Deportation not fair, says Islamic extremist (he's on welfare & benefits)

[Illuminatus]

[.. An extreme Muslim cleric whose family have been living on benefits in Britain for 20 years says it would not be 'fair' to deport him.

Speaking after the Prime Minister announced his clampdown, father-of-seven Sheik Omar Bakri said: "I have wives, children, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law. It would be hard on my family if I was deported." ..]

Deportation not fair! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=358382&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)

A few recent quotes from Sheik Omar Bakri, a father of 7 and on welfare :

1) Defending the Madrid mass-murders, he told young British Muslims, some as young as ten, that they must "kill and be killed" for Islam; that "suicide bombers would be guaranteed a place in paradise"; and even that they should consider "flying a plane into 10 Downing Street".

2) "Prepare as much as you can from strength and from force to terrorise - because terrorism it is part of Islam."

3) "Martyrdom is what you want. Do the effort. Clear your intention. Go forward, never look backwards. Make sure you have nothing left behind you to think about or cry for and fight in the name of Allah."

4) "So what is self sacrifice operation? It's got to be the following scenario. Somebody he fly aeroplane and he decide to land the aeroplane over 10 Downing Street, for example, or over the White House. This is a form of self-sacrifice operation."

* source: The BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2004/04_april/05/suicide_bombers.shtml)

The poor guy, shouldn't the evil West have mercy and compassion?
....sniff...

[Aviva]

Thankfully, the issue of treason is now being discussed by the UK government. People like Bakri and those who support him are commiting treason against the UK and should be dealt with harshly, in my opinion. I think in English Law, those guilty of treason against the crown can actually still be hanged.

Of course, human rights groups claim that in a democracy, everyone's opinion is valid. :rolleyes:

I say deport him. The irony is that he'll whine that his life will be in danger in his own country if he's forced to go back there.

[Luke90]

I say deport him. The irony is that he'll whine that his life will be in danger in his own country if he's forced to go back there.
I don't see the logic of deportation. Surely it would be better for them to be in prison where they can't be any more danger than free in another country. Isn't it just moving the problem on to somewhere else so we don't have to pay to keep them in prison?

[Illuminatus]

One year stay in a British prison - £38,000

One way plane ticket to Damascus - £450

After calling for the death of President Bashar Assad, demand
the establishment of the Khalifah and the destruction of the
Syrian Arab Republic: one AK-47 round - 20pence

[Luke90]

I'd rather see some of my taxes go to keeping them safely locked up instead of just letting them loose somewhere else.

[Mediocrates]

I guess it would be 'unfair' to imprison him too because so many people depend on him.

Don't throw yourself on their mercy, it's a godawfully small target.

[atricnorth]

i wonder when will they ever use the guillotine again?

or the executor, with a big axe

easy, fast , no taxes needed, good publicity though.

there is a head, thats fast.

bring back the wood and cutting board.

[Gilgamesh]

I don't see the logic of deportation. Surely it would be better for them to be in prison where they can't be any more danger than free in another country. Isn't it just moving the problem on to somewhere else so we don't have to pay to keep them in prison?

Demage, even great demage can be done in prison.
Both orginize crime, and terror organizations, regard prisons as institution of higher (criminal) education.

It will take the media some time to revel that petty muslems criminals come out of jail more extreme and far more dangerous, with connections, skills and drive to commance far bigger crimes and even terrorism.

Best is to publicly hang that cleric, in his own neighbourhood, infornt of his wife and children, just like they do in Damascus or Islamabad. Only such thing will deliver the proper message.

Having him deported is the next best thing.

Suspending their welfare and benefits is the theird best thing (cause they won't go to work, they will move to some other country).

Since the 80's Israel hadn't deported a single Arab. Welfare and benefits only grew encouraging even more Arab immigation into our country. We lack the leadership and the courage to do what is necessary.

[minusthejihad]

Demage, even great demage can be done in prison.
Both orginize crime, and terror organizations, regard prisons as institution of higher (criminal) education.

As Kohny Depp's character said (something like it) in "Blow":

"I went to prison with a Bachelors in Marijuana but I came out with a Masters in Coke"

[Illuminatus]

Britain’s MI5 intelligence chiefs are warning Tony Blair that Britain may face an Islamist insurgency – in Britain.

[.. Intelligence chiefs are warning Tony Blair that Britain faces a full-blown Islamist insurgency, sustained by thousands of young Muslim men with military training now resident in this country.
.
.
there were more than 100,000 people in Britain from "completely militarised" regions, including Somalia and its neighbours in the Horn of Africa, and Afghanistan and territories bordering the country. "Every one of them knows how to use an AK-47," ..]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article304303.ece

But by all means, try the British Prison System first - we'll discuss later if deportation of violent mass-murderers is less expensive.

[Mediocrates]

Deportation is supposed to have a psychological effect. Put the fear a God in 'em. I would imagine that among extremists, jail is actually an award.

[Aviva]

I don't see the logic of deportation. Surely it would be better for them to be in prison where they can't be any more danger than free in another country. Isn't it just moving the problem on to somewhere else so we don't have to pay to keep them in prison?

Hmm - yeah, you're right....

Let's just hang him instead.

Apparantly, he's buggered off to Lebanon but wants to return to the UK in 4 weeks time. I say meet him at Heathrow with a big hug and a noose.

[Mediocrates]

Of course if you lock them all up you can use them as bargaining chips and 'free' them say, at a ratio of 800:1 like the Israelis do whenver one of theirs is captured by the peaceful peaceloving people of peace.On the other hand, with simple imprisonment abused women all over Britain would then be free to get jobs, walk around outside, not get murdered for dating outside her own family, etc.

[Fallujah]

I couldn't help but notice the "Every one of them knows how to use an AK-47," thats the stupidist thing i ever heard. So by that logic if a refugee from somalia gives birth to a kid & goes to Britain he knows how to use a kalashnikov?

Im sick of this Racist propaganda. Im Irish & we too have felt the brunt of this in Britain by imperalist pigs.

[minusthejihad]

Great, an Irish Jihadee! Now I've seen everything!

[Fallujah]

Great, an Irish Jihadee! Now I've seen everything!

I wouldn't Support Jihad.... Because it brings religion into war & this is always wrong. I am Supporter of Popular Marxist resistance however. Groups such as the old IRA, iraqi Resistance ,FARC , ETA & Some of the PLO I would sympathise with.

I have absolutely no problem with jewish people....its the Zionists that get up my back.

Nice to hear from ya anyway man!

[Mediocrates]

So I take it you have more of Bobby Sands approach. Let them arrest you and you starve yourself to death for little or no purpose. One Bernadette Devlin did more for the Irish than all the Bobby Sands put together. 400 years of knocking your heads on prison walls should have taught you that.

[minusthejihad]

Yeah well....

Tony Montana says... "I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice."

And many anti-semites are known to preface their Jew hatred with "Some of my friends are Jooos" OR

"I have absolutely no problem with jewish people....its the Zionists that get up my back."

I'm not calling you one, but I'd like to see where you with this.

Lastly, just to let you know man, I had many ideologies like you when I was in college, but once I grew up, I am proud to say that I am a "Proud American Russian-Jew Zionist Capitalist Neocon". But peace mon!

[Mediocrates]

BTW part of my family was driven out of Northern Ireland. At gunpoint mostly by either the British Army or the IRA depending on who needed to sound like a big man that day.

[Fallujah]

So I take it you have more of Bobby Sands approach. Let them arrest you and you starve yourself to death for little or no purpose. One Bernadette Devlin did more for the Irish than all the Bobby Sands put together. 400 years of knocking your heads on prison walls should have taught you that.

MY GOD!
As if you knew something about Bobby Sands or something...

Firstly you obviously know NOTHING about Ireland.

IT was 800 years & no we were not knocking our head against prison walls, we were resisting religious persecution, Genocide, Sectarianism, Landlordism, serfism, Imperalism, Slavery & Bullying all because we were an 'uncivilised Race'.

Well if you call popular rebellions & millions of causualties on both sides, French & spanish intervention (to fight britain) 'banging our heads against prison walls'...then you sir need your head checked.

& where did all this come from anyway?
I must be here only ten minutes!

[minusthejihad]

WTF is Lanlordism. I guess the property I own in Detroit and lease out makes me a Lanlordist! Damn Skippy!

[Fallujah]

Your out of college!?!?!
Because for someone thats out of college your real insulting.
You cant take me on in serious debate so you resort to insults... :rolleyes: Bill O' Reilly eat your heart out!

Too much yankee propaganda not enough intellegence.

[Fallujah]

WTF is Lanlordism. I guess the property I own in Detroit and lease out makes me a Lanlordist! Damn Skippy!

Landlordism is why theres millions of Irish in america. That & the Famine. READ A BOOK!

[minusthejihad]

no dude. you openly side with my enemies, that makes you such. and what debate? about mythological places like Amerikkka?

[Fallujah]

BTW part of my family was driven out of Northern Ireland. At gunpoint mostly by either the British Army or the IRA depending on who needed to sound like a big man that day.

When were they driven out? give me a date & i'll honestly tell you who it was.
The northen Irish protestant/loyalist anti-catholic 'Orange order' is responsible for attacks on churches/synagouges/mosques etc

They want 100% religious dominance in the North. So guess who!

[minusthejihad]

Landlordism is why theres millions of Irish in america. That & the Famine. READ A BOOK!

I think a large percentage of Irish-AmeriKKKans are also Landlordists.

[Fallujah]

no dude. you openly side with my enemies, that makes you such. and what debate? about mythological places like Amerikkka?

That was an intentional mis-spelling. 3k's? go on.... see how long it takes.
BTW all you do is bring up stupid points...nothing constructive.

[minusthejihad]

That was an intentional mis-spelling. 3k's? go on.... see how long it takes.
BTW all you do is bring up stupid points...nothing constructive.

And what is the first constructive point you've made today? About Zionists getting up your back? About imperialist pigs? About Amerikkka (what is that anyway)? So constructive!!!! I'm impressed!

[minusthejihad]

That was an intentional mis-spelling. 3k's? go on.... see how long it takes.
BTW all you do is bring up stupid points...nothing constructive.

Points I made add that you have been thus far unable to refute. But I digress

[Fallujah]

zzzzzzz
repetition....

[minusthejihad]

I don't get it. What is your purpose here? You have not refuted a single point? Are you just trolling? Stop acting naive if you have no substance to back up your political talking points picked up a rally.

[Mediocrates]

When were they driven out? give me a date & i'll honestly tell you who it was.
The northen Irish protestant/loyalist anti-catholic 'Orange order' is responsible for attacks on churches/synagouges/mosques etc

They want 100% religious dominance in the North. So guess who!


I didn't say they were Jews, did I?

[Mediocrates]

MY GOD!
As if you knew something about Bobby Sands or something...

Firstly you obviously know NOTHING about Ireland.

IT was 800 years & no we were not knocking our head against prison walls, we were resisting religious persecution, Genocide, Sectarianism, Landlordism, serfism, Imperalism, Slavery & Bullying all because we were an 'uncivilised Race'.

Well if you call popular rebellions & millions of causualties on both sides, French & spanish intervention (to fight britain) 'banging our heads against prison walls'...then you sir need your head checked.

& where did all this come from anyway?
I must be here only ten minutes!


Yes yes wave the bloody shirt! And what did you accomplish? A few good folksongs and not much bloody else.

[Mediocrates]

Landlordism is why theres millions of Irish in america. That & the Famine. READ A BOOK!


I'm quite familiar already, thanks. The Irish exodus to America occupies a relatively short period of time, about 1840-1860, in relation to the history of the relationship between Ireland and the US.

[Fallujah]

I didn't say they were Jews, did I?

Then let me formally apologise for my assumption.
What were the circumstances for leaving? Please Explain.

[Fallujah]

Yes yes wave the bloody shirt! And what did you accomplish? A few good folksongs and not much bloody else.

Well thousands of dead troops anyway.
Where are you from?

[Illuminatus]

Post #14 whines about a line in a article I posted earlier today

"Every one of them knows how to use an AK-47"

the poster continues with:

[..thats the stupidist thing i ever heard. Im sick of this Racist propaganda...]

The writers, Raymond Whitaker and Francis Elliott of London's "Independent News & Media (UK) Ltd. © 2005" attributed the quote to a "well-connected source" -- maybe MI5, maybe not.

Here 'ya Fallujah, start crying to them about the "stupidist" thing you ever heard.

* News Desk - newseditor@independent.co.uk

* Foreign Desk - foreigneditor@independent.co.uk

and if you really want your diatribe published, try this:
* letters@independent.co.uk

good luck

[Fallujah]

JUST DID! Dont think I was the only one as probably the whole British muslim community is insulted by it.

[minusthejihad]

JUST DID! Dont think I was the only one as probably the whole British muslim community is insulted by it.

I know how to use weapons, but I'm not insulted.

[Illuminatus]

Please keep us posted on how these "imperalist pigs" from Britain change their editorial and freedom of speech policies -- just so that you'll stop hearing the "stupidist" things ever.

I'm sure an apology to the "whole British muslim community insulted by it" and Irish Trotskyites everywhere, will arrive at any moment.

regards

[Gilgamesh]

This guy Falluga is either very young, or he got banged on the head and went to sleep for 3-4 decades, only now has waken up.

Falluga, have another Guiness and leave us alone.
Ireland is a fair place. Pitty it is wasted on a bunch of soddy buggers like you.

We used to have some sympathy to the Shin Feinn back in the 30's and 40's, when we were struggeling to get the British Imperialist's boot out of our face. It ended when you became Marxists, and sided with the Arabs and the USSR.

We have no more interest in Ireland, the femin or anything. Ireland isn't the center of our world. Israel is. Go harras somebody else.

How come a Marxist as your self sides with Arab Jihadi facists? Lev Bernstein Trosky had it right, as you put on your signature, time to shove your head into the pavement.
Let us be and push off.

[Fallujah]

This guy Falluga is either very young, or he got banged on the head and went to sleep for 3-4 decades, only now has waken up.

Falluga, have another Guiness and leave us alone.
Ireland is a fair place. Pitty it is wasted on a bunch of soddy buggers like you.

We used to have some sympathy to the Shin Feinn back in the 30's and 40's, when we were struggeling to get the British Imperialist's boot out of our face. It ended when you became Marxists, and sided with the Arabs and the USSR.

We have no more interest in Ireland, the femin or anything. Ireland isn't the center of our world. Israel is. Go harras somebody else.

How come a Marxist as your self sides with Arab Jihadi facists? Lev Bernstein Trosky had it right, as you put on your signature, time to shove your head into the pavement.
Let us be and push off.

WHERE TO START?
Lets start with your racist insults.
Firstly you say 'Falluga, have another Guiness and leave us alone. '
Even though you cant spell 'Fallujah' nor 'Guinness' you insult where I am from & my nationality.....thats full blown racist,Id be banned for less than that. Im sorry that you need to resort to insults.
Then you proceed to call us 'buggers'? Thats Pushing it. But, I will not drop myself to your lack of Intellectual standing.

I am quite friendly with a Jewish Marxists & Isreal has a labour party. It was IRA & PLO co-operation that tarnished Irish - Isreali relations despite the fact the IRA is an illegal organisation Which Irish people do not condone on a large scale, so you basically accuse every Irish person of being involved in terrorist activities...yet another racial remark.

Ireland isn't the centre of the world? When did I say it was? Isreal is not, the world is round buddy. Ever seen a globe?

I never harassed anybody on this site, I mearly expressed an opinion and got harassed for it. Little logical debate was returned along with hoards of racism & ignorance. Im here to hit the far-right with exactly what hurts them the most....the truth & the destruction of their ignorance.

I have already stated that I dont condone revolutionary activities in the Name of religion if you actually know the ideology of these 'Jihadi Facists'.FACISTS!?!? Take a look in the mirror pal, Im not insulting you, Im saying TAKE A GOOD,LONG,HARD LOOK AT THE PRINCIPLES OF FACISM & COMPARE IT TO THAT OF ZIONISM & AMERICAN CAPITALISM..... which are almost Identical.

if you actually read the full Trotsky statement you'd know he was referring to capitalism/facism....... :rolleyes:

[minusthejihad]

Im here to hit the far-right with exactly what hurts them the most....the truth & the destruction of their ignorance.

Sure, everyone has a hold on "the truth". Why not you?


FACISTS!?!? Take a look in the mirror pal, Im not insulting you, Im saying TAKE A GOOD,LONG,HARD LOOK AT THE PRINCIPLES OF FACISM & COMPARE IT TO THAT OF ZIONISM & AMERICAN CAPITALISM..... which are almost Identical.

Now that has to be nearly the most assinine, childish, neo-marxist, nazi=everything comparision I have heard to date. I'm not trying to insult you, but merely anyone that can possibly think that.

For those of us that don't have the time to take a good, long, hard look at the moment, maybe you can enlighten us. And let's not look at the Wikipedia definitions and instead focus on the two most representative societies that resemble those ideologies (Capitalism=USA, Facism=Nazi Germany)

Please enlighten us on the similarities between the two on these specific topics if you would like:

Ownership/Possession of Property

Freedom (people's rights, press, dissent, etc.)

Economic

Lastly, have you ever been to Amerikkka?

[Fallujah]

LETS DO IT MAN.

AUTHORITARIAN STATE- USA,ISREAL, NAZI GERMANY.
ALL ARE FAR-RIGHT - ECONOMICALLY
AGRESSIVE FOREIGN POLICY.
HATRED OF COMMUNISM
PROPERTY IS OWNED BY THE INDIVIDUAL
STONG NATIONALISM/PATRIOTISM
HEAVILY MILITARISATION
Strongly RACIST-ISREAL-ARABS
NAZI GERMANY-BASICALLY ALL NON-GERMANS ARE 'INFERIOR'

THE FATHER OF ZIONISM WAS Theodore Hertzl He was a National Socialist (Ethnonationalist & Socialist). Hitlers Ideas came from Hertzl's Theories only he refashioned them to appeal to Germans at the time.

Basically Hertzl Was a Socialist and Nationalist who created Zionism & thus was a NationalSocialist or NAZI. But its not entirely accurate to call zionism nazism i mean it as a political epiteth, and intend it this way.

Both Mussolini & Hertzl gave Hitler the ideological basis for a political ideal.

[minusthejihad]

LETS DO IT MAN.

Honestly, I was expecting more analysis and evidence from you as well as direct comparisons, and instead all I got was a bunch of Counterpunchesque, bloody rag catch phrases. But it won't be too hard to deconstruct anyway.


AUTHORITARIAN STATE- USA,ISREAL, NAZI GERMANY.
WHAT?!? Who says? You? Well, the rest of the civilized, responsible, non-anarchistic world population that doesn't live under the boot of dictatorship and a censored media would call the USA and Israel Democracies. Just because you state that in no way whatsoever makes it true. No matter how loud you yell it or hope it is true. You are dead wrong.


ALL ARE FAR-RIGHT - ECONOMICALLY
Huh? Can you explain further please? I do not understand how you can compare political ideologies with economies. It doesn't make sense. Anyway, even the difference between the US Economic Practices and Israel's are so vast, you can't even claim they are that similar. I was talking about Private Owned vs Government Run.


AGRESSIVE FOREIGN POLICY.
Before Iraq was invaded, they had one of the most aggresive foreign policies on earth, Kuwait, Iran, Northern Iraq, etc. They were not a democracy nor capitalistic. I fail to see how you can correlate an aggresive foreign policy with the type of goverment. What about China and the FSU?


HATRED OF COMMUNISM
What? Both Israel (with Kibbutzim) and the USA have our own Communist Parties that operate in the open. Under a facist regime, no other forms of government are even allowed to be talked about in the open. Poor comparison. There is no hatred of communism, there is an understanding that it was a miserable failure.


PROPERTY IS OWNED BY THE INDIVIDUAL
In a facist system? Are you fo real? Where? Poor guy, you are so full of propoganda, I feel terrible for you. I'm telling you this as a person that escaped from a facist/communist country called the FSU.


STONG NATIONALISM/PATRIOTISM
So what? I guess that would make every Arab country in the world a facist state them, there we can agree. Actually, it would make almost every country a facist state.


HEAVILY MILITARISATION
And the USSR and China are not? How about Pakistan or Syria?


Strongly RACIST-ISREAL-ARABS
Huh? What? Prove it. And reading through your other posts, I think you use the term racism too frequently and incorrectly. In some cases I think you meant religious or nationalistic discrimination. Those are not the same as racism.


NAZI GERMANY-BASICALLY ALL NON-GERMANS ARE 'INFERIOR'
What does that have to do with the USA or Israel. Prove that either the government or majority of people in either country believe the "others" are inferior please. I'd love to see.


THE FATHER OF ZIONISM WAS Theodore Hertzl He was a National Socialist (Ethnonationalist & Socialist). Hitlers Ideas came from Hertzl's Theories only he refashioned them to appeal to Germans at the time.

Basically Hertzl Was a Socialist and Nationalist who created Zionism & thus was a NationalSocialist or NAZI. But its not entirely accurate to call zionism nazism i mean it as a political epiteth, and intend it this way.

Both Mussolini & Hertzl gave Hitler the ideological basis for a political ideal.

Ok guy. This theory is full of holes, I'll leave it up to some of the more prolific posters in here to demolish it. Lets just say, don't you think it's ironic that Hitler, one of the worst Jew-haters of all time who believed Jews were both inferior mentally and physically would use a theory concocted by a Jew? Hmmm.

[Illuminatus]

How many Trotskyites does it take to change a light bulb?

" Hear me Comrades!
It is no use trying to CHANGE it brothers. We must end the exploitation
by Electric Utilities -- all light bulbs must be SMASHED! "

[Mediocrates]

LETS DO IT MAN.




Maybe you'd be happier at another board. I can recommend a few where the people generally share your views. Consider it an honest offer.

[Fallujah]

Honestly, I was expecting more analysis and evidence from you as well as direct comparisons, and instead all I got was a bunch of Counterpunchesque, bloody rag catch phrases. But it won't be too hard to deconstruct anyway.


WHAT?!? Who says? You? Well, the rest of the civilized, responsible, non-anarchistic world population that doesn't live under the boot of dictatorship and a censored media would call the USA and Israel Democracies. Just because you state that in no way whatsoever makes it true. No matter how loud you yell it or hope it is true. You are dead wrong.


Huh? Can you explain further please? I do not understand how you can compare political ideologies with economies. It doesn't make sense. Anyway, even the difference between the US Economic Practices and Israel's are so vast, you can't even claim they are that similar. I was talking about Private Owned vs Government Run.


Before Iraq was invaded, they had one of the most aggresive foreign policies on earth, Kuwait, Iran, Northern Iraq, etc. They were not a democracy nor capitalistic. I fail to see how you can correlate an aggresive foreign policy with the type of goverment. What about China and the FSU?


What? Both Israel (with Kibbutzim) and the USA have our own Communist Parties that operate in the open. Under a facist regime, no other forms of government are even allowed to be talked about in the open. Poor comparison. There is no hatred of communism, there is an understanding that it was a miserable failure.


In a facist system? Are you fo real? Where? Poor guy, you are so full of propoganda, I feel terrible for you. I'm telling you this as a person that escaped from a facist/communist country called the FSU.


So what? I guess that would make every Arab country in the world a facist state them, there we can agree. Actually, it would make almost every country a facist state.


And the USSR and China are not? How about Pakistan or Syria?


Huh? What? Prove it. And reading through your other posts, I think you use the term racism too frequently and incorrectly. In some cases I think you meant religious or nationalistic discrimination. Those are not the same as racism.


What does that have to do with the USA or Israel. Prove that either the government or majority of people in either country believe the "others" are inferior please. I'd love to see.



Ok guy. This theory is full of holes, I'll leave it up to some of the more prolific posters in here to demolish it. Lets just say, don't you think it's ironic that Hitler, one of the worst Jew-haters of all time who believed Jews were both inferior mentally and physically would use a theory concocted by a Jew? Hmmm.


What exactly constitutes 'civilised' in your opinion? I NEVER said I was an anarchist..nor am I. I dont even see Anarchists as being part of leftist ideals.I would also like to add the fact that I dont agree with Dictatorships. Please excuse the fact that im going Greek on you here..... DEMOCRACY literally translates & means 'MOB RULE' or 'CIVILIAN RULE' meaning that the people rule the state. USA isn't a democracy seeing as the ruling two parties have very little ideological difference between them and Also the fact that Bush fixes elections (florida..least we forget). THE Palestinians dont get any say in the Isreali state so its therefore not a democracy. JUST because I say it dosent make it true? well Look at the Iraqi 'REPUBLIC'...would you call it that? So just because USA and ISREAL call themselves 'Democracies' makes them so? Bush has proven himself a blatent liar on several occasions so im not taking his word for granted. Besides I have heard many people whom are Pro-Isreali's call the country a 'police state'....does this not mean authoritarian? Economics are a part of political Ideology BTW. Social and econimic policies make up an ideal.
My challenge is to you to prove me wrong! You have failed thus far.


USA is a far-right wing state economically. Globalisation explains enough. It is basically Imperialism on an economic level. EG NIKE factories in south-east Asia. I am aware that the Isreali system is hugely different to the American system in terms of capitalism. But the system exists to a much lesser extent in Isreal. You have Small -Scale industries rather then large ones. Same minus the Imperalism but Including the Workers exploitation but im not gonna get into Marxism as most here havent the slightest idea what its about.

By the Aggressive foreign policy im simply striking up simularities between the Nazi German state and the US/ISREAL states. I never mentioned IRAQ nor would I condone any of Saddams actions, most especially the use of VX-poison gas against Kurds- its simply sick. So dont twist the facts here. The US government is responsible for sanctions which killed 500,000 people (they couldnt get medical aid in Iraq due to sanctions, also Depleated Uranium was a big factor in the 6000% increase in deformed babies born since 1991.... DU comes from Abrams tanks) in Iraq (just take a look at these poor kids whose only crime was being born into a country ruled by US tyrants Uses of Depleated Uranium (http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/du/) ).

The communist party in Isreal presents no danger to the ruling party. the US communist party? Where?!? I thought your rich bankers silenced them in the 60's? The ballot box dosent always mean the party that comes out is right. Its not a party run by god to any extent. Thats why Zionism hates communism then? The Very foundation of the State.

There are very few Arab democracies. Arab dictatorship has destroyed many states I agree....even though I never condoned any arab states.... nor did I condone China,Soviet Union or Iraq.......Stop putting words in my mouth.

You mean to say that Bush & republicans, Sharon and Zionist's would tolerate a communist parties rule? Two War mongers & their cronies.... give me a break.

Again I never mentioned Arab states nor do I support what they do.

The UN defines Clearly that racism is:
"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." BTW 'Nationalistic descrimination'? If the Zionist government recognised their right to nationallity they'd be independant.... Nationalistic descrimination is also covered by the Un charter concerning racism.
Would this not apply to the Palestinians?

If Facism didn't imply private ownership then why would the Agnelli Family (owners of Fiat) Support Mussolini & make huge profits untill he deservedly got caught & was hung off a lampost by Communist guerilla's?

Hitler hated the jews because of their Class & wealthy standing (the ones that he was concerned about anyway, I in no way say that all jews are rich).
Of course Hertzl's definitions were not anti-jewish but exactly match all other elements.... Stop pretending you dont understand in order to twist my words.

Check it out for yourself then.... dont take my word for it. Check all my info out. Im well reserched. Im still waiting for your more 'prolific' members to prove me wrong.

[Fallujah]

How many Trotskyites does it take to change a light bulb?

" Hear me Comrades!
It is no use trying to CHANGE it brothers. We must end the exploitation
by Electric Utilities -- all light bulbs must be SMASHED! "


Im not a Trotskyite.
This is complete stupidity.

[minusthejihad]

How many Trotskyites does it take to change a light bulb?

" Hear me Comrades!
It is no use trying to CHANGE it brothers. We must end the exploitation
by Electric Utilities -- all light bulbs must be SMASHED! "


LOL! That is tyte Commissar!

[minusthejihad]

What exactly constitutes 'civilised' in your opinion? I NEVER said I was an anarchist..nor am I. I dont even see Anarchists as being part of leftist ideals.I would also like to add the fact that I dont agree with Dictatorships. Please excuse the fact that im going Greek on you here..... DEMOCRACY literally translates & means 'MOB RULE' or 'CIVILIAN RULE' meaning that the people rule the state. USA isn't a democracy seeing as the ruling two parties have very little ideological difference between them and Also the fact that Bush fixes elections (florida..least we forget). THE Palestinians dont get any say in the Isreali state so its therefore not a democracy. JUST because I say it dosent make it true? well Look at the Iraqi 'REPUBLIC'...would you call it that? So just because USA and ISREAL call themselves 'Democracies' makes them so? Bush has proven himself a blatent liar on several occasions so im not taking his word for granted. Besides I have heard many people whom are Pro-Isreali's call the country a 'police state'....does this not mean authoritarian? Economics are a part of political Ideology BTW. Social and econimic policies make up an ideal.
My challenge is to you to prove me wrong! You have failed thus far.

Uhhu. No, the challenge is to prove yourself right and do it with proof - meaning sources, statistics and verifiable facts. If I wanted to prove you wrong, I'd Provate Message you, but I'm writing for other to read, not necessarily you. Like I said, let's let them decide. But I will answer a few of your tidbits:

"THE Palestinians dont get any say in the Isreali state so its therefore not a democracy."

Then they would be called Israelis, wouldn't they? Yes, yes, before you get out your neon green megaphone, let me remind you that nearly a quarter of all Israelis are Arabs (mostly Muslims) who vote and participate in the government with a number of seats in the Kenneset.



USA is a far-right wing state economically. Globalisation explains enough. It is basically Imperialism on an economic level. EG NIKE factories in south-east Asia. I am aware that the Isreali system is hugely different to the American system in terms of capitalism. But the system exists to a much lesser extent in Isreal. You have Small -Scale industries rather then large ones. Same minus the Imperalism but Including the Workers exploitation but im not gonna get into Marxism as most here havent the slightest idea what its about.

Sadly, most of the people here have a deeper understanding a personal relationship with Marxism than you can imagine from your new found cause. In fact, I'd venture to guess most people don't want to waste the time dealing with your frank and tactless naivete. Careful, there are some real rattlers in here who don't want to burn the energy it takes. In some ways you remind me of dinner.


By the Aggressive foreign policy im simply striking up simularities between the Nazi German state and the US/ISREAL states. I never mentioned IRAQ nor would I condone any of Saddams actions, most especially the use of VX-poison gas against Kurds- its simply sick. So dont twist the facts here. The US government is responsible for sanctions which killed 500,000 people (they couldnt get medical aid in Iraq due to sanctions, also Depleated Uranium was a big factor in the 6000% increase in deformed babies born since 1991.... DU comes from Abrams tanks) in Iraq (just take a look at these poor kids whose only crime was being born into a country ruled by US tyrants Uses of Depleated Uranium (http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/du/) ).

Right, because its easier to blame the Big Satan rather than to look internally and see that you live in a hole thanks to your beloved leaders grandoise schemes for Panarabism while building hundreds of mansions and attacking Kuwait and Iran (twice).


The communist party in Isreal presents no danger to the ruling party. the US communist party? Where?!? I thought your rich bankers silenced them in the 60's? The ballot box dosent always mean the party that comes out is right. Its not a party run by god to any extent. Thats why Zionism hates communism then? The Very foundation of the State.

Huh? Mishmash of ideas here that don't support each other. No, we have communists here, my aunt's husband's father is an avowed communist, member of the party and takes trips to Russia quite frequently. We just think he is a fool.


There are very few Arab democracies. Arab dictatorship has destroyed many states I agree....even though I never condoned any arab states.... nor did I condone China,Soviet Union or Iraq.......Stop putting words in my mouth.

Then we finally agree on something. It's not that you condone them, its that you attack the US and Israel voraciously while there are much worse countries, leaders and movements that don't get any attention from you. I wonder why that is? What's happening in Tibet anyway?


You mean to say that Bush & republicans, Sharon and Zionist's would tolerate a communist parties rule? Two War mongers & their cronies.... give me a break.

No, I mean to say that us, the free-thinking, individualist, citizens have no urge to join the collective, Kapish? Try some Ayn Rand for size, I'd recommend her earlier works such as Anthem as a start. Sheesh, try Orwell's Animal Farm, he was a leftist and still understood that COMMUNISM IS A MISERABLE FAILURE. And like (my favorite poster) Medio mentions, the only successful movement/revolution in the last 100 years was Zionism, so jealousy can not be ruled out.


Again I never mentioned Arab states nor do I support what they do.

Ok.


The UN defines Clearly that racism is:
"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life." BTW 'Nationalistic descrimination'? If the Zionist government recognised their right to nationallity they'd be independant.... Nationalistic descrimination is also covered by the Un charter concerning racism.
Would this not apply to the Palestinians?

Because they are the UN's own refugees. Ask the UN why they've granted them permanent status as that. They are not citizens of Israel, and neither am I, so I'm not expecting anything.


If Facism didn't imply private ownership then why would the Agnelli Family (owners of Fiat) Support Mussolini & make huge profits untill he deservedly got caught & was hung off a lampost by Communist guerilla's?

What the hell do they have to do with anything. You are going to use one example for justofication? You'll need to do better than that.


Hitler hated the jews because of their Class & wealthy standing (the ones that he was concerned about anyway, I in no way say that all jews are rich).
Of course Hertzl's definitions were not anti-jewish but exactly match all other elements.... Stop pretending you dont understand in order to twist my words.

No, I really fail to see the comparison. Apples and Oranges guy.


Check it out for yourself then.... dont take my word for it. Check all my info out. Im well reserched. Im still waiting for your more 'prolific' members to prove me wrong.

What research? One link? An anti-American dish rag? That's all you got?

[Gilgamesh]

WHERE TO START? You'll do us all a favor had never started.


Lets start with your racist insults.
Firstly you say 'Falluga, have another Guiness and leave us alone. ' As you can see, I don't care enough to spell your national bear, or a certain dust bowl in Iraq, where Arabs committed terrible crimes against humanity and each other. What racsit about wishing you gone?


Even though you cant spell 'Fallujah' nor 'Guinness' you insult where I am from & my nationality.....thats full blown racist,Id be banned for less than that. you'll get banned as soon as Minusthejihad is done playing with you. You are his favorit toy mouse.


Im sorry that you need to resort to insults. Insults are fun. You are a funny person, easy to insult or scorn too without guitly feelings.


Then you proceed to call us 'buggers'? Thats Pushing it. But, I will not drop myself to your lack of Intellectual standing. I don't get much to play with British words... rarely I get to say to people "who sod they are" and what a "buggery mess" they have done...


I am quite friendly with a Jewish Marxists & Isreal has a labour party.Israel labour party, splitted, disolved and greatly weakened the communists in Israel. Currently, the Communist party in Israel is only a front for a full fladge Arab facist Nasserist party. If you support Arab facists who abuse women and hold racist views based on twisted Islamist religion, how does that makes you a leftie?

I don't particularly like people who support the mass murder of my people. I cause me to resent them a little.


It was IRA & PLO co-operation that tarnished Irish - Isreali relations despite the fact the IRA is an illegal organisation Which Irish people do not condone on a large scale, so you basically accuse every Irish person of being involved in terrorist activities...yet another racial remark. Yeah! You are a prime proof for my claim at you. Although I admit a certain contradiction with Irish drinking habbits. Drunk men cannot be good terrorists. Maybe effective wife beaters, maybe this is basis for the Irish Arab alliance. The Alliance of the wife beaters.


Ireland isn't the centre of the world? When did I say it was? Isreal is not, the world is round buddy. Ever seen a globe? I don't care about the Globe. I care about Israel, and about Jews around the world. Israel is the center of my life, and I don't care if the rest of the world get blasted to tiny little bits.


I never harassed anybody on this site, I mearly expressed an opinion and got harassed for it. You wish. You are just our excuse to say abusive words in British slang for our amusement. You aren't that important to be harassed.


Little logical debate was returned along with hoards of racism & gnorance. Have another bear. Logic isn't your turf, laddy. Leave logic to us.


Im here to hit the far-right with exactly what hurts them the most....the truth & the destruction of their ignorance. ROFL!!!... :d
Well then laddy, you fought and you won. I got converted this instant to old Marx and Mao too. ...Now what???


I have already stated that I dont condone revolutionary activities in the Name of religion if you actually know the ideology of these 'Jihadi Facists'.FACISTS!?!? Who cares what you condon or not? Arab FACISTS are the IRA and Ireland's best friends. A fact you've admitted yourself. On what basis do you call yourself a communist?


Take a look in the mirror pal, Im not insulting you, Im saying TAKE A GOOD,LONG,HARD LOOK AT THE PRINCIPLES OF FACISM & COMPARE IT TO THAT OF ZIONISM & AMERICAN CAPITALISM..... which are almost Identical. LOL!!! ... :D You have just found the most Zionist and free market supporters in the net. Enjoy!


if you actually read the full Trotsky statement you'd know he was referring to capitalism/facism....... :rolleyes:Yeah! And you are one heck of a facist. Supporter of the Arab Jihad.

[Gilgamesh]

What a basket case, is that Falluja!
Where on earth do they spawn from?
Is it time to bann him? I am done with that creature.
Minus, don't leave him hanging on the forum. Get Falluja banned once you are done with the creature.

[Mediocrates]

One of the reasons deportation is used is that its far easier legally to execute. It's much easier to throw out someone on a visa violation than it is to prosecute them criminally in a domestic court.

[Mediocrates]

As far as that other nonsense above is concerned, yes yes you hate America, capitalism, Jews, Israel, commerce......was there anything else? No? Ok thanks.

[Aviva]

Landlordism is why theres millions of Irish in america. That & the Famine. READ A BOOK!

And you need to read a book too, Fallujah, since your beliefs about Israel are based entirely on the propaganda spewed out by it's enemies. Why not become better acquainted with facts rather than making yourself a mouthpiece for anti-Semitic propaganda. Since Israel is the world's Jewish state, anti-Zionism is pretty much indistinquishable from anti-Semitism. Maybe you didn't realise that.

I suggest you read The Case For Israel by Alan Dershowitz, where much of this anti-Israel propaganda is deconstructed.

You're not the first Irishman I've met who's believed that the Palestinian Arabs have been wronged by the Jews in the same way that the Irish were wronged by the British. However when you study the true facts of history, everything doesn't fit together quite so neatly. The conflict is actually very different.

[Mediocrates]

If that poster has any cogent thesis I'd like to hear it. Otherwise it's just barking.

[Aviva]

If that poster has any cogent thesis I'd like to hear it. Otherwise it's just barking.

Faeces, maybe.

Thesis, no. ;)

[minusthejihad]

I actually put in some good time last night debunking Falluja's posts, I'd like to see him/her put in a real effort to refute my points.

[Fallujah]

Uhhu. No, the challenge is to prove yourself right and do it with proof - meaning sources, statistics and verifiable facts. If I wanted to prove you wrong, I'd Provate Message you, but I'm writing for other to read, not necessarily you. Like I said, let's let them decide. But I will answer a few of your tidbits:

:rolleyes:


Then they would be called Israelis, wouldn't they? Yes, yes, before you get out your neon green megaphone, let me remind you that nearly a quarter of all Israelis are Arabs (mostly Muslims) who vote and participate in the government with a number of seats in the Kenneset.

So?
Zionism Destroyed their right to nationhood so therfore they have a responsibility to provide for the people living in their country - Just because you have two nationallities in one country dosent make it two countries and Isreal didn't exactly give the Palestinians a Nation of their own yet...did they?


Sadly, most of the people here have a deeper understanding a personal relationship with Marxism than you can imagine from your new found cause. In fact, I'd venture to guess most people don't want to waste the time dealing with your frank and tactless naivete. Careful, there are some real rattlers in here who don't want to burn the energy it takes. In some ways you remind me of dinner.

Unlike insulting People like who blow off too much pointless steam. If people in here want to discuss Marxism with we I will be more than happy, just as long as its an unaggressive, Intellegent debate....rather unlike the Minusthejihad standard of debate.




Right, because its easier to blame the Big Satan rather than to look internally and see that you live in a hole thanks to your beloved leaders grandoise schemes for Panarabism while building hundreds of mansions and attacking Kuwait and Iran (twice).

Are u serious? Is the some malfunction with you or something? I HAVE ALREADY STATED THAT I DONT SUPPORT IRAQ.....holy .
WHOS FAULT WAS IT SO? WHY ARE THOSE KIDS DEFORMED? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU CHILDREN TURNED OUT LIKE THAT AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE US? Seriously if you dont want to answer a question dont bother.... dont you dare even condone what happened those kids. Its plain murder. Did u actually look at the link I provided?




Huh? Mishmash of ideas here that don't support each other. No, we have communists here, my aunt's husband's father is an avowed communist, member of the party and takes trips to Russia quite frequently. We just think he is a fool. Im happy to hear that. Big -up to the man.




Then we finally agree on something. It's not that you condone them, its that you attack the US and Israel voraciously while there are much worse countries, leaders and movements that don't get any attention from you. I wonder why that is? What's happening in Tibet anyway?
Because The US are a huge Imperalist power whom in my opinion must be stopped...and them and Isreal go hand in hand for example Sharons quote 'We need not fear America, We own them and they know it'.




No, I mean to say that us, the free-thinking, individualist, citizens have no urge to join the collective, Kapish? Try some Ayn Rand for size, I'd recommend her earlier works such as Anthem as a start. Sheesh, try Orwell's Animal Farm, he was a leftist and still understood that COMMUNISM IS A MISERABLE FAILURE. And like (my favorite poster) Medio mentions, the only successful movement/revolution in the last 100 years was Zionism, so jealousy can not be ruled out.

Oh god. Kapish? Sheeseh? English please. Its success dosent justify it. Its modern Facism & should be destroyed like Nazism was.


Because they are the UN's own refugees. Ask the UN why they've granted them permanent status as that. They are not citizens of Israel, and neither am I, so I'm not expecting anything.

They should be.




What the hell do they have to do with anything. You are going to use one example for justofication? You'll need to do better than that.
Where the hell is YOUR counter for it? Since when is it that Im made give more than one? Im not here to make you happy (not that there's not thousands more example's).



No, I really fail to see the comparison. Apples and Oranges guy.
No its more like To-mato, Tom-ato. Its essentially the same movement. Without the hatred of jews. Its on you to prove me otherwise. I have made my point.



What research? One link? An anti-American dish rag? That's all you got?
Im not here to provide you with lots of stats. I have invited you to check it out for yourself in order to prove me wrong. I dont look them up in the internet because im already familiar with my information before hand.

[Fallujah]

And you need to read a book too, Fallujah, since your beliefs about Israel are based entirely on the propaganda spewed out by it's enemies. Why not become better acquainted with facts rather than making yourself a mouthpiece for anti-Semitic propaganda. Since Israel is the world's Jewish state, anti-Zionism is pretty much indistinquishable from anti-Semitism. Maybe you didn't realise that.

I suggest you read The Case For Israel by Alan Dershowitz, where much of this anti-Israel propaganda is deconstructed.

You're not the first Irishman I've met who's believed that the Palestinian Arabs have been wronged by the Jews in the same way that the Irish were wronged by the British. However when you study the true facts of history, everything doesn't fit together quite so neatly. The conflict is actually very different.

I could give you a huge Reading list against that book.
IM not anti-semetic. When you zionists Are beaten you always use that phrase. You know in your hearts what the Isreali government does is wrong & even against international law in some cases. You just choose to Ignore it. like the famous Orwell quote:

'WAR is PEACE,
SLAVERY is FREEDOM,
IGNORENCE is STRENGTH'

Its not a battle of JEW'S Vs The World. Jews have peacefully co-existed with people everywhere and Are great members of society in many places. We have quite a few in my home town and they are great people whom I respect.

Zionism is Jewish National Socialism. It dosent bring in the anti-Jewish factors obviously but contains the same elements in almost every other aspect.

I do however think there is a lot of Anti-Isreali propaganda that should be destroyed but politically the Country is a Facist state that must be changed if peace is to be achieved.

I know a lot about the conflict. A lot of innocent people suffer on both sides and its a shame. But what im saying is that the Palestinians have a sacred right to fight back against Injustice. I would prefer if this could be politicaly achieved but with short-sighted people like Sharon this is almost an impossibility.

[Fallujah]

What a basket case, is that Falluja!
Where on earth do they spawn from?
Is it time to bann him? I am done with that creature.
Minus, don't leave him hanging on the forum. Get Falluja banned once you are done with the creature.

50 Million sperm! 50 million! And YOU were the quickest!?!?!

[Fallujah]

As far as that other nonsense above is concerned, yes yes you hate America, capitalism, Jews, Israel, commerce......was there anything else? No? Ok thanks.

I NEVER SAID JEWS. I have already said this before on several occasions-again a zionist sign of defeat- when he mentions anti-semetic.

[Fallujah]

I actually put in some good time last night debunking Falluja's posts, I'd like to see him/her put in a real effort to refute my points.
WHY DONT YOU REFUTE! I have on several occasions. You know our debates would actually be pretty good if it wasn't for insults.

[Fallujah]

I wont be replying to this topic any longer as it seems pointless against some peoples ignorance here.

If anybody wants to contact me over the issue's discussed please PM me.

[Mediocrates]

I NEVER SAID JEWS. I have already said this before on several occasions-again a zionist sign of defeat- when he mentions anti-semetic.

so nothing else then?

[Aviva]

I could give you a huge Reading list against that book.

Have you actually read it, though? It's a very well presented argument. Are you telling me that you don't believe that Israel has any valid point of view or right to reply against propaganda that tried to delegitimise it?


IM not anti-semetic. When you zionists Are beaten you always use that phrase.

I'm not specifically a Zionist, Fallujah - I simply believe that the Jewish people have the right to live in their ancestral homeland and have the right to protect themselves if their neighbours refuse to accept their offers of peace.


Jews have peacefully co-existed with people everywhere and Are great members of society in many places.

That's a very sad - please become better acquainted with the history of the Jews, Fallujah. They've been kicked out, threatened and massacred in just about every place they've lived over the last 2000 years, with only a few exceptions.


Zionism is Jewish National Socialism. It dosent bring in the anti-Jewish factors obviously but contains the same elements in almost every other aspect.

I do however think there is a lot of Anti-Isreali propaganda that should be destroyed but politically the Country is a Facist state that must be changed if peace is to be achieved.

What do you mean it's a fascist state? I don't understand what point you're making, seeing as Israel's a democracy. "Fascist state" is a simply a label that's meant to be offensive but doesn't actually mean anything. Why do you think anyone would want to live in Israel if it was a fascist state?


But what im saying is that the Palestinians have a sacred right to fight back against Injustice. I would prefer if this could be politicaly achieved but with short-sighted people like Sharon this is almost an impossibility.

Why do the Palestinians reject peace then? Explain to me please, Fallujah why Yasser Arafat rejected in 2000 the deal he was offered at Camp David/Taba when President Clinton tried to broker a peace. He was offered some 97% of what he'd asked for and yet he still rejected it.

Why did he reject it? Because the Palestinians don't want peace with Israel and never have done. What can Israel possibly do under those circumstances except protect itself?

Wake up, Fallujah! Good for you if you're a Libertarian; good for you if care about the oppressed of this world. Just make sure you support causes that truly are worthy rather than fall for the lies and propaganda of terrorists who want you to feel sorry for them and support their cause but don't actually have any kind of moral rectitude on their side when push comes to shove.

Israel is now withdrawing from the Gaza strip and is in effect forcing the Palestinians to put their money where their mouth is and create a state for themselves. Surely you have to see that the Palestinians want to fight Israel MORE than they want to have self-determination! Suicide bombings won't end when they have what they want because they'll have a whole new set of grievances to whine about to liberal Europeans like yourself in the hope that you'll jump up, defend their rights and fight their battles for them, rather than look at both sides of the story.

[Ariksan]

I have to find out what this Irish terrorist is smoking, must be some real heavy stuff.

[RichardP]

I have to find out what this Irish terrorist is smoking, must be some real heavy stuff.

Whatever it is, I sure don’t want anything to do with it. From what I’ve read it causes brain-rot. My brain cells are having a hard enough time these days, as is.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CACE7.htm


Josie Appleton weighs in:


In fact, Bakri's views aren't a world away from many in the liberal elite. He said that the British people were to blame for the bombs, because they had voted Blair back in, after his war on Iraq. But this is only a step on from the issue of the New Statesman that labelled the attacks 'Blair's bombs'. Faced by mutiny in his own ranks, Blair hopes that cries of 'treason' will get the troops into line. Judging by the dissenting reaction, though, this is unlikely. It's simply not possible to pretend that Bakri et al are akin to Nazi collaborators, and that Britain is lined up behind Blair's version of the national interest.

[minusthejihad]

I'll take grass over spoon fed propaganda any day, it keeps my stress down.

[minusthejihad]

So?
Zionism Destroyed their right to nationhood so therfore they have a responsibility to provide for the people living in their country - Just because you have two nationallities in one country dosent make it two countries and Isreal didn't exactly give the Palestinians a Nation of their own yet...did they?

The Palestinians ruined their chances for statehood by launching four wars with the help of their Arab Brothers including the latest Intifada when the Father of Modern Terrorism Yesir Terrorfat walked away from the negotiations table at Oslo, despite being offered 97% of their demands. He and they blwe it. There is no consilation prize for losing repeated wars that they initiated. They deserve NOTHING or better yet, they deserve what they got.

Israel has no obligation to GIVE them a state. NONE.



Unlike insulting People like who blow off too much pointless steam. If people in here want to discuss Marxism with we I will be more than happy, just as long as its an unaggressive, Intellegent debate....rather unlike the Minusthejihad standard of debate.

I doubt anyone supporting Marxism in today's day and age can be considered intelligent.



Are u serious? Is the some malfunction with you or something? I HAVE ALREADY STATED THAT I DONT SUPPORT IRAQ.....holy .
WHOS FAULT WAS IT SO? WHY ARE THOSE KIDS DEFORMED? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU CHILDREN TURNED OUT LIKE THAT AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE US? Seriously if you dont want to answer a question dont bother.... dont you dare even condone what happened those kids. Its plain murder. Did u actually look at the link I provided?

Yes, I looked at your link to propaganda. The death of Iraqi children was Saddam's fault and the fault of the other Arab countries and European countried that helped keep him in power. The US is not at fault for a UN resolution that was voted on unanimously. Ireland and Morocco are just as guilty.



Im happy to hear that. Big -up to the man.

No, he is a fool that has alienated everyone around him, turned his back on his family, and he will die a lonely old stupid man. Big ups to that.



Because The US are a huge Imperalist power whom in my opinion must be stopped...and them and Isreal go hand in hand for example Sharons quote 'We need not fear America, We own them and they know it'.

Please get me a source for that quote. Can't do? I won't be surprised. Also, you just openly admitted that the US and Israel need to be stopped whatever that means. First off, as long as people like you are trying to stop them, it will never happen. :) Second, you've just aligned yourself with my enemies. This makes you my enemy. Consider yourself warned Jihadee.



Oh god. Kapish? Sheeseh? English please. Its success dosent justify it. Its modern Facism & should be destroyed like Nazism was.

Yeah yeah. And Irish Maxists have sex with animals and the IRA stands for Irish Retards Association that worshipped Hitler and Mao. Trust me, I know, because I say so. Now disprove that Nazi!


They should be.

No they shouldn't. Let them eat sand.



Where the hell is YOUR counter for it? Since when is it that Im made give more than one? Im not here to make you happy (not that there's not thousands more example's).

Sure there are, they just don't exist nor prove anything.


No its more like To-mato, Tom-ato. Its essentially the same movement. Without the hatred of jews. Its on you to prove me otherwise. I have made my point.

Your point isn't worth diddly-squat. It's just your opinion. A poor one that doesn't make any sense nor has any historical relevance or truth it.


Im not here to provide you with lots of stats. I have invited you to check it out for yourself in order to prove me wrong. I dont look them up in the internet because im already familiar with my information before hand.

Uhhu, the ultimate Irish Marxist Jihadee cop-out if I've ever seen one. Its what all of you Irish Jihadee Marxists do every time you can't debate something. Trust me, I know!

[expat]

Depleated Uranium was a big factor in the 6000% increase in deformed babies born since 1991.... DU comes from Abrams tanks) in Iraq (just take a look at these poor kids whose only crime was being born into a country ruled by US tyrants Uses of Depleated Uranium (http://www.einswine.com/atrocities/du/) ).



It's comforting to see that you're prepared to exploit the suffering of children to try and back up a claim that is baseless. Those images have been doing the rounds for years and I've yet to see any verification of any of them as attributable to DU. Looking at the images, I doubt whether most of them are even Iraqis. If you're looking for reasons for a supposed increase in deformity, you might want to consider the noxious substances that Saddam chucked at his own people as a contributory factor. I strongly suspect however that this might not fit with your agenda.

DU munitions allow our troops to destroy enemy tanks, to devastating effect I might add. DU also forms part of the armour, which protects our tanks from attacks. You it appears would like to strip our soldiers of this protection......why am I not surprised?

[Cato]

Now to defeat mr.Irish bastard who if I were a traditionalist english imperialist trying to prove the Irish are evil stupid and unable to do anything constructive would parade as my case I will kill his arguments and prove that he richly deserves a ban from this forum for being a parrot for the stormfront white nationalist bastards.

1.Martin Luther King Jr the forefront figure of the fight against racism actually said "When people say they do not like zionists what they mean is that they do not like jews". I would not assume you are a worthless bigot because you are Irish, it is reading your posts that convinced me you were. The belief in the state of Israel is part of mainstream judaism, and there is a prayer for the state of Israel in most jewish bibles. There is no such thing as being anti-zionist but not anti-semitic. Criticizing Israel is not anti-semitism, and suggesting it is is vile. However criticism of Israel has to be reasonable, and sistained by facts, and made in order to help the greater good.

You however are only concerned with calling all Israeli Jews, and jews around the world nazis. Fortunately for you jews are not known for killing bigots, but there is a place for you in the next life you are not going to enjoy were the fires are eternally hot everywere if you persist in your bigotry.

2.The Israeli regime is not apartheid. It is a unique case of democracy.”— South African Interior Minister Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi

I am sure he knows a lot more about REAL aparthied and facism then a spoiled brat like you.

3.“There is still one other question arising out of the disaster of nations which remains unsolved to this day, and whose profound tragedy, only a Jew can comprehend. This is the African question. Just call to mind all those terrible episodes of the slave trade, of human beings who, merely because they were black, were stolen like cattle, taken prisoner, captured and sold. Their children grew up in strange lands, the objects of contempt and hostility because their complexions were different. I am not ashamed to say, though I may expose myself to ridicule for saying so, that once I have witnessed the redemption of the Jews, my people, I wish also to assist in the redemption of the Africans.” — Theodor Herz

Theodre Herzl's opinions on his goals expressed in his speeches to his fellow zionists>>>>Your racist stupid misconceptions paraded in every Arab Capital.

4.Should the United States cut off all aide to every Arab Country, should it have not sent in the US Marine Corps to help victims of the Tsunami, should the American Public not have gotten together to contribute billions of dollars for the relief effort? Should two former presidents not have lead the effort to help the Tsunami Victims?

Should the United States instead have followed the wonderful lead of Ireland and done nothing?

Should the United States have followed the exceptionally enlightened and exceedingly useful lead of the Arab World and send the girls who survived gigantic imposing Abaya Robes in order to make sure no part of their bodies could be seen instead of seeing to it that as many people could be rescued as possible?

Although the lack of support for the relief effort from Ireland is exceedingly admirable, I believe that people who would have starved, or who would have drowned without immediate aide from the United States disagree with the assertion that the United States is evil.

5.The zionist movement began in the 1880s, which is a long time before national socialism. Also when was there an independent Arab Nation called Palestine? Never. During the Zionist Movement it was part of the Ottoman Province of Syria.

6. Innocent untill proven guilty. Far from proving Israel is a facist state, you have proven yourself to be a stupid racist.

7.Stormfront White Nationalist Center has your views, again stupid bigot would you like to stand with Martin Luther King Jr or David Duke?

8.I would refute the rest of your stupidity but you are not worth the time.

Arafat decided to reject, oh all of his demands being offered to him on a silver platter at Camp David and at Taba.

You are not welcome here, and you are lucky that some members like to insult you and get a stupid rant out of you.

Oh you say you are anti-Jihad?

Well then you shouldn't be supporting the PLO which is by its own definition a Jihad.

Such facts are irrelevant though.

Finally I don't believe you that you have any jewish friends.

You are a disgrace to Irishmen, and Liberals everywere.

The zionist movement is the only national movement that did not use force to establish itself. The zionists got to the Ottoman Empire with nothing but their hands and they made the fields green, they drained Malarial Infected Swamps, Irrigated the Desert, and repopulated an area that had few people living in it, and improved the quality of life for everyone there. Which is in sharp contrast to IRA attacks on civilians everywere as long as they were British.

[RichardP]

Excellent, Cato; but Irish is incapable of grasping the truth. He dwells in is own loathsomeness and bigotry: great attempt, though.

[RoofRabbit]

Of course, human rights groups claim that in a democracy, everyone's opinion is valid.

You're right but I don't believe democracy is anything close to a good government. When you go out in the streets of my country and talk to people about right and wrong, it dosen't take long to find most people here are just plain stupid believing whatever lie some liberal democrat tells them. Most people here have the word "free" framed in their minds and expect everything to be given to them without cost. Most have no desire to earn anything. A democracy puts these people in charge since they are in the majority. Maybe that explains why the US is so screwed up now.

Side Note: I'm ProChoice, give the baby the choice!

[Fallujah]

Now to defeat mr.Irish bastard who if I were a traditionalist english imperialist trying to prove the Irish are evil stupid and unable to do anything constructive would parade as my case I will kill his arguments and prove that he richly deserves a ban from this forum for being a parrot for the stormfront white nationalist bastards.

Im a bigot? Look at yourself you insulting idiot.
I hate those s at stormfront with every ounce of passion in my body, LETS MAKE THAT CLEAR! Stupid? Evil?...how so? Your a real racist man.


1.Martin Luther King Jr the forefront figure of the fight against racism actually said "When people say they do not like zionists what they mean is that they do not like jews". I would not assume you are a worthless bigot because you are Irish, it is reading your posts that convinced me you were. The belief in the state of Israel is part of mainstream judaism, and there is a prayer for the state of Israel in most jewish bibles. There is no such thing as being anti-zionist but not anti-semitic. Criticizing Israel is not anti-semitism, and suggesting it is is vile. However criticism of Israel has to be reasonable, and sistained by facts, and made in order to help the greater good.

SO? Just because King said that makes it 100% true?
Why then are you constantly refering to my nationallity all the time. Its quite obviously a racial issue for you, making you no better than those white trash Neo-Nazi's. Zionist politics are far-right and imperialist-Both I staunchly oppose. I have jewish friends who hate these factors greatly but they dont call me a bigot...hmmmmmmm? So im not in any way allowed to criticise Isreal without being 'anti-semetic'?


You however are only concerned with calling all Israeli Jews, and jews around the world nazis. Fortunately for you jews are not known for killing bigots, but there is a place for you in the next life you are not going to enjoy were the fires are eternally hot everywere if you persist in your bigotry. WHEN DID I SAY 'ALL ISREALI'S ARE JEWS'? fires? Im not religious nor a bigot thanks.


2.The Israeli regime is not apartheid. It is a unique case of democracy.”— South African Interior Minister Chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi SO? A quote? From the Interior Minister of a capitalist country.


I am sure he knows a lot more about REAL aparthied and facism then a spoiled brat like you. Im from a working-class background. Im not exactly up to my neck in cash neither, so I ask you to stop your retarded assumptions.


3.“There is still one other question arising out of the disaster of nations which remains unsolved to this day, and whose profound tragedy, only a Jew can comprehend. This is the African question. Just call to mind all those terrible episodes of the slave trade, of human beings who, merely because they were black, were stolen like cattle, taken prisoner, captured and sold. Their children grew up in strange lands, the objects of contempt and hostility because their complexions were different. I am not ashamed to say, though I may expose myself to ridicule for saying so, that once I have witnessed the redemption of the Jews, my people, I wish also to assist in the redemption of the Africans.” — Theodor Herz

Thats actually quite funny seeing as The British had agreed to Hertzl's plan to settle Jews in Uganda! Just think for a moment: The British were willing to let the Jews settle in Uganda. The arrogance of this is overwhelming. It is like me offering to a homeless person the spare room in a neighbour's house a few blocs away. This is typical of the imperialist's attitude at the time.




Theodre Herzl's opinions on his goals expressed in his speeches to his fellow zionists>>>>Your racist stupid misconceptions paraded in every Arab Capital.
He was a bare-bone imperialist.Herzl's Zionism is that of superiority, of complete disregard for the people that were living in Palestine. He did not regard them as equals, but as inferiors to be cheated and bamboozled, as this quote from his diary written in 1895 proves: "We must expropriate gently the private property on the state assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly. Let the owners of the immoveable property believe that they are cheating us, selling us things for more than they are worth. But we are not going to sell them anything back". This attitude is still today the basis of the Zionist state, whose final aim is to have a Palestine free of Palestinians - only today we call this "ethnic cleansing".


4.Should the United States cut off all aide to every Arab Country, should it have not sent in the US Marine Corps to help victims of the Tsunami, should the American Public not have gotten together to contribute billions of dollars for the relief effort? Should two former presidents not have lead the effort to help the Tsunami Victims? Im not going against any humanitarian aspects here-CLARIFY THAT! I would also state that it is not possible to cut off aid to every Arab country as the Saudi Government have a 8% stake in the US economy. IF they pulled this money out tomorrow the economy would lose its feet.


Should the United States instead have followed the wonderful lead of Ireland and done nothing? I openly protest many actions of my government.....So what your stupid little point? Im not a nationalist.


Should the United States have followed the exceptionally enlightened and exceedingly useful lead of the Arab World and send the girls who survived gigantic imposing Abaya Robes in order to make sure no part of their bodies could be seen instead of seeing to it that as many people could be rescued as possible?
If you actually opened your eyes and read what I wrote earlier you would clearly see that I dont support any Arab nations in their present form.


Although the lack of support for the relief effort from Ireland is exceedingly admirable, I believe that people who would have starved, or who would have drowned without immediate aide from the United States disagree with the assertion that the United States is evil.
Considering the size, Finance capabilities and population you would see that Ireland put a lot of volunteer workers/Army and finance into the Tsunami relief. Currently there are nationwide volunteer's as well as charity groups helping to ease the famine in Niger. We contributed more money per head of population than anybody else in lots of relief efforts over the last 20 year's. So do your homework first.


5.The zionist movement began in the 1880s, which is a long time before national socialism. Also when was there an independent Arab Nation called Palestine? Never. During the Zionist Movement it was part of the Ottoman Province of Syria. This is irrelevant. It was national socialism essentially. Hitler took many of his idea's from Hertzl only he called his imperalist theory Grossdeutchland & lebensaurn. Palestine existed under different rulers for many years. Its irrelevant who ruled them or if they were independant but the fact of the matter is they were THERE!


6. Innocent untill proven guilty. Far from proving Israel is a facist state, you have proven yourself to be a stupid racist. You cant make statements like that without refuting them.


7.Stormfront White Nationalist Center has your views, again stupid bigot would you like to stand with Martin Luther King Jr or David Duke? David Duke needs a bullet in his ing skull. I have made my points clear on my anti-Nazi standing already. I've stated also that im a Marxist and Im of the completely opposite end of the political line to the likes of Duke.


8.I would refute the rest of your stupidity but you are not worth the time. What stupidity? Im really shaking in my boots from your lack of proper replies.


Arafat decided to reject, oh all of his demands being offered to him on a silver platter at Camp David and at Taba.

You are not welcome here, and you are lucky that some members like to insult you and get a stupid rant out of you. Im here to have a little bit of a debate...nothing more. those insulting idiots, Im not bothered in the least.


Oh you say you are anti-Jihad?

Well then you shouldn't be supporting the PLO which is by its own definition a Jihad. How exactly is the PLO religiously motivated?


Such facts are irrelevant though.

Finally I don't believe you that you have any jewish friends.
I know quite a few jews whom I frequently chat to every now and again and whom share my own political beliefs. Believe what you want. I mean look at Leon Trotsky-A Hardline Jewish Anti-Capitalist who despised imperalism.


You are a disgrace to Irishmen, and Liberals everywere. I never said im a liberal.


The zionist movement is the only national movement that did not use force to establish itself. The zionists got to the Ottoman Empire with nothing but their hands and they made the fields green, they drained Malarial Infected Swamps, Irrigated the Desert, and repopulated an area that had few people living in it, and improved the quality of life for everyone there. Which is in sharp contrast to IRA attacks on civilians everywere as long as they were British.
The IRA have never attacked people because they're British. Give me one such instance? I love the way you think you know everything about Ireland without ever really paying attention to anything outside your narrow-minded opinion.

[Gilgamesh]

Cato
There is no logic in even talking to a self proclaimed "Communists" whose best "Jewish" friends are Marxists...

Reason is not part of their mind. Unless you debate in order to work up your own arguments, there is no way to waste time convince or educate a mindless creature like Faluja, to make it see indepth things or seperate him from his anti semetic facist Arab's porpaganda life line, that think for him. All he does is cut and paste, and I don't suppose you can out match Indymedia or Intifadah online. Your efforts a futile. It's like talking to trees and stones.

All we left to do, is wait for the moderators to bann this creature Faluja.

BTW, last I know, Arab propaganda do not contain any breathing instructions. I wonder how Faluja stays alive... Perhaps the reflex thing...

I wish sombody would hack into Arab propaganda sites and write something like "Now stop breathing and think about Marx and Arafat for as long as you can..." Will this do that job? Imagion this....

[Gilgamesh]

You're right but I don't believe democracy is anything close to a good government. When you go out in the streets of my country and talk to people about right and wrong, it dosen't take long to find most people here are just plain stupid believing whatever lie some liberal democrat tells them. Most people here have the word "free" framed in their minds and expect everything to be given to them without cost. Most have no desire to earn anything. A democracy puts these people in charge since they are in the majority. Maybe that explains why the US is so screwed up now. Democracy is a as strong as the moral fiber and intelligence of its participance. Or else it can hastly vibrate between Oligarchy and Ararchism.

Democracy can be ballanced out by setting up several houses of nobles, people of great integrity and known for their wisdom. A tight group with a veto power similar to that of the high court. With next to life long appointment. People who are accepted to be people of high merit... but they tend to become Aristocrates or Oligarch. Last I hear, the average American do not trust and respect his high court of law, any more then the average Israeli.

Anciant Judea was not a democracy. We had a highly complex goverment: A King and his nobles and national army, presented one elite. A High Prist and his court were another independent elite, that also worked as the bank and the high court. The high prist may have had his own gaurd. And there was the Senate (the Elders), the tribal leaders of the people, who may have been elected somehow. Any decision was a result of a consignment of all three. When consignment was lacking, tragedies happen in bundles. (Like the split from a united kingdon into two, Judea and Israel).

The Prophets were holy men that rose from the common people class, enjoyed popular support and caused a majore headace to everybody else. Politicly, Prophets were always a majore force to be reckonned with.


Side Note: I'm ProChoice, give the baby the choice!Being a Jew, and outside American political system, my views are different from BOTH parties for that debate.

1. Judaism allows abortion within the first 40 days of the pregnancy. Life is defined by the function of the heart, which doesn't appear before.
2. Abortion at any stage is demanded if it is vital to save the pregnant woman life.
3. Abortion for any reason, other then matters of life & death, is forbiden.
4. Abortion can not be stopped by legal procedures, any more then the consumption of alcohol or Tabacco. People will drink and smoke regaurdless of what the law says. Better to limit the demage illegal operation might cause to young women.
5. Proper laws and budgets for orphans and abondon children can and should limit the problem of abortion for economic reasons. Orphans and abondon Children should be the real flag of the ProLife campaigners, where they should gain more public support.

The problem in America (and Israel) on this issue, is inteligence, education of the public, the self responsibility of people (or lack of it).

The way to solve the debate is to solve the need for abortion, which is solving irresponsibilities and little accountablities. Responsible people do not come to need abortions.

[Aviva]

Responsible people do not come to need abortions.

That's very harsh - what about cases of rape?

[Gilgamesh]

That's very harsh - what about cases of rape?
That a whole different stroy, where there is a lot of contraversy.

On the bottom line, the baby is not responsible or guilty in any why for the actions of his father. The mother, on the other hand, is not expected to raise such a child her self. There maybe institutions for this.

But as I said, there is a lot of contraversy and I never attempted to touch this point.

[Aviva]

That a whole different stroy, where there is a lot of contraversy.

On the bottom line, the baby is not responsible or guilty in any why for the actions of his father. The mother, on the other hand, is not expected to raise such a child her self. There maybe institutions for this.

But as I said, there is a lot of contraversy and I never attempted to touch this point.

Since women actually aren't considered to be baby machines any more, maybe you should think about the circumstances around pregnancies that are terminated rather than place a blanket condemnation on the "irresponsibility" of all unplanned ones. It's not all quite as simple as you make out.

Rape isn't a "whole different story" as you put it - it's the reason why lots of women would understandably choose to end their pregnancy.

There are so many different reasons why women decide upon terminations. How and why they come to that choice really is their business - not ours.

[Gilgamesh]

Since women actually aren't considered to be baby machines any more, maybe you should think about the circumstances around pregnancies that are terminated rather than place a blanket condemnation on the "irresponsibility" of all unplanned ones. It's not all quite as simple as you make out.

Rape isn't a "whole different story" as you put it - it's the reason why lots of women would understandably choose to end their pregnancy.

There are so many different reasons why women decide upon terminations. How and why they come to that choice really is their business - not ours.
I am sorry if I created the impression I think only the women are guilty of modern irresponsibilies.

I have no doubt that being a victim of crime is not under the defenition of irresponsibility. It is stupid to assume I ment otherwise.

By irresonsibility I ment obviously child parents. When children are having babies, which is one of the largest reasons for abortions. The other is economic or health reasons.

[Cato]

What Fallujah just said confirmed my original statement.

If I were an English Lord who was tasked by the government with running a propaganda campaign aimed at convincing English Scottish and Welsh people that the Irish are a race of uncivilized barbarians without any trace of intelligence and I know about Fallujah I would just use him and make the claim that all Irishmen are like him.

It certainly would have convinced the Britons beyond a reasonable doubt.

I feel like upgrading my debate experience, albiet by facing of with a spoiled brat who would have been a gift to English Propagandaists during the occupation of Ireland.

1.By agreeing with the people at Stormfront you have proven you do not hate them. You can not possibly hate people who you agree with, and you could visit their website for yourself they agree with you. So again you have a choice David Duke or Martin Luther King Jr?

2."SO? Just because King said that makes it 100% true?
Why then are you constantly refering to my nationallity all the time. Its quite obviously a racial issue for you, making you no better than those white trash Neo-Nazi's."

What Martin Luther King Jr said is corret, when people go anti-zionist they are just trying to hide their anti-semitism, and doing a horrible job at it. I refer to your Irish Nationality to remind the good people who are reading your racist garbage that most Irishmen are good decent people who would be revolted by your racist ignorant and backwards views. I love the Emerald Isle, and so am reminding the good readers that most people from the Emerald Isle are not stupid bigots like you.

3.You called zionism the same as nazism, sorry but you did call all Israeli Jews, and the vast majority of jews around the world nazis. In any form of debate which you claim to be here to do, although your mindless insults tell another tale, statements can not be taken back.

4. Well Capitalism produced great things, while Marxism produced the Gulags were millions of people were murdered by Stalin and his successors. The fact that a great hero in the struggle against racism, and a very impressive man who despite the severe opression of his people did not resort to violence is for businessess developing does not discredit him. If the IRA showed the same restraint that he and his colleagues did thousands of English Civilians who were put into an early grave would still be alive today.

5. Stop exxagerating your problems. Compared to people that have suffered under the ultimate aparthied, South Africa during the Aparthied Regime have suffered a lot more then you have, and their first hand encounter with racism is something you will never see.

6. You forgot the part were Theodre Hertzl and the Zionist Council rejected the British Offer of handing over Uganda because they did not want to replay the situation in South Africa. Theodre Hertzl said no, and so did his followers to rulling Uganda.

7.You also forgot the part were Muslims settled in Uganda as rulers in place of the jews and were extremely opressive to the African Population there.

8.“Colonialism means living by exploiting others,” Yehoshofat Harkabi has written. “But what could be further from colonialism than the idealism of city-dwelling Jews who strive to become farmers and laborers and to live by their own work?”

As David Ben-Gurion told Palestinian nationalist Musa Alami in 1934:

We do not want to create a situation like that which exists in South Africa, where the whites are the owners and rulers, and the blacks are the workers. If we do not do all kinds of work, easy and hard, skilled and unskilled, if we become merely landlords, then this will not be our homeland.

Also that quote was a reference to the Fellahin Tenant Farmers. As zionists bought the land they were renting, there was a fear that the jewish farmers would not work the land themselves. The sollution was to try and secure the Fallahin a job in a different area, and to give some compensation. Sorry but your misquoting is not going to work here.

Imperialism is living by exploiting others. Zionism means believing in the existence of the State of Israel, believing that the state of Israel must be a democracy with equal rights for all of its people, and that the jews in Israel must work the land, or get other jobs and live there permanently (Which is just what they did, 30% of the flowers on the European Market come from Israel, and Israel's number one exploit is not flowers, Israel's number one export is medical equiptment). Zionism is not imperialism.

Believing that the jews should acquire land that they would work themselves, and live on in peace while setting up a democracy, and wanting to help black people after that was done is a pretty funny way of being an imperialist. Naturally to a bigot like yourself such facts are totally irrelevant.

9.18% of Israel's population is Palestinian. They enjoy full citizenship and the exact same rights as their jewish counterparts. Just like Theodre Hertzl apparently had a funny concept of imperialism, he must have also been confused on what ethnic cleansing was.

10. It is easily possible for congress to pull out all economic aide to Arab and Muslim Countries, 2/3 vote in congress or 3/4 vote in Senate would do.

11. You agree with the Arab Extremists about jews and zionism. That means you are not against them because to be against them you must actually disagree with them.

12. Such as the emergency bomb the Brits Campaign which saved thousands of Englishmen, and Northern Irish Protestants from dull lives.

13. Well you protest the US government, and particularly hate the one which ordered the relief effort I mentioned, so that means you disagree with it's actions.

14. Please recite the definition of Intifada? Sheeheda (SP), and other things the PLO has declared itself, it's members, and it's goals as. I don't know what I should insult the stupid question you just asked or the massive ignorance behind it. I guess I should read A guide to the Perplexed by Maimonedes to figure it out, the way David Ben Gurion did after he spent all of his spare time learning Arabis.

15. Leon Trotsky is dead, he was killed by Stalins henchmen. Carl Marx is dead as well so he doesn't count either.

16. If you are on the opposite end of the political spectrum as David Duke why is it you agree with him on what we are talking about, while strongly disagreeing with Martin Luther King jr?

17.Sorry I was wrong to assume you are a liberal, but I stand by the statement that you are a disgrace to Irishmen everywere.

18.The IRA had the combination of wanting to kill people for being British, and for being protestant, so yes they did kill civilians for being British.

Gilgamesh I am arguing with him in order so people who happen to stumble to this forum don't believe what he says.

[4peace]

[.. An extreme Muslim cleric whose family have been living on benefits in Britain for 20 years says it would not be 'fair' to deport him.

Speaking after the Prime Minister announced his clampdown, father-of-seven Sheik Omar Bakri said: "I have wives, children, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law. It would be hard on my family if I was deported." ..]

Deportation not fair! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=358382&in_page_id=1770&ct=5)

A few recent quotes from Sheik Omar Bakri, a father of 7 and on welfare :

1) Defending the Madrid mass-murders, he told young British Muslims, some as young as ten, that they must "kill and be killed" for Islam; that "suicide bombers would be guaranteed a place in paradise"; and even that they should consider "flying a plane into 10 Downing Street".

2) "Prepare as much as you can from strength and from force to terrorise - because terrorism it is part of Islam."

3) "Martyrdom is what you want. Do the effort. Clear your intention. Go forward, never look backwards. Make sure you have nothing left behind you to think about or cry for and fight in the name of Allah."

4) "So what is self sacrifice operation? It's got to be the following scenario. Somebody he fly aeroplane and he decide to land the aeroplane over 10 Downing Street, for example, or over the White House. This is a form of self-sacrifice operation."

* source: The BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2004/04_april/05/suicide_bombers.shtml)

The poor guy, shouldn't the evil West have mercy and compassion?
....sniff...


Well thats a shame. Run as much terror as you like back home,let your familysuffer....they will have the same views as you!!

[NewsGuy]

Well thats a shame. Run as much terror as you like back home,let your familysuffer....they will have the same views as you!!

4peace, are you a teenager by any chance?

This forum is really intended for grownups.

[4peace]

4peace, are you a teenager by any chance?

This forum is really intended for grownups.


No just very fustrated this guy lives here doesn't work incase it helps the British economy...gets benefits...the harder you work the less care you get! Look though I did what a fundamentalist did ranted hatred. Why is itunfair for him to be deported?