arabah

[rgonce]

The current move to put a wall around the Palestinians and to quarantine them is not efficient or in the best interest of any of the concerned parties. Creating economic opportunity in Jordan that will encourage the employment of Palestinians would be a better solution. It also is a reflection of the command of Jesus
to love our enemies.

There is a plan for developing the Arabah in Jordan as well as the southern deserts of Israel through a massive desalination and power generation project. This would open opportunities for Palestinians to move out of the refugee camps in several countries and to be settled in an area outside of Israel's borders but connected with the Palestinian areas in Israel by limited access transportation corridors.

If you are interested in knowing more about the possibilities, contact me.

[Iori Yagami]

Originally posted by rgonce

It also is a reflection of the command of Jesus
to love our enemies.

I`m sorry dude, I`m jewish, I don`t quite follow Jesus` sayings...
Building a fence arround the pally territorries would do good to Israel, so there you go, here`s a party that enjoys the deal. Let the pallies cook inside their own juice of corrupt government and fascistic regime for a few years, and they will understand their own mistake.
What you are offering byt he way is impractical, Jordan will never let pallies immigrate there. They have their own problems with the pallies.

[rgonce]

Jesus is Jeshua of Nazareth, the most famous of all of Israel's rabbis. If you do not know him, it is unfortunate for you.

I understand your desire to punish the Palestinians, but you must give them some way out or there will never be a solution. You cannot punish people into changing their convictions.

Jordan will accept a territory open to Palestinian settlement if it is in their interest.

Have you heard of the Ezekiel Project? Get a bible and read Ezekiel 47:1-12

[Iori Yagami]

Originally posted by rgonce
Jesus is Jeshua of Nazareth, the most famous of all of Israel's rabbis. If you do not know him, it is unfortunate for you.


Oh, I do know about Jesus, probably more than the average christian knows. And Jesus was many things, but he was no rabbi.

[elke]

Originally posted by rgonce
The current move to put a wall around the Palestinians and to quarantine them is not efficient or in the best interest of any of the concerned parties. Creating economic opportunity in Jordan that will encourage the employment of Palestinians would be a better solution. It also is a reflection of the command of Jesus
to love our enemies.

There is a plan for developing the Arabah in Jordan as well as the southern deserts of Israel through a massive desalination and power generation project. This would open opportunities for Palestinians to move out of the refugee camps in several countries and to be settled in an area outside of Israel's borders but connected with the Palestinian areas in Israel by limited access transportation corridors.

If you are interested in knowing more about the possibilities, contact me.

Would that the Christians followed the teachings of Jesus, rather than just demand that others do so.

However, the employment opportunities for the Palestinians in Jordan and other countries sound intriguing... How far along, how well funded, and who manages the initiatives you are talking about?

[rgonce]

Dr. Dan Zaslavsky of Technion is working on Energy Towers, trying to raise $100 million more for the demonstration unit.

Formerly he was project director for the Dead-Med. I have been in correspondence with him since 1993.

He gave up on the Dead-Med project as impractical because of the small size as then planned, and because of economic and environmental objections.

Israel and Jordan agreed in the treaty of 1994 to continue joint work to develop the Dead Sea potential.

The Ezekiel Project is a vision of combining Dead-Med and Energy Towers, or other large scale desalination scheme, since all water used for desalination and irrigation in the Dead Sea valley would pass through the Dead-Med hydroelectric project. This massive desalination increases the potential size of the Dead-Med hydroelectric project exponentially.

There is a way to transport the water ecconomically without spoiling the Dead Sea.

Presently there is no activity that I know of toward the progress of the project. I am trying to increase awareness and develop support among the leaders of Israel, Jordan, and USA.

[rgonce]

Jeshua of Nazareth was called rabbi by his associates. He was teaching in the temple when he was twelve years of age.

He was welcomed into Jerusalem as Messiah in AD 30.

What makes a rabbi a rabbi?

I am speaking in the common sense of teacher, not ordained Rabbi.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by rgonce
Jesus is Jeshua of Nazareth, the most famous of all of Israel's rabbis. If you do not know him, it is unfortunate for you.





LOL You're funny!

[rgonce]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM



LOL You're funny!



I wonder what you find funny?

Jesus was born in Nazareth, promised birthplace of Messiah.

Jesus is not only Israel's, but the world's most famous teacher.

Why is it not unfortunate when one does not know the world's greatest teacher?

But please look at Ezekiel 47:1-12 (English Bible) and tell me what you think of Ezekiel's vision.

[elke]

Originally posted by rgonce
I wonder what you find funny?

Jesus was born in Nazareth, promised birthplace of Messiah.

Jesus is not only Israel's, but the world's most famous teacher.

Why is it not unfortunate when one does not know the world's greatest teacher?

But please look at Ezekiel 47:1-12 (English Bible) and tell me what you think of Ezekiel's vision.

I may be overstepping my bounds here, but here it goes:

This is a forum on the State of Israel. The above comments are religious in nature, and are therefore outside of the scope of this forum, or at least this topic.

For myself, I would love to hear more about the initiatives that attempt to resolve specific empirical problems of the Palestinian unemployment, violence, etc. Such help from all communities, including the Christians, is highly appreciated.

[Iori Yagami]

Originally posted by rgonce

I am speaking in the common sense of teacher, not ordained Rabbi.
So call him a teacher, not a Rabbi. There`s quite a difference between the both.

[rgonce]

Originally posted by elke


I may be overstepping my bounds here, but here it goes:

This is a forum on the State of Israel. The above comments are religious in nature, and are therefore outside of the scope of this forum, or at least this topic.

For myself, I would love to hear more about the initiatives that attempt to resolve specific empirical problems of the Palestinian unemployment, violence, etc. Such help from all communities, including the Christians, is highly appreciated.


EZEKIEL AND THE DEAD-MED PROJECT


The Dead-Med project has been dreamed of in Israel for more than one hundred years. It neared reality in the 1980’s as a joint project of Jordan and Israel. Plans for the project were abandoned because of political, environmental, and economic concerns. However, the 1994 treaty between Israel and Jordan specified that they would continue to work on joint development of the Dead Sea potential. Ezekiel’s vision recorded 2565 years ago gives focus to the possibilities of the modern project.

Ezekiel Project is an extension of the Dead-Med project, based in part on the vision of Ezekiel recorded in chapter 47, verses one through twelve, of the English Bible. It is a vision of massive hydroelectric, fish culture, desalination, and irrigation projects that would utilize the 1460+ ft difference in elevation between the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea to produce electric energy. Water from the Mediterranean would travel from the Ashdod seaport through a transition channel into two ten-meter diameter bored tunnels leading to a hydroelectric station inside the mountain east of Jerusalem. Tail water from the generation turbines would flow by tunnels and open channel into the north end of the Dead Sea. The water would then be diverted down the west edge of the Dead Sea, separated from the water of the Dead Sea by the Dead Sea Highway, a limited access highway built on a large rock fill embankment from the north end of the Dead Sea down past En Gedi. This would provide facility for fish culture and other activities related to having the Mediterranean Sea flowing along the western boundary of the Dead Sea. At the south end of the Dead Sea, gigantic pipelines would carry the water from the Mediterranean south to the Energy Towers. Brine from the towers would be returned by pipeline to the Dead Sea in a way that would not disrupt the mineral recovery of the Dead Sea Works, but maintain the level of the sea. Because of this return of water to the Dead Sea, Jordan could divert more water from the Jordan River.

The Energy Towers concept is being developed by Dr. Dan Zaslavsky, who abandoned the Dead-Med project in order to pursue his dream of harnessing solar energy by means of a four hundred meters diameter and one thousand meters high tower. The hot, dry dessert air, cooled by sprays of seawater at the top the tower, flow down to generate massive quantities of electric power with wind turbines powered by the continuous downdraft of the cooled air. This power could then be used to convert large quantities of seawater to fresh water for irrigation and other uses. This would supply a critical need for fresh water in the area, both in Jordan and Israel. Also it would allow the economic development of the Arabah in Jordan, and development of the Negev south of the Dead Sea in Israel. Eventually the project could be enlarged to irrigate large areas of the desert between the Dead Sea and Egypt. This economic development would open opportunities for those Palestinians who are now living in the refugee camps in several states.

My obsession with the vision of Ezekiel began in 1993. I had visited the Raccoon Mountain Pumped Storage Project built and operated by the Tennessee Valley Authority, US government owned electric power supplier to our valley. I had recently read about the dying Dead Sea, and the concern for the continued drop in the sea level. I realized that the Raccoon Mountain project involved the same basic design as a hydroelectric project for the Med-Dead, with water from a higher reservoir passing through tunnels in the mountain to power turbines deep within the mountain. Progress with the Chunnel under the English Channel made the construction of tunnels from the Mediterranean Sea to the Dead Sea plausible. I wrote a letter to Shoul Eisenburg telling him of my understanding of Ezekiel’s vision. I received an answer from Professor Dan Zaslavsky of Technion, thanking me for sharing my vision. This began a correspondence with Dr. Zaslavsky that has continued intermittently since that time.

Dan Zaslavsky’s Energy Towers project holds great promise for supplying clean renewable energy for the world, but it did not hold the same fascination for me as did the Ezekiel Vision. I realized that Energy Towers located in the hot and arid area south of the Dead Sea would operate very efficiently because of the increased air density one thousand feet below sea level. Also, the desalination potential of the Towers project could provide massive scale to the Med-Dead hydroelectric project. Instead of being limited by the evaporation rate of the Dead Sea, all water used for Energy Towers and gigantic desalination projects would pass through the Dead-Med hydroelectric generator, and multiply the power output. Eventual size would depend on the amount of water used for all purposes from the flow of the Mediterranean Sea down the west side of the Dead Sea. I tried to interest Dr. Zaslavsky in connecting the Energy Towers project with the Dead-Med project, in what I had begun to call the Ezekiel Project.

But Dr. Dan Zaslavsky did not seem interested in Dead-Med or the Ezekiel Project. His obsession with Energy Towers matched my obsession with Ezekiel’s vision. He asked me to help with fund raising for a demonstration project for Energy Towers. When I was not helpful with this request, our correspondences lapsed for some time. Later, when I again bombarded him with information about the Ezekiel Project possibilities, he asked that I not connect him with the Dead-Med project, which he considered of very limited value.

Meanwhile my vision of the Ezekiel Project progressed. I obtained rough estimates of the cost and economic factors related to the project. I estimate that fifteen billion US dollars, the cost of the Chunnel Project, may be a reasonable cost of the Ezekiel Project, including tunnel construction, hydroelectric station, a Dead Sea highway from the north end of the Dead Sea to below En Gedi, and construction of two Energy Towers in the desert south of the Dead Sea. This would be one of the greatest engineering projects of our age. It would require massive financial backing by governments. How could financial and political support for such a massive undertaking be arranged? It requires common goals and common interests such as propelled the construction of the Chunnel under the English Channel by Britain and France.

Now the reign of terror and the collapse of the peace process in the Middle East has generated the political will to find a permanent solution to the Palestinian problem. The Ezekiel Project may provide help for the economic problems, and make possible an agreeable living space for the Palestinian refugees. Will the vision of Ezekiel from more than 2560 years ago become reality in our time?

Yehezke’l, whose name means strengthened by God, was priest and prophet to Judah during the Babylonian captivity. He was born in 622 B.C. and died about 560 B.C. His powerful visions of the return of Israel to their homeland gave hope to Jews more than 2550 years ago, and may give hope for us all today.
It would be possible to build the Ezekiel Project within seven years with proper planning and funding. Dr. Dan Zaslavsky is the best person I know who is qualified with knowledge and experience to lead such a project. Presently he needs one hundred million US dollars to complete the demonstration project of Energy Towers. Please help him with this task, and thereby encourage him to become project director for the Ezekiel Project. Read Ezekiel’s vision for yourself, and connect with the power that can see the future.

[cerulean]

Nothing wrong with dreaming big. I don't have any idea if this is feasible or not, though. Does this project have a web site? I'd suggest that as a first step if you want to raise funds.

[rgonce]

Originally posted by cerulean
Nothing wrong with dreaming big. I don't have any idea if this is feasible or not, though. Does this project have a web site? I'd suggest that as a first step if you want to raise funds.

Dr. Dan Zaslavsky, Dean of Agricultural Engineering at Technion, has organized a company for investment in Energy Towers.

Go to google,

put in the words Energy Towers Dan Zaslavsky

and you will get the scoop on energy towers.

Do the same with Dead-Med desalination and you will get the history of the Dead-Med project.

The Ezekiel Project must have the backing of the Government of Israel before it will move. Those with access to them can make them aware of the possibilities.

I have sent approximately five hundred emails to people in news and government. It is very difficult in todays environment to get a fair hearing for an idea.

[elke]

Sounds fascinating.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by rgonce




I wonder what you find funny?

Jesus was born in Nazareth, promised birthplace of Messiah.

Jesus is not only Israel's, but the world's most famous teacher.

Why is it not unfortunate when one does not know the world's greatest teacher?

But please look at Ezekiel 47:1-12 (English Bible) and tell me what you think of Ezekiel's vision.

Quite frankly I think it’s strange to have someone post that believes Jesus was a Rabbi. If for the sake of an argument an individual like Jesus did exist he couldn’t be considered a Rabbi.

Only someone that has missed the boat would post anything like that.

In any event what are you going to do when you empty the Mediterranean Sea and the world gets top-heavy and flips into the Dead Sea?

[rgonce]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM


Quite frankly I think it’s strange to have someone post that believes Jesus was a Rabbi. If for the sake of an argument an individual like Jesus did exist he couldn’t be considered a Rabbi.

Only someone that has missed the boat would post anything like that.

In any event what are you going to do when you empty the Mediterranean Sea and the world gets top-heavy and flips into the Dead Sea?

I will be glad to take up this discussion with you privately. My email address is available.

This forum is not the place for debate about the existence of Jesus.

I will not be responding to any more complaints about Jesus in this thread. However, for the record, Jesus was called Rabbi, which means master, eight times in the eye witness record written by John, Galilee fisherman disciple of Jesus.

Obviously it was correct to call Jesus Rabbi at that time.

Regarding the water going into the Dead Sea, it will be separated from the Dead Sea by a highway, and used for fish culture, desalination, and irrigation, etc. The level of the Dead Sea will not be raised above agreed level set by treaty with Jordan. Ultimately this water will all evaporate and return to the atmosphere and fall as rain somewhere.

[elke]

Are you an engineer, rgonce? I did a search on Med Dead project, and found that there were 2 major concerns that effectively killed it:
1. Money - the article mentioned about $40B would be required to build this project
2. Environmental uncertainty: the project, apparently, required getting water from both the Red and the Mediterranean Seas. The salinity of the two seas is different, so the scientists were not sure what would happen to the water as it mixes. They were afraid that the water in the seas would turn colors, and weren't sure how that would affect the ecosystems.

Don't get me wrong: I am not arguing that it's completely impossible - I am no engineer; but I am just wondering if something new is in the works regarding the ecological concerns that would allow the project to proceed. It does seem to be very promising, if it's feasible.

[rgonce]

Originally posted by elke
Are you an engineer, rgonce? I did a search on Med Dead project, and found that there were 2 major concerns that effectively killed it:
1. Money - the article mentioned about $40B would be required to build this project
2. Environmental uncertainty: the project, apparently, required getting water from both the Red and the Mediterranean Seas. The salinity of the two seas is different, so the scientists were not sure what would happen to the water as it mixes. They were afraid that the water in the seas would turn colors, and weren't sure how that would affect the ecosystems.

Don't get me wrong: I am not arguing that it's completely impossible - I am no engineer; but I am just wondering if something new is in the works regarding the ecological concerns that would allow the project to proceed. It does seem to be very promising, if it's feasible.

Yes, I am a retired Agricultural Engineer, which is multi-discipline civil, mechanical, and electrical. I have experience in hydraulics and electric power.

You are correct about the reason that the Dead-Med was abandoned in the 80's. The plan called the Red-Dead was to pump water from the Red Sea and send it through a series of dams. That proposal was not economically feasible, and also would flood land that could be cultivated under the Ezekiel Project.

Boring tunnels with Tunnel Boring Machines is a much more ecconomically feasible plan. Also the Ezekiel Project would be totally under Israel's controll, while the Red-Dead project was a joint project with Jordan.

The Ezekiel Project avoids the environmental concerns by keeping the Med water separate from the Dead Sea, and returning brine from the desalination project of the same density as the Dead Sea.

[elke]

Thank you, Rgonce! This is very, very interesting!

So, as I understand it, right now you are looking to help Dr. Dan Zaslavsky with the funding of the prototype Tower project, so that in turn, he could take over the management of the Ezekiel, along with the Towers? Is this correct?

[rgonce]

Originally posted by elke
Thank you, Rgonce! This is very, very interesting!

So, as I understand it, right now you are looking to help Dr. Dan Zaslavsky with the funding of the prototype Tower project, so that in turn, he could take over the management of the Ezekiel, along with the Towers? Is this correct?

That is correct. Whether or not Energy Towers is ever connected with the Ezekiel Project, it (Energy Towers) is an exciting project by its own merit.

[rgonce]

Originally posted by elke
Thank you, Rgonce! This is very, very interesting!

So, as I understand it, right now you are looking to help Dr. Dan Zaslavsky with the funding of the prototype Tower project, so that in turn, he could take over the management of the Ezekiel, along with the Towers? Is this correct?

That is correct. Whether or not Energy Towers is ever connected with the Ezekiel Project, it (Energy Towers) is an exciting project by its own merit.

At the present time Dr. Zaslavsky is not looking at the Ezekiel Project. He is totally absorbed with the Energy Towers. I hope that if he gets the Towers project going, he might pursue locating one or more towers in connection with the Ezekiel project.

However, these projects are not necessarily connected. Other methods of desalination can be used in connection with the Ezekiel Project without the involvement of Energy Towers. But Dr. Zaslavsky has more knowledge and experience related to the Ezekiel Project than any other person I know.

The Towers project has the possibility of progressing with investment support. The Ezekiel Project will have to be done by the government of Israel and by treaty agreements with Jordan.

Presently I am trying several ways to get the plan to the attention of those in government in Israel with the clout to get things started. Are you such a person? Do you have the ear of such a person?

[elke]

Not really, not myself. I am sorry, I did not mean to give you the wrong impression. I will keep an eye out, and think about who I may know that may be able to help you. Forgive yet another silly question, but who in the Israeli government do you think would be able to help?

[rgonce]

Originally posted by elke
Not really, not myself. I am sorry, I did not mean to give you the wrong impression. I will keep an eye out, and think about who I may know that may be able to help you. Forgive yet another silly question, but who in the Israeli government do you think would be able to help?

I think that it would be useful if many people contacted the government asking about the Ezekiel Project. That could get something going. They already have some information, but not enough to have caused them to respond.

Also it would be useful if some University research department would undertake a study of the project.

You can find the phone numbers and web sites for the government of Israel at:

http://www.pmo.gov.il/english/ts.exe?tsurl=0.28.0.0.0

[MGB8]

What happened to Christian tolerance?

As for the Palestinian people - they have to make up their minds - go to war with Israel (which they are doing now), a war which they can not and will not win, or make peace with Israel and ask for Israel to give up some of the territory it won in 1967 for their own state.

Yes ask. Israel has just as much right to it as the Palestinian Arabs, if not more, considering that there was never a Palestinian state that owned the area.

Israel has an interest in giving away the land - to keep a strong Jewish majority and thus perserve the future of Israel as the Jewish homeland.

But Israel has no obligation to give one inch of that land. Not one obligation. land changes hands in wars. The Arabs made war on Israel - they attacked, not the other way around. They lost, and are shamed for their loss (which is a huge factor in the ongoing problem, friggin pride, one of your deadly sins), but that is the fact.

[rgonce]

I had not suggested that Israel give the Palestinians any land. However, they seem prepared to give the West Bank, and are building a fence around it. I suggested that economic and treaty agreements be made with Jordan toward making the Arabah in Jordan accessible to Palestinians from refugee camps in several nations, including Israel.

Terrorists must be punished, destroyed if necessary, but the remainder of the Palestinians need some opportunity for a meaningful life.

The seven deadly sins are from the Proverbs of Israel's King Solomon. They are very Jewish in origin.

Prov 6:16-19
16 These six things the LORD hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
NKJV

[rgonce]

There is now a website for the Ezekiel's Water Project, www.ezekielproject.org

A meeting is being held April 12 in Tel Aviv to share information and to attempt to organize a Dead Sea Joint Venture, a global consortium to build the Dead Sea Water Project according to the Ezekiel's Water Project plan described on the website.

Public support for the project is essential to building the political will to move forward with this very important project.

[Dytronimun]

Great God you have...He lets his people(Jews) get killed by his own followers(Muslims) oh JHWH You are really a God of Love and Peace. Religion only makes war!!!

[Mediocrates]

Cute sig. Is it real?

[rgonce]

The abuse of something has nothing to say against the correct use of that thing.

Religion organized by men to promote human power and hatred has nothing to say against the Power that teaches love and that keeps His promises.

As for the rebel destroyer, his future destruction is made sure by the resurrection of Yeshua, a confirmed fact of history.

What has the destroyer done for you lately? I would expect his opposition to a project that has so much value for good.

However, we must not use this forum for religious wrangling. Please contact me privately if you wish to continue this discussion.

[MGB8]

Very intersting project, indeed.

[rgonce]

The Dead Sea Water Project has the potential to restore viable flow in the Jordan River by sending 500 million cubic meters annually desalinated water north from a Dead Sea desalination plant in a pipeline to just below the Sea of Galilee, supplying potable water to both sides of the Jordan on the way up, and letting enough flow into the Jordan River to supply irrigation water as needed and still maintain a flow that will restore the environmental quality of the Jordan River.

[Toga]

The current move to put a wall around the Palestinians and to quarantine them is not efficient or in the best interest of any of the concerned parties. Creating economic opportunity in Jordan that will encourage the employment of Palestinians would be a better solution. It also is a reflection of the command of Jesus
to love our enemies.

There is a plan for developing the Arabah in Jordan as well as the southern deserts of Israel through a massive desalination and power generation project. This would open opportunities for Palestinians to move out of the refugee camps in several countries and to be settled in an area outside of Israel's borders but connected with the Palestinian areas in Israel by limited access transportation corridors.

If you are interested in knowing more about the possibilities, contact me.

Here comes another disguised missionary. They cannot stay away from the Jews, can they?

Pests!

[Toga]

They come under all kinds of pretences knowing that they cannot start selling their beliefs right away so they mix it in with some other topics.

Sick arrogance!