Blue Moon
05-17-2002, 07:41 AM
For the time being, let's stop this nonsensical spinning regarding the historical facts of the Middle East.
Face it. No matter how much hand-wringing, whining, screaming,
or finger-pointing, for the reasons set out below, Israel can not permit a Palestinian state at this time. Why ? It's because the current regime is corrupt and hell-bent on destroying Israel, and the majority of West and Gaza Strip Arabs are not emotionally ready to participate in a responsible soveriegn state that will not cause or permit the murder of Israeli civilians.
There will be only one of two situations that will result here:
1. (a) The corrupt Palestinian leadership will be replaced (by outright military force, by covert operations, and/or bribes in the form of "foreign aide") by a viable, responsible leadership willing and able to think in terms of modern civilization, (b) billions of dollars will be in fact used (not diverted to purchase weapons for the murders of Israeli's) to educate and economically assist non-combatant West and Gaza Strip Arabs in arriving at the 20th century (yes, they have not hit the 20th century yet . . . ), and
(c) the blood libel and virulent hate propoganda against Jews and Isreal that is currently being used in West and Gaza Strip Arab schools, mosques, and media will stop, and (d) the U.S. and Isreal will be forced to take military and covert action to eliminate the terrorist infra-structure in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia - - regimes which apparently are, in fact, in control of, and in bed with Arafat, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the other medieval barbarians.
or,
2. (a) Israel will stop playing the "please, please like me" game with a world that, for the most part, is either indifferent to, or hates the Jews - - a world full of oil prostitutes, and (b) will take over the West Bank and Gaza Strip through military action that would make even military leaders in the bible (yes, the original version) blush.
Discussion:
It seems that many discussion forums, as well as the media, are engaged in a never-ending, cat-chasing-it's tail, game.
Yes, read your history carefully, not just the past 50 or so years, but thousands. You will find out who the true "refugees" are here.
But, this is actually irrelevant. Let's stop spinning endlessly. In real life, "peace" in this region will only take place when the real issues are faced. Let's talk about those:
1. Isreal is a country - - a sovereign, a nation. Try as they and the U.N. and EU may, Israel ain't going away. As a sovereign, they have the same right to defend themselves and declare war as the United States, Britain, ect . . .
2. Remember #1 - - and pointing to 1948 or 1967 gets you and us nowhere. Mexico and the American Indians would probably like the land back that the U.S. murdered and stole from them,
and most countries in the world exist as the result of brutal expansionism and/or war. Are you willing to give your country's land (including your own home) to the people who had it before ?
How far back in time would you have to go ?
Back to the bottom line - - the Arabs have tried to destroy Israel several times and lost. They are not getting it back.
3. No country in this world of ours would have been as patient regarding incessant terrorist attacks on its citizens like Israel has. Look at the U.S. response to 9/11 - - we bombed many innocent civilians, and the majority of Americans didn't care - - they wanted Bin Laden. Period. How would Britain respond ?
Russia ? China ? Or, how about those peace-loving "moderate" Arab countries such as Saudi-Arabia (by the way "moderate" Arab countries apparently means that they really would like to exterminate the Jews, but know they can't because Isreal is too strong) . . .
Can you imagine if ongoing terrorist-murderers took place in in Moscow ? Shanghei ? Mecca ? Jordan ? How would these countries react ? Kremelin ? If the U.S. gets to drop daisy-cutter bombs on Afghanistan, and if every other country gets to use its military might to protect itself, so does Isreal - - the fact that Isreal is a largely Jewish state doesn't mean they have less rights. And, they will continue to enforce such rights.
4. Because of it's right to defend itself, Isreal cannot allow the formation of a Palestinian state at this time. Reason: the Palestinian majority is not ready for statehood. The leadership is corrupt, and headed by a two-faced, lying, serial-killer of Jewish citizens, and Hamas, Islamic Jihad, ect . . . will not stop killing Jews, period. Why ? They like it. They hate Jewish people, they hate Israel, they hate the West, and they will not stand for one grain of sand to be owned by a Jew in the area. By the way, Arafat, the age-old murderous terrorist and his PLO have the same long term plan - - read the PLO charter. To allow a Palestinian state at this time would be inviting suicide. Once a state, the Palestinian goverment would start purchasing heavy artillary to use to attack Isreal. How about a Palestinian airport with a special runway to use for planes filled with suicide bomber-pilots to fly into Isreali neighborhoods, shopping centers, and hi-rises ???? Think about that one. There is no way that any sane Israeli official could permit a Palestinian state until Arafat and the other terrorists are wiped out, an honest regime is installed with democratic elections, and large amounts of money are carefully used to create an honest Palestinian society with some values other than how many Jews have you killed today . . . If you have any questions about this, look at what is happening in Lebanon in the North- the Syrian-backed Hizbollah takes target practice at Israeli towns routinely. So, let me get this straight . . . for "peace", Isreal is supposed to permit an armed West Bank full of terrorists to exist, in addition to the attacks from the North ????
Sounds like a terrific deal to me . . . .
5. Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are financial backers and trainers and organizers of the terrorist-murders in the West Bank and Gaza. They will have to be dealt with too, before the Palestinians can be trusted to go to a Pizza Parlor and actually order a Pizza . . .
6. The innocent Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza have been ripped off by Arafat and his henchmen. Where have the billions of dollars in aid gone - to build respectable universities, and quality hospitals, and employment opportunities and hope ?
Or to purchase more C-4 and 6' nails ?????
7. So, you want peace ??? If you are a Palestinian (i.e. West Bank or Gaza Strip Arab) supporter, then you are going to have to get off YOUR you-know-what, and help reform the terrorities.
Don't blame the U.S., and don't expect Israel to do your dirty work for you. Sure, you can blame Israel all you want. Keep talking about "occupation" while Arafat et.al. continues to rip off the innocent Arabs and cause a situation that will only bring more grief. Yes, keep blaming Israel. The American Indians learned long ago what talk means. By the way, in all sincerity, try pointing a finger or two at the the Arab countries who don't want anything to do with the "refugees" but use them in an admittedly highly-successful machiavellian manner, as puppets to deflect their own murderous-corrupt and oppressive regimes, and to cause as much grief as possible to Israel - - hoping for it's ultimate demise.
By the way, he is the fool that thinks that Israel will stand by forever while her citizens are murdered and maimed. Like any other country, Isreal will eventually say to itself that trying to appease the largely anti-semitic world gets them nowhere.
They will say, "We have to look-out for ourselves, period. And then, my friends, the West Bank and Gaza Arab terrorist will be saying to themselves, "Gee, occupation was so bad after all."
8. Final point. Suicide bombers are not martyrs. They are not militants. They are murderers, no matter who does it. When an Isreali settler lost his mind and machine-gunned down people praying in a mosk, he was not a "militant". He was a cold-blooded murderer. The American's who massacred the Vietnamese in Mai Lai were not "fighting" - - they were murdering.
While the American colonialist revolutionaries were sometimes caught up in the killing of Tories, they did not have a systematic, state sponsered policy of murdering woman and children and non-combatant males. Only the Arabs do this. Not only is it murder,
it is cowardice. Don't give me this b.s. that they don't have the arms to go against the militarily superior Israel, therefore they have to massacre women and children. It's sick, it's perverse,
and it just underscores how far that society has to go to develop before it can ever be trusted to be a responsible soveriegn.
Face it. No matter how much hand-wringing, whining, screaming,
or finger-pointing, for the reasons set out below, Israel can not permit a Palestinian state at this time. Why ? It's because the current regime is corrupt and hell-bent on destroying Israel, and the majority of West and Gaza Strip Arabs are not emotionally ready to participate in a responsible soveriegn state that will not cause or permit the murder of Israeli civilians.
There will be only one of two situations that will result here:
1. (a) The corrupt Palestinian leadership will be replaced (by outright military force, by covert operations, and/or bribes in the form of "foreign aide") by a viable, responsible leadership willing and able to think in terms of modern civilization, (b) billions of dollars will be in fact used (not diverted to purchase weapons for the murders of Israeli's) to educate and economically assist non-combatant West and Gaza Strip Arabs in arriving at the 20th century (yes, they have not hit the 20th century yet . . . ), and
(c) the blood libel and virulent hate propoganda against Jews and Isreal that is currently being used in West and Gaza Strip Arab schools, mosques, and media will stop, and (d) the U.S. and Isreal will be forced to take military and covert action to eliminate the terrorist infra-structure in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia - - regimes which apparently are, in fact, in control of, and in bed with Arafat, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the other medieval barbarians.
or,
2. (a) Israel will stop playing the "please, please like me" game with a world that, for the most part, is either indifferent to, or hates the Jews - - a world full of oil prostitutes, and (b) will take over the West Bank and Gaza Strip through military action that would make even military leaders in the bible (yes, the original version) blush.
Discussion:
It seems that many discussion forums, as well as the media, are engaged in a never-ending, cat-chasing-it's tail, game.
Yes, read your history carefully, not just the past 50 or so years, but thousands. You will find out who the true "refugees" are here.
But, this is actually irrelevant. Let's stop spinning endlessly. In real life, "peace" in this region will only take place when the real issues are faced. Let's talk about those:
1. Isreal is a country - - a sovereign, a nation. Try as they and the U.N. and EU may, Israel ain't going away. As a sovereign, they have the same right to defend themselves and declare war as the United States, Britain, ect . . .
2. Remember #1 - - and pointing to 1948 or 1967 gets you and us nowhere. Mexico and the American Indians would probably like the land back that the U.S. murdered and stole from them,
and most countries in the world exist as the result of brutal expansionism and/or war. Are you willing to give your country's land (including your own home) to the people who had it before ?
How far back in time would you have to go ?
Back to the bottom line - - the Arabs have tried to destroy Israel several times and lost. They are not getting it back.
3. No country in this world of ours would have been as patient regarding incessant terrorist attacks on its citizens like Israel has. Look at the U.S. response to 9/11 - - we bombed many innocent civilians, and the majority of Americans didn't care - - they wanted Bin Laden. Period. How would Britain respond ?
Russia ? China ? Or, how about those peace-loving "moderate" Arab countries such as Saudi-Arabia (by the way "moderate" Arab countries apparently means that they really would like to exterminate the Jews, but know they can't because Isreal is too strong) . . .
Can you imagine if ongoing terrorist-murderers took place in in Moscow ? Shanghei ? Mecca ? Jordan ? How would these countries react ? Kremelin ? If the U.S. gets to drop daisy-cutter bombs on Afghanistan, and if every other country gets to use its military might to protect itself, so does Isreal - - the fact that Isreal is a largely Jewish state doesn't mean they have less rights. And, they will continue to enforce such rights.
4. Because of it's right to defend itself, Isreal cannot allow the formation of a Palestinian state at this time. Reason: the Palestinian majority is not ready for statehood. The leadership is corrupt, and headed by a two-faced, lying, serial-killer of Jewish citizens, and Hamas, Islamic Jihad, ect . . . will not stop killing Jews, period. Why ? They like it. They hate Jewish people, they hate Israel, they hate the West, and they will not stand for one grain of sand to be owned by a Jew in the area. By the way, Arafat, the age-old murderous terrorist and his PLO have the same long term plan - - read the PLO charter. To allow a Palestinian state at this time would be inviting suicide. Once a state, the Palestinian goverment would start purchasing heavy artillary to use to attack Isreal. How about a Palestinian airport with a special runway to use for planes filled with suicide bomber-pilots to fly into Isreali neighborhoods, shopping centers, and hi-rises ???? Think about that one. There is no way that any sane Israeli official could permit a Palestinian state until Arafat and the other terrorists are wiped out, an honest regime is installed with democratic elections, and large amounts of money are carefully used to create an honest Palestinian society with some values other than how many Jews have you killed today . . . If you have any questions about this, look at what is happening in Lebanon in the North- the Syrian-backed Hizbollah takes target practice at Israeli towns routinely. So, let me get this straight . . . for "peace", Isreal is supposed to permit an armed West Bank full of terrorists to exist, in addition to the attacks from the North ????
Sounds like a terrific deal to me . . . .
5. Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia are financial backers and trainers and organizers of the terrorist-murders in the West Bank and Gaza. They will have to be dealt with too, before the Palestinians can be trusted to go to a Pizza Parlor and actually order a Pizza . . .
6. The innocent Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza have been ripped off by Arafat and his henchmen. Where have the billions of dollars in aid gone - to build respectable universities, and quality hospitals, and employment opportunities and hope ?
Or to purchase more C-4 and 6' nails ?????
7. So, you want peace ??? If you are a Palestinian (i.e. West Bank or Gaza Strip Arab) supporter, then you are going to have to get off YOUR you-know-what, and help reform the terrorities.
Don't blame the U.S., and don't expect Israel to do your dirty work for you. Sure, you can blame Israel all you want. Keep talking about "occupation" while Arafat et.al. continues to rip off the innocent Arabs and cause a situation that will only bring more grief. Yes, keep blaming Israel. The American Indians learned long ago what talk means. By the way, in all sincerity, try pointing a finger or two at the the Arab countries who don't want anything to do with the "refugees" but use them in an admittedly highly-successful machiavellian manner, as puppets to deflect their own murderous-corrupt and oppressive regimes, and to cause as much grief as possible to Israel - - hoping for it's ultimate demise.
By the way, he is the fool that thinks that Israel will stand by forever while her citizens are murdered and maimed. Like any other country, Isreal will eventually say to itself that trying to appease the largely anti-semitic world gets them nowhere.
They will say, "We have to look-out for ourselves, period. And then, my friends, the West Bank and Gaza Arab terrorist will be saying to themselves, "Gee, occupation was so bad after all."
8. Final point. Suicide bombers are not martyrs. They are not militants. They are murderers, no matter who does it. When an Isreali settler lost his mind and machine-gunned down people praying in a mosk, he was not a "militant". He was a cold-blooded murderer. The American's who massacred the Vietnamese in Mai Lai were not "fighting" - - they were murdering.
While the American colonialist revolutionaries were sometimes caught up in the killing of Tories, they did not have a systematic, state sponsered policy of murdering woman and children and non-combatant males. Only the Arabs do this. Not only is it murder,
it is cowardice. Don't give me this b.s. that they don't have the arms to go against the militarily superior Israel, therefore they have to massacre women and children. It's sick, it's perverse,
and it just underscores how far that society has to go to develop before it can ever be trusted to be a responsible soveriegn.