If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values..

[Olivier]

This is the Congratulatory letter to President George W. Bush from Bob Jones, from the Bob Jones university. This university was granted a visit and a speech by W Bush during his campaign. Evangelists are Bush key supporters, their votes brought many swing states...



Dear Mr. President:

The media tells us that you have received the largest number of popular votes of any president in America's history. Congratulations!

In your re-election, God has graciously granted America—though she doesn't deserve it—a reprieve from the agenda of paganism. You have been given a mandate. We the people expect your voice to be like the clear and certain sound of a trumpet. Because you seek the Lord daily, we who know the Lord will follow that kind of voice eagerly.

Don't equivocate. Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ. Honor the Lord, and He will honor you.

Had your opponent won, I would have still given thanks, because the Bible says I must (I Thessalonians 5:18). It would have been hard, but because the Lord lifts up whom He will and pulls down whom He will, I would have done it. It is easy to rejoice today, because Christ has allowed you to be His servant in this nation for another presidential term. Undoubtedly, you will have opportunity to appoint many conservative judges and exercise forceful leadership with the Congress in passing legislation that is defined by biblical norm regarding the family, sexuality, sanctity of life, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and limited government. You have four years—a brief time only—to leave an imprint for righteousness upon this nation that brings with it the blessings of Almighty God.

Christ said, “If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my father honour” (John 12:26).

The student body, faculty, and staff at Bob Jones University commit ourselves to pray for you—that you would do right and honor the Savior. Pull out all the stops and make a difference. If you have weaklings around you who do not share your biblical values, shed yourself of them. Conservative Americans would love to see one president who doesn't care whether he is liked, but cares infinitely that he does right.

Best wishes.

Sincerely your friend,

Bob Jones III
President

BJIII:l http://www.bju.edu/letter


good luck, philingraham :( and come visit free Europe anytime you want. You're welcome to stay a bit longer if you will.

[Illuminatus]

Congratulations to Bush on his re-election came from all over
the world and from all walks of life. However, some were ignored
like the ones from Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez
Zapatero or North Korea's Kim Jong-il while others are given a
a polite note of "thanks" - like this Bob Jones III.

While the "evangelical right" voted for Bush in larger numbers
this time around, so did Hispanics, Blacks, "security-moms", Jews
and even gays. In fact, just about every conceivable demographic
voted for Bush in record numbers.

So, if you're going to blame the "evangelical-right", you might
as well fault the NRA (National Rifle Assosciation) who on behalf
of its 4 million active members, equaled any increase the
"evangelical-right" may have added to the fray. They endorsed
a presidential candidate for the first time in twenty years.

But then, there could be something to Bob Jones congratulations.

Note how these "weaklings" are shedding themselves of a
region that no longer shares........ "biblical values". (http://www.christianpost.com/dbase/missions/1223/section/1.htm)

[Olivier]

you might as well fault the NRA (National Rifle Assosciation) who on behalf of its 4 million active members, equaled any increase the "evangelical-right" may have added to the fray. They endorsed a presidential candidate for the first time in twenty years.Yeah it's clear that Bush is also the candidate of the NRA

so I might add, europe does not only stand for freedom and western values, but we have also banned guns from our streets a very long time ago.


Now, liberal and open-minded americans, who don't share Bush's evangelical/NRA agenda will always be welcome in free Europe.
There are very few people like this on this forum (no wonder why), but that's my message to them.

[Illuminatus]

I see you've also conveniently excluded:

[.. Hispanics, Blacks, "security-moms", Jews and even gays.
(and) just about every conceivable demographic voted for Bush
in record numbers ..]

• Number of people who voted for Bush: 60,000,000 +

• Number of people who live in Britain: 59,600,000

That list of yours is getting a bit larger. So soon before the
tourist season kicks in this spring?

btw, like most places, guns may have been banned "from our streets a
very long time ago" but just like the US - Hunters and sportmen(women)
collectors and gun clubs are big business -- yes, even in Germany.

[Olivier]

I see you've also conveniently excluded:

[.. Hispanics, Blacks, "security-moms", Jews and even gays.
(and) just about every conceivable demographic voted for Bush
in record numbers ..]yep I see your claim that gays elected Bush as quite laughable, as their influence Bush's on policy. Same thing with the other categories you quote they don't have quite as much influence as groups headed by Bob Jones or the NRA

Now even if you don't there are probably liberals who understand what I mean and do not identify with what America's policy has become under Bush I... there are few sign Bush II will be better (except maybe on foreign policy).

But inside the USA some people feel they are entering a long dark tunnel, .... with the agenda you can read on my first post.

[Illuminatus]

Especially when I didn't say that the gays "elected" Bush into
office. But that he increased his numbers in almost every demographic
( http://uk.gay.com/headlines/7075 ) and as I said, "in record numbers".

A "claim" eh ?

Sounds like a personal opinion. Probably no more than the "claim" that
this Bob Jones has all that "much influence" over the Bush admin.

But let's be fair, it was a nice attempt at trying to add your own words
to my post though. Better luck next time?

As for that "long dark tunnel"....I'd say that most will the "see the light"
with a 3.5 annual GDP and these numbers reported a day after the elections (http://washingtontimes.com/business/20041105-102422-5331r.htm).

Meanwhile, the French economy expanded just 0.1 percent for July through
September, according to Insee - well below many economists' forecasts. Let
us know when you see the light at the end of your "long dark tunnel" Olivier.

[Olivier]

Meanwhile, the French economy expanded just 0.1 percent for July through
September, according to Insee - well below many economists' forecasts. Let
us know when you see the light at the end of your "long dark tunnel" Olivier.Growth rate of the USA is fine ... better than public or household debt for sure. But that's just not what Bob Jones' letter is about (neither is ivory coast btw).

But why do you keep on trying to change the subject ? You don't feel at ease with Bob Jones' agenda ? Didn't like last Mel gibson's movie?

[Illuminatus]

I'm no more changing the subject than you are - making a big deal
out of some congratulatory letter from the head a tiny university
in the little town of Greenville, South Carolina.

Even Mugabe of Zimbabwe sent his congratulations - are we to
interpret this as some sort of sign of undo "influence" over
the Bush admin? (well, maybe if you need some sort of soothing
explanation of why Kerry and Osama lost the election)

And no, I didn't like the Mel Gibson movie -- but I did enjoy Michael
Moore's F9/11 movie. He certainly delivered alot more votes and
galvinized more people for Dubya than your Bob Jones.

By The Way,
what's "better than public or household debt" isn't the growth, it's the
record $45.9 Trillion in net worth (http://www.haver.com/COMMENT/040917B.htm) that even a Clinton admin never matched.
(.....naturally I blame those awful Bush tax cuts for this)

[Illuminatus]

I keep forgetting that this is a forum for and about Israel.

As a "friend of Israel" (out here in the corn and wheat fields of the
Midwest - you'll find solid support for Israel), I am heartened by the
latest issue of "The Economist" magazine which predicts a 3.3% growth
rate for Israel in 2004 and 3.6% growth in 2005.

http://www.economist.com/countries/Israel/

They are below Israel's Ministry of Finance's projections of 4.1% growth
for 2004 and 3.8% for 2005, published last month.

In "The Economist" table of emerging economies, Israel is ranked 24th out
of 25 emerging economies, ahead of South Africa.

2005 should be another great year for the Israeli economy.

[Olivier]

I'm no more changing the subject than you are If you want to talk about economic or ivory coast, you can post to the dedicated threads. Or create one if you will





- making a big deal out of some congratulatory letter from the head a tiny university in the little town of Greenville, South Carolina.a big deal?


Bush feeling heat from evangelicals

By James Rosen -- Bee Washington Bureau
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, November 14, 2004


WASHINGTON - Evangelicals who flexed their muscles on Election Day are feeling empowered, and President Bush already is feeling their political heat.
Within hours of Sen. John Kerry's concession speech, some prominent evangelical leaders were taking credit for Bush's re-election - and putting him on notice they will be watching him closely in his second term.

"Now that values voters have delivered for George Bush, he must deliver for their values," said D. James Kennedy, an influential Fort Lauderdale, Fla., broadcast evangelist whose Sunday services are watched and heard by millions of Christians around the country. "The defense of innocent unborn human life, the protection of marriage, and the nomination and confirmation of federal judges who will interpret the Constitution, not make law from the bench, must be first priorities come January."

Bush cited none of those priorities in outlining his second-term focus two days after the election. Instead, he talked about overhauling the tax code, reforming Social Security, boosting the economy, improving schools, limiting medical liability, fighting terrorism, fighting AIDS and tackling international poverty.

Asked about Christian voters in the election, Bush promised to be president for all Americans, pointedly including those who "choose not to worship."

"I will be your president regardless of your faith," he said. "No president should ever try to impose religion on our society."

Bush's ecumenical caution didn't sit well with some evangelicals. "The president could have paused to thank all those good people who poured in and gave him power again," James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, told U.S. News & World Report. "The GOP has been given four years to deliver on marriage and life and family, and if they fumble it ... (we'll) stay home next time."

The Rev. Jerry Falwell announced plans to form the Faith and Values Coalition. Modeled on the Moral Majority, the now-defunct group he founded in 1979, it will lobby the Bush administration to take firmer stances against abortion, gay marriage, limits on prayer in schools and other hot-button issues.

Karl Rove, Bush's chief political strategist, devised the winning campaign strategy to identify conservative Christians who didn't vote in 2000 and persuade them to cast ballots this year. Within days of his boss's triumph, Rove appeared reluctant to give them too much credit.

"This was a broad, grass-roots-oriented victory in which the president made a compelling case to the American people, and they responded well," Rove said. "We're in the debt of the American people. Victory has many fathers, and the normal procedure after an election is that everybody claims responsibility for the victory. That's fine - that's the way it works."

The first skirmish has already erupted. Focus on the Family, the Colorado Springs broadcast behemoth whose programs reach 7 million listeners via 2,000 radio stations across the country, has joined several other evangelical groups to mount a campaign against Sen. Arlen Specter becoming chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee after the new Congress convenes in January.

Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican, angered many Christian fundamentalists when he said, after the election, that the Senate would be unlikely to confirm judicial nominees willing to overturn Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion. Thousands of evangelicals have flooded Senate offices with calls, urged on by Web sites and e-mails calling Specter a closet liberal and noting endorsements of him by publications such as the Washington Blade, a newspaper mainly for gays and lesbians.

The White House has steered clear of the controversy, with press secretary Scott McClellan saying it is up to the Senate Republican leadership to appoint committee heads.

"A lot of the evangelical leaders feel very good about the election, and they are pushing Bush very hard to address their agenda," said John Green, a political science professor at the University of Akron in Ohio and an expert on the role of religion in American culture.

[Illuminatus]

What, with thousands and thousands of lobbies in Washington? Besides,
the "evangelical-right" probably has lobbied the most, for the
longest in our 225 + history. So what else is new?

Fitting that California Governor Ahrrnold refers to the Sacramento Bee
as a "girlie-man" newspaper.

Surely you can provide actual ample evidence that your "evangelical
-right" is now setting Bush Administration policy? Remember, "mere belief
in what you exagerate does not constitute reality" (Goethe).

I think David Broder, who also writes for the NY Times -- says it best
to all "girl-men" Liberals on how to "get a grip" on reality in today's
Seattle Times (a more centrist newspaper).

[..The exaggerated reaction to the election among many liberals
was set off by the belief that Bush owes his victory to a bunch of
religious zealots bent on imposing their views on the whole society.

That impression was based on exit polls showing that Bush won
overwhelmingly among the 22 percent of voters who said moral values
were the most important issue to them. ..]

Dark age? Get a grip, people (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002089456_broder14.html)

Looks like Osama, the "girlie-men", and the Democrats still don't
have a clue on why they lost. Until they do understand, it sounds
like they still won't have a clue for at least another generation.

Still, Mr. Broder reassures those who fear the "long dark tunnel" with:

[.. Once they recover from their disappointment, Democrats will realize
that winning 48 percent of the popular vote in a high-turnout election,
as Kerry did, provides a sturdy base from which to climb back into power.

Bush won, but he will have to work within the system for whatever he
gets. Checks and balances are still there. The nation does not face
"another dark age," unless you consider politics with all its tradeoffs
and bargaining a black art. ..]

Relax, take a deep breath and "get a grip" : )

[KettleWhistle]

This is the Congratulatory letter to President George W. Bush from Bob Jones, from the Bob Jones university. This university was granted a visit and a speech by W Bush during his campaign. Evangelists are Bush key supporters, their votes brought many swing states...Umm... but you forgot my favorite evangelical, Pastor David J. Meyer.

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/2004/October2004.html:


The Spirit behind the Election!

The Presidential election in the United States is held every four years. We must remember that every election is an illuminati project, and as such there is a driving spirit behind it. Presidential elections are always held in the same year as the Olympics, where all the ancient gods and goddesses are summoned to manifest their power. These are all evil spirits that are unleashed through the athletes and mascots. Witches know that the word mascot or team spirit comes from the word “mascoto”, which is another word meaning “witchcraft.” It is from the Provencal French “masco” , meaning “sorceress” or “masked one.” Thus, sporting teams have mascots, which are evil spirits in animal form. In addition to the Presidential election year always coinciding with the Olympics, it is also always during a leap year. We are told that the purpose of a leap year and the added day in February is to reconcile the calendar as a time correction. In the realm of witchcraft, every 5th year is a spirit year brought forth by a “quantum leap.” That is why there are five Olympic rings and five points on the pentacle star representing earth, wind, water, fire, and spirit. The witches believe that the spirits of the leap year bring forth a new era or age, and these are the forces at work during the political conventions.

During this quantum leap year, the Republican National Convention was held at Madison Square Garden in New York City. It was a time of havoc, as over 200,000 protesters swarmed the area of the convention lashing out at President Bush and his policy of foreign wars. (12) It was an amazing sight as a line of people three miles long stretched from Wall Street to Madison Square Garden. This was a line of the unemployed, and they held up pink fliers that said, “The next pink slip might be yours.” (13) Then there came a parade with throngs of people carrying 1,000 flag-draped coffins representing our sons and daughters killed in Bush’s war with Iraq. (14) Before it was over, there were more than 1700 arrests and chaos was everywhere. (15) Quite obviously, there are many people who are enraged at President Bush. Here let it be noted that Nancy Reagan and her son Ron were desperately wanted at the convention, but they flatly refused to attend. (16)

Many strange things happened during, between, and shortly after the conventions of both political parties. Former President Clinton gave a 25-minute sermon at Riverside Church in New York City and then developed chest pains and had to undergo heart by-pass surgery. (17) I have been in Riverside Church several times, and it is a liberal Baptist church that holds witchcraft meetings called “Rites of passage.” I have photographic evidence of this. Clinton spoke from the same pulpit as Fidel Castro, who spoke at this same church a couple of years ago.

Another terrible event took place in Beslan, Russia, as a school was seized by terrorists involving many young children who suffered unspeakable horror. (18) On Saturday, September 4th, 2004, ABC news reported that the initial death toll was 322. This immediately arrested my attention because the number 322 is the sacred number of the secret society called the Skull and Bones, and this number appears on their emblem directly under the cross bones. There are always exactly 322 members in this clandestine and conspiratorial secret order, and both George W. Bush and John F. Kerry are current members. Satan not only sets his schemes in motion but also marks his activities.

Many strange things happen on the campaign trails, and Hillary Clinton has been appointed to head something called the “Truth Squad” for John Kerry. (19) It appears that John Kerry has big plans for Hillary Clinton. We also know that Vice President Dick Cheney, while speaking in Davenport, Iowa, announced that he is opposed to the ban on gay marriages. Cheney has a daughter who is an out-of-the-closet flaming lesbian, and Cheney says that he fully supports her. (20) Those who think of the Bush-Cheney campaign as a “Christian” ticket should think again. Recently, when President Bush was speaking in Oregon, a questioner humbly asked, “Mr. President, could you take a moment to pray for Oregon, for us right now?” Mr. Bush flatly refused!

[philingraham]

"good luck, philingraham and come visit free Europe anytime you want. You're welcome to stay a bit longer if you will.".....Olivier

As dissappointed as I was at the outcome of the election I can't say I was surprised. The Administration was very effective in the way they pushed the fear factor.
Reading thru the thread I noticed a tendency to downplay the influence of the Religious Right. This is spin all the way. They are coming for their pound of flesh and they're going to get it.
Thank you for your kind invite but I'm afraid that my place is here. This is the very worst time for Liberals go elsewhere and knuckle under. The cultural divide is real and won't go away anytime soon. As Bush purges his "weaklings" the people who surround him will counsel him on an increasingly Machevelian
basis to press his advantage. Bush has sown a wind and now he's going to reap a whirlwind. Events will overtake him that no amount of Religion or Ideology will cure.
Even on the Israel Forum there is room for competing points of view to emerge. I am confident that will continue to be the case. I encourage Liberals to continue posting here.

[minusthejihad]

Welcome to IF.com Illuminatus. Careful what you say, or you will be the 45th person on Olivier's ignore list. He has a habit of putting you there when he can't stand your opinion or you prove him wrong. Looks like you are headed there soon! :) Welcome!

[Illuminatus]

But I'm not so sure what this "ignore list" is all about.
It sounds as though personal ad homimens are the real concern,
and not the fair exchange and respect of opposing ideas?

My own concern (if you want to call it that) is with our very
patient forum moderators and all that they have to put up with.

I have a feeling that they get hit from all sides.

Besides, it's the internet, you have to enjoy being proven wrong.

I certainly don't mind being proven wrong. It's what makes the
internet (and probably this forum) that much more fun.

best regards minusthejihad

[Olivier]

"good luck, philingraham and come visit free Europe anytime you want. You're welcome to stay a bit longer if you will.".....Olivier

As dissappointed as I was at the outcome of the election I can't say I was surprised. The Administration was very effective in the way they pushed the fear factor.
Reading thru the thread I noticed a tendency to downplay the influence of the Religious Right. This is spin all the way. They are coming for their pound of flesh and they're going to get it.
Thank you for your kind invite but I'm afraid that my place is here.I'm persuaded you are more efficent staying in the US and having your voice heard.. Now if you need a holiday ;)




This is the very worst time for Liberals go elsewhere and knuckle under. The cultural divide is real and won't go away anytime soon. As Bush purges his "weaklings" the people who surround him will counsel him on an increasingly Machevelian basis to press his advantage. Bush has sown a wind and now he's going to reap a whirlwind. Events will overtake him that no amount of Religion or Ideology will cure.
Even on the Israel Forum there is room for competing points of view to emerge. I am confident that will continue to be the case. I encourage Liberals to continue posting here.There are very few of them here. very few. I think Mira is, but that pretty much sums it.

Please note that there is real worry in Europe about what America is becoming



Bush, God, and Moral Values
By Edwy Plenel
Le Monde

Friday 12 November 2004

George W. Bush's electoral victory was decreed. In a speech at least, or rather a sermon: in Washington National Cathedral, September 14, 2001, where all the United States' political elite was assembled, communing under the shock of the previous Tuesday's attacks, the evangelical pastor Billy Graham concluded his homily with these astonishing words: "This day - September 11 - could be remembered as a day of victory if the American people came closer to God."

September 11 - a day of victory then, victory over divisions, derelictions, and weaknesses, the victory of America over itself, God's victory above all, insisted this charismatic preacher, universal televangelist, and religious star (cf. Sébastien Fath, Billy Graham, pape protestant? , Albin Michel, 2002, 22 Euros): "Now we have a choice: either to implode and disintegrate emotionally and spiritually as a people and a nation; or to chose to become stronger through these troubles and to rebuild a solid foundation. (...)This foundation is our confidence in God. (...)We also know that God will give wisdom, courage, and strength to the President and his entourage."

[B]Christian Populism

Since that time we have come to know the two ingredients of that victory: fear and values. We have seen fear at work, instrumentalized and manipulated politically through the "war" against terrorism, through the image of this Bin Laden figure brought out of his hiding place at an appointed time to become the self-realizing prophecy of a Messianic America, departed on an armed Crusade against the forces of Evil. The president's principal advisor, the slick Karl Rove, figured out how to add in the ideological refrain of "moral values", a currency which includes rejection of abortion rights, repudiation of homosexual marriage, defense of prayer in school, and assertion of the freedom to own weapons. An ultraconservative Republican, Karl Rove comes from precisely this Christian Right, this Christian Coalition for which Graham and so many others have prepared the White House advent, now realized in the Bush Jr. presidency.

All given over to our European rationality, we only had eyes for the other side of this presidency, the Neo-Conservative intellectuals, who sometimes came from the Democratic left and were close to our debates on totalitarianism, who installed their booted and helmeted universalism, this dream that is not without reminders of our own colonial illusions, this belief that human rights and democratic institutions may not only be imposed by cannon fire, but especially that it can lastingly win the trust of the subject and conquered people who are supposed to be its beneficiaries. Focusing there, we had underestimated the differently powerful dynamism of this Christian populism, which, in thirty years, has found a way to nest right in the heart of American identity contradictions.

One Speech that Recalls Another

For Billy Graham and his like incarnate this American "civil religion", this philo-clerical secularism that Tocqueville already remarked, which combines universalism and providence, exceptionalism and Christianity, politics and prophecy, thus defining a Messianism of power in which the ideals of freedom overlap with the values of faith. Now, in a democratic context, this is truly a matter of potential contradiction, pregnant with threats to individuals and their rights. The "values" thus promoted, a faith established in residence within American politics, are in no way neutral, unifying, or unanimous. Setting out a discourse of repentance and contrition, they project private convictions into public space, replacing democratic uncertainty with religious certitude, imposing individual beliefs instead of and in place of collective principles guaranteeing individual rights. The force of arms, the submission of women, the sanctification of marriage, distrust of the foreign, etc.: those values shake the democratic ideal since that ideal is, above all, a defense of individual freedoms.

In 1996, as he received the United States' Congress' gold medal, Billy Graham said this: "Now, while we are facing a new millennium, I believe that America has been traveling down the wrong path for a long time. We must change direction, turn aside, and go backwards. We must repent and consecrate our lives to God and to the principles which have made this nation glorious..." Of course, it's only a resonance, but this speech reminds us [French] of another one, on the day after a defeat that was also a trauma: "Since the victory [in 1918], the spirit of enjoyment has gotten the better of the spirit of sacrifice. We have asserted more than we've served. We wanted to spare ourselves effort; today we encounter the misfortune of that." We know what followed for Philippe Pétain and his "Work, Family, Homeland." What will it be for George Bush?

[Illuminatus]

Don't forget to pick up a copy of a hot best seller in Paris.

" 50 Good Reasons to Hate Americans " (http://www.pressedefrance.com/PresseBin/pressefr.dll/AGET?ID=IEP92PJYQOYGN9QH&ACTION=TITRE&PARUTION=133054)

(no mention of Boooosh here -- simply all Americans)

This best selling book summarizes your basic across-the-board hatred
for ALL Americans in "free Europe" (France).

It's hilarious that travel agencies seem to blame the "high euro"
for the 60 percent drop in tourism to France. Never mind that there
where times when the dollar-to-franc exchange rate was even worst than
this recent sorry excuse, and that never slowed travel to "free Europe".
So what's the real reason?

Needless to say their daily newspapers are not all that much better.
French demography specialist Emmanuel Todd expressed his loathing
for Americans and their electoral process in this recent article
in La Libération. (http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=251316)

A few excerpts:

[... the problem is not Bush, it's the whole United States and
the evolution of its people, ravaged by a regressive, aggressive
ideology. (..) the whole of American society exists as a predator
for the rest of the world (..) the American system has transformed
the working class into a plebeian who lives at the expense of the rest
of the world..]

I myself blame the Bush tax cuts for our moral depravity and
lack of values : )