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Ophra
08-18-2004, 10:18 AM
Making an impression

Lapid is right. It is better to do without two mandates than to sit in opposition and be irrelevant.
Yael Paz-Melamed

Approximately two years ago, two parties set out on a journey. Shinui with 15 mandates joined the coalition and received important portfolios including Interior, Justice and National Infrastructure Ministries. Meretz, with six mandates, remained in opposition and that’s it. It has more or less disappeared from the national agenda.

Since the platforms of the two parties, as least as they relate to issues of religion and state and religious coercion, are quite similar, this situation provides an opportunity to analyze the advantages of being in the government as opposed to the opposition and thereby understand how important it is that Lapid and his 14 colleagues remain in the government and not leave the field open for Shas and United Torah Judaism.

In the last elections, I never considered voting for Shinui. I did not consider Yossef Lapid a serious leader. I was not acquainted with other members of his list. Like many others, I had the convenient option of voting for Meretz, which promised the same things that Lapid promised his voters, perhaps without Shinui’s concern for the middle class. On substantive issues including releasing the nation from the heavy burden of ultra-Orthodox rule and their dangerous battle for the an ever larger share of the pie, I trusted Meretz more than Shinui. On the diplomatic front, Meretz was, and remains, much more committed than Shinui to peace, including returning territories and evacuating settlements. The choice seemed easy, almost automatic.

Fortunately, many others thought otherwise. Two years later, everything I wanted from Meretz, I received from Shinui. There is one reason for this. Meretz is in opposition. Shinui is in the government. True, the number of Knesset members is also important but if Shinui were in opposition, its 15 MKs would not have been adequate to close the Ministry of Religious Affairs and disband the Religious Councils, for example.

Even a convincing media appearance by Lapid would have been useless for changing the law to allow civil marriages for those who cannot or do not what to marry in the rabbinate. If Shinui were not in the government, disengagement would have a chance, even though it is the most important process for the Israel today.

If Shinui were not in the government, Effie Eitam would still be Construction Minister and directing budgets to settlements. No one would be there to stop him. Most important, Shas would continue to use our money to build itself as an Jewish law alternative to the democratic rule of law. The great power that Shinui and its leader, Yossef Lapid, have derives from the promises that they made to their voters (yes, despite the compromise on UTJ) but, even more so, because from their decision to position themselves at the junction where they can influence the decision making process.

It is very sad to discover that in the politics of 2004, being in opposition is like being on ice. It is cold, wet and does not bring any benefit. When politics that are managed through the media and on prime-time news at 8:00 pm, a member of the opposition do not have a chance to be heard on substantive issues. At most, he might get a minute to read the spokesman’s response to something a minister said earlier.

The opposition has no influence and a politician without influence gets to vote in the Knesset but not much more. There is more than a little hypocrisy in the idea that the politicians in opposition are more honest because they are playing the game for principles, not for the chair. Anyone who wants to implement his principles needs to be in the place where things get done, in the government. Someone who wants to make an impression needs tough, strong hands to press the die. This is not a game for gentle souls.

Former minister Eitam will feel it soon. As long as he sat at the rectangular table with the pastry and juice, he had the power to push for his principles. The moment that a national unity government is sworn in, the National Religious Party will no longer be able to influence the prime minister. It will become irrelevant. From his perspective, he may be right. He may have principles but he doesn’t political wisdom. Fortunately for secular people in the center and on the left, Yossef Lapid decided that it is preferable for him to forgo two mandates in the surveys than to join the opposition and have extra time to play chess, which he loves.

http://www.maarivenglish.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=10583

Mediocrates
08-18-2004, 10:39 AM
Break it down for the rest of us please.

Ophra
08-18-2004, 09:36 PM
Break it down for the rest of us please.

It's very simple Mediocrates ..... we want early elections ... after yesterday's Likud fiasco the chance of that has increased.
I don't think Yossef Lapid will be playing much chess soon ;) ....... and Effie Eitam had better find a time consuming hobby :)

Oh Jerusalem
08-19-2004, 03:11 AM
after yesterday's Likud fiasco
Why was the Likud meeting yesterday a fiasco? :confused:

Ophra
08-19-2004, 05:56 PM
Why was the Likud meeting yesterday a fiasco?

The Likud is now a party without a leader and a leader without a party.

Oh Jerusalem
08-19-2004, 09:11 PM
The Likud is now a party without a leader and a leader without a party.
It has been for quite some time. Not just since Wednesday evening.

But the party held true to their principles. And in that sense, Wednesday evening was no a fiasco for the Likud but the 4th fiasco for Sharon and his supporters.

Next step is the Likud ammendment in the works that would have violators of the Likud's charter, like Sharon and Olmert, tossed out of the party.

Ophra
08-20-2004, 12:32 AM
Next step is the Likud amendment in the works that would have violators of the Likud's charter, like Sharon and Olmert, tossed out of the party.

Oh I hope so.... I would like that very very much..... imagine it OJ ... Sharon's new party united with Shinui and Avodah !!
Wooooo ... new elections here we come.

Oh Jerusalem
08-20-2004, 12:55 AM
Oh I hope so.... I would like that very very much..... imagine it OJ ... Sharon's new party united with Shinui and Avodah !!
Wooooo ... new elections here we come.
I'm all for cleaning up the Likud. I'm all for new elections, even though chances are Shinui and Likud will team up together and possibly run the country into the ground.

Then we'll suffer together in the same boat and we'll tell you (again) "I told you so".

Binyamin
08-20-2004, 03:24 AM
Oh I hope so.... I would like that very very much..... imagine it OJ ... Sharon's new party united with Shinui and Avodah !!
Wooooo ... new elections here we come.
I don't expect Sharon to run again if he won't be part of the Likud. A new party will not be able to get enough seats to give him any worthwhile position, definately not PM. As things stand now, he will not run in the next elections. It is also very possible that he will change his position about the disengagement (not to abandon it compl;etely, but to make significant changes), and then he will run again with the Likud. Either way, Labor will probably lose seats and become less relevant as a coalition partner.

Oh Jerusalem
08-20-2004, 03:39 AM
I'm all for new elections, even though chances are Shinui and Likud will team up together and possibly run the country into the ground.
I made an interesting Freudian slip.

I meant to say that chances are that Shinui and Labor will team up and run the country into the ground.

Makes no difference actually. The current Likud, hijacked by Sharon & Sons has partially done so already.

Mediocrates
08-20-2004, 04:47 AM
I don't expect Sharon to run again if he won't be part of the Likud. A new party will not be able to get enough seats to give him any worthwhile position, definately not PM. As things stand now, he will not run in the next elections. It is also very possible that he will change his position about the disengagement (not to abandon it compl;etely, but to make significant changes), and then he will run again with the Likud. Either way, Labor will probably lose seats and become less relevant as a coalition partner.


Then where does that leave you? I can appreciate "NO" as a political response, but like the people here who say "Anyone But Bush", your situation isn't really a plan either. What do these new coalitions propose to do?


I'd add that if your current govt falls and a new coalition can't get anything accomplished either then it may be time to seriously reevaluate the Parliamentary electoral system in Israel as it currently operates and serious thought should be given to radical reform of the electoral system.

Oh Jerusalem
08-20-2004, 04:55 AM
If Sharon leaves or is kicked out of the Likud, obviously Netanyahu will be running for the top post.

As for radically changing the electoral system here, I wish!

Mediocrates
08-20-2004, 05:04 AM
If Sharon leaves or is kicked out of the Likud, obviously Netanyahu will be running for the top post.

As for radically changing the electoral system here, I wish!


Then where does that leave you? Will Bibi do anything substantially different? Will he focus instead on economic and structural reform in Israel and leave the Yesha issue on the fringes? Why was Bibi so weak and hampered in 96 and what is materially different now?


When I talk about electoral reform I mean things like establishing representative voting wards or districts, reducing or eliminating the tools that cause constant reelections, creating term limits, restucturing the entire cabinet so that it is nonelected - in short creating a system more like the American system with aspects of the German and French electoral government as well.

Oh Jerusalem
08-22-2004, 12:12 AM
Then where does that leave you? Will Bibi do anything substantially different? Will he focus instead on economic and structural reform in Israel and leave the Yesha issue on the fringes? Why was Bibi so weak and hampered in 96 and what is materially different now?
Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with you. I jsut stated what I view as what would happen if elections were called.


When I talk about electoral reform I mean things like establishing representative voting wards or districts, reducing or eliminating the tools that cause constant reelections, creating term limits, restucturing the entire cabinet so that it is nonelected - in short creating a system more like the American system with aspects of the German and French electoral government as well.
I understood that and I (again) agree with you 100%.

Binyamin
08-22-2004, 11:41 AM
The "tool" that causes the constant reelections is Oslo- it would be nice if we could get rid of it!
More seriously, the cause for the reelections is the difficulty of the political situation. We are having a very hard time trying to find an acceptable wqay to deal with the Intifada. I think it is best to leave the electoral system in place and address the bigger problem, realizing that it will still take alot more time and elections.

A strong Likud, led by Sharon but rejecting his disengagement, seconded by Shinui with 10-15 seats, and also having the right-wing parties(NRP and National Union), {same parties as we started with this time, but their strengths will be different} will probably concentrate on economic and social issues, It will sideline the Palestinian issue to a large degree, with no talks and constant military pressure. I think that overall this would be the best approach for the country. (even though I do not like alot of their ideas on the religious issues.)

Oh Jerusalem
08-22-2004, 11:35 PM
A minor tremor.

Rivlin Calling on Sharon & Netanyahu to Split the Pie (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=67764)
10:15 Aug 23, '04 / 6 Elul 5764

(IsraelNN.com) Senior Likud official Knesset Speak Reuven Rivlin is concerned over a possible major split in the party. He is therefore calling on Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu to reach an agreement by which they will rotate the premiership in the next election instead of competing against one another in a party primary – a reality that Rivlin fears may split the party down the middle.

Rivlin feels that if the Likud is elected to power again, the two can rotate the position of prime minister for two years each, working side-by-side instead of forcing party leaders to choose between them for the top party position.