The unfortunate, Terrible coming of the "Age of Islam ".

[Mr. Pumps]

Let just think...

There are dozens of Muslims states in the world.

Saudi Arabia is disappearing as a trusted U.S ally.

India has failed to put down the Kashmiri revolt even with 750,000 troops and the few thousand "Mujahideen" have score unexpected shocking successes. Even worst India's population is made up of %20 Muslims, a truely potential Civil war nightmare.

Russia is lossing men everyday in Chechnya and a second pullout would be a absolute distaster for the Unity and existence of the Russian state. One pullout in 1996 was a loss, but another pullout would be fatal as there are tens of millions of Muslims with itchy trigger fingers wait to pull their land out of the grasp of Moscow and the so-called "Federation" .

Islamic Muslims are building as a power base in many flagship european nations, i.e France, UK, Germany.

The U.S is going to rattle a sabre at all Muslim states forever . Until Blacks and Hispanic Replace the White people as most numerous people.

The Number of Muslims is keeps growing and growing until it outnumbers all other religions.

Europeans of the old White christian guard try to vote in right wing national leaders to have them start a "Muslim Holocaust", But that option is to late in coming to be effective now. Western Europe is now effective a shell waiting to die out.

The palestinins have launched some of the deadliest suicide Bombings in Israeli History, and no matter in any situation the Palestinians have one goal: the destruction of Israel. They can get the keys to Jerusulem and all their so-called "Land" but the reality is the suicide bombers and their backers will not stop even if consessions are made at this point. The only solution is crush them with force.... nothing else.

Africa is a breeding ground for Muslim converters and as Muslims move in, Christians are gone.

[L@mplighterM]

You got it !

[Mr. Pumps]

Well, 20 Million jews in the world really does'nt create the monster the Catholic Church says. Here is how it goes, Islam violently hates all religions esp. Judiaism and Christianity, Jews defend themselves from Islam, Christianity become critical of the Jews. Well...boy... pick on the little insignificant-in-numbers guy because you cannot face you really enemy face to face. It is easier for some American Christian college kid to say "I hate the Jews" or "Death to Israel" than "I hated Muslims" and "Death to the Islamic world'. As a Christian man I am appalled by this total idiotcy. The Jews are not the problem, they are not the 1.7 Billion religion with 100 million Demented untolerlent militant followers. And surethey maybe are rich and have influence alittle over the numbers in America, but I rather have 6-7 million harmless co-existing Jewish people than millions of unnerving Muslims on this land anyday of the bloody week. But concentrating their hating on a small completely harmless , peaceful minority and not paying attention or purposely ingnoring the Islamic darkness that surrounds them, Christians are hopeless and fated to help demise themselves. ****ing Idiots!.

[Mr. Pumps]

Or another tactic, how about Israeli scientists create the most most potent biological weapon ever known and threaten to use it if attack by anyone.

[Ezra]

Mr. Pumps,

You are talking as if we were 1000 years ago where the strength of a nation is measured by its number. It's true that Muslims are now over 1 billion persons. However, have a closer look. Muslim nations are:
1) The poorest nations on earth.
2) The most dictatorian nations.
3) The most barbaric nations.
4) The least technological advanced.

If you lived in a Muslim nation, you would have known that not in another 500 years this nations would be consider a civilized nation. Even the most stable Islamic nations are setting on a huge volcano of waiting-to-blow civil wars. Just wait until the oil dries from their land. I'll try to get you a link form the CIA about the status of Islamic world after 50 years.

[elke]

Don't dis "dictatorial" and "barbaric", Ezra. They may not have the capacity to do much damage in one swoop; but they are quite capable of wreaking havoc on the civilized world piecemeal.

[Mr. Pumps]

Originally posted by Ezra
Mr. Pumps,

You are talking as if we were 1000 years ago where the strength of a nation is measured by its number. It's true that Muslims are now over 1 billion persons. However, have a closer look. Muslim nations are:
1) The poorest nations on earth.
2) The most dictatorian nations.
3) The most barbaric nations.
4) The least technological advanced.



Well, Why is the Christian and Athiest Western World increasing their hatred toward the Jewish populations when the Muslims are the ones who are the hostile onesv agianst them?.

During the Crusades, the Western world had the ability to repel off a Muslim agression. But now the Christians are afraid to say directly even, that Islam is the enemy which it clearly is. Instead, they say a war on Terror and put Muslim nations on a hitlist. It seems to me that, Hatred of Jew are uses as a excuse by the shaken populations of Western countries to use as a scapegoat to justify the lack off will to face the potential future Islamic enemy.

I think Western Citizens and leaders nation should show total solidary with Israel at this moment and quit this pathetic Anti-semitic non-sense. Know who your real enemy is and focus on the defeat on that enemy or even the the most poorest, Barbaric, Technogically primitive enemy could come back and haunt you. I give praise the Die-Hard SLA fighters and the one who went over to the enemy are pieces of **** and are enemies of all non-Islamic religions.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by elke
Don't dis "dictatorial" and "barbaric", Ezra. They may not have the capacity to do much damage in one swoop; but they are quite capable of wreaking havoc on the civilized world piecemeal.

Elke,

These countries are VERY fragile from inside. They can't make any global effect except on an individual-basis (i.e. sending a suicide bomber to a civilized country and that's it, for example).

[Ezra]

Mr. Pumps,

The very short answer is that in CNN a week ago they said the title "War on Terrorist" should be changed to the "War of Islamists"..

A more detailed reply will follow soon.

[Mr. Pumps]

No, that is not it. The increase in the Hatred of jews is to cover up the fact that facing 1.7 Billion Muslims in a conflict by declaring a outright war on Islam could not be stomached by many Westerners as the number is so much to take in at once. So they increase hate and Racism of smaller, more easily targetted groups minorities like Sikhs and Jews.

I as a Christian (although non-practicing) I don't get that at all. If Islam threatens us, why blame innocent other religions who are feeling the effects of Islam too. We should be resolute and determine agianst the one true foe and don't show weakness by sidelining our main goal of defeating the Terror and it's religion. As a Christian, if that is what you are, should thinking the same way.

[L@mplighterM]

Muslim Man Sentenced 56 Months For Hate Crime
Yahoo News | 6/12/02




LOS ANGELES - A Muslim fundamentalist was sentenced to nearly five years in state prison for vandalizing religious statues at a Roman Catholic church and stealing hundreds of magazines from a mosque.

Emad Ibrahim Saad, 35, of Los Angeles, was sentenced Tuesday to 56 months in prison for vandalism, theft and hate crimes. Saad fired several attorneys and insisted on representing himself at his trial. However, on the last day of the trial, he refused to leave his jail cell and show up for court.

Prosecutors said Saad decapitated a Virgin Mary statue, cut off the hand of a statue of Saint Rita and hauled away another statue of Father Junipero Serra — all at St. Augustine Church and School in Culver City on Oct. 28.

The leaders of the King Fahd mosque in Culver City immediately notified police and apologized to the church, saying Saad's acts were an attempt to cause a rift between the two houses of worship.

Muslim magazines were found at various entrances to the Catholic church that had fliers which read, "Allah is the only true God." Saad had stolen up to 2,000 copies of the magazine from the Masjid as-Salaam mosque in Los Angeles

It was estimated that there was about dlrs 15,000 worth of damage done at St. Augustine's.

The Junipero Serra statue has been replaced by the William Hannon Foundation, and a new Virgin Mary statue, paid for by contributions by students and others, is on order, said Norman Mazey, the school's principal.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020612/ap_wo_en_ge/us_church_vandalism_1

[elke]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM

The Junipero Serra statue has been replaced by the William Hannon Foundation, and a new Virgin Mary statue, paid for by contributions by students and others, is on order, said Norman Mazey, the school's principal.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020612/ap_wo_en_ge/us_church_vandalism_1

??? Wouldn't it have been logical for the King Fahd mosque to have paid for the statues? As a goodwill gesture, if nothing else? :confused:

[Mr. Pumps]

That article just reinforces what I said. Don't confront Muslims..no that would be bad and dangerous.... so pick on Jews and Sikhs.

[Mr. Pumps]

These countries are VERY fragile from inside. They can't make any global effect except on an individual-basis (i.e. sending a suicide bomber to a civilized country and that's it, for example).

Sorry, but it it includes more than Suicide bombers attack a "Advanced""Civilized" society

Well, the west styles itself on being "Civilized" as a computer screen reading, Textbook following society and Islam as being "Primitive.

Yet, that"Primitive" society has lauched some devastating, innovative, and at times downright ingenious attacks agianst Western "Advanced"Military and civilain targets. Leaving the "Advanced" West completely dumdfounded.

The attack of the U.S.S Cole is one example. A $1 U.S "advanced" destroyed armed with all the latest weaponry, disabled by a Digy full of Explosives costing maybe a few thousand dollars in Yemen.

"Primitive" Palestinians diables two of Israel's best military high- tech Machines, the $3 million Merkava-3 Tank with explosives agian costing peanuts.

Another example, the supposed "Advanced" multimillion dollar UH-60 Blackhawk getting shot down in Somalia with "Primitive" RPG-7, costing a couple of hundred dollars, manned by "Primitive" Muslims

If this society is so "advanced", some attack costing a few thousand dollars, agianst forms of the "Advanced" Western technology and superiority would'nt created the shocking successes it does.

It seems kind of pointless to stick with that "Primitive" Society verses "Civilized"society to justify how a incredibly expense Weapon Systems of the "Advanced" Western society can be disabled by a attack costing a few thousand dollars.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Ezra
Just wait until the oil dries from their land. I'll try to get you a link form the CIA about the status of Islamic world after 50 years. Please do! I would be very interested in reading it.

[Mediocrates]

If this society is so "advanced", some attack costing a few thousand dollars, agianst forms of the "Advanced" Western technology and superiority would'nt created the shocking successes it does.


Because we flatter ourselves with our restraint. That, and our technology is not well suited to fight a door to door dirty urban war.

I'm familiar with the "Black Hawk Down" story too. The casualties were US:19 KIA, Somalians:1000+ KIA. And if the story is accurate we showed restraint there too.

That's a very good case study in the problems accociated with overloading the mission. We were there ostensibly to help feed people but then decided that the only way to do that was to topple the warlord government. Unfortunately we tried to do it the resources and methods we had to feed people. But it could have been easily accomplished with ZERO American casualties and far fewer than 1000+ Somalian dead by using the right tools.

Similarly the problems we see, for example with the USS Cole are examples of blurring the distinction among foreign policy, American policy and military policy. The Cole was attacked because the US didn't want to be seen as a bully comandeering Yemeni ports so we decided to use markedly less security. Once that occurs, if there is a threat, the forces on the ground need to wait to get permission through very long chains of command that leap out of the military altogether into political channels. The result is obvious.

If the US fought the war that it is capable of fighting on purely military foundations then the Islamic/Arab/Fundamentalist world is a toothless threat.

[Mr. Pumps]

Yeah I guess that is correct, but you don't mention how many of those +1000 Somail casualities were civilians, as like Afganistan were the Pentagon says Muslims Militants were destroyed by aircraft bombs only for that info to be completely false as photos show dead childern and destroyed concrete houses in villages.

I am for a war to find the People who did 9/11, but am agianst a war of sadistic revenge.

[Mediocrates]

In urban and unstructured warfare or in situations like Iraq where the government uses its own people as human shields not only is it hard to tell the difference, it's hard to keep them apart. Who's to say that in Mogidishu the warlords didn't put all sorts of people in the streets to fire from behind?

[Mr. Pumps]

I think at times we hit orselves over the head with a baseball bat.

George Bush Jr. Claims the American use of Special forces and arrcraft bombs are not aimed at Muslim nations. Yet he uses the word "Crusade" like a idiot.

[elke]

Originally posted by Mr. Pumps
I think at times we hit orselves over the head with a baseball bat.

George Bush Jr. Claims the American use of Special forces and arrcraft bombs are not aimed at Muslim nations. Yet he uses the word "Crusade" like a idiot.

IMHO, that's a good assessment of what happened with that "Crusade" comment - "hit ourselves over the head with a baseball bat".

However, someone should explain to the offended parties that the Western use of the word "Crusade" corresponds to the Muslim use of the word "Jihad": if Jihad means "an internal struggle of good vs. evil", then Crusade is the same. If, on the other hand, Jihad IS a Holy War, then Crusade is also that.

[Mediocrates]

Someone should explain to them that people not actually living in the bronze age don't go to war over one guy uttering the word 'Crusade'. Who the **** do they think they are? Some Mafia Dons defending the honor of their wives?


Someone should explain to them we take umbrage when 3000 of us get slaughtered for the crime of being white collar workers; something that in and of itself is as alien to the Arab world as going to Mars is to me.


I say we carve the word CRUSADE in letters 10 miles long and 200 feet deep in the land formerly called 'Mecca'.

[Mediocrates]

you are spelling challenged

[Mr. Pumps]

Originally posted by trainspotter18
You guys are so full of hatred and fear it disgusts me.

Some Jews in this forum are complaining that Christians shouldn't be hating them, but muslims instead.

Some people in this thread are hoping for a muslim holocaust..

Let me remind you what a holocaust is like;

people, human beings, who feel pain, who have families, they are herded up, and systematically killed. They plead for their lives, but the society at that point is so consumed by hate and fear, and has dehumanized the group to such a degree, that no plea for mercy works. Everyone, regardless of their beliefs, regardless of their age, is slaughtered, because they belong to a specific ethnic group. I am utterly disgusted at some of u.



This thread has shown me how pure evil works.

Oh! stop your whining!

Thanks to Sept. 11th, 2001. All the Christians, Jews and Hindus will fight the most fearsome war agianst Islam since the Battle of lepanto in 1571.

[cerulean]

How appropriate you should post a German propaganda piece about Jews, considering how popular Hitler and Nazism is among Arabs currently.

[Mr. Pumps]

Can a 20+million worldwide Jewish population can do all the dasterly things your written Nazi **** brings up.

You honestly think the small guy poses a bigger threat then the 1.2billion dynamo Religion, with 15+% percent fanatical maniacs, you have got to be joking.

You remind me Transpotter of the Americans who attacked Sikhs after 9/11, until you known who the real enemy is do assume that all religious minorities are culprits, that is dumb. Oh! just because a guy wears a turbine he is evil, well Sikhism has NOTHING to do with Islam.

You have Buddha quoted, lets kill Buddhists for they are respondsible for 9/11 too.........................NOT!.

[Mr. Pumps]

Well I have seen a Muslim women covered up to the brime and me prefering brittney spears revealing outfits on women(hey I am only 21) , I felt ashame that such a women would continue to dress so in a free land. It's a complete shame!. Oh well! I guess there are no Muslim versions of Carmen Electras or Pamela Andersons or Natalie Portmans on the Earth....too bad for them.

Well I can go to the a Israeli beach and admire the local female citizens strolling about in their skimpies like any Western nation.....a privledge for a man like me or have a beer at Hooters in Tel Aviv or Haifa....that is if there is a hooters in Israel?.

But only in the Islamic countries are women dressed like Mummies and don't show one damn thing because of the conservative, bullcrap values.

That and their copied Chinese or Soviet Military weaponry sucks, the Jews produce fantastic unique designs.