An interesting opinion

[michael]

"I would give back all the territories. Why is Saron waging war? To kill farmers, bomb Gaza, and then find out afterwards that the victims include women and children? We're a people that suffered the Holocaust. How can we do such things? What we're doing is making the Palestinians rise up, and I understand them"
Yaffa Yarkoni, April14.

" All I do and all I say is solely out of love for this country. The Palestinians are entitled to have their own state. Good God, nothing can be done to stop it. They will get it in the end. So why is there all this killing in Israel and the territories?" Yaffa Yarkoni, May 3.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by michael
"I would give back all the territories. Why is Saron waging war? To kill farmers, bomb Gaza, and then find out afterwards that the victims include women and children? We're a people that suffered the Holocaust. How can we do such things? What we're doing is making the Palestinians rise up, and I understand them"
Yaffa Yarkoni, April14.

" All I do and all I say is solely out of love for this country. The Palestinians are entitled to have their own state. Good God, nothing can be done to stop it. They will get it in the end. So why is there all this killing in Israel and the territories?" Yaffa Yarkoni, May 3.

I have noticed that Arabs are continually baffled by Israelis having differences of opinion on political matters. Every Israeli minority opinion is treated by Arabs as a supreme revelation. Whether it is the microscopic minority of Neturie Karta, who are Jews who oppose an Israeli state before the arrival of the Messiah, or whether it is any extreme government opposition group like Meretz, for example.

I speculate that, since Arabs come from brutal dictatoriships where opposing the government's policies is punishable by torture, life-long imprisonment and reprisals against the dissident's family, that they do not really understand the nature of Israeli opposition properly.

Yes, Israel is a democracy, which means citizens and even singers like Yaffa Yarkoni are entitled to oppose the overwhelming majority of Israelis' views. And all political groups, including Israeli Arab political parties, are allowed to voice their opposition in Israel.

The fact is that the Israeli government and its policies are formed by democratic vote. In the last elections, Sharon won with an overwhelming majority supporting his policies. That is a fact that would be a good thing for Arabs to understand.

The vast majority of Israelis totally disagree with past-prime singer Yaffa Yarkoni on most of her views, although Ariel Sharon himself has called for the formation of a Palestinian state, as agreed by most Israelis. But the Palestinian terrorism must stop, and there needs to be guarantees that the new Palestinian state will not pose a security threat for Israel.

But please tell me something, Michael, why do you think that there is not a single Palestinian group calling for an end to terrorism (not in Israel, not in the Palestinian territories, not in any of the 22 Arab states, not in any of the Muslim states, not among the Arab community in Europe, the U.S. or Australia)? Why is there no Palestinian peace camp at all?

[michael]

Yaffa Yarkoni had an illuminating response to her statement.

From the daily Ma'ariv"Yaffa Yarkoni has joined the new European anti-semites"

Reported in the Guardian "The Israeli Union of Performing Artists cancelled a gala evening that had been planned in her honour. Since then she has received hundreds of insulting and threatening telephone calls, faxes and emails. She no longer goes out for fear of attack..."

As for no Palestinian peace camp, one doesn't have to look too hard. Take one outspoken critic for example;

"There is now a creeping, nasty wave of anti-semitism and hypocritical self-righteousness insinuating itself in our political thought and rhetoric. One thing must be clear: we are not fighting the injustices of Zionism in order to replace them with an inviduous nationalism that decrees that Arabs in Palestine are more equal than others.......Our battle is for democracy and equal rights, for a secular commonwealth or state in which all its members are equal citizens..." Edward Said.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by michael
As for no Palestinian peace camp, one doesn't have to look too hard. Take one outspoken critic for example;

"There is now a creeping, nasty wave of anti-semitism and hypocritical self-righteousness insinuating itself in our political thought and rhetoric. One thing must be clear: we are not fighting the injustices of Zionism in order to replace them with an inviduous nationalism that decrees that Arabs in Palestine are more equal than others.......Our battle is for democracy and equal rights, for a secular commonwealth or state in which all its members are equal citizens..." Edward Said.

But in fact, Edward Said is for the destruction of Israel. He is perhaps the leading voice calling for the establishment of a secular state in place of Israel.

He also lives in the U.S. -- not an Arab country.

Finally, Edward Said claims to be a dispossessed Palestinian. Unlike Yasser Arafat, his claim that he was born in Jerusalem is true. But Said was born during a family visit in the 1930s. His family actually lived in Cairo. His claim that he is a Palestinian is a lie.

You still haven't risen to NewsGuy's challenge: show us a single Arab group (or even individual!) living in an Arab country that speaks out against the PA's war against Israel. You can't, not because such people don't exist, but because they are not permitted to speak.

[elke]

Reported in the Guardian "The Israeli Union of Performing Artists cancelled a gala evening that had been planned in her honour. Since then she has received hundreds of insulting and threatening telephone calls, faxes and emails. She no longer goes out for fear of attack..."

Couldn't find the article. Source?

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by michael
As for no Palestinian peace camp, one doesn't have to look too hard. Take one outspoken critic for example... Edward Said.

Edward Sa'id may want a non-Islamic government in the Palestinian territories, but nowhere has he called for the replacement of Arafat's brutal and corrupt dictatorship. LIkewise, nowhere has he called for Palestinians to stop all violence and terrorism, renounce their outrageous demands and compromise to achieve peace.

Even in his admission that anti-Semitism has been part of the Arab culture, he never names any specific names, so as not to make waves.

You and I both know that if any Palestinian would call for an end to violence against Israelis, s/he would be shot or bombed immediately by their fellow Muslims. That's why there is no Palestinian peace camp in any country -- fear of Arab and Islamic society's violence against those who call for an end to violence.

[Iori Yagami]

Originally posted by elke
Reported in the Guardian "The Israeli Union of Performing Artists cancelled a gala evening that had been planned in her honour. Since then she has received hundreds of insulting and threatening telephone calls, faxes and emails. She no longer goes out for fear of attack..."

Couldn't find the article. Source?

It was not cancelled, it was postponed, and when it actually did take place, it was a stage for creeps like Ori Avneri to speak up.
The whole matter was inflated way too much. Fact is, that it`s very old news now, I`m surprised that people still discuss about it.

[michael]

I'll do my best to answer some of your questions.

The source article is in the Gaurdian May 11, 2002 by Sylvain Cypel.


As for Mr Said I think he has sais some interesting things;

"We have been saddled with poor leadership ever since I can remember, and we still persist in supporting the same bankrupt group through all its mistakes and disasters.....There is no basic law where the Palestinian Authority rules today, the result of one mans' whim not to approve such a law, in flagrant defiance of the Legislative Council". Our universities are in an appalling state..."

"It is no use blaming the failures of the current PLO on a few inadequate and corrupt individuals. The fact is that we now have the leadership we deserve..."

"The struggle for the 21st century is the struggle to achieve self-liberation and self-decolonisation."

".. to kill bus passengers or children in the name of God is a horror to be unconditionally condemned, as much as one should also condemn leaders who send young people on suicide missions."

There is plenty more if you want.
Said has been attacked quite widely by Palestians and Arabs who also don't like what he says.

[Mediocrates]

"The struggle for the 21st century is the struggle to achieve self-liberation and self-decolonisation."


a.k.a. Civil War in the name of whatever plays well to the media. Exactly which Arab nations does Mr. Said propose self liberate and decolonise themselves? Egypt? Tunisia? How about Syia? He can't bring himself to say that Arab countries have to rise up and revolt against their own tyrants so he'll blame it on the English Empire, long gone, and the Jews, who he has in his sights.

[michael]

Said was referring to the Palestinians in particular in that quote.

In response.

"... have been bitterly disappointed by the Yasir Arafat's PA towards it's own citizens. All the human rights groups have commented on the lawlessness ,corruption and sheer brutality of PA security men...... It is no use in blaming Israel or imperialism for this situation.... but Arabs-collectively and individually, also bear responsibility."

"There is a coarse inhumanity to public life in the Arab world that is deeply shocking......the problem begins at home" Edward Said, Jan '98.