Would you die for Israel?

[AmericaNumber1]

In 1967 when Israel apparently beat the Arabs and captured more land, it was a time period when Arabs did not agree with each other: Lack of communication or downright disagreement.

Now, it's an Information Age. The Internet allows the free exchange of thought, ideas and opinions. It may be the mother of a monster "yet to come"?

However, intelligence operations (Echelon, Carnivore) are not nearly savvy enough to disenfranchise the determined "terrorists". For example, Encryption technologies afford operations to exist incognito.

So, what Israel is facing is a possible Arab reprisal!

Many will say, "Let 'em try it. We'll do what we did in '67, and '73."

Remember, this is not 1967 and 1973. At that time, the Arab defeat was largely a result of lack of communication/abilities. Since were a more technical society, "arabs" - with their wealthy Saudi Arabian motherland - have a much higher stake.

But, what's the possibility of another 1967 or 1973 war?

The prediction I make is based on the Likud Party's lack of inclination for a Palestinian State - something America wants. If Israel denies and resists, this makes America look bad. What are we to say about Arab tensions then, when America feels the peace prospect is determined by the sovereignity of the Palestinians? We dont JUSTIFY an Arab uprising, but we will understand.

This would only be a point after lack of will to negotiate, which the Likud Party has already made clear: No Palestinian State = No Negotiations for a Palestinian State.

So, will Americans be expected to bail Israel out of the mess their digging themselves deeper into? Or, who will come to their aid when Saddam Hussein, and Arafat combine forces along with the Egyptian leaders, Lebanon and possibly Saudi Arabia?

Americans will be saying, "Should have listened, Israel".

[L@mplighterM]

Can I send a few of my neighbors instead?

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by AmericaNumber1

So, will Americans be expected to bail Israel out of the mess their digging themselves deeper into? Or, who will come to their aid when Saddam Hussein, and Arafat combine forces along with the Egyptian leaders, Lebanon and possibly Saudi Arabia?

Americans will be saying, "Should have listened, Israel".

There won't be any bailing out, only backing off to let Israel fight terrorism and evil just as Bush has pledged to fight them where he finds them.

I don't think you'll find Sharon shaking in his boots any time soon. If the wealthy Arab States had the will or ability to challenge Israel militarily they would have done so long since. The only reason the regimes in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan are still in power is because the US pressured Isreal to stop those two wars early.

It takes a lot more than technology. It takes vast amounts of training, leadership, and infrastructure. Starting from the current pathetic state of there militarys it would also take a significant outside patron to develop and implement the training. Such their former partner USSR. Who would fill that roll now?

The US will never stand back and let Sadman Hussein do anything with his military. He launches one Scud and you just watch how quickly we pounce. :)

[christian]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pathfinder
[B]

There won't be any bailing out, only backing off to let Israel fight terrorism and evil just as Bush has pledged to fight them where he finds them.

Look at South Vietnam. It is proven if the cost is too great for American. American will pull out. I think the Arabs know their strategy very well. This time they are using soft tactic, such as oil, economy, charming ally,


It takes a lot more than technology. It takes vast amounts of training, leadership, and infrastructure. Starting from the current pathetic state of there militarys it would also take a significant outside patron to develop and implement the training. Such their former partner USSR. Who would fill that roll now?

Perhaps, Afghastan war is a perfect example of low tech vs high tech. It is not in the 50's anymore. If you cut off a organization head. His head will grow into bodies. His bodies will grow. If you blow them up. IT is like a mutant. There are more monster coming at you. No country occupator in the world dare to do the ethnic cleasing. At the end, the occupator will lose.
The US will never stand back and let Sadman Hussein do anything with his military. He launches one Scud and you just watch how quickly we pounce. :)

The reason US win the war, because the international body supports him. That is the big five countries in the UN council. In the case of Afghastan, all the big four disagree with Russian occupation. In this case, Europe is split between the arabs and Israel. It doesn't look very well. Unless, Le Pen or Extreme right wing facist will take over. Europe will help Israel against Arabs. Then Sharon will have a bed buddy.

[Mediocrates]

For every hour in the air one of those high tech F16's spends it needs two hours maintenance and parts on the ground. The Saudi Air force and most of its mobile ground forces would be rusting in the sun in 2 months if we didn't send them parts and technical advisors. The Saudis know all too well the downside of outsourcing your army to the US. And BTW that army is what backs up the local forces and keeps the local rabble from scaling the palace walls to put some Saud heads on pikes. Saudi Arabia is 5 decades from the Bronze Age and one messed up UPS shipment from the next revolution.

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by christian
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pathfinder
[B]

There won't be any bailing out, only backing off to let Israel fight terrorism and evil just as Bush has pledged to fight them where he finds them.

Look at South Vietnam. It is proven if the cost is too great for American. American will pull out. I think the Arabs know their strategy very well. This time they are using soft tactic, such as oil, economy, charming ally,


It takes a lot more than technology. It takes vast amounts of training, leadership, and infrastructure. Starting from the current pathetic state of there militarys it would also take a significant outside patron to develop and implement the training. Such their former partner USSR. Who would fill that roll now?

I do appreciate your input Christian. It is the first time I have had the opportunity to chat with someone from China. Thanks

Perhaps, Afghastan war is a perfect example of low tech vs high tech. It is not in the 50's anymore. If you cut off a organization head. His head will grow into bodies. His bodies will grow. If you blow them up. IT is like a mutant. There are more monster coming at you. No country occupator in the world dare to do the ethnic cleasing. At the end, the occupator will lose.
The US will never stand back and let Sadman Hussein do anything with his military. He launches one Scud and you just watch how quickly we pounce. :)

The reason US win the war, because the international body supports him. That is the big five countries in the UN council. In the case of Afghastan, all the big four disagree with Russian occupation. In this case, Europe is split between the arabs and Israel. It doesn't look very well. Unless, Le Pen or Extreme right wing facist will take over. Europe will help Israel against Arabs. Then Sharon will have a bed buddy.



You're right. If the cost were 58,000 dead GIs with negligible gain for the world's security the US would pull out. But its not a valid analogy for Afganistan or the ME. What were the US casualties in Persian Gulf...less than 200 and that against an opposing force greater than all the other Arab armies in the region combined. How about Afganistan? What, about 2 dozen casualties.

Your're right. Afganistan is a perfect example of low tech vs high tech. The results: One of the most brutal, repressive, regimes in the world is gone. One of the worlds largest terror organizations is mostly destroyed or dismantled. And the people of the land, refugees for decades, are returning by the hundreds of thousands to the hope of peace, freedom, and democracy.
All this at the cost of a handfull of US casualties.

You are mistaken about the impact of the International Coalition on the Persion Gulf War. With the exception of Great Britain, the international community only provided moral and sybolic support. More than 90% of the firepower, manpower, and financial support came from the US. The outcome would have been no different had the US been entirely alone.

[britishchap]

Originally posted by AmericaNumber1
In 1967 when Israel apparently beat the Arabs and captured more land, it was a time period when Arabs did not agree with each other: Lack of communication or downright disagreement.

Now, it's an Information Age. The Internet allows the free exchange of thought, ideas and opinions. It may be the mother of a monster "yet to come"?

However, intelligence operations (Echelon, Carnivore) are not nearly savvy enough to disenfranchise the determined "terrorists". For example, Encryption technologies afford operations to exist incognito.

So, what Israel is facing is a possible Arab reprisal!

Many will say, "Let 'em try it. We'll do what we did in '67, and '73."

Remember, this is not 1967 and 1973. At that time, the Arab defeat was largely a result of lack of communication/abilities. Since were a more technical society, "arabs" - with their wealthy Saudi Arabian motherland - have a much higher stake.

But, what's the possibility of another 1967 or 1973 war?

The prediction I make is based on the Likud Party's lack of inclination for a Palestinian State - something America wants. If Israel denies and resists, this makes America look bad. What are we to say about Arab tensions then, when America feels the peace prospect is determined by the sovereignity of the Palestinians? We dont JUSTIFY an Arab uprising, but we will understand.

This would only be a point after lack of will to negotiate, which the Likud Party has already made clear: No Palestinian State = No Negotiations for a Palestinian State.

So, will Americans be expected to bail Israel out of the mess their digging themselves deeper into? Or, who will come to their aid when Saddam Hussein, and Arafat combine forces along with the Egyptian leaders, Lebanon and possibly Saudi Arabia?

Americans will be saying, "Should have listened, Israel".

Been away from this fine forum for too long and was just reading a few threads which the "related threads" led me to this post.

Big scary saddam will eat little Israel says our chum....worth bumping for the laugh factor really IMHO. :D

[varian]

Give a holler when Israel starts to enlist a Goyim Brigade. I fought in a useless war in a land far, far away for a useless cause. I live in a country that is ashamed of its patriots, and ignorant of its own freedoms and greatness. While it has many marvelous war toys, there are not enough to wage a protracted battle. Although many of its battle strategies work well in desert terrain (similar to strategies that failed in SE Asian jungles); future conflicts will not allow the luxury of taking ones time to amass another unopposed large battle group into a region before initiating hostilities. The next time the forces will have to be in place and ready to go long before the first volleys are fired. Preemptive warfare may be the only means to future survival. In short, fighting for the survival of the nation of Israel is a most worthy cause to me. When they start a Goyim Brigade, let me know. Those who will, will come to her aid.

[Gilgamesh]

In Israel's war of independence, Nov 1947-1949, Jews faced another genocide attempt, and thwarted it.

Beynned thousands of Jews, world wide, Few non Jews WWII veterans, enlisted to the IDF as soldiers and as instructors. Purely from ideological reasons. Their help was crusial and improtant, and their secrifices will never be forgotten.

I must add, that far more Goyims, mostly former Nazi SS, joined the Arab forces, to finnish the job they've started, work as conculers and to win a safe heaven from Holocaust survivour vengiance and world's justice making.

[OntheRight]

Originally posted by AmericaNumber1
In 1967 when Israel apparently beat the Arabs and captured more land, it was a time period when Arabs did not agree with each other: Lack of communication or downright disagreement.

Now, it's an Information Age. The Internet allows the free exchange of thought, ideas and opinions. It may be the mother of a monster "yet to come"?

However, intelligence operations (Echelon, Carnivore) are not nearly savvy enough to disenfranchise the determined "terrorists". For example, Encryption technologies afford operations to exist incognito.

So, what Israel is facing is a possible Arab reprisal!

Many will say, "Let 'em try it. We'll do what we did in '67, and '73."
Isreal won these wars while still being outnumbered and against all odds. Better communications would not and will not help the arabs. God has interviened on Israels behalf since its inception. He will continue to interviene on her behalf. remember David and Golith?

Remember, this is not 1967 and 1973. At that time, the Arab defeat was largely a result of lack of communication/abilities. Since were a more technical society, "arabs" - with their wealthy Saudi Arabian motherland - have a much higher stake.

But, what's the possibility of another 1967 or 1973 war?

The prediction I make is based on the Likud Party's lack of inclination for a Palestinian State - something America wants. If Israel denies and resists, this makes America look bad. What are we to say about Arab tensions then, when America feels the peace prospect is determined by the sovereignity of the Palestinians? We dont JUSTIFY an Arab uprising, but we will understand.
Palestinians were thrown fron Jordan and Syria. they should be thrown from Isreal. This is the Israelis land, it was given to them by the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob.

This would only be a point after lack of will to negotiate, which the Likud Party has already made clear: No Palestinian State = No Negotiations for a Palestinian State.

So, will Americans be expected to bail Israel out of the mess their digging themselves deeper into? Or, who will come to their aid when Saddam Hussein, and Arafat combine forces along with the Egyptian leaders, Lebanon and possibly Saudi Arabia?
In case you have not heard Saddam is in American custody

Americans will be saying, "Should have listened, Israel".

[andak01]

Originally posted by Pathfinder
What, about 2 dozen casualties.

Only off by a factor of five.

[Frans_1]

Andak, if at some point, things got truly desperate for Israel, would you consider going there for humanitarian purposes ?

[MGB8]

This guy is a joke.

Wow. First, the Arab failures were not failures of communications, which were fine for the time. They were failures of training and strategy, not to mention some divine luck on the part of Israel.

However, since then, Israel is in stronger position militarily, has increased the training and technology gaps, and has nuclear weapons.

Hmm...I'm scared...really.

In the future the Arabs might close these gaps (hence we need to retain parts of the WB and the great majority of the Golan)...however, for the forseeable future, no directly military assault from the Arab world has any hope of success. That's why they use oil and terror.

Schmuck.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by MGB8
This guy is a joke.

Wow. First, the Arab failures were not failures of communications, which were fine for the time. They were failures of training and strategy, not to mention some divine luck on the part of Israel.

However, since then, Israel is in stronger position militarily, has increased the training and technology gaps, and has nuclear weapons.

Hmm...I'm scared...really.

In the future the Arabs might close these gaps (hence we need to retain parts of the WB and the great majority of the Golan)...however, for the forseeable future, no directly military assault from the Arab world has any hope of success. That's why they use oil and terror.

Schmuck.

Simply put, yes, I would die for Israel. Though, I would in all likelihood be more of a hindrance, than help.
Those of us who place great value in their Jewishness; as well, believing the State of Israel has the right to thrive and exist: will eventually have to draw a line in the sand. Not to mention, all of those whom value living in a democracy, be it Israel or elsewhere. I trust many Christians, as well, will draw a line in the sand in alliance with Israel. I certainly hope I‘m right in saying this, and believe I am.
Those hoodwinked by the leftwing leadership, media and those who sleep with the Islam-Fascist cause… will, if ever, eventually see their folly, but sadly, for them, much too late.

[Kev]

A quote I saw elsewhere today!

Regarding the comment above:

Since were a more technical society, "arabs" - with their wealthy Saudi Arabian motherland - have a much higher stake.





1) In the Arab world, MEMRI contends that the illiteracy rate, often said to be 50%, is actually 80%.

2) The number of books per person in Europe is 10 times the number of books per person in Africa and the Middle East combined.

3) The number of books translated into Arabic in the last one thousand (1000) years is equal to the number of books translated into Spanish in one (1) year.

4) Between 1980 and 1999, the number of patents from Arab countries in the United States was 370. During that same time period, the number of patents from South Korea alone was 16,328.

5) In the Arab world, the number of computers per 1000 people is 18. The number of computers per person world wide, including poor nations, is 78 per 1000 people.

6) At the Google headquarters in Silicon Valley, there is a large map with lights that show the number of searches going on at any given time. The world is bright except for the region stretching from Morocco to the border of India, which is all but dark.

7) At Davos, the outsourcing of high-tech jobs is discussed; India, Mexico, and China are mentioned, but not a single mention of any country in the Arab world is made. None has the infrastructure, productivity, or educational system that can support such jobs.

[SteveMetch]

“No one ever won a war dying for their country. You win by making the other SOB die for his country.”
George Patton

Would I die for Israel? No. Would I risk my life if called to defend Israel against the Muslims who routinely murder innocent civilians by design Yes.

Freedom isn’t Free. and Islam is an enternal enemy of the modern world.

The problem is that they are so pathetic when it comes to western warfare. Their culture could never produce the weapons they buy from the west in which we use targets as we blast right through them. This is why they must hide behind innocent people and attack innocent people. Their only way to attack us is through WMD. That is why the US has such a strong reaction to any terrorist nation that has or is in the process of developing these types of weapons. It is our sole weak spot and they know it.

[frizzer1]

Originally posted by SteveMetch
[B

The problem is that they are so pathetic when it comes to western warfare. Their culture could never produce the weapons they buy from the west in which we use targets as we blast right through them. This is why they must hide behind innocent people and attack innocent people. Their only way to attack us is through WMD. That is why the US has such a strong reaction to any terrorist nation that has or is in the process of developing these types of weapons. It is our sole weak spot and they know it. [/B]

Nevertheless,and although we can argue about the reasons,Israel almost went under in 73.