 1.6 million people were murdered there. Less well known is that Auschwitz also contained dozens of slave labor camps. One was known as Buna-Monowitz, where the Germans had set up factories for the production of synthetic oil, which was crucial to their war effort. In the summer of 1944, U.S. and British bombers began hitting the oil factories. On August 20, they dropped over 1,300 bombs on the oil factories of Auschwitz, less than five miles from the gas chambers.

Throughout that summer, American Jewish organizations repeatedly asked the Roosevelt administration to order the bombing of Auschwitz. The War Department rejected the requests as "impracticable" because they would require "considerable diversion" of planes needed for the war effort. U.S. officials claimed the War Department had conducted a "study" and found that bombing Auschwitz was not militarily feasible. That claim was false. No such study had been done.

The real reason for the refusal was that the War Department had already secretly decided, back in February 1944, that as a matter of principle it would never use military resources "for the purposes of rescuing victims of enemy oppression." This policy was in accord with the policies of President Roosevelt and his State Department, who feared that saving Jews would create pressure to bring them to the United States. One internal State Department memo specifically warned against the "danger" that the Nazis "might agree to turn over to the United States and to Great Britain a large number of Jewish refugees."

Ironically, the very same month that the Americans were bombing the Auschwitz oil factories while claiming they could not divert planes to hit the gas chambers, they were diverting planes for another purpose.

In August 1944, the Polish Home Army rose up against the Germans in Warsaw. That valiant but hopeless eight-week revolt was commemorated recently in Poland with nationwide commemorative ceremonies. World leaders, including U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroder, attended. A feature story in the New York Times -- which launched a wave of international media focus on the event -- described how the Soviet Army, which was situated less than ten kilometers from Warsaw, failed to help the Poles.

What the Times did not mention is that while the Russians refused to help, the Americans and the British did try. In August and September, British planes flew numerous missions to drop supplies into Warsaw. Even though Royal Air Force commanders concluded that the effort had "achieved practically nothing," President Roosevelt ordered U.S. planes to take part. The largest air-drop took place on September 18, when a fleet of 107 U.S. bombers dropped more than 1,200 containers of arms and supplies into Warsaw. Less than 300 of the containers reached the Polish fighters; the Germans confiscated the rest.

An internal Roosevelt administration assessment of the effort noted that the U.S. knew beforehand that "the Partisan fight was a losing one" and "large numbers of planes would be tied up for long periods of time and lost to the main strategic effort against Germany." The Roosevelt administration was willing to divert planes from the war effort to aid a revolt that was doomed to defeat -- while at the very same time, falsely claiming it could not spare a few bombs to hit the Auschwitz gas chambers because that would divert resources from the war effort.

The Poles were viewed by FDR as an ally -- and as a people whose relatives in America constituted an important voting bloc in a presidential election year. Roosevelt administration officials feared Polish-American voters would turn against FDR in November if they believed he was ready to abandon Polish aspirations for independence and permit the Soviet occupation of postwar Poland. In his private diary that summer, senior State Department official Breckinridge Long wrote that Polish-Americans were "popping off in a nationalistic (Polish) direction" and "they may hold the balance of power in votes in Illinois, Ohio, and New York -- and Pennsylvania..."

By contrast, Roosevelt believed (correctly) that he had the Jewish vote in his pocket. Convinced the vast majority of American Jews would vote for him anyway, FDR felt no political pressure to bomb the gas chambers, or loosen America's tight immigration procedures, or even to ask England to open Palestine to Jewish refugees.

August is a month of remembrance. The brave Polish revolt against the Germans, and the noble Allied effort to aid the rebels, deserve to be remembered with pride. The Allies' refusal to bomb the Auschwitz gas chambers while bombing the nearby oil factories, and their claims about not being able to divert planes even while they did divert planes to the hopeless Warsaw uprising, should be remembered with shame.

dear Batman,

All the facts you've communicate to us are perfectly the thruth......You are emphasing about the bombing of the gaz chambers in auschwitz......but never a bomber receive the order to bomb ,not Auschwitz but only some railways.....to stop some trains.......Roosevelt sayd : no....!!
And W.Churchill says.....I don't want that my people could think i'm doing a war for the Jews......!! He was not very pro-save the life of Jewish people ,because he said : no one more Jew in Palestina...and maybe you now what's happend with the poor Jewish refugees on two boats ...about .3000 people who can escape from the german hands in 1941 and wanted to reach Haifa.....they finally reach Haifa but half of them where dies( typhus) and the rest in very bad condition ,just because Churchill sent many telegram in order to slow down thoses boats ,they where stock about for one year in cyprius....and when finally the rest of them reach Haifa ....the british shoot at them and killed a lot ,the survivors where sent in a very far island ( maybe the French Réunion)......and Sweden and Switzerland where not too god for us .....and even a majority of very high class people in U.S..................but is a long and sad story of hate and greed...as usual....

Hugs to you Batman....

Insight....

insight
08-31-2004, 02:40 PM
In all practical terms bombing of Auzwitz was a physical impossibility. The bomber force would have been decimated on the way.

Even if Auzwitz would be bombed what would it do exactly? The intensive bombing compaign did not stop too many German factories and this is a concentration camp.

Dear MIL....

Auschwitz was not only a concentration camp ,one part of Auschwitz was organized and they where a lot of important factories ,producing ...amunitions...oil...devices ....various equipments ........etc etc ...and they "employed" 50.000 peoples (slaves), when they where "tired " they where sent to the gaz chambers..only a very good specialist or a recommanded could stay for long....Auschwitz where divided and five very big part.....Birkenau was the place where they exterminated our people immediately......near 1944 they where able to assassinate 24000 people in per day......!! and it has been a bombing in Auschwitz ,but only over the oil production site (which was very important for the nazis.....planes...panzer....every mechanical device need oil ...and plane a very special type.....

Hugs to you ....(and me).......

Insight.

Mil
08-31-2004, 02:46 PM
Auzwitz wasn't much of a production facility - nothing that would do anything to the German ability to fight. Bombing Auzwitz in all practical terms would have been a waste and accomplish absolutely nothing - as sad as it sounds.

varian
09-05-2004, 04:33 PM
The US couldn't seem to find any reason to bomb certain factories in Europe that were aiding the Nazi war machine; those in which industrialists from the US had vital interests. One of those industrialists was none other than the infamous, anti-semite, Henry Ford. The useless politics of war!?!