I am the American Jew.

[Adam Aizen]

I am the American Jew. I support the idea of a State of Israel, but I do not endorse the current reality of the State of Israel. I know some Yiddish and bit more Hebrew, but couldn't debate Israeli politics with an Israeli in our own tongue. I buy Kosher food, keep a kosher house (well, almost...at the holiday's), and have all standard rituals performed with my kids; but I couldn't really explain what they mean... I am the American Jew.

I have been to Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox shuls; have shuckled with Kabbalists and eaten Taco Bell in a TBI Temple at a Bar Mitzvah. My Gentile friends and neighbors know that I'm Jewish, but if we stood in a police lineup - you'd be hard pressed to pick me as the Jew. I am so fully assimilated that I tried to marry a Shiksah (as it turns out, she is halakhically Jewish).

Born and raised. I am the American Jew - and I dare you to say it. Yeah, you. The average Joe Public. Go ahead, call me an American Jew. You can't. Why not? Mind Control. That is the simple truth. Mind Control.

I don't mean a bald guy in the adjacent apartment with a MicroWave device aimed at your head. No, this mind control is not that subtle. This is blatant social conditioning through mass mind control. Watch a gentile fumble aroung looking for a way to replace the word, "Jew" with the word, "Jewish." Why? Because it is offensive to say Jew.

Offensive? But, I just said it a doizen times. Jew. Jew, Jew, Jew, Jew Jew. Offended? No? Well of course not - I am Jewish, it's okay for me to say Jew. Just like rappers can say nigga, right? Wrong. Nigga (derived from Nigger) is patently offensive - meaning it has no "good" application. One would never hear George Bush commend Condi Rice with the words, "My Nigga."

But "Jew" is different. "Jew" is simple truth. A noun. Only the intent (context or tone) can be negative. But by building a fence on the inside of the word "Jew", the concepts that fall outside of that fence are, by default, unacceptable in a "civil" society.

Of course the next step is equating criticism of the Government of the State of Israel with Anti-Semitism. So, to avoid being lumped in with the loonies and nazi's, the world shies away from open discourse about the State of Israel.

I will finish (and update) this later. I am not done here, but my attention span has ended. After all, I am the AMERICAN Jew.

[redcake]

Fancy the beat poetry much?


AN American Jew, perhaps...THEE American Jew? Not according to statistics, or the showings in any of the temples I've visited on both coasts. Not by the looks of this board, or of the Israeli Pride parade turnouts.

"the world shies away from open discourse about the State of Israel."


Uh? Say what? Which world are you talking about?

[Gilgamesh]

I am the American Jew.
...

I will finish (and update) this later. I am not done here, but my attention span has ended. After all, I am the AMERICAN Jew.

Welcome aboard, brother!

I hope this forum can update you and inform you of what ever you find interesting.

For me, you are just a Jew, like me, an ethnic Jew. Proud member of the Jewish nation, or nation of Jews. Which in your case happened to be born on the American diaspora.

My general possition is, that your place, and the place of your family is among us, in Israel. No more exile, done with diaspora. Israel, where all Jews are one big family, which means mostly we debate too much and shout at each other alot. Because we care and feel responsible for each other. In this forum, you'll find alot of it.

If you are really interested in Jewish culture on the web, I can recomand you Aish ha'Torah (http://www.aish.com/). I have American relatives in my family who used to be Joe public assimilants like you, who turned on a dime to become Orthodox. Aish ha'Torah is a very big organization, mostly in America but actually throughout the Jewish world. Aish ha'Torah is an eye opener, who teaches Judaism from the very basics and at the eye level. It is also a Zionist organization, which can bind all of one loose ends togather. Give words to everything you already feel at heart. As I said before, this organization transform people, each person in his own way.

I re-read my post and think my post is like that of a sales-man, making a pitch for this organization, but truely speaking, I know that organization saves souls and I know not any better. (for non-Israelis).

For us Israelis, much of the content is grammer school level, as we live and breath much of the stories and idoms and wisdom since always. But there is always good reading and new depth to be explored at the site.

Then again, best thing is to move to Israel. Hard, but it worth it, aspecialy for your future generation.

[Mediocrates]

What is mean by

"current reality"

[Adam Aizen]

Fancy the beat poetry much?

I have no idea, having never read/heard any. I suspect I might, though.

AN American Jew, perhaps...THEE American Jew? Not according to statistics

Yes, thank you for setting me straight on that. For a moment there I thought I was every Jew in America. Luckily, you came along with your snappy widsom and helped me. Thank you, for your valuable input, and the way you were able to ascertain my need for statistical information on the American Diaspora.

"the world shies away from open discourse about the State of Israel."
Uh? Say what? Which world are you talking about?

The world where the ADL will list you as a terrorist for disagreeing with the official story of the 9/11 WTC attacks.

[Adam Aizen]

My general possition is, that your place, and the place of your family is among us, in Israel.

Yes! I agree! I would LOVE to make Aliyah. But I am a HillTop Youth sympathizer, and they don't want me!

Gilgamesh - thank you for your encouraging words! It is good to know that there is hope for me, knowing that your relatives in America were able to become Torah observant. I have been going to Chabad, because where I am there is only Lubavitchers and Temple Beth Israel's.

What do you think of Kahanists? What about www.Masada200.com (http://www.Masada200.com)? Or www.BarryChamish.com (http://www.BarryChamish.com)?

[Adam Aizen]

What is mean by

"current reality"

By current reality, I mean that I do not trust, or particularly like, the current Israeli Government.

I think it is also wrong how the Sephardim are treated in Israel.

My Picture. (http://chadashot.unslaver.com/index.php?itemid=38)

[redcake]

The world where the ADL will list you as a terrorist for disagreeing with the official story of the 9/11 WTC attacks.

So now the ADL's terrorist list somehow represents the worlds opinion of Israel? Who the huh? if anything there's TOO MUCH discourse on Israel. Nobody seems shy to give an opinion on a region and people they don't understand.

Speaking of which, what do you know about Israeli Sephardim? Rough times aside, they're hardly Israel's oppressed undertrodden.

[Gilgamesh]

Yes! I agree! I would LOVE to make Aliyah. But I am a HillTop Youth sympathizer, and they don't want me! Nonsense :), I support the hilltop youth myself. A Jew needs a specialy contengeous disease, high rank in the mafia or a golden membership in the KGB to be denied citizenship in Israel. I believe you are neither.

Gilgamesh - thank you for your encouraging words! My plessure!

What do you think of Kahanists? What about www.Masada200.com (http://www.Masada200.com)? Or www.BarryChamish.com (http://www.BarryChamish.com)?
I am familiar with these sites, and visit them from time to time. As for the Kahanists, although I believe they are right at their core, I am very suspicious of any zealotry or extreme attitude. I think the Kahanists are extremists. Any extremism is never a sign of health. Things must be done in a gentle and civil yet firm fasion. No fiery exaguration or extravegations needed. For what we have learned from our history and the failur of the great rebalion against the Romans is that zealotry is wrong, even if it's meaning and objectives are true.

I wish the JDL and the Kahanists would keep up the good work against neo- nazis, white superamacists and communists and clear the stage of the conflict to other right wing organizations.

[Ophra]

Yes! I agree! I would LOVE to make Aliyah. But I am a HillTop Youth sympathizer, and they don't want me!

Gilgamesh - thank you for your encouraging words! It is good to know that there is hope for me, knowing that your relatives in America were able to become Torah observant. I have been going to Chabad, because where I am there is only Lubavitchers and Temple Beth Israel's.

What do you think of Kahanists? What about www.Masada200.com (http://www.Masada200.com)? Or www.BarryChamish.com (http://www.BarryChamish.com)?

You got that right !! .... we don't want you .

We are in the process of kicking you guys out.... hate for you to waste your time ;)

[Ophra]

By current reality, I mean that I do not trust, or particularly like, the current Israeli Government.

I think it is also wrong how the Sephardim are treated in Israel.

My Picture. (http://chadashot.unslaver.com/index.php?itemid=38)

Well boo hoo hoo .... since when did any of your crowd ever trust or like any Israeli Government ???
Perhaps you would like to shoot Sharon in the back like you did with another old man ?????

The Sephardim are treated like any other in Israel ... that includes our Israeli Arabs too .
Shame on us that the HillTop Youth are treated like normal people to .... hopefully that is about to change ;)

[Mediocrates]

You're sounding a little paranoid today.

[Ophra]

You're sounding a little paranoid today.

Not paranoid Medio.... disgusted more like . These people are racist haters...make me want to puke !!!

[MGB8]

Barry Chamish is a nutjob. Now, even a blind squirrel does find a nut now and then...but, I wouldn't bet on it. His anti-Ashkenazi agenda is a little silly.

Not that there aren't problems, and they are better today than before, but I still here reports of some big group level disparities, but its better not to exagerate.

[Gilgamesh]

Not paranoid Medio.... disgusted more like . These people are racist haters...make me want to puke !!!
You already proved on other occasions you don't know the difference between a racist and a pile of horse manure. So, no one of sane mind can take your opinion seriously about anything.

Yom Tov!

[Ophra]

You already proved on other occasions you don't know the difference between a racist and a pile of horse manure. So, no one of sane mind can take your opinion seriously about anything.

Yom Tov!

There is no defense for his and your kind Gilgamesh..... none !!
So abuse me now .... shoot the messenger when you don't like the message .... you folks sure have the experience ;) ..although we all know you prefer to shoot the elderly... especially in the back .

[nuttie]

You already proved on other occasions you don't know the difference between a racist and a pile of horse manure.[/i]I'm afraid I myself suffer from the same lack of distinction. I certainly don't know the difference between a racist and a pile of horse manure, except that the latter is beneficial in the garden.

[Gilgamesh]

There is no defense for his and your kind Gilgamesh..... none !!
So abuse me now .... shoot the messenger when you don't like the message .... you folks sure have the experience ;) ..although we all know you prefer to shoot the elderly... especially in the back .
You over estimate yourself, thinking you worth my energy. You don't.
I don't really care what you think. Go bug somebody else with your "feel-good-extrem-left" stupid ideas, and leave us alone.

Maybe if you'll say Ki-Bushshsh seven times in a row, you'll convince yourself you're smart. I am not impressed with your "wisdom". Sorry, I don't feel like playing in your game.

[MGB8]

oy vey.

Jews.

[minusthejihad]

Jews.

Please don't say that word. You don't want to offend Ophra.

This Adam guy needs to chill. I am the American Jew too, though much more relaxed.

[Ophra]

You over estimate yourself, thinking you worth my energy. You don't.
I don't really care what you think. Go bug somebody else with your "feel-good-extrem-left" stupid ideas, and leave us alone.

Maybe if you'll say Ki-Bushshsh seven times and a row, you'll convince yourself you're smart. Sorry, I don't feel like playing in your game. I am not impressed by your lack of inteligence.

He is right about one thing Gilgamesh..... he is " the American Jew " ... very much the American Jew .... thing is ..us Israeli Jews just don't want anymore religious racist extremists from foreign places ... we have enough already... and you are a great example of them .

BTW ... I'm central moderate... far far away from the extreme left.... not that you care.... your lot even call Sharon a Leftist :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ophra]

Please don't say that word. You don't want to offend Ophra.

This Adam guy needs to chill. I am the American Jew too, though much more relaxed.

Your Russian.... their worse . They bring their hatred of Muslims from their past lives in Russia and put it all on our Muslims.

[Gilgamesh]

He is right about one thing Gilgamesh..... he is " the American Jew " ... very much the American Jew .... thing is ..us Israeli Jews just don't want anymore religious racist extremists from foreign places ... we have enough already... and you are a great example of them .

BTW ... I'm central moderate... far far away from the extreme left.... not that you care.... your lot even call Sharon a Leftist :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't like ex-communist kibbutznicks... do I have a choise?

This is the problem with you leftists, I are totally in love with yourself, and hate anybody who doesn't share your self adore-ment. Sorry lady, but you're nuts!!

I am Israeli too, you know. I also serve in the army, and so does everbody in my family. When you say "we Israelis" you sure don't speak in my name.

[Gilgamesh]

Your Russian.... their worse . They bring their hatred of Muslims from their past lives in Russia and put it all on our Muslims.
Go to Syria already and leave us be!
Is there some kind of a Jew you DON'T hate? Join Hammas lady, they love your opinion there.

[Zlatorog]

745 - Karantania loses its independence and becomes a part of the semifeudal Frankish empire, later under the rule of king Charlemagne (742-814, reigned 771-814) due to pressing danger of Avar tribes from the east.

803 - Christian Church divides Slovene territory along the Drava river between the Salzburg (Austria) archdiocese and the Patriarchate of Aquileia (Italy).

1335 - The Duchy of Carinthia is bestowed by Louis the Bavarian on the dukes of Austria. We completely lost independence that way until 1414. Before that (14 century) the Jews that fled from Italy converted a few, but were not persecuted.

In 1461 Ljubljana became the seat of the 'Austrian' diocese. Our last nobleman wanted a ransom from Jews to settle in Carniola, but they returned to Italy and could not settle again, because the German aristocracy did not allow anybody comming, going, selling this and that, doing this and that without their permission. Our last one was killed by the Turks.

The Habsburgs allowed Jews to come only to those places that did not border the Ottoman Empire.

1550 - The first book in Slovene is printed. Primož Trubar's primer entitled Abecedarium and Catechism.

1584 - The Bible is translated into Slovene by Jurij Dalmatin.

This was a half-German herresy, a non latin thing and the protestants were persecuted. That means that the 'Austrians' and Slovenes did nothing about it. Later on, when the Germans were rulers of our towns, the protestant church was for the Germans and ours was again looking for other ways. I'm pointing this out because some Muslim, Orthodox... believe that we were protestant for centuries and then let the Vatican take over. It's not as simple as that.

Napoleon occupied Ljubljana in 1809 which became a capital of Illyrian Provinces. New laws and conducts came by the French administration to the countryside also, and the foreign merchants, particularly Frenchmen, Italian, Jews, were allowed to come. We were allowed to learn Slovene for the first time, for less than four years though.

Abraham Heimann (Heymann) was born in Memmelsdorf Bavaria. He organised supplies for the French army from Toulon to Vienna. His friend, a commander of the French police proposed to the Ljubljana Governor if he could stay here and he made a decision to settle. Abraham came to town office with his nephew Simon, on 30th November 1809. Abraham's brother Moses joined them in the beggining of the next year. The town aristocracy opposed their activity at once. Heimann requested help of the French goverment. Only with an intervention of Fargues, a commissary, he could rent a building in the then Spittal Street 268 (today's current Mačkova ul.). In March 1810 he opened trade there (manufacture) and an exchange office. The French issued permission for the settlement in May. In this year they bought that house for 19.200 goldinar, registered on Moses in 1818.

Governor Marmont invalidated all laws against Jews at the end of that year.

Newly occured Illyrian state had financial problems. A lot of Austrian paper money (Bancozettel) was in circulation, it's nominal value was falling fast. In 1810 it fell so low that if was ordered to be abolished on 1 January 1811. That year Austria bankrupted.

All three exchange offices in Ljubljana collected the same provision, 3%.

Of 1813 the Illirian and the countryside fell under Austria again. In August
1814 it was issued that the Jewish family must leave and sell the real estate. Moses complained, quoting the 17th paragraph of Parisian peace convention: residents of France had a six-year period to leave. The Austrian Governor then permitted them to stay until 1st January 1815. His complaint was sent to central committee in Vienna. Bureaucratic procedures draged on, the Governor allowed the family to stay until there's an official reply from Vienna. In October 1815 Abraham abandoned his businesses and returned to Germany, then he settled in Trieste that same year, Moses followed. They opened a shop there.

Nephew Simon tried to take over the management of the shop in Ljubljana. He picked Israel Heiman as his new assistant. Central Court Committee in Vienna in December of 1817 notified the Governor, that Heimann's appeal is solved positively, the relatives of Heimann family were now legally allowed to stay. It was forbidden however, that anyone else would come. The City Council was against the Vienna decision and they notified the Heimann family in September 1818.

In 1820 it was decided that the Heimann family spends too much time in Trieste and that all his shop assistants must leave. They were niece Brendel, nephew Emanuel and David, assistant Jakob Kohn Mayer, Moses Rosenberg, Levi Nayman. Moses complained to Vienna again and succeded.

In 1821 Ljubljana was a centre of diplomatic activity. A congress of all
European Monarchs was held here. Roschild as well, bothered noone. Heimann's exchange office gained importance because of all the diplomats and others who attended the congress. In September 1821 he got a decree from Vienna however, that he must have no other 'immigrants'. The most prominent merchants demanded he must close his shop, which he did, but complained to Vienna again and succeeded again.

In 1823 Simon Heimann got married and his daughter was born. That meant two more Jews, and the complaint about it that was sent to Vienna was overruled. Five Jews were working in that store, one from Budapest, one from Bratislava, one from Bavaria. The city rulers decided that the family members however were residents of Trieste, which was again overruled in Vienna.

In 1828 Moses wanted to give the store to Simon. It wasn't possible, so in 1838 Moses returned the trade permit and gave his store to his son Friderik, and then the city stalled to issue this trade permit. It was approved only after the intervention of the Governor. The city complained to Vienna, but were unsuccessful. Then Friderik opened his store.

From Simon's letter to the Emperor in Vienna it is evident what his family had done for the population here. He contributed 50 goldinars for the poor annualy, he was employing prisoners, for which he got an acknowledgement of the prison administration, for the construction of Vienna - Trieste Railway he ensured over a million goldinars, for some other building he made plans and contributed 10.000 goldinars, for the clergy he bought state papers in Vienna and Graz, his wife was active in a group that took care of some orpganage.

After living here for 30 years he asked to settle permanately. The city council was against it, saying that Moses Heimann and his employees were issued just one permit that was an exception, for them only. The governor and the police intervened saying that his merchandise was always sold for the same price. In may 1842 he was allowed to stay.

His daughter died in 1849. He moved to Vienna and stayed with Friderik Heimann there. He gave his shop to Alexander Schneider, his assistant. Alexander converted to protestantism to officially get the trade permit. In 1856 he finally took over Heimann's store that was now called Schneider and Schigon.

Then all the employees converted to Roman catholic which was Slovene friendly, Jakob Kohn Mayer, who managed to open his own shop in 1834 included. Later he was a banker, Samuel Kohn, Levi Fleischmann, Regina Seitnbach had similar activities. Since then over a thousand Jews came.

We did the same mistake as the Jews of Vienna, we supported Franz Josef. The Croats didn't. But we had no allies, also, what would the Jews of Vienna do, where would they go? Franz Josef then gave more authority to antisemitic nationalists, who also hated us, for them we were the tschuschen. Our church had nothing to do with the German or the Croat one. When our priests were persecuted in the other part that fell officially under Italy in 1922, our bihops were sacked in Trieste and Gorizia. Croatia was an enemy in the Monarchy, the Monarchy was our last hope.

The Jews in Croatia helped the 'zionists' flee. Maček in Zagreb was appointed when the Belgrade dictatorship changed, and he refused to cooperate with the Nazis when they invaded, that's why he was sent to Jasenovac. Who was a Jew and who was not, a convert or whatever - the NDH lost all it's littoral and other regions because of Italy. Pavelic was born in Bosnia. He made Bosnia part of the NDH. Before all of this happened, the Ustasha had less than 2% of support there.

The Serbs were slaughtered mainly because of the Nazis. That's why they cooperated with the Fascists, even though the Fascists massacred the population in the south. Then they had a civil war with Tito.

In some parts the Fascists did not surrender in 43, let's say Infantry Division Zara, had some units located at Sibenik, Split, Trogir and a garrison force at Knin - Knin the Ustasha territory. Then on 9 sept 43 the local 107 battalion CCNN " Francesco Rismondi " joined the Germans and later was transferred to Italian mainland and become after re-organisation the GNR Battalion " Venezia Giulia " which fought against partisans of the so called Free- Republic of Ossola.

In Slovenia the German church did not permit the 'forced slovenization' of the Germans when the Habsburg empire fell apart. When the Germanization returned in 1941, with a genocidal approach this time, people fled en masse to Ljubljana. All or priests were killed, teachers... sent to Serbia.

Bishop Rožman who was a refugee from Carinthia sought support in the Vatican for the first time, that's why he didn't tell the Italians 'piss off and I die'.

http://www.drustvo-ski.si/en/stanovnik01.pdf

This link is wrong though. Because the hostage Home Guard did not want to swear to Hitler, Germans were killed in concentration camps.

[Mediocrates]

He is right about one thing Gilgamesh..... he is " the American Jew " ... very much the American Jew .... thing is ..us Israeli Jews just don't want anymore religious racist extremists from foreign places ... we have enough already... and you are a great example of them .

BTW ... I'm central moderate... far far away from the extreme left.... not that you care.... your lot even call Sharon a Leftist :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Odd - I never thought of my former pediatrician who retired to T.A. years ago a nutcase. Goes to show ya

[minusthejihad]

Your Russian.... their worse . They bring their hatred of Muslims from their past lives in Russia and put it all on our Muslims.

You really are ignorant, and at your age you should be ashamed.

First off, I am a Russian Jew, not a Russian. If you don't know the difference, than you are dumber than we thought.

Lastly, we came from Baku, Azerbaijan. Maybe you don't know this, but Azerbaijanis are mostly Muslim and treated the Jews in Baku very well compared to other Muslims. The way they treated Armenians is very different story of course.

Your generalizations and assumptions reinforce your ignorance and stupidity. Thanks.

[Mediocrates]

Your Russian.... their worse . They bring their hatred of Muslims from their past lives in Russia and put it all on our Muslims.


I'l trade ya some Mexicans for them. Good?

[Mediocrates]

Adam why did you paste your own blog entry here? Wouldn't it been better to advertise your blog and post a link?

[Ophra]

I don't like ex-communist kibbutznicks... do I have a choise?

This is the problem with you leftists, I are totally in love with yourself, and hate anybody who doesn't share your self adore-ment. Sorry lady, but you're nuts!!

I am Israeli too, you know. I also serve in the army, and so does everbody in my family. When you say "we Israelis" you sure don't speak in my name.

LMAO ... communist kibbutznicks :D ... that the best you can do ?????

My family has been here since late 1800's Gilgamesh... we are not going anywhere .... can't say the same for the Hilltop Youth now ... can yah ??

" When you say "we Israelis" you sure don't speak in my name " ... DITTO !!

[Ophra]

Odd - I never thought of my former pediatrician who retired to T.A. years ago a nutcase. Goes to show ya

Well if he is in Tel Aviv that explains it ;)

[Ophra]

You really are ignorant, and at your age you should be ashamed.

First off, I am a Russian Jew, not a Russian. If you don't know the difference, than you are dumber than we thought.

Lastly, we came from Baku, Azerbaijan. Maybe you don't know this, but Azerbaijanis are mostly Muslim and treated the Jews in Baku very well compared to other Muslims. The way they treated Armenians is very different story of course.

Your generalizations and assumptions reinforce your ignorance and stupidity. Thanks.

There is no difference.
Your welcome.

[minusthejihad]

There is no difference.
Your welcome.

Boy, you really are bright. And a hypocrite to boot. Calling people racist while espousing your own racism. It's really a wonder you learned how to spell. At least it shows the level of education of a common communist kibbutznik and the relative ease of getting knocked up 4 times. Excpet I think your brains may have been attached to the placenta you squeezed out.

[KettleWhistle]

I was out and about Beverly Hills the other day, and saw some Israeli woman train her 2-3 year old to b!tch-slap women. She'd blow a buble-gum bubble and have her kid smack her across the face to pop it. I just couldn't resist and asked her if she was related to someone named "Ophra." She said that she wasn't. Must've been a neighbor, not a relative...

[Ophra]

Boy, you really are bright. And a hypocrite to boot. Calling people racist while espousing your own racism. It's really a wonder you learned how to spell. At least it shows the level of education of a common communist kibbutznik and the relative ease of getting knocked up 4 times. Excpet I think your brains may have been attached to the placenta you squeezed out.

5 times .

What racism?..... a Russian is a Russian .. what difference does his religion change that ???

[Ophra]

I was out and about Beverly Hills the other day, and saw some Israeli woman train her 2-3 year old to b!tch-slap women. She'd blow a buble-gum bubble and have her kid smack her across the face to pop it. I just couldn't resist and asked her if she was related to someone named "Ophra." She said that she wasn't. Must've been a neighbor, not a relative...

Sorry... can't see yah ... I put you on ignore :D

[minusthejihad]

What racism?..... a Russian is a Russian .. what difference does his religion change that ???

It has been explained to you many times. If you are to dumb, immature, or mentally challenged to understand/comprehend this, that's your problem, not ours. But it sure is good to see the irony of your comments, please keep them coming for all of our visitors to see that, even in Israel, not everyone has a brain.

[Mediocrates]

Feel the Luuuuuuuv (http://www.muzika.hr/images/Rubrika_21/20041206_barry_white09.jpg)

[Emunah]

Fancy the beat poetry much?


AN American Jew, perhaps...THEE American Jew? Not according to statistics, or the showings in any of the temples I've visited on both coasts. Not by the looks of this board, or of the Israeli Pride parade turnouts.

"the world shies away from open discourse about the State of Israel."


Uh? Say what? Which world are you talking about?

Not bad beat poetry. Hey, it's good to have Jewish beat poetry isn't it?

However, I have to take issue with the "world shies away from open discourse about the State of Israel"....ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? It seems they rarely shut up about it at all. Everyplace I post, where someone knows I'm Jewish, you would think the floodgates opened up and every nut in the world was set loose...and the worst part of it, is that it's never people who actually have an up close and personal view (like an Arab that lives there, or a Druze that was hurt by something, or a Lebanese who was in the war) OH NO...it's the Chomsky Leftist in the USA, Canada and Europe that have NEVER stepped a foot near the place that want to discuss with me, personally, every thing about the State of Israel....as if I were the Israeli government, as if I were personally responsible for every single pick-pocket that happened in Haifa last year, as if I should answer for the recent wave of street crime, and as if I should answer for what every single Israeli soldier EVER did in history! What I want to know is how can any American Jew get away from these people!!!!

[KettleWhistle]

What I want to know is how can any American Jew get away from these people!!!!

I tend to think that the American Jew needs to make these people be concerned with how to get away from the Louisville Slugger.

[redcake]

I think I'd rather be Hank Greenberg myself.

[Emunah]

How have you been redcake? I haven't talked to you in a while. I hope all is well with you and yours.

But, yes...a good baseball bat would be nice...of course the internet would be filled to overflowing with the whole affair in ten minutes, and then some group of Jewish school children would be attacked in protest along with a nice little nazi sign on the local Jewish headstones. /rant :D :D

[Gilgamesh]

What I want to know is how can any American Jew get away from these people!!!! Simple, move to Israel, post in this forum or Israeli hebrew forums only. That's all.

My parents were on vecation in Europe, and even in the middle of the street, when ever somebody picked up they are Israeli, they had something to say about our politics.... fools...

First thing is: let them know their real proportions: "We don't care about your opinions" "You know ziltch" (or just ignore).
Second: Israel is independent state, if some israeli breaks the law (it happence in Israel too), Israeli courts judge the criminal, not stupid Eurotrash in the street.
Thired: Jews have human rights too! We have a human rights for self detemination, human right of self sovereignity, and human right of self defense.
Fourth: We know better what good for us, full surrender or accepting Christ ain't a real solution to anything.

[redcake]

Yeah, the Jews with .22's or baseball bats in this case doesn't work in the long run. One of the great criticisms of Israel is it's percieved strength. Too many people are unsettled by Jews of strength, and for all the talk of "powerful Jews", anything that actually resembles true power threatens them to the point where they're willing to assume the roll of standing behind a cause they could hardly care about in the first place. So Kahane and others tried to spark a Jewish pride movement in the US... and the result? Nobody wants to be Jewish anymore....and if they do, they bring a disclaimer saying "I'm a such and such type of Jew, I'm compartmentalized, and the only way I'll stand up and say I'm a Jew is by prefacing it with an explanation of my Jewish identity, or lack of it". The real "American Jew" is probably a Budhhist nutcake by now.


(Things are good Emunah, thanks for asking. Hope the same for you!)

[Adam Aizen]

It may add to the perspective of those kind enough to comment, to carry with them the knowledge that "American Jew" was not autobiographical. I am not married, my house is entirely Kosher all year, and I do realize that there is plenty of discussion about Israel.

Also, never have I EVER eaten Taco Bell.

[redcake]

"American Jew" was not autobiographical.

Either way it was ridiculous and hardly representative of anything but your amature attempt at a deep statement.

What's all this venom geared towards Taco Bell anyway!?

[Adam Aizen]

What's all this venom geared towards Taco Bell anyway!?

What's all this venom geared towards me anyway?

it was... your amature attempt at a deep statement.

And that was yours. Looks like we're even.

I'm flattered that you considered it important enough to spend time posting about it. If you really like it, please continue to reply. Thanks, redcake.

[KettleWhistle]

I thought it was pretty well-put. I don't agree with all the religious emphasis, since we are a nation first and foremost, but other than that it's ok.

As a side note, Del Taco's way way better than Taco Bell, but neither's anywhere close to Taco Cabana (that's a small Tex-Mex fast food chain in Texas.)

[redcake]

Uh, that's what people do here. We post and respond. Some of us are here because it feeds our ego...or we want to promote our website.... and others just enjoy an outlet for "the discourse".

[frizzer1]

oy vey.

Jews.

Yep..that sums it up neatly.You know,if it weren't for the arabs and the various anti-semites in the diaspora, we jews would probably tear each other to pieces.
Anyone who dropped into this forum and read this thread would never believe that we all love Israel and are deeply concerned for her safety.
Now, as to that American jew post,it does represent some american (canadian,british etc) jews but most jews I know here are nothing like that. And I include orthodox,conservative and reform jews among my friends and in my assessment of them.
Thank you for your time.Now you can all get back to your spitting contests.

[Ophra]

Yep..that sums it up neatly.You know,if it weren't for the arabs and the various anti-semites in the diaspora, we jews would probably tear each other to pieces.
Anyone who dropped into this forum and read this thread would never believe that we all love Israel and are deeply concerned for her safety.
Now, as to that American jew post,it does represent some american (canadian,british etc) jews but most jews I know here are nothing like that. And I include orthodox,conservative and reform jews among my friends and in my assessment of them.
Thank you for your time.Now you can all get back to your spitting contests.

That's nice frizzer1..... but the reality we live in is nothing like yours... nothing at all like yours.

Do you have any idea what the Hilltop Youth are ???????????

Here .... WAKE UP !!! : .............

Tuesday, November 30, 2004

We eliminated Rabin. We will eliminate Sharon.

The hilltop youth are invading Gaza.

The consequences of Sharon's pullout from this arid, Hamas-infested strip of sand dunes and smashed concrete may be huge or minimal, but no one can tell the full extent of it just yet. The migration of the hilltop youth from their shanty settlements on remote West Bank mountaintops into Gaza may signal the opening of a violent campaign directed at the Jewish state. When they meet militant Gaza Messianists, two ends of the Zionist avant garde ally.

The hilltop youth have long been a pest on the West Bank, not just for Palestinian residents but for the Israeli army and police too. They're a peculiar phenomena, a kink in the Zionist hardline: Kabalah-versed school dropouts, accurate marksmen with a taste for marijuana, who construct mountainside shelters out of rusting metal and empty containers, and raid Palestinian orchards to steel oranges and olives and cut down trees.

They are right of the right wing, associated with Kahanism, a virulantly racist and theocratic movement that calls for the expulsion of all Arabs from present-day Israel, Gaza, the West Bank and Jordinian territory on the East Bank of the Jordan river. Kahanists are not allowed to participate in legal Israeli politics. Their West Bank settlements are outlawed, not just by the international community, but by Sharon's government too.

They further ally with the Yesha Rabbis and Rabbi Avraham Shapira who, earlier this year, cited halakhic law to forbid Israeli Defence Force (IDF) soldiers from evacuating the settlement of Gush Katif. As furious rhetoric flew back and forth between the Rabbis and the Israeli Cabinet the gulf between state and religious Zionism was loudly exposed. Settler calls to oust Sharon, once their icon and advocate, made the final point rather well.

To West Bank and Gaza Kahanists and Messianists, Sharon is the ultimate "traitor": their new "dictator." The language is deliberately incendiary: recently, a senior leader of the Orthodox kibbutz movement, Amnon Shapira, compared Sharon's Gaza disengagement plan to the Nazi holocaust. Put simply, the hardcore relgious right think he should be shot. They actively want Sharon assassinated.

This week, two 16-yr old girls were arrested in the West Bank village of Sinjil, charged with stealing olives from a Palestinian grove. As the arresting officer scanned one of their mobile phones (apparently trying to find the phone number of her parents) he discovered a text message which read, "We eliminated Rabin. We will eliminate Sharon." When asked about the message, she said that yes, it did reflect her personal opinion, but she refused to admit involvement in organised incitement. (The origin of the term "incitement" in this context goes back to the assassination of Rabin in 1994, when the extreme right was accused of "inciting" the assassination. The term made an ominous reappearence in 2002, and again this year, to describe extreme-right anti-Sharon agitation).

Sharon's disengagement plan has yet to be enforced: the hilltop youth's invasion is preparative, even pre-emptive. They are taking up tentative positions in Gaza, occupying abandoned Palestinian homes in IDF-controlled Muasi. Though they will play a minor, if colourful, role in any inter-Israeli conflagration, as the advance guard of religious Zionism they represent a significant element in its militant iconography. To their co-zealots, the hilltop youth are heroes.

On the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, the kids are not alright. They're completely crazy.

*************************

God help us all !!!

[redcake]

Ophra, what's the source of that piece? Op-ed or not, it's nice to know.

The Hilltop Youth aren't much to worry about. They're just one of a billion fringe elements in this picture. The Kahanist have never been very effective. Even when their message is right on, they figure out a way to scare away most of their supportors. Here in the States the JDL would just ride around in trucks with guns on the high holidays, and then you would never see them again for 12 more months. Rabin's murder was an inside job, so what else have they done except defend some wood beams of a structure that had already been removed, and possibly shot up a mosque ? If Meir Kahane was still alive today, Kahane Chai would be calling him a traitor and calling for his death too.

[frizzer1]

First of all the original "american jew" post had nothing to do with the hilltop youth. And for heaven's sake do you ever read the things you've been posting on this forum?

,Now,we all woke up from our respective slumbers when Rabin was murdered.And the divisions within our community were finally exposed for all to see.Even at the small shul which I attend,while about half were shocked and appalled,the other half were not upset that Rabin had died,only that an israeli had killed him.
That motsei shabbat was difficult for all of us and there wasn't much conversation.But we all remained civil and treated each other with respect even though we had completely different outlooks.
These days we discuss our differences and again we do it with respect and civility.
If you feel the need for name calling and insults, if that satisfies some need of yours, go to it.
As far as I'm concerned there are more productive ways of expressing differences of opinion.



That's nice frizzer1..... but the reality we live in is nothing like yours... nothing at all like yours.

Do you have any idea what the Hilltop Youth are ???????????

Here .... WAKE UP !!! : .............

Tuesday, November 30, 2004

We eliminated Rabin. We will eliminate Sharon.

The hilltop youth are invading Gaza.

The consequences of Sharon's pullout from this arid, Hamas-infested strip of sand dunes and smashed concrete may be huge or minimal, but no one can tell the full extent of it just yet. The migration of the hilltop youth from their shanty settlements on remote West Bank mountaintops into Gaza may signal the opening of a violent campaign directed at the Jewish state. When they meet militant Gaza Messianists, two ends of the Zionist avant garde ally.

The hilltop youth have long been a pest on the West Bank, not just for Palestinian residents but for the Israeli army and police too. They're a peculiar phenomena, a kink in the Zionist hardline: Kabalah-versed school dropouts, accurate marksmen with a taste for marijuana, who construct mountainside shelters out of rusting metal and empty containers, and raid Palestinian orchards to steel oranges and olives and cut down trees.

They are right of the right wing, associated with Kahanism, a virulantly racist and theocratic movement that calls for the expulsion of all Arabs from present-day Israel, Gaza, the West Bank and Jordinian territory on the East Bank of the Jordan river. Kahanists are not allowed to participate in legal Israeli politics. Their West Bank settlements are outlawed, not just by the international community, but by Sharon's government too.

They further ally with the Yesha Rabbis and Rabbi Avraham Shapira who, earlier this year, cited halakhic law to forbid Israeli Defence Force (IDF) soldiers from evacuating the settlement of Gush Katif. As furious rhetoric flew back and forth between the Rabbis and the Israeli Cabinet the gulf between state and religious Zionism was loudly exposed. Settler calls to oust Sharon, once their icon and advocate, made the final point rather well.

To West Bank and Gaza Kahanists and Messianists, Sharon is the ultimate "traitor": their new "dictator." The language is deliberately incendiary: recently, a senior leader of the Orthodox kibbutz movement, Amnon Shapira, compared Sharon's Gaza disengagement plan to the Nazi holocaust. Put simply, the hardcore relgious right think he should be shot. They actively want Sharon assassinated.

This week, two 16-yr old girls were arrested in the West Bank village of Sinjil, charged with stealing olives from a Palestinian grove. As the arresting officer scanned one of their mobile phones (apparently trying to find the phone number of her parents) he discovered a text message which read, "We eliminated Rabin. We will eliminate Sharon." When asked about the message, she said that yes, it did reflect her personal opinion, but she refused to admit involvement in organised incitement. (The origin of the term "incitement" in this context goes back to the assassination of Rabin in 1994, when the extreme right was accused of "inciting" the assassination. The term made an ominous reappearence in 2002, and again this year, to describe extreme-right anti-Sharon agitation).

Sharon's disengagement plan has yet to be enforced: the hilltop youth's invasion is preparative, even pre-emptive. They are taking up tentative positions in Gaza, occupying abandoned Palestinian homes in IDF-controlled Muasi. Though they will play a minor, if colourful, role in any inter-Israeli conflagration, as the advance guard of religious Zionism they represent a significant element in its militant iconography. To their co-zealots, the hilltop youth are heroes.

On the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, the kids are not alright. They're completely crazy.

*************************

God help us all !!!