Another Sharon win: Likud supports inclusion of Labor in gov't

[sharonbn]

Likud supports resolution on coalition talks with Labor

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/511991.html

A resolution backed by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on whether to hold talks with the Labor Party on joining a unity government won a Likud internal vote Thursday night.

More than 62 percent of Likud Central Committee delegates who voted - 1,410 people - were in favor of the negotiations, according to "almost official" figures announced by Likud bigwig Yisrael Katz.

Note: According to TV comentator, the reason for the Likd center's decision is not so much for the love of the Labor, as it is fear of the alternative, meaning elections. They simply fear of losing the elections and with it all the nice jobs they got...

[KettleWhistle]

It's a win for Sharon, but is it a win for Israel?

[takeo]

the Gaza withdrawel plan is a step forwards and a defeat for the extremists, but will labour also demand further steps?

[Mediocrates]

Labor seems to offer or suggest nothing. Whether they demand something is a different point. They seem to be eagerly demand being included in the govt and little else. Since Sharon has already largely expropriated the media talking points of Labor there seems to be little else for Labor to bring to the table. Perhaps they can reinvent themselves but certainly making themselves more Left than old Labor, more radical than before will not fly. Perhaps Labor can turn into an NGO that professionally feels bad about misfortunate people.

[KettleWhistle]

the Gaza withdrawel plan is a step forwards and a defeat for the extremists, but will labour also demand further steps?
Labor are the extremists.

[KSO]

Labor are the extremists.In doing nothing and having no Morale backbone, also they are extermists in having no political, economical or foreign agenda and the faster they'll dissapear the better for us it will be, and maybe we will have a real left opposition party.

[Mediocrates]

What the hell does that mean? You want a one party system or you want crazy people in the opposition.

Maybe you need regional elections and voting districts first.

[KettleWhistle]

Israel needs separation of powers/checks and ballances system to stop all the coalition-or-election nonsense. Popularly elected PM or President, and Knesset that would have the power to approve or disapprove anything proposed by the leader would be a good start.

[KSO]

What the hell does that mean? You want a one party system or you want crazy people in the opposition.

Maybe you need regional elections and voting districts first.
That means that the Labour party is not an oposition party and not a left wing party, and unfrtunately they truly have no principales good or bad ones, luckily enough withthe unity goverment we will kill two birds with one stone, first the Gaza settlements will be evacuated and in the next elections the Labour party will stop being a major political power and that will leave a place for a truly left wing social-democratic party.

[Mediocrates]

How much more truly leftwing socialist would you like? It's seems kind of anachronistic in this day and age.

[KettleWhistle]

As far as socialist goes, Likud is pretty leftwing.

[sharonbn]

As far as socialist goes, Likud is pretty leftwing.
you must be kidding.
Netanyahu is the most anti-socialist treasury minister ever in Israel. He could well be the treasury minister of the US.
Perhaps you meant as far as political policy goes, Likud is pretty leftwing.

[KettleWhistle]

IMO Netanyahu is an a big time weasel, an Israeli Slick Willy Clinton. He reminds me of a used car salesman, and the sooner his political career will be over, the better.

As for Likud, I'd say that politically they are populist-centrist.

[KSO]

How much more truly leftwing socialist would you like? It's seems kind of anachronistic in this day and age.
In this day and age democracy itself seems anachronistic, but what can we do...

[KSO]

IMO Netanyahu is an a big time weasel, an Israeli Slick Willy Clinton. He reminds me of a used car salesman, and the sooner his political career will be over, the better.

As for Likud, I'd say that politically they are populist-centrist.Politically the Likud party is a rulling party, just like both the democratic and the republican party in the US The only goal and ideal of a rulling party is to rule, and to convince the public they need to head the goverment and not the "other" party, the main problem of the our country that there is no Other party today, and the labour party is so much of a joke that is no longer funny.

[KettleWhistle]

Labor has been a joke since Golda Meyer. And Likud is no better. But the real problem is the lack of accountability, since it is virtually impossible to "fire" or impeach an Israeli career politician.

[KSO]

Labor has been a joke since Golda Meyer. And Likud is no better. But the real problem is the lack of accountability, since it is virtually impossible to "fire" or impeach an Israeli career politician.All politicians are career politicians, I doubt that there are any left anywhere in the world who actually have some sort of backbone, but I don't ask to much from Israeli politicians they may continue be small time low life petty criminals but they shouldn't be so open and proud of it.

[philingraham]

All politicians are career politicians, I doubt that there are any left anywhere in the world who actually have some sort of backbone...KSO


W...

[KSO]

All politicians are career politicians, I doubt that there are any left anywhere in the world who actually have some sort of backbone...KSO


W...
I know that amigo, but if you could see The Israeli TV and see how they brag about themselves being corrupt interesants, I have no problem of them doing it, just be little bit more discreet about it, that's all.

[KettleWhistle]

W is not a career politician. He'll be done after this term. Plenty of career politicians got kicked out of office for good in the U.S.: Gray Davis, the guy that was shagging Shandra Levy, Tom Dashle, Edwin Edwards. No President has ever stayed truly politically active here either.


Now compare that to Israel: Peres should've been retired in the 80s, yet he's still running his big dirty mouth. Netanyahu should've been done a long time ago. Barak is back too. And that's a problem in Israeli politics. There is neither accountability, nor is there a way to boot people out via term limits, or otherwise.

[KSO]

W is not a career politician. He'll be done after this term. Plenty of career politicians got kicked out of office for good in the U.S.: Gray Davis, the guy that was shagging Shandra Levy, Tom Dashle, Edwin Edwards. No President has ever stayed truly politically active here either.



I think that the hate of "career politicians" or "Washington insiders" In the US is a reminder of Watergate, and still "Career Politicians" are much better than Generals that storm to a political office without any understanding of how it works (See Ehud Barak)

[KettleWhistle]

I tend to think it is more a matter of him being a moron than not knowing how it works. And despite all his failures he is still in politics.

[KSO]

I tend to think it is more a matter of him being a moron than not knowing how it works. And despite all his failures he is still in politics.
I don't think he is a moron, after all he was a brilliant military man, but it's the problem of a man who can't understand cilvil life probably because he was part of the military since the age of 18 to 52, now try to explain to a general that a small time deputy minister can have demands and can bring to his fall, With Sharon the case is different because he succeds in politics because of his experience he only fails in running the country...

[philingraham]

I don't think he is a moron, after all he was a brilliant military man, but it's the problem of a man who can't understand cilvil life probably because he was part of the military since the age of 18 to 52, now try to explain to a general that a small time deputy minister can have demands and can bring to his fall, With Sharon the case is different because he succeds in politics because of his experience he only fails in running the country...

Elaborate on how Sharon is different...

[KettleWhistle]

I don't think he is a moron, after all he was a brilliant military man, but it's the problem of a man who can't understand cilvil life probably because he was part of the military since the age of 18 to 52, now try to explain to a general that a small time deputy minister can have demands and can bring to his fall, With Sharon the case is different because he succeds in politics because of his experience he only fails in running the country...
Becoming a general requires political skill. But he wasn't that great of general, he just had good strategists around him. To his credit, he has done the right thing by pulling out of Lebanon. But his problem was lack of leadership and most definitely lack of forsight. He was just Clinton's puppet, who's done nothing to protect Israel, or to hold Arafat responsible for terrorism. The difference between him and Sharon, is that Sharon took charge, and has made Israel secure despite all the yapping from Euroscum who didn't want that.

[Mediocrates]

He's pissed of the left and the right. He must be doing something right.

[philingraham]

So did W...OK, you piss off everybody. And it FEELS good ! And Arrafat is dead ! Now what ?

[Mediocrates]

Pretty much what you expected to occur. No Gaza, pullback from most of the West Bank, no right of return, no divided Jerusalem, no return of the Golan, better or at least functioning relationships with Egypt and Jordan, religious parties thrown out of the government and increasing privatization in the economy.

[philingraham]

Pretty much what you expected to occur. No Gaza, pullback from most of the West Bank, no right of return, no divided Jerusalem, no return of the Golan, better or at least functioning relationships with Egypt and Jordan, religious parties thrown out of the government and increasing privatization in the economy.

No Gaza... Great
Pullback from most of the West bank...really, most of it ?
No right of return... Obviously
No divided Jerusalem... maybe
No return of the Golan... we'll see
Better relationships with Egypt and Jordan... for sure
Religious parties thrown out of Gov't...HOW?
Increasing Privatization of the Economy...you tell me

Merry Christmas

[KettleWhistle]

He's pissed of the left and the right. He must be doing something right.
He doesn't care for the next term in office, so no need to brownnose anyone anymore.

[KSO]

Pretty much what you expected to occur. No Gaza, pullback from most of the West Bank, no right of return, no divided Jerusalem, no return of the Golan, better or at least functioning relationships with Egypt and Jordan, religious parties thrown out of the government and increasing privatization in the economy.The Israeli goverment almost officialy announced that Jerusalem will be divided it happened few days after Arafat's death, when Almert said that Arabs in some areas of Jerusalem will be able to vote in the upcoming Palestinian elections, the probelm is that by Israeli law you can have a double citeznship but not with an enemy country, so they are de-facto saying parts of Jerusalem will be returned, but for some reason no one noticed and everybody hate Barak who's crime was offering to the Palestinians to call Abu Dis Jerusalem and have it as their capital (Abu-Dis is just a part of jerusalem like New York is a part of Jerusalem)

[KettleWhistle]

The Israeli goverment almost officialy announced that Jerusalem will be divided it happened few days after Arafat's death, when Almert said that Arabs in some areas of Jerusalem will be able to vote in the upcoming Palestinian elections, the probelm is that by Israeli law you can have a double citeznship but not with an enemy country, so they are de-facto saying parts of Jerusalem will be returned, but for some reason no one noticed and everybody hate Barak who's crime was offering to the Palestinians to call Abu Dis Jerusalem and have it as their capital (Abu-Dis is just a part of jerusalem like New York is a part of Jerusalem)Letting them vote was just a political move. Israelis are generally politically stupid, but they are not that stupid.

And supposedly offering Abu-Dis (nobody knows what he really offered, since that was never revealed) wasn't his only crime. It was also his "it is the last 20th time I am warning you to stop terrorism" warnings to Arafat. As opposed to Sharon, whos priority was to confront terrorism no matter who says what.