no one signed up to run away

[Mediocrates]

http://www.israelnn.com/article.php3?id=4492

No One Signed Up
by Rachel Saperstein
December 01, 2004

The morning news gave us the latest pronouncement from the Prime Minister's Office: Gush Katif residents have until May 2005 to apply for compensation for their homes. After May they will lose all rights to compensation, and their homes and farms will become the property of the government.

My first reaction to each day's pronouncement is: "Okay, here we go again." Each day, we are hit with another bit of psychological warfare by a government in panic mode. Why this hysteria on the part of the government?

The answer has come through loud and clear. Not one person in Gush Katif has signed up to collect compensation. Even the three families - out of 1,750 - that have expressed interest in compensation have not signed. Gush Katif residents have not called, made inquiries, or clicked into the "Expulsion website" to get information as to where we Jews can be relocated.

There are no threats, pronouncements, declarations, votes or conciliatory murmurs that seem to move the people of Gush Katif. The Jews of Gaza simply refuse to play the game.

A few weeks ago, our B'nei Menashe neighbors, Jews from northeast India, were invited on a free trip to the Galilee. The trip was arranged clandestinely by Jonathan Bassi's "Expulsion Committee" to use for photo-ops: "Gush Katif Residents View Their New Homes." When the ruse was discovered, all of the folks refused to get on the buses that were sent for them. Their message was clear: "We are not leaving Gush Katif!"

We live in a war zone. Any moment of the day or night, mortars and rockets explode in our communities. Going jogging at night might put you at risk. Going to the supermarket might lead to being hit by a mortar falling into the town square.

So, why not leave? Why live this way? It is not normal for people to want to remain in a war zone. Friends and family do not come to visit. Yet, we are determined not to give the Land of Israel to the Arabs.

We should be the pride of Israel. Glorious poems and songs should be written and sung in praise of our bravery and resistance. Instead, we are denigrated by the media. The CEO of Tnuva, the giant dairy company, recently called us "a cancer in Israeli society."

Still, we have not faltered. We have chosen the true ideology and spirituality of Biblical Zionism.

We remain here with our infants and children. Women here have the highest birthrate in Israel. Our children are the healthiest, with the lowest fear quotient in Israel. Our youth recently went out and built a synagogue in honor of Tifferet Tratner and Yisrael Lutati, killed in defense of Gush Katif.

The government is in a panic. They are building prison camps for us. They threaten us each day. Meanwhile, the citizens of Gush Katif stand firm and do not sign away our homes and property.

[Originally appeared on English.katif.net (http://www.english.katif.net/), the English website of the residents of Gush Katif.]

[Mediocrates]

http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/4500.htm
I am a settler
By Ashley Perry December 2, 2004

I am a settler. According to most of the world, I and people like me are to blame for violence in the Mideast, global terrorism, even tribal warfare in The Sudan. I'm sure that, given time, the hurricanes hitting seacoasts around the world could also be attributed to the settlers.

If I were to be viciously murdered and hacked to death along with children and old people tomorrow, it wouldn't be the person wielding the knife who would be at fault, it would be me and us to blame!

I am an enemy of the world. I am a more nefarious and violent entity than Al Qaeda, the murderers of the school children in Beslan, the Madrid bombers, The Junjaweed in Sudan, Al Zaqaawi in Iraq,etc. When terrorists perpetrate their acts, the media fall over themselves to try and understand why. Was it their upbringing? Were they social outcasts, picked on at school?

Whatever the reason, they will find out and paint a very human picture to these humans who commit inhuman acts. I am a settler, apparently I got up one day and felt like oppressing the poor Palestinians and stealing their land and that is the whole of my story.

In media reports around the world I do not have a gender, I do not have a profession, I do not have likes or dislikes, I have no context. I am always referred to as a 'settler', sometimes I am afforded the prefix 'extremist' or 'right-wing'.

I can tell you that I am new at this 'settling' business. A few months ago I wasn't a settler and if I was killed it would be partially condemned by oh, let's see.....at least four or five governments. Today I wouldn't receive even that. I have moved only a few miles geographically yet a whole world in terms of legitimacy. I dared to move across the hallowed 'Green Line'.

I am sure the whole world knows what the Green Line is and how it got its name. I am sure they know that it was created by two generals on opposing sides in war sitting in a tent in the middle of nowhere attempting to muddle out a ceasefire. I am sure too that the world knows that the only marker they had to delineate the lines of cease-fire was a thick green magic marker pen which when making the line on the map was sometimes miles thick.

That is it, a cease-fire line. Not the borders of a state, not the ending of a peace plan, but a line showing where two armies had finished their fighting and decided on a truce. When people talk of 1967 borders, they are being factually incorrect. One can only border a sovereign state.

Which brings me to my next important fact which I am positive the world knows. There has never been a sovereign Palestine, ever in the history of man. Never a Palestinian King, President, ruler. Never a distinct Palestinian language or culture or currency.

So where is it I have moved to, I hear you ask. I can tell you that the last Internationally recognized agreement pertaining to this land was called 'The Balfour Declaration' which was adopted by The League of Nations in the early part of the twentieth century which called for a Jewish Home including where I now live....and nothing since. So at best surely where I live could be called 'disputed'. I recognize that there is a dispute, there are two people wanting to claim this land where I live. I do not occupy it any more than an arab who lives down the road from me.

Speaking of Arabs, the world knows where I stand on them. Surely, I want them gone from here or dead perhaps and I pray continually for their destruction. Well I have some news for the world: I don't hate the Arabs or anyone particularly. I hate traffic, cold mornings and finding the colour of my clothes have run in the washing machine, but I don't hate people. I have never hurt anyone in my life, nor do I intend to. I am not a pacifist, nor am I violent. I'm just like most people on this planet....a regular person. A regular person doesn't hate any particular people.

I have been told by many "more veteran" settlers that they remember before the Intifada when they used to go to the shops and souks of the local Arab towns and cities. They used to invite Arabs to their homes and celebrations and were invited back. Yes, these were the evil settlers pouring tea to their Arab guests of their home and enquiring about the health of their relatives. These were the abhorrent Arab-hating settlers who would moan about the weather with the Arab shopkeepers as they did their weekly grocery shopping. What may surprise many is that most settlers long for these times again and dream of living side by side with Arabs or anyone in peace and harmony. Damn they are truly evil!

As a settler I am not allowed in many countries. I am sure you all knew the declaration of The Non-Aligned countries in the UN (a very large percentage of the world) that I am barred from their countries. While the world fights for civil rights for murderers and terrorists, mine are just shunted aside. But hey, it doesn't matter. As a Jew I am not allowed in many countries in the world and am forbidden from owning land in many, many more.

So yes I am a settler! I make no apology for it. I never hurt anyone, I never stole anyone's land. In fact the land I am living on wasn't lived on before I got here. No Palestinians were displaced to make room for me. I wanted to write this piece not to convert anyone to my way of thinking. I haven't even given my reasons for living here. I just wanted to give myself and those around me context.

I wanted to let you know that the BBC, CNN, etc don't know me or want to get to know me, they would rather shed a tear and try to 'understand' terrorism. I don't even seek anyone to understand me. I just want people to understand that there are two sides and to learn about both. To make a decision about something while only knowing one side is intellectually unsatisfying. Not to at least listen to both sides is dishonest.

So please send this on to as many people as possible, so more human beings can at least get at least a glimpse of this other, hidden side of a human dilemma.

Views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect those of israelinsider.

[Mediocrates]

The Gush Katif website:
http://www.english.katif.net/

As of now 4841 mortars have fallen on Gush Katif
http://www.katif.net/patzmar/en_bpatzmar.php

Gush Katif in the Wikiverse
http://gush-katif.wikiverse.org/

[Ophra]

This is a settler to ....

Jerusalem district court hands out eight-year sentence to Shahr Dvir-Zeliger, convicted of membership in an ultra-orthodox terrorist underground
Efrat Porsher

http://www.maarivintl.com/newsimages/dvir.jpg

Shahar Dvir-Zeliger, a resident of an illegal West Bank settlement was sentenced to eight years in prison by the Jerusalem District Court, which had previously convicted him of membership in the so called “New Jewish Underground”, as opposed to the first Jewish Underground, which operated against Palestinians in the eighties. Most of the other members of the underground, like Dvir-Zeliger are extreme right wing ultra-orthodox West Bank settlers.

The underground was uncovered by the ISA two years ago, when several West Bank residents were arrested. Dvir-Zeliger initially cooperated with the authorities, leading them to underground arms caches, which the underground intended to use in attacks against Arabs.

He subsequently refused to continue cooperating, and recanted the testimony he had given implicating himself and others. Ballistic tests showed the weapons had been used in attacks on Palestinians.

Justice Yehoram Noam said that the sentence must reflect society’s determination to uproot terrorism of any sort, and its right to protect itself against subversive elements willing to use violence to achieve their ends. He decided. However, to meet out a relatively light sentence, in view of the defendant’s sincere remorse, and his renunciation of violence as a political tool.

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=11916

[Mediocrates]

yes yes I've met some murderous criminals face to face as well.

[Ophra]

yes yes I've met some murderous criminals face to face as well.

Not over here I'm sure :D

[Ophra]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1064373874948

Connecting the dots, By Larry Derfner

I wasn't surprised, and I don't think anybody else was, when a "second Jewish terror underground" was uncovered by the Shin Bet over the summer.

That eight innocent Palestinians should get killed by a bunch of West Bank settlers in drive-by shootings and bombings with the intifada blazing, it seemed like the most natural thing in the world.

If a band of settlers was willing to shoot up a Palestinian college campus, cripple a Palestinian mayor, boobytrap Palestinian buses and plan the destruction of the Dome of the Rock in the early 1980s, when Palestinian terror wasn't a smidgen of what it's been in the early 2000s, why shouldn't there be a brotherhood of settler vigilante killers now?

In fact I was surprised that they'd killed only eight Arabs although they injured about twice that many, and a review of their attacks, which included school bombings, shows that if they'd been more proficient a whole lot more Arabs would have died.

I wasn't shocked, and frankly I wasn't too concerned because I didn't think it could go much further. What more could these guys do kill a few more innocent Palestinians? The IDF does that all the time with rare exceptions not deliberately, but rather as the inevitable result of its presence in the territories so what are a few more vigilante killings of Palestinians in these rough times?

Might the members of the underground take a different tack and try to kill Ariel Sharon? They might want to threats to Sharon from the far Right went up sharply after he signed off on the road map but they wouldn't try, I figured, because protection around Israeli prime ministers has become virtually impregnable since the Rabin assassination.

So the new Jewish terror underground didn't seem like such an awfully big deal. That changed, however, when Tuesday's Ma'ariv, quoting Shin Bet sources, reported that the conspirators had been talking of blowing up both the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aksa mosques on the Temple Mount, as well as other mosques, and also of killing Jews in Israel's "political echelon."

Shin Bet investigators learned this from their suspect-turned-informant, Shahar Dvir-Zeliger, who last week led them to caves in the West Bank where they found dynamite, rocket launchers, grenades, assault rifles, a machine gun and thousands of bullets much of it stolen from the IDF.

SO FAR only a dozen settlers have been implicated in the conspiracy, and half of them were released after they refused to tell interrogators anything. But between the members repeated killings of Palestinian passersby and their stockpiling of weapons, coupled with their reported goal of blowing up the Temple Mount mosques and killing Israeli political leaders, this Jewish underground is more than just a band of vigilantes.

Instead, this is a potential strategic threat to Israel in other words, a potential threat to the state's survival that's floating around the West Bank. This is the worst danger posed to Israel by Jews since the Rabin era, which ended with a strategic blow to the country. It had been in the air, had been warned about with mounting urgency until it fell.

This time around the Shin Bet uncovered the plot before anything catastrophic could occur. (The murder of innocents, including children, cannot be considered catastrophic in the present war only vicious, which is how the war is.)

So maybe the danger is over, maybe not. But even if the Jewish terrorists have been neutralized, we now have reason to fear that the militant Right whose home turf is the hilltop outposts and isolated settlements of the West Bank, along with numerous addresses in Jerusalem is nurturing quite a beast.

In these circles the members of the second Jewish underground, like those of the first, are the victims. The perpetrators besides, of course, the Arabs as a whole are the "Jewish section" of the Shin Bet, directed by the Sharon government, which, in the unblinking eyes of the extremists, has become no different than the judenrats of Rabin, Peres and Barak.

Speaking of the Shin Bet's "Jewish section" the unit that tracks Jewish militants Arutz 7 radio commentator Adir Zik, one of the most influential voices among the radical Right, told me in an interview a few weeks ago: "They are worse than the KGB, or the Savak [under the Shah of Iran] or the Stasi in communist East Germany."

In Zik's view, the Shin Bet is framing the young men of the new Jewish underground just as it framed Yigal Amir, just as it framed Baruch Goldstein. It wasn't Amir who killed Rabin, and it wasn't Goldstein who killed those 29 Palestinians in both cases the actual gunmen were agents of an amazing left-wing conspiracy to "finish off the Right," according to Zik.

"And the same thing is happening today," he went on, only this time it's Sharon who's behind the plot to blacken the settler movement's name.
Why? "Because Sharon today is more to the Left than Rabin was. He's planning a retreat from Judea and Samaria," explained Zik. (Bahahaha :D )

The same demonology was recounted to me by the wife of one of the suspects in the underground. Carrying on with the extremist line, she theorized that the vigilante killings had really been the work of Palestinians out to put the blame on the settlers just like the Shin Bet and the government, all the governments, have been doing.

This is the through-the-looking-glass logic of the militant Right the more diabolical the violence and incitement that issue from their midst, the more diabolical, in their eyes, become the forces trying to stop that violence and incitement.

It's a mechanism for escalation. In the early Eighties, it pointed at the Dome of the Rock. In 1995 it pointed at the top of Israel's "political echelon." Based on the picture emerging of the second Jewish terror underground, today it appears to be pointing in both those directions at once.

The writer is a veteran journalist and a regular contributor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mediocrates]

Other than simply stating it, what exactly is this existential threat posed by right wing refuseniks?I understand it is more important to fight amongst yourselves and tear yourselves down than it is to let the Palestinians murder you. That I accept but other than vaguely worded threats of people the article goes on to say haven't really divulged anything useful, what exactly is this threat? Mr. Derfner should resist the navel gazing and focus on journalism.


And no I did not meet any murderous people over there. Here, working with prisoners who are already in jail for killing people.

[Canajew]

Other than simply stating it, what exactly is this existential threat posed by right wing refuseniks?I understand it is more important to fight amongst yourselves and tear yourselves down than it is to let the Palestinians murder you. That I accept but other than vaguely worded threats of people the article goes on to say haven't really divulged anything useful, what exactly is this threat? Mr. Derfner should resist the navel gazing and focus on journalism.


And no I did not meet any murderous people over there. Here, working with prisoners who are already in jail for killing people.
fundamentally, Israel cannot retain the "land of Israel" without advancing equal rights to all its inhabitants. The Jews who refuse to evacuate make it more likely that Israel will be destroyed through a "one state solution".

Perhaps some of the land can be retained, but if the government says it will evacuate territory no one recognizes israels' rights over, then the people should follow.

Rewards for terrorism is a separate issue. At the end of the day, whether now or later, if peace between a free jewish Israel and some other entity is to ever take place, these people will have to leave.

[Mediocrates]

Fundamentally, Israel cannot retain the "land of Israel" without advancing equal rights to all its inhabitants.
I'm listening.......


The Jews who refuse to evacuate make it more likely that Israel will be destroyed through a "one state solution".
Which Jews would that be? The ones in East Jerusalem? Hevron? Binyamin?

Perhaps some of the land can be retained, but if the government says it will evacuate territory no one recognizes israels' rights over, then the people should follow.
I think that if you live by the demographic you die by the demographic. If they want peace let the Palestinians sacrifice land to get it. If the standard is that overall if 9% of your population being Jewish means that zero % MUST be Jewish then it's axiomatic that any Jewish city in Yesha should remain so and anything that is complex or difficult about connecting Gaza to Ramallah is no less difficult, or necessary, when connecting Kiryat Arba to the rest of Israel.

These few right wing criminals in the news (see above) are a man bites dog story that the rest of Israel wants to use as an excuse for failure and inaction in much the same way they shied away from action when Arafat told them what to do.

And what the few thousand Jews in Gaza and elsewhere are doing by refusing to sign up is their god given right to protest and to make their voices heard. You think it's a bad precident to make a problem of yourself? I think it's a bad precident to be first in line to be pushed away marginalized and ordered around by the state.

Who's next? The poor? The elderly? The Druze? People who live on choice realestate? The Frum? Who wants to line up for the better good of people who themselves sacrifice nothing?

Rewards for terrorism is a separate issue. At the end of the day, whether now or later, if peace between a free jewish Israel and some other entity is to ever take place, these people will have to leave.
Maybe yes maybe no. In either case may it be a stain on the history of Israel, the country who, when push came to shove cut it's own finger off, not because it made sense but because it felt everyone else would appreciate their sacrifice and feel as sorry for them as they do. What will the PLO leave off the table? Right of Return? Apparently not. End to terrorism? No not that one either. Jerusalem? Uh, no, sorry they want that too.

[Leon]

[QUOTE=Canajew]fundamentally, Israel cannot retain the "land of Israel" without advancing equal rights to all its inhabitants. The Jews who refuse to evacuate make it more likely that Israel will be destroyed through a "one state solution".

Yes they can. they already grant equal rights to arabs living in the 48 partitioned part of Israel and that is good enough. Israel has no obligation however to offer equal rights to those who dont recognise the state and seek its destruction. The only thing they owe them is imprisoment or expulsion.

[Leon]

This is a settler to ....

Jerusalem district court hands out eight-year sentence to Shahr Dvir-Zeliger, convicted of membership in an ultra-orthodox terrorist underground
Efrat Porsher

http://www.maarivintl.com/newsimages/dvir.jpg

Shahar Dvir-Zeliger, a resident of an illegal West Bank settlement was sentenced to eight years in prison by the Jerusalem District Court, which had previously convicted him of membership in the so called “New Jewish Underground”, as opposed to the first Jewish Underground, which operated against Palestinians in the eighties. Most of the other members of the underground, like Dvir-Zeliger are extreme right wing ultra-orthodox West Bank settlers.

The underground was uncovered by the ISA two years ago, when several West Bank residents were arrested. Dvir-Zeliger initially cooperated with the authorities, leading them to underground arms caches, which the underground intended to use in attacks against Arabs.

He subsequently refused to continue cooperating, and recanted the testimony he had given implicating himself and others. Ballistic tests showed the weapons had been used in attacks on Palestinians.

Justice Yehoram Noam said that the sentence must reflect society’s determination to uproot terrorism of any sort, and its right to protect itself against subversive elements willing to use violence to achieve their ends. He decided. However, to meet out a relatively light sentence, in view of the defendant’s sincere remorse, and his renunciation of violence as a political tool.

http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=11916


oooh PLO and Hamas - eat your heart out.

[Allegro]

fundamentally, Israel cannot retain the "land of Israel" without advancing equal rights to all its inhabitants...

Let the Palestinian Arab get 70% of Palestine and the Palestinian Jews will get the other 30%. In between the Jordan River will the permanent international border. The capitol of the Arab state will be Amman and the capitol of the Jew - Jerusalem. Palestinian Arabs will vote for the Amman's parliament and the Palestinian Jews will vote for the Knesset in Jerusalem. Jews who will choose to live in the Arab state will pay local taxes but will vote to the Knesset. Arabs who will stay under Israel sovereignty will pay local taxes and will vote for their parliament in Amman. Arab refugees will be settled in the Palestinian Arab state with the help of international sponsoring countries.

That's the only real historical solution for that problem.

[varian]

This sound sensible, which usually means that the politicos will probably not give this type of scenario a chance. Too bad more "leaders" don't care as much for their own people as they do about owning a Swiss bank account. The basis of this scenario warrants an honest hearing. Take this ball and run with it.