911 In Plane Site

[chrisjohn316]

I just saw this film and I strongly recommend that you do likewise as soon as possible.

* there was no plane strike on the Pentagon on 911.
* the 2nd plane to hit the WTC was described as being a cargo plane and that it had no windows. The plane seemed to ignite something near the nose at the point of impact. It had something, a pod, attached beneath it.

There are no conclusions given but a bunker busting bomb on the pentagon and a US military plane on the WTC are given as possibilities.

Watch the film and make up your own mind. Here in Australia we know our Prime Minister John Howard is a known liar. Yet people like this are in power and exercise power.

I am making no comment about this film other than to say, go and watch it.

If you are an American you have seen your rights taken away. The film asks what rights has Osama Bin Laden taken away and Saddam Hussein?

The following is not in this film but is worth looking into. Where exactly are the WMD? This is a lie. The Government is either incredibily stupid or otherwise mentally defective or it is lying.

The plane over Penn is alledged to have been shot down. The video of Osama confessing is remarkable. We are expected to believe that he just happened to make a tape confessing to the attack and the US military just happened to find it. Too convenient it would seen. Some are saying it is not Osama Bin Laden at all and they are providing photos to show what they claim.

The Bible warns of not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast. I am not a doomsayer but how long must one stand in the rain before grabbing an umbrella?

Something just isn't right here. They cannot all be wrong or are they? Watch "911 In Plane Site" and Mike Moore's film "Fahrenheit 911". You owe it to yourself to be informed. Then make up your own mind.

As I said, our Prime Minister John Howard is a known liar. Do you Americans really think that your leaders are any better?

Are we being lied to? Was 911 the American's Reichstag?

You need to see both films to make a comment. Otherwise you will not know what is being referred to.

We have a right to the truth.

[KSO]

I saw it, seems believable,
But I tend to believe in any conspiracy theory, So I'm not a judge...

[chrisjohn316]

With the pentagon, where is the plane wreckage? They found a few bits here and there but that doesn't mean anything. NONE of the photos and live TV coverage shows real plane wreckage.

A car travels at 160 kms an hour (100 miles), skids, then hits a tree and explodes. Now they will tell you this is what happened and show you a hub cap as proof and a the tree dented and on fire. There is no car but you are told there was. They write it in books and the Government says there was a car. Was there a car or not?

Or how about this one...

A mad King walks out naked and being fearful everyone says what fine new clothes the King has.

Let's try one more experiment.

The Jews are sub human. They are the reason the mighty German nation lost the first world war. They betrayed the German people in the financial markets. The German people are the master race. The enemy burned down our Parliament building. It is in the papers, on the radio, Herr Hitler and everyone who is someone is talking about it. There is only one thing to do, hunt down our enemy to our last breath. Take away their rights because we know better. Sound familiar? But it will never happen again right?

Okay this is so easy let's try the Australian Prime Minister whom I call a liar. You may see him as a good person fighting along side the US but did you know this? He did not order the Navy to rescue some 300 illegal immigrants who all drowned outside Australian terriorial waters. We could have reached them in time.

We have a flat rate tax called the GST, which he said would never ever happen. We have university places that cost over $100,000 which he said would never happen. He said refugees threw their children into the water to force the Navy to rescue them. He said there were witnesses and there was film. Our ministers said it too. It NEVER happened! There was no such film. It has been proven as a lie! No one believes it now. Howard the bastard says he was only relaying information provided... another lie as he was never told that!

They showed film of a boat that had sunk and the Navy was rescuing illegals. About four people were in the water. This was the proof that children had been thrown over board. His own retired staff, prominant Australians all say he is a liar. His own political colleages have been found to call him a "lying rodant". This is the "Great" John Howard shaking the hand of George Bush.

Want more? Check this out!

http://www.johnhowardlies.com/

Also we have children locked behind bars, razor wirer in the what can be only be decribed as remote desert areas. These are the illegal immigrants I think should be sent home as soon as they arrive. They pay thousands of dollars to get here and the needy refugees have no such luck.

However ought we therefore to threat these people like concentration camp inmates? One person has been in such a prison for six years. All these people are Muslim and hey, it wouldn't happen to Christians or Jews, THAT I can promise you.

Now answer me this. Do we let these people get what they deserve because they are Muslims and the fewer Muslims the better or do we say, this is unacceptable. No one ought to be treated this way?

If you think they deserve it and you are a Jew, you are no different to a Nazi. We must never, ever, let people be abused because they are weak and or vulnerable.

There is a saying somewhere, and to paraphrase, they came for those taller than me, but I nothing as it didn't affect me. They then came for those shorter than me and againt I did nothing. Then they came to me and there was no one left to help me.

Treating people badly because they are Muslim is EVIL. Likewise the same applies to Muslims.

Now back to the main theme. This is not a conspiracy theory. It is no theory at all as the film explains.

I do not believe a plane hit the Pentagon. After you see this film neither will you. Now why do they say that is what happened and who are "they"? Something hit the Pentagon and a missile fits the facts.

Who can fire a missile like that? The US military. If they hit the Pentagon the odds are that they are also involved with the 2 WTC and Penn planes. The 2nd plane had no windows and had a pod on the underbelly... we are expected to believe passengers will board such a plane!

How many security camera's around the Pentagon? One? Two? How about from every angle to be able to see every blade of grass on the laws ... that sounds about right. Now why no footage of a plane? Where is a plane in any footage?

We saw the huge fireballs of the WTC planes. There is no such damage at the Pentagon. Look at the TV broadcast footage and very high resolution photos and tell me the US Government isn't lying.

The question in my mind is not what really happened but why did it happen. The only conclusion is an excuse to take more power, like the Nazis did after buring down their own Reichtag.

Write a list of lies told by George Bush. In any case everyone knows the legitimate President of the USA is Al Gore. I am not saying I support Al Gore, but neither will I accept a lie portrayed as truth.

Once I wanted to go to America. Now I never want to set foot there. Once I was very much pro American. Now I am very suspicious of the Government. The American Government is making this once fine nation world wide public enemy number one.

If this trend continues Australia will NOT be a safe destination for Americans. Do not think I jest. The official line and that of the people are separate and you need only look to Jordan. Officially a strong allie, but the people hate Americans. This is happening here too.

Films by Mike Moore and this 911 plane film show us that the US Government is a danger. I know from people I speak with you will be hard pushed to find anyone willing to say something nice about America. Try it! Find some Aussies and ask them.

Now we know this is not the American people for people are typically decent the world over. This is the American Government. No matter how powerful those in power think they are, the people will always be more powerful.

George Bush needs to show footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon. The Pentagon has like a billion cameras but there no footage? You are a liar George Bush!

There is NO conspiraccy theory unless you are part of the lie!

The television news reports camera footage and press photos do NOT lie!

You need to watch these films and see with your own eyes.

If you are an American and fearful of travelling then thank your Government. You personally have done nothing wrong. However your Government is evil.

It is patriotic to tell the truth. 911 is a lie!

[Gabriel]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[chrisjohn316]

Gabriel show me a site that shows footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon.

We all know there are security cameras everywhere. Surely one of them must have picked up something?

There are external and internal cameras. Yet you would have me believe that not one of these cameras recorded any part of the plane?

Also you have obviously NOT seen the film 911 in Plane Site. Had you of seen it you would have noticed that a plane physically never existed.

* No credible plane wreckage.
* The roof collapsed about 30 mins after the strike.
* No footage what so ever of the alledged plane.
* The lawn is NOT burned.
* We see an explosion but no plane ... hello!!!
* We see a computer monitor on a filing cabinate.
* We see a book on a stool.

Where is the camera footage?
Where are there credible parts of the plane?
Where is the crator from the impact?
Where is the damage from the fuel?

Watch the film and you will see that the Pentagon was NOT hit by a plane.

It was definitely hit, but the plane is innocent. It was not a plane but something else and that is likely to be a missile. Only the US military have the power to do that. How many missiles do you have? How many do the Islamists have? You really think Islamists would get to fly a plane into the Pentagon without camera footage and a defensive strike?

We are talking about the top US military asset. You really think they have no cameras and no defenses? The most powerful, high tech, highly combat ready force the world has ever known... and you think they have no cameras and no defense against all attacks?

You think the US military NEVER thought of a plane attack? You really believe that the men and women who eat, sleep and breath military, NEVER thought of that and never established a defense?

You have more credibility believing in the Easter bunny!

The US military have "Osama's confession" on tape but not one image of the plane that hit the Pentagon?

You think the US military is not covering this up?

Just what is it that you think these people with a budget in the billions actually do all day long?

The real question is why did they do it. The answer seems to be control. How much of the American constitution has been weakened by this and that law following on from 911? You really think letting about 150 family members of Osama leave immediately after 911 and yet detaining American citizens of Arab appearance is how a credible investigation ought to be conducted?

The US military are the most intelligent and gifted and deadly warriors there are and you really believe they could be so easily attacked?

The fact is there is NOT once piece of footage showing a plane hitting the Pentagon? The reality is that they have shown us none because, like the WMD, such simply does NOT exist.

How many times were you told Saddam was lighting the fuse on his WMD and that it was him or us that will die? How many times? The media all carried these lies! Yet there were no such weapons.

Now do you really believe that the Government is so stupid not to have known? They know what time someone makes a cup of coffee and what brand! They can see license plates from space. They can put a man on the moon.

Yet they get the WMD wrong?

You think Gobbels was considered a liar by the German people? You think the German people thought Herr Hitler a fraud and an evil monster? You think they cared about the Jews? You think if Herr Hitler defeated Russia there would not be war crimes trials, but Comrade Stalin would be in the dock!

Our enemy is not Osama who is hidding somewhere in a cave. It the establishment that pulls the strings on George. That man is an idiot, seriously. A university professor would make a better President!

There is something wrong here.

A simple solution... the Pentagon can release all the camera footage, and do not say there is none or that it is lost or destroyed.

The US military is guilty until proven innocent. Only the US military had the opportunity to do this. What is the motive? How about a New World Order?

Where do we fall in this New World Order? If you are a Muslim you can kiss your arse goodbye. If you are a Christian you better snap to attention. If you are a Jew you better keep quiet or else.

The Pentagon was NOT hit by a plane on 911.

Show me one credible photograph or video footage of the plane and I will accept it.

I challenge the Pentagon to make ALL footage immediately available to the American people. I am an Australian and this does not affect me directly but if I were an American I sure as heck would be demanding to see the footage.

Our Prime Minister John Howard is a known liar. You think George Bush is holier than thou? We Australians really call it as we see it. Do you Americans just accept without question what you are told?

Something evil is happening in America and it isn't just some Islamists. They call America the great Satan and how ironic, they may just be right!

If you haven't seen the film, you MUST see it or none of this will make sense.

[Gabriel]

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/fct-videos.html

[Gabriel]

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html

[chrisjohn316]

Gabriel are you able to do anything more in the way of communication other than to post links?

Show me the photos or camera footage of the plane hitting. Shouldn't be that hard, it is the Pentagon after all.

Have you seen the two films? If not, please go and see them and THEN we can talk. We cannot discuss something when you do not have all the facts now can we?

:rolleyes:

[Gabriel]

This really isn't a topic I care to discuss too much. It's like arguing if the earth is flat or not. :o

Yes I saw the videos and have read the sites, that is why I gave you those links, that pretty much show the conspiracy theory you give is just that....a theory, and a crappy one at that.

[chrisjohn316]

This really isn't a topic I care to discuss too much. It's like arguing if the earth is flat or not. :o

Yes I saw the videos and have read the sites, that is why I gave you those links, that pretty much show the conspiracy theory you give is just that....a theory, and a crappy one at that.

Regarding the Earth being flat or not, I am saying it is round.

So you have seen 911 In Plane Site and Fahrenheit 911? I am asking very specifically if you have seen both.

The film 911 in Plane Site shows news footage and camera photographs and you dismiss what your eyes see?

You cannot simply say it is a conspiracy theory and have credibility. The facts of your own eyes say otherwise.

A plane did not hit the Pentagon. Not enough damage for one. We are expected to believe a similar plane brought down each of the WTC towers but did only a small amount of damage to the Pentagon.

Some people believe anything those in authority say. Others ask questions and make their own conclusions.

Show the evidence that a plane hit.

[nuttie]

This really isn't a topic I care to discuss too much. It's like arguing if the earth is flat or not. :cool: How do you mean? the earth IS flat, and it is Israel that flattened it. This passed in the UN by 139 to 2 with 11 abstain (a paraphrase on Abba Eban), so it must be true.

[chrisjohn316]

:cool: How do you mean? the earth IS flat, and it is Israel that flattened it. This passed in the UN by 139 to 2 with 11 abstain (a paraphrase on Abba Eban), so it must be true.

I will only believe if "Honest John" our Prime Minister says it's so, coz he is umm "honest" :D

I actually voted for the bastard Howard at the last election as I supported Australia standing along side America. We did our bit and now I will vote for a party that represents me.

Also we know the American Government never lie. Stop laughing! :D

[Roland]

:cool: How do you mean? the earth IS flat, and it is Israel that flattened it. This passed in the UN by 139 to 2 with 11 abstain (a paraphrase on Abba Eban), so it must be true.
Come on. We already know the earth is flat.
The question was if it is really round or more like a square.
Oval is okay, equals "round". Triangular is wrong - it's "third world" but only when you don't count oceans.
Please argue carfully if you think it's shaped like a pentagon.
We should find an agreement or compromise before the UN will have the last say on that.

[nuttie]

Correction.

This is the correct quote from Abba Eban on the UN:

“If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.”

[Binyamin]

Has anyone seen Plane Crazy (http://disneyshorts.toonzone.net/years/1928/planecrazy.html), Walt Disney's prophetic expose of 9/11?

[Justcurious]

I just saw this film and I strongly recommend that you do likewise as soon as possible.

* there was no plane strike on the Pentagon on 911...

According to this video, there indeed was not: http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

[chrisjohn316]

According to this video, there indeed was not: http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

That link opens a page that gives the message "We are moving this video to another server right..."

Think about this and watch the films.

1. Does the Pentagon explosion have the same magnitude as the WTC explosions? Look at the news footage.
2. Why do we see footage of the Pentagon explosion but never see the plane?
3. Why is the Pentagon hole round and the WTC holes plane shaped? What would make a round hole, a plane or a missle?
4. Where are all the personal effects of the passengers?
5. Where did all the fuel go?
6. Where is the impact crator?
7. If we transpose the WTC damage to the Pentagon, what could we expect to see and do we see that? If not, why not?
8. Is it credible that all of the Pentagon cameras failed to record a plane? How many cameras exactly were pointing in that direction? Why is the Pentagon footage being withheld from public scutiny?
9. Why was the Pentagon roof standing for about 30 minutes after the attack?
10. If a missile did strike the Pentagon, who had the means to do that? The US military or the Saudi Islamist Arabs?
11. Did the Islamists get the green light and assistance from the US? Remember that Saddam got the green light from the US to invade Kuwait. Did the US conspire with the Islamists so that they would have an excuse to take military control of the Middle East oil?
12. What brought down WTC #7?
13. Other than demolition charges, what had the required force to bring down WTC #7?
14. Is WTC #7 in the way of a redevelopment of the site?
15. How credible is it that Osama made a confession on video tape and that found it's way to the US military and yet they cannot find him?
16. Is the US seriously looking for Osama?
17. Which lies? Video footage and detailed high resolution photos or Politicians?

[Mediocrates]

Where is all the debris at Hiroshima? It's kind of the same thing you know. Well I know, I kind of do this for a living.

[chrisjohn316]

Where is all the debris at Hiroshima? It's kind of the same thing you know. Well I know, I kind of do this for a living.

What? Blow things up? ;)

Watch the two films and then lets have a chat.

[Mediocrates]

RCA (root cause analysis), systemic failure analysis, that sort of thing.

[chrisjohn316]

RCA (root cause analysis), systemic failure analysis, that sort of thing.

You are over qualified. All that is needed is vision and the power of reason.

[Gabriel]

Chris, maybe if you read any of my links, you'd realize there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon, but also plane debris at the Pentagon. Furthermore there are other videos not yet released with clear, unobsurced pictures of the crash that numerous eye witnesses have backed up.

[Mediocrates]

Well I don't know what to tell you then. Crashes are all fairly unique. Certainly the possibility that a fully fueled jet hitting a building/the ground at top speed immolating nearly the entire plane and all of its contents is high. It's also likely that pictures and movies have been digitally edited, photoshopped and cleaned up. I don't know. What I do know is that fundamentally it's almost impossible to get hundreds of people to cover up something like this.

[Mediocrates]

I have watched that link serveral times BTW.

[Mediocrates]

BTW is nearly impossible from the perspective of physics and engineering for a very large missle to fly under power horizontally near the ground. A cruise missile is much smaller than any airplane. Large missiles even a smaller SRBM which would have a range of a hundred miles or so would come in a parabolic arc from the stratosphere. The power requirements to 'fly' a large wingless ballistic missile are probably beyond the realm of engineering today.

[Neubill]

Chris, maybe if you read any of my links, you'd realize there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon, but also plane debris at the Pentagon. Furthermore there are other videos not yet released with clear, unobsurced pictures of the crash that numerous eye witnesses have backed up.

C'mon Gabe, your responses should be accusational and as bombastic as possible. If you haven't seen any of Michael Moore's films, you should just hand over your claim to the Bill of Rights and get a seeing eye dog. :rolleyes:

[chrisjohn316]

The way the damage is, the plane must have been flying almost touching the ground. Remember that the roof did not collaspe for some thirty minutes after the explosion. That means the angle of the plane was more horizontal than on a vertical decline.

Basically I do not trust politicians and I do not trust the Government. I am unconvinced a plane hit the Pentagon.

Gabriel show me one url that directly links to a video showing a plane hitting the Pentagon. Do not show me entire websites, just show me the url or at the very least where abouts on the page it is.

[chrisjohn316]

C'mon Gabe, your responses should be accusational and as bombastic as possible. If you haven't seen any of Michael Moore's films, you should just hand over your claim to the Bill of Rights and get a seeing eye dog. :rolleyes:

Mike Moore shows that free speech still exists. This is a good thing.

[Gabriel]

Mike Moore shows that free speech still exists. This is a good thing.

So does the Aryan Nation and the KKK, that doesn't make their messages any more valid then compulsive liars like Michael Moore.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/ (If you think Michael Moore can be trusted at all please visit)

[chrisjohn316]

there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon

Put up or shut up! Your talk is cheap. Show me these "pictures" and "videos" that show a "plane hitting the Pentagon". Unless you can now back this up, you lose ALL credibility as far as I am concerned. Show me!

[Gabriel]

I told you read my links, not going to waste my time reposting the same things over and over.

[chrisjohn316]

I told you read my links, not going to waste my time reposting the same things over and over.

Here are all the links you posted in my discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/fct-videos.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
http://disneyshorts.toonzone.net/years/1928/planecrazy.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

Did I miss any?

Now I did not carefully read any so I may have missed it?

You have stated that "there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon". I saw nothing like this at any of the links above.

I think you are a dishonest person. Do not pollute this discussion with your posts! Right now I think you are a liar. You claim a reality that is not correct.

I will give you one last chance. Post the url showing what you have claimed. If you cannot tell the truth in this matter how can anyone be expected to believe you in other matters? I will refrain from saying what we would call you here in Australia, but you get my drift! :cool:

[Gabriel]

Here are all the links you posted in my discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/fct-videos.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
http://disneyshorts.toonzone.net/years/1928/planecrazy.html
http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

Did I miss any?

Didn't miss any of my links, but you did manage to add one in my name, very cute.

Now I did not carefully read any so I may have missed it?

Which was super obvious. You wouldn't keep posting this nonsence if you actually did.

You have stated that "there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon". I saw nothing like this at any of the links above.

I wonder why? Could it be your above quote explained it all? Any hoo, in the snopes article they reference this CNN article, which has....you guessed it PHOTOS AND VIDEO

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/index.html

If you read ther persa article you'd see there are other videos and pics that captured the plane. Whole videos were not released but eyewitnesses and the video's orginal owners back up their claim that it captured the plane heading toward and/or hitting the Pentagon, depending on which source.

I think you are a dishonest person. Do not pollute this discussion with your posts! Right now I think you are a liar. You claim a reality that is not correct.

You're allowed whatever opinions you want, no matter how WRONG they are.

I will give you one last chance. Post the url showing what you have claimed. If you cannot tell the truth in this matter how can anyone be expected to believe you in other matters? I will refrain from saying what we would call you here in Australia, but you get my drift!

Read above remarks and links, how many times do I need to say this? :confused:

[chrisjohn316]

If you read ther persa article you'd see there are other videos and pics that captured the plane.

I see a picture of the Pentagon and a huge fireball. Where exactly in this picture is the plane?

Whole videos were not released

Why not? What have they got to hide?

You cannot say yes there is camera footage and photographs of the plane hitting the Pentagon and say, "we won't show you, but trust us."

Why are you so obtuse? Don't you get it? We need too see the camera footage and photos ourselves. You have about the same crediblity as the politicians that say "trust me". I reply, "hell no"!

You said:

there are not only pictures and videos showing a plane hitting the Pentagon

Yet you do not show any proof. A fireball is NOT a plane ok!

source:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=airplane

airplane
n : an aircraft that has a fixed wing and is powered by propellers or jets; "the flight was delayed due to trouble with the airplane" [syn: aeroplane, plane]

When you find one, a plane, show me and while you are at it find the WMD too. I am sure there are achives of footage and stacks of photos that you expect us to trust exist. You have zero credibility as far as I am concerned.

Reality 1 = no plane camera footage and no photos of plane hitting the pentagon equals NO plane.

Reality 2 = your claims that such exist, saying you can show such and offering something that does not show that equals bull####! We can smell you from Australia!

[chrisjohn316]

Your CNN links has a video and photo stills. All we see is an explosion. What did we see with the WTC? Did we or did we not see a plane? If the camera can see the WTC planes why can't it see the Pentagon plane?

Also which direction is the explosion? It is to the right and up. If the plane is hitting from right to left, the explosion should follow the direction of the plane shouldn't it? The explosion is going the wrong way!

No matter which way you look at it, there is no proof a plane hit the Pentagon. In fact the weight of evidence is overwelming that the Pentagon was not hit by a plane at all.

It is beyond belief that the video footage was not able to see the plane. Even a small part of the tail would be enough, but no, there is nothing.

You should make up your own mind. Look at the video and tell me do you see a plane or not. If you answer no, but still insist a plane was there you need help!

Here is what a plane hitting a building should look like:

http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/lockerbie/

There is plane wreckage, a huge crator and massive damage.

Now compare that with what we see at the Pentagon.

People we are being lied to by the US Governement!

[Gabriel]

Your CNN links has a video and photo stills. All we see is an explosion. What did we see with the WTC? Did we or did we not see a plane? If the camera can see the WTC planes why can't it see the Pentagon plane?

In the video they still frame it circling the front end of the plane. As also previously noted the one site has pics of the BBC interview that shows the plane in the background. There was also, which you keep ignorning, lots of eyewitnesses and other videos (not released) that back up all the above information. Furthermore you can't compare the CNN video to the videos of the WTC attack. The CNN video is based on Pentagon security video which has a very narrow point of view. Hense if set at the standard 30frames/second (which almost no security camera is, most are much slower) would be just pot luck if it captured the whole/bulk of the plane on one of it's stills. On the other hand the WTC attack people were filming the filming the skyline which has a MUCH bigger point of view and you can capture the plan the plane quite easily.

Also which direction is the explosion? It is to the right and up. If the plane is hitting from right to left, the explosion should follow the direction of the plane shouldn't it? The explosion is going the wrong way!

Amazing that only wacky conspiracy sites note this, and NONE of the news agencies top military advisors or video experts.

It is beyond belief that the video footage was not able to see the plane. Even a small part of the tail would be enough, but no, there is nothing.

Read my first comment, the front part is shown, and I explain why only a small part could be seen before the explosion.

You should make up your own mind. Look at the video and tell me do you see a plane or not. If you answer no, but still insist a plane was there you need help!

I allready said you can see the plane, and then many eyewitnesses back this claim up. Not to mention the actual plane wreckage found at the Pentagon crashsite. (On first page of the snoopes article)

Here is what a plane hitting a building should look like:

http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/lockerbie/

There is plane wreckage, a huge crator and massive damage.

Different plane, differnent building, different speed, different tragectary.

[chrisjohn316]

Lockerbie serves to show that no plane hit the Pentagon.

The US Government comes out with some outrageous lie, the media serve interests other than the truth and people are duped.

Take the election of Geroge Bush. The world knows that Al Gore won the election.

Take the WMD that do not exist. Another American Government lie and another example of the media falsely reporting.

The question isn't have the politicians and the media lied, but rather, if you will, who is the greater liar?

There is no video footage in the public domain that a plane hit the Pentagon and the damage is inconsistent with a plane hitting the Pentagon. If there were footage, like, if there was evidence of WMD, I think the American Governement would have made it public. Isn't that logical? That fact is no evidence exists to back their lies and yet people believe them.

I say, people can make up their own minds and that is reasonable. They do not need to be told what happened. Let them look at all the evidence and judge for themselves.

You must see these two films:

1. 911 In Plane Site
2. Farenheit 911

You can deny reality but your state of denial does not change the facts. The facts speak for themselves and I say let the people decide and let their interpretation rest where it will.

I believe something just isn't right. You believe the offical story. You have failed to change my opinion. Your "believe me because I say so" position flyes against the facts. Believe what you will, but I believe in my vision and the power of logic and reason to reach my conclusions.

According to your logic the alledged passenger plane that hit the Pentagon, if superimposed on Lockerbie, would see the plane all but vapourise. However the only physical damage would be a round hole in a building, and the roof would only collaspe some thirty minutes later. The lawn would be almost undamaged and don't even think of looking for a huge crator because there is none. Of the, let us pick a number, of the twenty security cameras, not one actually captures the plane. Nice fairy tale!

Now let us imagine what would happen with a real passenger plane hitting the Pentagon. There would be a great deal of camera footage, that is, if the entire Pentagon wasn't detroyed by the impact. There would be a huge crator and some of the levels below the Pentagon may be exposed. The lawn would be greatly damaged and pieces of plane wreckage would be everywhere. This is not a fairy tale, but what one can reasonably expect.

The question that I ask myself is why are you pushing the line that a plane hit the Pentagon when all the facts point to something else? What is your motivation for trying to decieve people? What you claim is not based on fact but on your conjecture.

I will ask you very specifically.

Question 1 - Have you seen the entire film "911 In Plane Site"?

Question 2 - Have you seen the entire film "Fahenheit 911"?

These are American productions that everyone should see. You cannot talk away and spin doctor live news reports, video footage, high resolution photos, deductive reasoning and logic.

Something is wrong with the Pentagon story and it wouldn't be the first time an American Government acted illegally, acted against the American constitution, and acted against the American people.

The American people have a right to have ALL of the information so that THEY can decide for themselves. The people do NOT need to be fed what to believe. They can make up their own minds.

You think the American Government is above committing such an act as is implied if the Pentagon story is established to have been false? Those in power will do anything to further their own self interest.

If a plane hit the Pentagon I would acknowledge such. However I have seen no such evidence and the closer I looked the more I came to realize that something is amiss.

A plane did not create the fireball and damage at the Pentagon. A Lockerbie class catastrophe is what a passenger plane would have done to the Pentagon.

What we have here Mr Watson is elementary. In the common vernacular, a "lie". The American Government have perpetrated a lie and many have been duped. The President of the United States of American and the US Media call black white, night day, hot cold, evil good, but there will always be those who will resist this type of persuasion and seek the truth.

This is like that Star Wars Jedi thing! *waves hand* "A plane hit the pentagon. Saudi Arab terrorists. Vote war, war, war!" That is what it is like and you seem to be mesmerized.

Unfortunately for George Bush, he is no Jedi but he is a known liar as the WMD clearly demonstates.

You can indulge in believing what you will but the world will judge America very harshly, and that I can promise you!

It is important to tell the truth. It is a pity there are not more people like Michael Moore and the producers of "911 In Plane Site".

When the X Files stated "The Truth Is Out There", it obviously meant outside the USA, because you seem to be swimming in lies over there!

[Mediocrates]

Lockerbie was 747 at max altitude which experienced a small explosion which punctured the plane and probably tore out control systems. The resulting rapid depressurization resulted in a mid air distintegration. The debris field from Lockerbie was over 400 sq miles because as the plane distintegrated it fell to the earth at different speeds at different times. It didn't actually 'explode' as in the entire structure of the craft lit and blew up at once. What happened is that the force of the explosion caused the plane to tear itself apart at several hundred knots.

A plane or any flying object flying at full speed under a full fuel load at extremely low altitude and which hit a solid object like a building or a mountain dead on or almost dead on would not experience anything like the same kind of structural distintegration of the Lockerbie crash.

[Neubill]

What's more shocking, that the government would lie, or that the government lied?

At the moment, people are saying that Bush lied
1) about the events of September 11th being a terrorist attack
2) about Osama bin-Laden's responsibility for 9/11
3) about the Taliban and their relationship to Osama bin-Laden
4) about Saddam Hussein and his stockpiles of WMD's

Even if every one of these allegations are true, it will not keep Bush from being re-elected in November.

It's a shame when any person dies innocently. If Bush is responsible for innocent deaths, then he will experience the law of the harvest: you reap what you sow.

[chrisjohn316]

A plane or any flying object flying at full speed under a full fuel load at extremely low altitude and which hit a solid object like a building or a mountain dead on or almost dead on would not experience anything like the same kind of structural distintegration of the Lockerbie crash.

Or the short form, "there would be credible plane wreckage". Something that does not exist at the Pentagon.

There is no wing or tail damage done to the Pentagon so when they say "plane" they must mean "missile".

[chrisjohn316]

If Bush is responsible for innocent deaths, then he will experience the law of the harvest: you reap what you sow.

Amen brother!

[Binyamin]

I told you read my links, not going to waste my time reposting the same things over and over.
So why are you?

[eyl]

Or the short form, "there would be credible plane wreckage". Something that does not exist at the Pentagon.

There is no wing or tail damage done to the Pentagon so when they say "plane" they must mean "missile".


"Wing or tail damage"? Do you expect the impact to have left a plane-shaped sillhuette (sp) in the building? That only happens in cartoons. The wing and tail assemblies are rather flimsy, and would have bent into the planes body on impact.

[chrisjohn316]

"Wing or tail damage"? Do you expect the impact to have left a plane-shaped sillhuette (sp) in the building? That only happens in cartoons. The wing and tail assemblies are rather flimsy, and would have bent into the planes body on impact.

Like at the WTC towers right?

For goodness sakes, watch both these films first before making a comment.

Watch these films:
1. 911 In Plane Site
2. Fahrenheit 911

:rolleyes:

[chrisjohn316]

The following is NOT meant as a substitue for watching the film, "911 In Plane Site".

You NEED to watch the entire film to understand what is being said. I cannot stress enough how important and relevant it is to have watched BOTH films. Only then will you have all the information necessary to give a considered opinion. It is wasting everyones time to comment when you have NOT seen BOTH films.

http://www.911inplanesite.com/

[eyl]

At the WTC towers, that wasn't the case either, besides the fact that the towers were a lot flimsier than the Pentagon.

Like at the WTC towers right?

For goodness sakes, watch both these films first before making a comment.

Watch these films:
1. 911 In Plane Site
2. Fahrenheit 911

:rolleyes:

[chrisjohn316]

At the WTC towers, that wasn't the case either, besides the fact that the towers were a lot flimsier than the Pentagon.

It is the case. The wings of the planes that hit the WTC towers did NOT fold back but cut straight though and hence the plane shaped gaping holes. Go look at the video footage again!

As for the towers being "flimsier" as you put it, the wings still had to make contact with the Pentagon right or are you suggesting that they folded back by themselves? Now if they made contact, there would be evidence of such right? Here is a BIG hint for you, it would be obvious plane wings hit. However when you look at the Pentagon you don't see that.

Now be a good person, go away and watch BOTH films and then come back and hopefully you will make more sense.

[Mediocrates]

If we all just say we agree with you, regardless, are we done?

[chrisjohn316]

If we all just say we agree with you, regardless, are we done?

If the topic doesn't interest you, then don't post.

[Mediocrates]

What you want to tell is that I can simply agree with whatever you say or I can go away. Ok, done.

[chrisjohn316]

What you want to tell is that I can simply agree with whatever you say or I can go away. Ok, done.

Stop playing the victim. I never said what you are asserting and I reiterate, stop playing the victim. Also stay on topic please. Watch the two films and then give your opinion.

[Gabriel]

Quit with this BS to go see Fahrenheit 911, I allready provided linkage on why Michael Moore is LIAR and deliberatly DECPTIVE to get his richer. I will not go to see a film full of proven lies.

[chrisjohn316]

Quit with this BS to go see Fahrenheit 911, I allready provided linkage on why Michael Moore is LIAR and deliberatly DECPTIVE to get his richer. I will not go to see a film full of proven lies.

The topic relates to the film 911 In Plane Site and Fahrenheit 911 provides additional relevant information.

Have you seen the film 911 In Plane Site? The film 911 In Plane Site refers to people like you, in the introduction.

[chrisjohn316]

The FRENCH uncovered the AMERICAN Government lie. Investigate the evidence and make up your own mind. NEVER believe the Government, but always see if they are telling the truth or lying. The Government is NOT to be trusted - EVER!

A Government's last constituents are the people.

Truth is important - NO plane hit the Pentagon on 911 and those in power that say such are lying to the people. They are lying about the Pentagon and logic holds that they probably lying about other matters too. It is an evil and unGodly world we live in.

"Analysis of the Pentagon attack and the motives behind it."
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/

"The projectors are stand-alone versions of the movie for the PC and Macintosh that don't require Flash player to be installed on the user's computer and are suitable for distribution on CD."
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.htm

"Pentagon
Hunt the Boeing! And test your perceptions!

As everyone knows, on 11 September, less than an hour after the attack on the World Trade Centre, an airplane collided with the Pentagon. The Associated Press first reported that a booby-trapped truck had caused the explosion. The Pentagon quickly denied this. The official US government version of events still holds. Here's a little game for you: Take a look at these photographs and try to find evidence to corroborate the official version. It's up to you to Hunt the Boeing!"
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

[b.scheller]

I'm sorry, but this is utter stupidity. The thought of some unindentified object hitting the Pentegon. There would have been no possible way for a rocket to be fired anywhere in the United States especially Washington of that size and to hit the an object that big. You are underestimating the actual power of the U.S Armed Forces. I assure you that the possibility of a rocket being fired in the United States or even the Atlantic and targetting a Military Building would have been impossible.

The truth is, that most people go through shock after experiencing something so life altering. They can't believe a simple fact like that is the actual truth. That is why, everyone always looks for some complex reason, they need to know why. Their's always those who will easily feed their imaginations to those who want it.

BTW I'm sorry if I had repeated some of the explanations that have been used. Reading 75 post just to see if anyone has the same idea could be treacherous...Sorry never the less

[chrisjohn316]

Look at the photos of the Pentagon and the footage.

NO plane hit the pentagon on 911.

[b.scheller]

The amount of heat generated melted most of the remains of the plane, anyway, what are those scraps of metal doing on the front lawn of the Pentagon?

Anyway, as I said before it would have been impossible to launch a missile into a Federal Bulding from continental U.S or the Atlantic Sea. Let's even say that a tomahawk struck the Pentagon, the missile would have not penetrated the five rings, and would have not caused such a huge devestation as the plane did.

Please stop posting this utter garbage.

[Leon]

just saw this film and I strongly recommend that you do likewise as soon as possible.

* there was no plane strike on the Pentagon on 911.
* the 2nd plane to hit the WTC was described as being a cargo plane and that it had no windows. The plane seemed to ignite something near the nose at the point of impact. It had something, a pod, attached beneath it.


just saw this film and strongly recommend it. It proves the following:

1. universe was created by UFO'S
2. These UFO's take orders from Elvis

The evidence is staggering. Its believable! A real must see.

[b.scheller]

just saw this film and strongly recommend it. It proves the following:

1. universe was created by UFO'S
2. These UFO's take orders from Elvis

The evidence is staggering. Its believable! A real must see.


HAHAHAHAHAHA....that was grand

[KettleWhistle]

I saw a video that showed devil's face appear in the smoke from WTC explosure.

http://www.9news.com/newsroom/13294.html

[b.scheller]

i'm sure chris john will now believe that the devil had something to do with the twin towers...

[chrisjohn316]

The amount of heat generated melted most of the remains of the plane

And the lawn was untouched, and there was no impact crator, and the wings never hit the building like the WTC, and with all the security camera there was not one frame of a plane.

what are those scraps of metal doing on the front lawn of the Pentagon?

Ever heard of planted evidence?

Anyway, as I said before it would have been impossible to launch a missile into a Federal Bulding from continental U.S or the Atlantic Sea. Let's even say that a tomahawk struck the Pentagon, the missile would have not penetrated the five rings, and would have not caused such a huge devestation as the plane did.

I am saying a plane did not hit the Pentagon on 911. I am not saying what did. Maybe a missile did and your implied use of the word "impossible" is simply nonsense.

Please stop posting this utter garbage.

It is not garbage. There is no credible evidence a plane hit the Pentagon on 911. Look at the photos and films and list to reason as opposed to the BIG 911 LIE.

[chrisjohn316]

just saw this film and strongly recommend it. It proves the following:

1. universe was created by UFO'S
2. These UFO's take orders from Elvis

The evidence is staggering. Its believable! A real must see.

Leon you are a ****wit.

[chrisjohn316]

i'm sure chris john will now believe that the devil had something to do with the twin towers...

You are a smart ****.

That you are so indoctrinated to believe what you are told regardless of the facts doesn't give you much hope.

Have you seen the film "911 In Plane Site" and "Fahrenheit 911"? If you haven't then you are an idiot to boot... shooting off your big mouth without studying all the facts.

[Leon]

You are a smart ****.

That you are so indoctrinated to believe what you are told regardless of the facts doesn't give you much hope.

Have you seen the film "911 In Plane Site" and "Fahrenheit 911"? If you haven't then you are an idiot to boot... shooting off your big mouth without studying all the facts.

Have you seen FARENHYPE911 to find out the truth about Moor's crockumentury http://www.fahrenhype911.com/ ?
Or visited the following website http://www.moorelies.com/ ?

And you accussed Howard of lying...

Speaking of idiot's to boot.

[chrisjohn316]

And you accussed Howard of lying...

Speaking of idiot's to boot.

Are you saying John Howard is NOT a liar? I have posted several urls detailing his lies...

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=119177&postcount=45

There is an idiot alright and he looks at you in the mirror every morning!

:D

[Leon]

Are you saying John Howard is NOT a liar? I have posted several urls detailing his lies...

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=119177&postcount=45

There is an idiot alright and he looks at you in the mirror every morning!

:D

Didnt read the URL'S - bit of a waste of time, they are about as credible as the conspiracy stuff you post up on 9/11.

Have you seen my url's on Elvis and his army of UFO'S?

[Roland]

And the lawn was untouched,
Ever heard of planted evidence?

That lawn wasn't even planted.
It comes in quick-rollout boxes.
Bulletproof carbon mesh.
No need for watering.
No gardening work.
Highly cost-effective.
No moles.
Step-on seurity features with alert/stun/kill settings.
Always the green spray-on colour-of-the-season right from leading international lawn stylists.
Did you ever see workers actually mawing there?
Avaliable at every SuperGrass-Shop. Ask your local dealer.

[Mediocrates]

There is a video making the rounds on the internet of a McD F-4 Phantom II being test crashed into a wall from a rocket sled at about 500 mph. Basically it vaporizes w/o creating any debris. Now an airliner is quite a bit larger but the same kinetics and thermodynamics are in play.

[chrisjohn316]

There is a video making the rounds on the internet of a McD F-4 Phantom II being test crashed into a wall from a rocket sled at about 500 mph. Basically it vaporizes w/o creating any debris. Now an airliner is quite a bit larger but the same kinetics and thermodynamics are in play.

Do you see any wing damage on the Pentagon building? Or did the wings cease to exist prior to impact?! There is no wing damage.

The actual hole and video footage looks like an explosion from the inside out.

Wings of a jet do not just cease to exist. The wings on the jets at the WTC left their mark. The Pentagon has no such mark.

Also the size of the hole in the Pentagon is too small and at the wrong angle. The roof did not collapse for some thirty minutes after the explosion.

Now factor in the height of the jet and the angle it would have to be at NOT to damage the roof. If the jet was level on the ground and travelled at like 300kms an hour or how ever fast it was going, then one would expect the roof to collapse.

The Pentagon on 911 saw an explosion of some device and no plane.

The problem becomes this... if the Pentagon 911 Government account is proven to be false, which it will be, then what does say for the rest of 911?

Already anti Jewish rumors abound of a Jewish conspiracy and possible involment with claims that Jews did not attent the WTC on 911.

I have heard this and have rebutted such time and again because there is no evidence. Hatred of Jews does not constituent evidence and I counsil those against making such statements.

Perhaps the Jews are equally blind, not willing to acknowledge the truth least it harm them.

The truth should always be spoken. It is a dishonerable person that is untruthful in deed or omission.

The truth about the Pentagon is out. It is only a matter of time before people realize this and start to speak out.

The vested interest of all people should be the truth.

There is a whole list of reasons why no plane hit the Pentagon.

The best judge is your eyes. Look at the photos. View the footage. Listen to both sides.

THINK PEOPLE!

[chrisjohn316]

WARNING - THE TRUTH IS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE TO SOME

Update research materials:

Now THIS is what a jumbo jet would look like next to the Pentagon.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/purdue1_sim.jpg
+ do you really believe such a jumbo jet hit the Pentagon on 911?

This is a photo before sand was put on the grass.
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/before-1.jpg
+ see signs of a jumbo jet having hit?

Look for a moment at the following photo of the Pentagon after the roof collapsed some thirty minutes after the "jumbo jet" hit on 911.
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/pent-after.jpg
+ see the damage of the jet wings where they hit the Pentagon?
+ how about a crator of some sorts?
+ what about some plane wreckage?

Why is the media silent? Answer, the media is owned.
http://www.corporations.org/media/
http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml

NO PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911
http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/Pentagon/what-hit-it.htm
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon_old.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/valentine.htm
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~flight77/flight77/claim.html

[b.scheller]

ugh...another firm moore believer...sheesh...btw from what ive read, the wings collapsed into the fusalage...

[chrisjohn316]

the wings collapsed into the fusalage...

Like they did at the WTC right?

What caused the wings to collapse into the fusalage? Certainly NOT hitting the Pentagon!

Look at the photos!

:rolleyes:

[KettleWhistle]

In all likelyhood, the plane was upturned on impact, and the heat from the explosion can easily melt the aluminum wings.

[Mediocrates]

When you eliminate the impossible, what's left, however improbable is the result.

If it's not a plane then it didn't happen because nothing else flies like that.

Ballistic missiles don't fly sideways.
Cruise missiles are not that large; even a 1 tom Tomahawk could not do that.
It wasn't an airdropped bomb.
It wasn't a small nuclear artillery shell

No plane parts were recovered from the WTC even though thousands of people saw two planes hit them so we know it was a plane there.

[b.scheller]

also, with that...please refrain from using stupid arguments like...they found bodies strapped into airplane chairs in nearby apartments during the strike on the world trade centre...

[Neubill]

Well, since it's so obvious that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon builiding on 9/11, it won't be long before the major news broadcasters in the US will be on this story like white on rice.

...um, wait. It's been at least three years since it happened, and almost a year since Jellyroll Moore's movie came out, so the US media should have already brought this to the attention of the public. Gee, I wonder why we haven't heard more? :rolleyes:

Eventually, we'll hear what the Moorists believe was gained from a purposely staged crash on the Pentagon building.

[Binyamin]

"Republicans finally have their answer to Michael Moore: Celsius 41.11"
- New York Times
www.celsius4111.com.

[Mediocrates]

Seems kind of silly to still play the victim. Winning the WH, the SC, both houses of Congress, a majority of governorships and most state houses wasn't enough? Still have to point to someone who's politically only marginally more relevant than Bill Clinton? Who will you blame in 2008?, Da Dems? The electorate? That vague urban effete elite?

[Canajew]

Seems kind of silly to still play the victim. Winning the WH, the SC, both houses of Congress, a majority of governorships and most state houses wasn't enough? Still have to point to someone who's politically only marginally more relevant than Bill Clinton? Who will you blame in 2008?, Da Dems? The electorate? That vague urban effete elite?
I know this thread is old, but whoever keeps referencing Farenheit 9-11, you seem to be committing the very error you say others do - you blindly assume arguments from authority as gospel. If it came between trusting the honesty of the US government or the honesty of Michael Moore, I think it would be a fair toss up.

Moore is just Rush Libmaugh with hearing and a liberal bent. Telling people to watch his movie will not convince anyone of anything.

But I am mostly curious about the size of the puncture. It looks significantly smaller than the fusselage of a 757. What would explain (1) its small footprint and (2) its high degree of penetration?

[Mediocrates]

I don't know. What I do know is what I've seen in a military film clip making the rounds on the net recently. It shows a McD F-4 Phantom II strapped to rocket sled and driven into a solid immovable wall at 600 mph. It ceased to exist; there was zero debris. It basically vaporized from the effects of the conversion of the kinetic energy to heat, coupled with the fuel combustion. One sees a similar effect when a large plane hits the ground at a very high angle of attack at high speed. It doesn't leave a crater with recognizable parts scattered all over the place. It leaves nothing.

[Canajew]

I don't know. What I do know is what I've seen in a military film clip making the rounds on the net recently. It shows a McD F-4 Phantom II strapped to rocket sled and driven into a solid immovable wall at 600 mph. It ceased to exist; there was zero debris. It basically vaporized from the effects of the conversion of the kinetic energy to heat, coupled with the fuel combustion. One sees a similar effect when a large plane hits the ground at a very high angle of attack at high speed. It doesn't leave a crater with recognizable parts scattered all over the place. It leaves nothing.
and that is what I would think too, but given that, what explains the penetration through the third ring? Seems that would either require a focussed blast or a very large, strong object.

[Hisardut]

i love it when "homo supporting" greens or "self destructive allow all immigrant" labor dudes call howard a liar.
john is a great prime minister, countless times people attacked his government, but so far he has done everything correct (with the execption of timor IMO) our economy is growing, our protection is better, and although howard may not be the greatest prime minister (which is debatable as he has been voted 3 times) he is still better than any losers the opposition has brought in.

[Neubill]

i love it when "homo supporting" greens or "self destructive allow all immigrant" labor dudes call howard a liar.
john is a great prime minister, countless times people attacked his government, but so far he has done everything correct (with the execption of timor IMO) our economy is growing, our protection is better, and although howard may not be the greatest prime minister (which is debatable as he has been voted 3 times) he is still better than any losers the opposition has brought in.

To me, he'll be considered a great PM when he gets the Oceania Confederation a direct qualification spot in the FIFA World Cup. ;)

Currently, Oceania's champion (likely to be Australia this time around) will have to play a two match series against South America's fifth place team. Australia has had to go this route almost every time and they fail in the end.

[eyl]

9/11: Debunking The Myths (http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y) at Popular Mechanics