View Full Version : Question to "Moderate Muslims"
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
achaaban
08-22-2005, 10:22 AM
Can you define "moderate Muslims" so that we all know who the hell are we talking about?
Can you define "moderate Muslims" so that we all know who the hell are we talking about?
By moderate muslim I mean the muslim community leaders in the west, like the Islamic Council in Britain, and their consistent supporters.
Or muslims at muslimwakeup.com who seem to openly believe Islamofacist propaganda.
achaaban
08-22-2005, 11:01 AM
By moderate muslim I mean the muslim community leaders in the west, like the Islamic Council in Britain, and their consistent supporters.
Or muslims at muslimwakeup.com who seem to openly believe Islamofacist propaganda.
They are not moderate Muslims, they are organizations that are creating cults, and they only disagree with the suicide bombers interpretation of Jihad which means Kill.
A moderate Muslim is an individual and not a group. He is moderate in the way he/she leads his/her life. The moderate individual, who has faith in God, is not running around trying to convince people with his idea of "Islam" :confused: which is different than that of Ben laden. Once it is an organization or a council forgets about moderate next to Muslim.
A Muslim is an individual who submits to the will of God, it is an individual act between one person and God, there are no announcements attached to this behavior and consequently no organization that represents this individual on Earth.
This individual is not a prophet who is spreading the message of faith. This individual is striving through life while accepting God.
So the answer to your question is simply because these so called "moderate Muslims" are not really moderate.
Thanks for the answer, it makes sense to me while thinking about it.
srirangan
10-03-2005, 11:21 AM
Thanks for the answer, it makes sense to me while thinking about it.
A moderate muslim is a whiner, a defeatist who blames the suicide bombing of his extremist cousins on evil America, evil jews and evil hindu's. They don't take responsibility for their actions and they blame us folk. Alway plays the victim of some evil mumbo jumbo conspiracy, doesn't he?
Badmaash_Lahori
10-03-2005, 12:38 PM
A non-Muslim asks a dumb, illiterate question to the Muslims, ON A JEWISH FORUM, gets one-sided views by non-Muslims, and is satisfied with them.
Truly amazing. Hats off.
srirangan
10-03-2005, 12:40 PM
A non-Muslim asks a dumb, illiterate question to the Muslims, ON A JEWISH FORUM, gets one-sided views by non-Muslims, and is satisfied with them.
Truly amazing. Hats off.
You don't have to be a criminal to notice a crime, do you?
Badmaash_Lahori
10-03-2005, 03:27 PM
You don't have to be a criminal to notice a crime, do you?
Read the first post carefully, and tell me who he is referring to - the Muslims or the non-Muslims.
Reffo
10-03-2005, 06:45 PM
A non-Muslim asks a dumb, illiterate question to the Muslims, ON A JEWISH FORUM, gets one-sided views by non-Muslims, and is satisfied with them.
Truly amazing. Hats off.I don't get it, why was it a dumb, illiterate question? What would you ask Muslims about what is going on with terrorism in the world.....?
srirangan
10-03-2005, 06:49 PM
Read the first post carefully, and tell me who he is referring to - the Muslims or the non-Muslims.
I think extremist Islam is effecting the non muslims of the world, isn't it? Don't we have the right to analyze what's happening with our lives, countries etc.
Have you noticed the sudden world interest in Islam?
Why is it so? What is so special about Islam than other religions?
There is nothing special about Islam per se, but what is special is what is being done in the name of Islam today and with quotes from the Quaran to justify the same!
Does the Koran really justify the mayhem? That is what one is looking at.
Why is this curiosity?
It is because these fundamentalists, quoting the Koran, are creeping out of the woodwork from every nook and crannie, befuddling not only the non Moslems but also many Moslems too.
So don't blame us for the sudden interest in studying the nature of Islam.
ygalg1
10-04-2005, 05:48 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
There was… no highjacking. What you… have witness… it’s what it is!
It's for them… to decide… are they going with the same line or reform…which this never going to happen… it will means to change all the system of laws considering these are from divine source…hmm you get the picture?
platinum786
10-04-2005, 06:40 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
(1) No normal muslim has ever backed Omar Bakri, only his H.T group. Nobody asked for him to stay, peple welcomed his getting out.
(2) Support Blair, never, that idiot raises tax after tax, making life more and more difficult, the only reason i vote labour is because the tories are even worse and the lib dems are hippes.
(3) Support the fall of the taliban, why what did i gain? An enemy on my border, that's what. I'm of Pakistani origin, the talibn where bad, but they kept our border secure....we didn't have to feel a threat from them. The Northern Alliance is made of warlords and drug dealers and terrorists who are not our natural ally, they are a minority party in Afghanistan, who are against us, and have ben so historically. What have we gained?
(4) Why not support Arafat? How can you explain wanting to support Palestinian positions to an israeli, if you people where capable of understanding each other, you would be killing each others children right now.
Why has Israel never condemned or Attacked Irish terrorists in the UK, but is interested in Afghanistan?
Why has Israel never attacked Indian army occupying people in Kashmir but is interested in Iran?
Why is Israel not fearful of Korean nukes, but was fearful of Iraqs?
Natural interest. Nobody is anyones friend, what we do we do for personal betterbement, achievement and greed. Do you think the President of America really cares when people in the UK died in London, i doubt it, you never shed tears for us either, i never bawled my eyes out either, but we all regretted the attacks, we all condemned them, for our personal interests.
Pakistan and muslims do what is in our natural interest, and Israel does what is in it's.
A yewar ago planners where thinking about Israel and Pakistan as 2 nations who threaten each other, today prospective friends and allies, who kissed and made up? Nobody, just interests have become alligned.
If you think muslims have double standards, take a look at yourselves, you all have double standards. Kingdoms in Africa are great and culture, Kingdoms in Saudi Arabia are tortureres and evil....why because Africa is not in your line of sight, you have no interest there.
Pakistan is interested in oppression in Kashmir, Pakistan doesn't give a sh1t about oppression in Zimbabwae. Why interests.
srirangan
10-04-2005, 06:53 AM
(3) Support the fall of the taliban, why what did i gain? An enemy on my border, that's what. I'm of Pakistani origin, the talibn where bad, but they kept our border secure....we didn't have to feel a threat from them. The Northern Alliance is made of warlords and drug dealers and terrorists who are not our natural ally, they are a minority party in Afghanistan, who are against us, and have ben so historically. What have we gained?
You don't gain anything, you're not supposed to. You just bear the burden of the mistakes of your past. You made the Taliban, be happy you're President saved your country from being carpet bombed by agree to do America's dirty work wrt the Taliban. Seriously, do you really think Pakistan is in any position of strength to continue this type of whining that you've graced upon this forum with your post?
(4) Why not support Arafat? How can you explain wanting to support Palestinian positions to an israeli, if you people where capable of understanding each other, you would be killing each others children right now.
Excuse me, bu tthe Arab's got their jordon. And Israel is secular. And the arab's do want to throw the jews in the sea.
Why has Israel never attacked Indian army occupying people in Kashmir but is interested in Iran?
ROFL! Why should Israel have a foreign policy identical to Pakistan's? Just becuase you guys live and breed in delusions doesn't mean the world doen't see the truth.
Why is Israel not fearful of Korean nukes, but was fearful of Iraqs?
Geography.
Natural interest. Nobody is anyones friend, what we do we do for personal betterbement, achievement and greed. Do you think the President of America really cares when people in the UK died in London, i doubt it, you never shed tears for us either, i never bawled my eyes out either, but we all regretted the attacks, we all condemned them, for our personal interests.
Basically you are admitting that Pakistan's co-operation in the war on terror is a sham. Thank you for posting atleast some truth in your post.
Pakistan and muslims do what is in our natural interest, and Israel does what is in it's.
OMG!! Really? :p
A yewar ago planners where thinking about Israel and Pakistan as 2 nations who threaten each other, today prospective friends and allies, who kissed and made up? Nobody, just interests have become alligned.
Actually American pressure on Pakistan made it happen. Israel never had hostility to the muslim states, it has always been vice-versa.
Pakistan is interested in oppression in Kashmir, Pakistan doesn't give a sh1t about oppression in Zimbabwae. Why interests.
Actually, Pak wants to avenge the loss at '71. According to the then military dictator, they want to "bleed India". They turned to radical islam. And now Pakistan itself is in trouble and the monster turns against Frankenstein.
ygalg1
10-04-2005, 08:27 AM
Pakistan as Islamic country; should had leave the Kashmir for the Hindus.
As a compensation for capturing Kaba I mean by becoming a Muslim you are accomplices for the transgression.
We did the same by pulling ourselves out from Gaza; can Pakistan show her good nature? Did prophet Abraham build Kashmir as well or its simply greed?
srirangan
10-04-2005, 08:30 AM
[left]Pakistan as Islamic country; should had leave the Kashmir for the Hindus.
1) India is secular not Hindu.
2) Kashmir signed the treaty of accession with India, kashmir is legally Indian.
3) Pakistan and Afghanistan were originally hindu/budhist lands. So the next time while talking about religion wrt national boundries, be a little careful.
SteveMetch
10-04-2005, 08:46 AM
Can you define "moderate Muslims" so that we all know who the hell are we talking about?
Moderate Muslims are the ones out of ammo :)
SteveMetch
10-04-2005, 08:49 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
"Death to Extremists" :)
ygalg1
10-04-2005, 08:50 AM
1) India is secular not Hindu.
2) Kashmir signed the treaty of accession with India, kashmir is legally Indian.
3) Pakistan and Afghanistan were originally hindu/budhist lands. So the next time while talking about religion wrt national boundries, be a little careful.
India is a secular country:confused: this is a newsflash to me I thought in most are Hindus. thank you for clearing this up for me
srirangan
10-04-2005, 08:55 AM
India is a secular country:confused: this is a newsflash to me I thought in most are Hindus. thank you for clearing this up for me
80% hindu, 11% moslem and the rest christians, sikhs and jews and some parsis. Constitutionally secular where minorities enjoy benefits.
Black-Panther
10-04-2005, 09:32 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
Unfortunally the people prone to these extremist preachers are young Muslims living mostly in the west. I know because I am a Muslin living in the west was born & brought up in the west; I was approached by such preaching bastards my self. Islam never supports the killing of other innocent people. Never. Your question why is this a problem and why cant it be solved.
This problem dates back to the days of Turk rule of todays Saudi Arabia. The british wanted the turks out so the oil can be theres. A man came in the time called Al-Wahab (founder of wahabism) he preached his own version and the extreme version of islam which is false, in the process of doing so he also tampered with with some hadith. He managed to brainwash every arab into it. And the british tagged along. After the turks left Arabia. The saud family took control of Arabia who believed in the extreme teachings of wahab. The oil money today funds this false teachings and Omar Bakri happens to be a scholar in these teachings infesting youg minds.
The Taliban are another example what these extreme teachings can do.
Another problem is Palastine & Israel Issue. As long as it exists extreme non Islamic terrorism will be there.
Black-Panther
10-04-2005, 09:34 AM
"Death to Extremists" :)
i agree.
No USA, Know Peace. More Like It
ygalg1
10-04-2005, 10:45 AM
80% hindu, 11% moslem and the rest christians, sikhs and jews and some parsis. Constitutionally secular where minorities enjoy benefits.
80% are Hindus and yet are not the one who beneficial of the country…:confused:
Note: I intended not to write by national boundaries cause I wanted to try to touch through faith as I feel has relevancy
Mercury
10-04-2005, 04:06 PM
This problem dates back to the days of Turk rule of todays Saudi Arabia. The british wanted the turks out so the oil can be theres. A man came in the time called Al-Wahab (founder of wahabism) he preached his own version and the extreme version of islam which is false, in the process of doing so he also tampered with with some hadith. He managed to brainwash every arab into it. And the british tagged along.
Forgive me my ignorance, but didn't Al-Wahab die a century before the invention of gasoline? What exactly the british and the oil had to do with him?
srirangan
10-04-2005, 10:40 PM
80% are Hindus and yet are not the one who beneficial of the country…:confused:
Note: I intended not to write by national boundaries cause I wanted to try to touch through faith as I feel has relevancy
Vote bank politics. Petty politicians promise more quotas for the minorities for clinging on to power.
ygalg1
10-05-2005, 12:50 AM
Vote bank politics. Petty politicians promise more quotas for the minorities for clinging on to power.
Similar happens in Israel... where wealth and politics... mixed
Of course... there is sort of balance... well it is not promise it will remain... such
80%... it’s no balance. it is catastrophe... in my view.
Well... one thing can be said... in favor for the Hindus... they are pure religious. no political involvement... from their side... of course it is a bit sad... poverty is no comfort... to no one.
platinum786
10-06-2005, 08:42 AM
Srinagan you lying snake.
Kashmir didn't sign anything.
Kashmir had been ruled by a tyrant for years, it was signed over by a sikh tyrant, It's like Saddam Hussien signing Iraq over to Iran.....like thats' fair!
srirangan
10-06-2005, 08:48 AM
Srinagan you lying snake.
Kashmir didn't sign anything.
Kashmir had been ruled by a tyrant for years, it was signed over by a sikh tyrant, It's like Saddam Hussien signing Iraq over to Iran.....like thats' fair!
1) Personal Insult. Thanks for bringing your "pure Pakistani flaming culture" from PDF to other sites.
2)
Aftermath of war
The Treaty of Accession signed by Sheikh Abdullah and Maharaja Hari Singh and his heir, the Sardar-e-Riyasat K. Singh Dogra, was ratified by the popular parliament of the kingdom, dominated by the popular political party of Kashmir, the National Conference led by Sheikh Abdullah. The Indian Government negotiated an autonomous status for the kingdom, and it was the only Indian province permitted to retain its own constitution, flag, anthem, etc.
Pakistan still asks for a plebiscite in Kashmir under the UN. However, India is no longer willing to allow a plebiscite as it claims that the situation has changed. A majority of the Hindus who once lived in Kashmir were forced to move out due to terrorist activities. On the other hand Pakistan or China are not willing to return areas occupied by them (mentioned as one of the conditions at the UN).
The ceasefire line is known as the Line of Control (dotted line) and is the pseudo-border between India and Pakistan in most of the Kashmir region.
3) Just because you live in your delusionary lies at the PDF (figuring out ways to nuke an air craft carrier, go figure) don't think that the rest of the world's education system has failed as it has in the madrassa bred pureland.
PS: "lying snake" ROFL ..
minusthejihad
10-06-2005, 08:51 AM
i agree.
No USA, Know Peace. More Like It
Come get some then Black Puuusssy
Cyrus the Great
10-06-2005, 01:38 PM
Come get some then Black Puuusssy
lol :D
Asim Aquil
10-06-2005, 05:55 PM
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Like Patriot Act I and II? Where they can get into our lives, our email, our phone lines, racially profile it to justify doing that to Muslims only?
What kind of initiatives? If its a real fight where you bring up the right interpretations of Islam as opposed to the wrong ones that the extremists bring up, then yeah, I'll support that.
How much of those initiatives are out there when compared to the P1/2 ones?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Try them, execute them. They're British, keep em. We have enough already.
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
I do, however, they're replaced by bigger morons. Just wait till the US leaves. They'll be either thrown out or they'd enforce 'their' ways even worse than the Taliban. They were more or less in power when the Taliban threw them off. What was going on then? Widespread rapes, murders, massacres and civil war.
Try speaking NA Afghanis, they hate the Pathans which form 60% of Afghanistan.
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
Again I (and many perhaps) did not. I didn't like him for many more reasons.
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
Are you on the side of the moderates? Or do you lump moderates and extremists together? Doesn't this post assume that there is no one whose right? Aren't you declaring any moderate voices as your enemy? Aren't YOU the one whose raising an "enemy of my enemy" situation?
Step-back, re-evaluate. You might have more friends than you thought.
ProudInfidel
10-07-2005, 04:52 PM
Why does moderate Islam spring up like a "jack in the box" when ever there is a terrorist attack??, what do they all do when bigoted mullahs are exhorting attacks against us infidels ??. It sure doesn't show up in countries where muslims are in majority.
"Moderate Islam" is an oxymoron, when muslims are outnumbered or public opinion is against, or when on the losing side of things, it appears out of thin air, to protect it's other extremist half. It is a pure surivival tactic and nothing else.
InnocentMonster
10-07-2005, 06:45 PM
"Moderate Islam" is an oxymoron, when muslims are outnumbered or public opinion is against, or when on the losing side of things, it appears out of thin air, to protect it's other extremist half. It is a pure surivival tactic and nothing else.
Truer words were never spoken !
Islam is fanaticism
Asim Aquil
10-08-2005, 03:13 AM
Why does moderate Islam spring up like a "jack in the box" when ever there is a terrorist attack??, what do they all do when bigoted mullahs are exhorting attacks against us infidels ??. It sure doesn't show up in countries where muslims are in majority.
"Moderate Islam" is an oxymoron, when muslims are outnumbered or public opinion is against, or when on the losing side of things, it appears out of thin air, to protect it's other extremist half. It is a pure surivival tactic and nothing else.
Your assumption that we defend the extremist half is wrong.
In fact the Muslims (there's no moderate or extremists Islam. Just one that is right and one thats wrong) are made to fight on two fronts. One's the Mullahs and one's the side that lumps the Muslims and the Mullahs together.
srirangan
10-08-2005, 03:16 AM
Your assumption that we defend the extremist half is wrong.
In fact the Muslims (there's no moderate or extremists Islam. Just one that is right and one thats wrong) are made to fight on two fronts. One's the Mullahs and one's the side that lumps the Muslims and the Mullahs together.
I hear what you say, and I want to believe it.
Muslim women, children shield terrorists in Thailand (http://www.india-defence.com/reports/422)
We're not in the Ummah.
We see a community which is half in denial of the extremists in its midst, and who somewhat support them for reasons of pride or some theological teachings.
There are strains of thought within Islam which the Jihadists take to an extreme, but which appear to be shared by millions and millions more.
When members of your community, citing your religion, you have to stand up and say "they do not represent us!" More than that, you have to prove it. Jews did this with their denouncing of the Rosenbergs in the US.
Islam is in the midst of a battle for its soul. The Ummah has to decide whether or not they want a war with the West. If they don't, then they have to stop elements from that Ummah from attacking the West.
Asim Aquil
10-08-2005, 07:30 AM
When members of your community, citing your religion, you have to stand up and say "they do not represent us!" More than that, you have to prove it. Jews did this with their denouncing of the Rosenbergs in the US.
Don't the scores and scores of appologist do that?
It might help cool down you momentary anger against Islam, but it does not rectify the problem.
Mainstream Islamic thought and interpretations need reform. We've strayed away from what is the right way. But thats not going to be dealt with by saying "Yo, Mullahs you suck!"
In my view, either we recruit more Muslims into our line of thought or the Mullahs will. Which requires REAL work, REAL action, REAL debate. No amount of bombings will kill, killer ideologies. Only a better ideology can topple a flawed one.
Gershon
10-08-2005, 08:22 AM
I have read al-Qaeda is entering the power vacuum at the Israel-Egypt border particularly in Rafah as the IDF leaves.
al-Qaeda's future strategy unveiled in letter found by U.S. in Iraq: Final step war against Israel
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3152239,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/06/AR2005100601819.html
http://www.debka.com/
The Pentagon releases an internal al Qaeda letter
October 7, 2005, 1:35 PM (GMT+02:00)
The letter is from Al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al Zahawri to Iraq chief Abu Musab al-Zarqawi urging the latter to avoid bombing mosques and slaughtering hostages to avoid alienating the masses. He also asked al Zarqawi for financial support, according to Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman. He did not say where, when or how the letter was obtained but only that the Pentagon is sure it is authentic and confirms al Qaeda’s plan to drive the US out of Iraq and create an Islamic state there.
Ephraim
10-08-2005, 08:01 PM
Can you define "moderate Muslims" so that we all know who the hell are we talking about?
Ooops, someone beat me to it.
:cool:
Gershon
10-11-2005, 01:55 AM
This is from the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations October 10, Alert. It seems Al-Qaeda has established a "Palestine branch" in southern Gaza. The IDF left Egypt the Philadelphi corridor and look who now has a base in Sinai.
Al-Qaeda Raises Its Head in Gaza - Khaled Abu Toameh (Jerusalem Post)
A leaflet distributed in Khan Yunis over the weekend by al-Qaeda's "Palestine branch" announced that the terrorist group has begun working towards uniting the Muslims under one Islamic state.
The leaflet said the group's chief goal was to enforce Islamic law in the entire world, and is the latest indication of al-Qaeda's effort to establish itself in the Gaza Strip after the Israeli withdrawal from the area.
According to Nizar, a resident of Gaza City, some areas in the southern Gaza Strip are already beginning to resemble Afghanistan when it was ruled by the Taliban.
See also Bin Laden Has a Sinai Base - Itamar Eichner (Yediot Ahronot-Hebrew, 10Oct05)
The Head of Israeli Military Intelligence, Maj.-Gen. Aharon Zeevi (Farkash), revealed that Osama bin Laden's organization has established a base in Sinai.
According to him, Egypt knows about the terrorist base in its territory but is having a difficult time dismantling it.
Zeevi told government ministers that al-Qaeda took over an entire area and surrounded it with land mines in order to keep out Egyptian security.
He explained that the al-Qaeda members who penetrated Gaza through the Philadeliphi corridor may have come from this base.
Ferdie
10-11-2005, 03:08 AM
This forum has a good number of moderate muslims, the types who justify the terrorist acts with n number of excuses but are not terrorrists themselves.
Ferdie
10-11-2005, 03:22 AM
Srinagan you lying snake.
Kashmir didn't sign anything.
Why do you go about displaying your juvinile madarsa education?...
Sheikh Abdullah and Maharaja Hari Singh signed the Accession Treaty acceeding to India. If Pakistan does not recognize this treaty, then it is your problem. It does not change facts abouts its legality and the illegality of Pakistan occupying PoK and donation 5000 sq kms of PoK to China.
Asim Aquil
10-11-2005, 06:20 AM
Why do you go about displaying your juvinile madarsa education?...
Sheikh Abdullah and Maharaja Hari Singh signed the Accession Treaty acceeding to India. If Pakistan does not recognize this treaty, then it is your problem. It does not change facts abouts its legality and the illegality of Pakistan occupying PoK and donation 5000 sq kms of PoK to China.
Actually the UN security council even didn't recognize the treaty, and has given the Kashmiris the right for self-determination.
So there are flip sides to both the arguments.
srirangan
10-11-2005, 06:32 AM
Actually the UN security council even didn't recognize the treaty, and has given the Kashmiris the right for self-determination.
So there are flip sides to both the arguments.
The UN council also didn't recognize Pakistan seizing the Northern Areas and the portion of Kashmir valley. As you said, flip sides.
Oh btw the treaty was signed by the J&K govt and India, so it sould become invalid just because Pakistan launches an aggression? :mad:
A non-Muslim asks a dumb, illiterate question to the Muslims, ON A JEWISH FORUM, gets one-sided views by non-Muslims, and is satisfied with them.
Truly amazing. Hats off.
Since you wish to portray yourself as Mr Know All of Islam, can we hear your discourse on Islam and Moderation?
I am all ears!
Mediocrates
10-11-2005, 08:08 AM
This forum has a good number of moderate muslims, the types who justify the terrorist acts with n number of excuses but are not terrorrists themselves.
Not so much, they come and they go. The nutcases tend to swoop in make some noise and swoop away again.
(1) No normal muslim has ever backed Omar Bakri, only his H.T group. Nobody asked for him to stay, peple welcomed his getting out.
First of all, it was revealing that there are "normal" and "abnormal" Moslems.
For discussion's sake, one may concede that "Nobody asked Bakri to stay"/ But the point is that the old goat Bakri (that is what the word Bakri means) spewed venom and it was listened to (if not lapped up) by many normal and abnormal Islamist. Why did the normal Islamist listening to his poisonous diablerie not ask him to GO? Obviously since it was music to their ears! ;)
(2) Support Blair, never, that idiot raises tax after tax, making life more and more difficult, the only reason i vote labour is because the tories are even worse and the lib dems are hippes.
Rather generalised. All Libdems are hippies. No hippies elsewhere?
(3) Support the fall of the taliban, why what did i gain? An enemy on my border, that's what. I'm of Pakistani origin, the talibn where bad, but they kept our border secure....we didn't have to feel a threat from them. The Northern Alliance is made of warlords and drug dealers and terrorists who are not our natural ally, they are a minority party in Afghanistan, who are against us, and have ben so historically. What have we gained?
Isn't it obvious that one is not afraid of one's own creation? Are men afraid of their offsprings? So the Northern Alliances are druglords and not the others? Are you aware how many Pakistani politicians and Generals are in the drug racket? Just because a set of individuals do not toe your country's line, doesn't mean that they are Devil Incarnates.
(4) Why not support Arafat? How can you explain wanting to support Palestinian positions to an israeli, if you people where capable of understanding each other, you would be killing each others children right now.
Arafat was capitalising on the situation. Peace would have diminished his aura.
Why has Israel never condemned or Attacked Irish terrorists in the UK, but is interested in Afghanistan?
Why has Israel never attacked Indian army occupying people in Kashmir but is interested in Iran?
Because India is not a threat to their existence. Iran is.
Why is Israel not fearful of Korean nukes, but was fearful of Iraqs?
As above,
Natural interest. Nobody is anyones friend, what we do we do for personal betterbement, achievement and greed. Do you think the President of America really cares when people in the UK died in London, i doubt it, you never shed tears for us either, i never bawled my eyes out either, but we all regretted the attacks, we all condemned them, for our personal interests.
I am sure he felt disturbed. Since he portrays himself as a macho man, he would not have cried in public. Therefore, you missed the great moment. I am sure he did since it affected his Anglo Saxon sensibility.
Pakistan and muslims do what is in our natural interest, and Israel does what is in it's.
Excellent.
A yewar ago planners where thinking about Israel and Pakistan as 2 nations who threaten each other, today prospective friends and allies, who kissed and made up? Nobody, just interests have become alligned.
So far it is just blowing kisses from Pakistan.
Let things get to hugs and kisses and then we will talk.
If you think muslims have double standards, take a look at yourselves, you all have double standards. Kingdoms in Africa are great and culture, Kingdoms in Saudi Arabia are tortureres and evil....why because Africa is not in your line of sight, you have no interest there.
Well, in the English language there are limitation to express every idea. There is no triple standards or beyond unfortunately. :rolleyes:
Pakistan is interested in oppression in Kashmir, Pakistan doesn't give a sh1t about oppression in Zimbabwae. Why interests.
So Pakistan is oppressing in Kashmir? Sad that they are oppressing,
Forgive me my ignorance, but didn't Al-Wahab die a century before the invention of gasoline? What exactly the british and the oil had to do with him?
Why spoil a nice little yarn the poor man spun.
The sad part is that he didn't realise that there were the educated around and as quick as Mercury!
***********************
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab al-Tamimi (1703 C.E. – 1792 C.E.) (Arabic:محمد بن عبد الوهاب التميمى) was an Arab theologian born in the Najd, in present-day Saudi Arabia and the most famous scholar of the movement within Islam known as the Wahhabi movement. He considered this movement an effort to purify Islam by returning all Muslims to what he believed were the original principles of Islam, as typified by the as-salaf as-saliheen (the earliest converts to Islam) and rejected what he regarded as corruptions introduced by Bida (innovation, reformation) and Shirk (idolatry). Specifically, during his time, he denounced various sects of Sufism. He is considered by some to be a great reformer of Islam, while others regard him as the "father of Islamic terrorism." Some consider his ideas irrational and unoriginal, merely reinteprating discredited interpretations of the Qu'ran while advocating a society mirroring that of Arabia during the first century after the Hijra. They argue that his teachings are little more than the primitive, intolerant views of a fanatic, running counter to the rich body of historical Islamic thought. Others believe he was an innovative and learned scholar whose revival of the Hanbali school of jurisprudence has served the umma at large. He has had a tremendous impact on modern Islam, particularly affecting Muslim attitudes toward non-Muslims. A number of leading figures in recent Islamic terrorism such as Osama bin Laden, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, and Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi have been influenced by his teachings.
Al-Wahhab revived interest in the works of the Islamic scholar Ibn Taymiya; The followers of this revival (see Islamism) are often called Wahhabis, but they reject the usage of this term on the grounds that Al-Wahhab's teachings were the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed, not his own. Thus, they refer to themselves as Salafists or Muwahhidun, meaning, "the monotheists."
chacko
10-11-2005, 09:32 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
Ask Tony Blair and his predecessors, why they funded terror? Which part of the world they did not? Who encouraged Muslim and Sikh extremist to put up base in UK?
Extremist Muslims are only a after effect, whats the cause?
srirangan
10-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Extremist Muslims are only a after effect, whats the cause?
Extremist Islam.
Extremist Muslims are only a after effect, whats the cause?
Extreme Islam. :p
chacko
10-11-2005, 10:47 AM
Sorry dudes Islam ain't extremest.
True.
It is a religion of Peace.
It is the others who are Violent!
The terrorists have Moslem names, but their actions are not Islamic.
Islam does not condone killing of innocents or killing per se. Kill one and it is Killing mankind!
Oh well there are endless verses to indicate the benigness of Islam, its compassion and its tolerance to the Infidel Kaffirs but who are but Dogs!
Islam is doing so much to bring the world to order. Policing with bombs and beheading at such risk to themselves. All because there must be Peace in this world. Obviously, the only way to true Peace is through the true religion - Islam.
Embrace Islam and Peace be upon you as Peace is on Mohammed but one has to remind all by using PBUH because after death there is no Peace.
Hey, then what is Paradise all about? Hell? Maybe.
If One cannot manage four wives on Earth, to imagine handling 72 virgins up in Paradise being handled! And since there is no question of marriage in Heaven as they are available as a bonus, one can't even use the magic word Talaq Talaq Talaq! Damned is the one saddle with 72 hot and nubile Virgins at the same time! No wonder it is Hell! :D
Islam is so Kind and Merciful. And dashed good too. Chucks in freebies as 72 virgin too!
No wonder Islamic joes are suicide bombers. Who wants to hang around on Earth with 72 are waiting!
chacko
10-12-2005, 05:55 AM
Outbursts never win debates. Isn't it obvious you are hindu and you don't like Muslims. Its traditional. Hindus don't even like Christians. I see no big deal here.
srirangan
10-12-2005, 06:01 AM
Hindus don't even like Christians. I see no big deal here.
Ah yes, blame the evil "nazi aryan" hindus.
chacko
10-12-2005, 06:20 AM
You mean VHP and RSS? :p
Mediocrates
10-12-2005, 06:25 AM
most here don't know what you're talking about. FYI.
Asim Aquil
10-12-2005, 07:15 AM
Sorry dudes Islam ain't extremest.
People have a tendency to blame Islam and religions for what a subset group might be doing.
Islam is sexy.
srirangan
10-12-2005, 07:21 AM
Islam is sexy.
LOL
Samrat
10-12-2005, 07:26 AM
Hindus don't even like Christians. I see no big deal here.
I'm Hindu.
Do Prove that I dont even like Christians!
You are being ignorant.
Why make a sweeping statement about 80 crore hindus who are not worried about a Christian Def.Min or a Christ. Super Prime Minister ?
So nice of you , aint it ?
All 80 crore Hindus dont like Christains...
As I said I'm one of the 80 crores and since you made the sweeping statement, how about backing it up and trying to prove that what you said is correct ? (forget the fact that is was almost a racists statement)
Mediocrates
10-12-2005, 08:03 AM
See I learned something. Someone has a special term just for 10 million.
srirangan
10-12-2005, 08:07 AM
See I learned something. Someone has a special term just for 10 million.
ROFL :p
chacko
10-12-2005, 08:20 AM
most here don't know what you're talking about. FYI.
K, thanks. I get the hint.
Outbursts never win debates. Isn't it obvious you are hindu and you don't like Muslims. Its traditional. Hindus don't even like Christians. I see no big deal here.
Are you meaning me?
No, I am not a Hindu.
Does it make any difference to the fact written.
Please address the post.
I think it is a generalisation that Hindus don't like Christians. I hope you know who is Mother Teresa, the Bharat Ratna and for whose funeral whole of Calcutta turned out, Christians of all denominations, Hindus, Moslems you say the religon and it was there.
And what is more, even the Communists of Calcutta!
If you are talking about proselytising. Yes. There is a law that prevents convertion by allurement or by false presentations.
But as far as I am concerned religion is a bit of a sham. Every religion is being milked of the money of the devoted by the priestly classes and a whole lot of humbug is passed around as the word of God.
And before you accuse me further, I hate Communists! So don't label that on me.
I am not a "Urumbe" in my philosophy of life. Got that Achhen?
Achhen.
If you want to know, I am against bigotry in every religion and when someone feels his religion is the ONLY religion on this world that should be followed.
Live and Let live.
There are greater things to be achieved than getting bogged down with myths or "revelations" of a Man (anyone) who one has not seen.
In fact, who has seen this wonderful entity, God?
Religion is basically a code to bring law and order and make barbarians accountable to a social code. Obviously, a supernatural with supernatural powers was essential. So, the clever ones cashed in and did good for the times!
Children are brought in line by the fear of ghosts. Have you seen one? Banquo's ghost should visit you!
Just because you have been cautioned to not post hate posts, it doesn't mean you go overboard to prove that you are more loyal to the King than the King himself!
Please don't use me for rehabilitation!
Lunatock
10-15-2005, 09:10 AM
If you truly are moderate, if you truly hate exresmists, if terrorism truly hurts your heart, if you feel that it is best not to be associated with hard liners I have a serious question to you.
Why do you not support initiatives against extremism?
Why is it you are fighting bitterly with Prime Minister Tony Blair to prevent him from expelling extremists from Britain?
Why do you not celebrate the fall of the Taliban which oppressed millions of Muslims and whos persecution of Buddhists caused the destruction of some of the worlds greatest artwork (The great and ancient Buddha Statues).
Why did you lobby in favor of Yassir Arafat after he rejected Camp David and Camp Taba because the offers would have left Israel intact?
You have some serious soul searching to do, you can not play both sides of the coin, and you can not be silent either. You are either with Tony Blair or Omar Bakri, you are either with President Bush or Bin Ladden, there is no nuetrality.
If the extremists are hijacking Islam then why are you not celebrating when Tony Blair moves to expell the extremists from Britain and prevent any more of them from coming in?
The answers to all those questions is a simple "not in any of those catagories".
Didn't have a problem with PM Blair exporting extremists from Britian.
Glad the Taliban went bye bye, also glad Saddam was dumped off of his throne as well.
Didn't support the Intifadah, especially after the Oslo agreement was rejected by Arafat. Palestine under his leadership was lead only to war against the IDF.
And add to that my fiance is Chechen, born & raised there. And she chose to cross Shamil Basayev and betray him after he "asked" her to be a suicide bomber. And although I'm against Basayev...neither do I support Vladimir Putin.
lovboy_46
10-19-2005, 02:49 PM
Pakistan as Islamic country; should had leave the Kashmir for the Hindus.
As a compensation for capturing Kaba I mean by becoming a Muslim you are accomplices for the transgression.
We did the same by pulling ourselves out from Gaza; can Pakistan show her good nature? Did prophet Abraham build Kashmir as well or its simply greed?
wow what a wonderful thought.but if pakistan will not then india have ability show the pakistan the truthand when Last time shown when pakistan ran for US cover in 1999 kargil.
Posted by Lunatack:
And add to that my fiance is Chechen, born & raised there. And she chose to cross Shamil Basayev and betray him after he "asked" her to be a suicide bomber. And although I'm against Basayev
She crossed Basayev personally?
Pakistan as Islamic country; should had leave the Kashmir for the Hindus.
As a compensation for capturing Kaba I mean by becoming a Muslim you are accomplices for the transgression.
We did the same by pulling ourselves out from Gaza; can Pakistan show her good nature? Did prophet Abraham build Kashmir as well or its simply greed?
You simply gave back something you stole in the first place, don't expect any sympathy.
By the way, that hawk Sharon stole more land in The West Bank than he returned in Gaza.
Once a deceiving ... always a decieving ...
That's the way I feel about it.
Mediocrates
10-21-2005, 09:45 AM
Nah I don't see it that way. I see new vertical construction on old plots of land.
So then the US stole land from Britain, from Canada, from France, from Japan, from Mexico and from the Native Americans? Poland and France stole from Germany? What about the people who stole that land from the Jews originally?
BTW - the Arabs were not the owners (sovereigns) of the land (Gaza and the WB) until Egypt and Jordan conquered it in 1948 - before then it had been British for more than half a century and the turks for a long time before them...
How can something be given back to a group who didn't own it in the first place?
You simply gave back something you stole in the first place, don't expect any sympathy.
By the way, that hawk Sharon stole more land in The West Bank than he returned in Gaza.
Once a deceiving ... always a decieving ...
That's the way I feel about it.
Simple:They lived there, you took over, made them second class citizens (just like the Talmud and Maimonides state BTW).
Also, if the land in Gaza was stolen, presumably the whole of the WB is stolen, so then how could Sharon steal more? What exactly did he steal? If you are only talking individual settlements, then you need to prove private property rights to say something is "stolen" - and then sovereignty of that land really isn't an issue, as long as property rights are respected, and just like in the US, under certain conditions private property rights give way to the state's needs.
ps... you do know that the 6 day war was defensive, don't you? And would you have the Arabs face no consequences for their repeated invasions (with attempt to committ genocide) of Israel?
Simple:They lived there, you took over, made them second class citizens (just like the Talmud and Maimonides state BTW).
They lived there, but just because I live somewhere doesn't mean I own it. Does that mean that a population of any city can just decide it owns an area and that US laws don't apply and they don't have to pay taxes?
As for the 2nd class citizen claim, what exactly are you talking about? Israeli Arabs have the same rights as any other Israeli - and they have members of Parliament and on the Supreme Court. There is the issue of serving on the IDF, but you have to be realistic with an ethnic war going on.
The Arabs in the territories actually gained rights when Israel gained control of the land, and gained a large amount of properity too, until they decided to wage war on Israel.
ps. under your definition of "how its stolen", Sharon could not have stolen any more land. Not that you've come up with any facts to support your allegations.
It seems you are just parroting anti-Israeli propaganda, without any actual knowledge of the issues.
Also, if the land in Gaza was stolen, presumably the whole of the WB is stolen, so then how could Sharon steal more? What exactly did he steal? If you are only talking individual settlements, then you need to prove private property rights to say something is "stolen" - and then sovereignty of that land really isn't an issue, as long as property rights are respected, and just like in the US, under certain conditions private property rights give way to the state's needs.
And the "state's needs" are what's best for the Jews. You know that 8000 Jews in Gaza had more land than 1.000.000 Muslims and Christians? Talk about Talmudic injustice. :(
First of all, do you know the % of Christians in Gaza? Do you know what the Muslims have done to Bethlehem, the Church of the Nativity, etc?
Second, Israel created the settlements in Gaza as roadblocks, as they were, from Egypt to Tel Aviv. They were each buffers. They also had agricultural production, which takes up more land than simply living there. Additionally, please cite facts to support the claim that the settlers had more land, in total than the remainder of the Gaza population - I can't admit or deny it - back it up.
Meanwhile - nu? There are parts of philadelphia, where I live, where a couple families own far more land than the entire population of West Philly. What does this mean?
Meanwhile, your ducking my questions.
Mediocrates
10-21-2005, 10:20 AM
Simple:They lived there, you took over, made them second class citizens (just like the Talmud and Maimonides state BTW).
This is entirely false. And you shouldn't pretend to know or be something you're not, "Bart".
Posted by Bart:
Simple:They lived there, you took over, made them second class citizens (just like the Talmud and Maimonides state BTW).
By the way if you are so into this human-rights and land-rights may be you should put your believes into returning East Prussia back to Germany - after WWII over 8,000,000 evicted people (compared to some 500,000 Palestinians at around the same time frame). You should also give some attention to Latvia, an EU state, were 500,000 (out 2.5 mil) as second-class citizens for nothing other then their ethnic belonging. Go check it out.
Mediocrates
10-21-2005, 10:22 AM
And the "state's needs" are what's best for the Jews. You know that 8000 Jews in Gaza had more land than 1.000.000 Muslims and Christians? Talk about Talmudic injustice. :(
This really isn't a response to you since I think you're a troll, but to anyone who might read this. At most the Israelis controled perhaps 17-20% of the total land inside Gaza. For a small population for sure but mostly for farms. And a great deal of security zones to keep people (like you?) from killing them.
Please don't rant on about Talmud since you don't know anything about it. Thanks.
This really isn't a response to you since I think you're a troll, but to anyone who might read this. At most the Israelis controled perhaps 17-20% of the total land inside Gaza. For a small population for sure but mostly for farms. And a great deal of security zones to keep people (like you?) from killing them.
No they controlled something like 50 %, perhaps a little bit more or a little bit less.
Please don't rant on about Talmud since you don't know anything about it. Thanks.
I claim that the Tamud states: "every non-Jew deserves to be killed" (Tob shebe Goyim harog.)
I know more than enough kid.
First of all, do you know the % of Christians in Gaza? Do you know what the Muslims have done to Bethlehem, the Church of the Nativity, etc?
.
Christians suffer daily in Israel. They are literally spat at, simply because they are Christian. Don’t believe me? Read this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wspit13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/13/ixnewstop.html)
Still no citation to facts, and still ducking the other issues.
Oh, and
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/
(click the links)
hmmm...
Some of these claims come from one version of the talmud that was written down, apparently the Soncino talmud of 1935. Most, however, are just flat out made up by Jew haters.
Christians suffer daily in Israel. They are literally spat at, simply because they are Christian. Don’t believe me? Read this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wspit13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/13/ixnewstop.html)
The Orthodox spit on other Jews, kid. Moreover, it is disengenous (read - a lie) to say that this supports that Christians suffer daily. Now, we all suffer daily, in a Bhuddist sense.. life is hard, but that isn't what you are trying to say. And you haven't supported it. There are plenty of Christians in Israel, and they are living fine. I know some. Have you ever even been to Israel?
Why don't you go do some research on what has happened to the Christian Population of Bethlehem and Nazareth since they have been given to Pal Arab control? Hmm? Report back to me on it. And it ain't Jews who used the Church of the Nativity as a hostage holding point and giant toilet. That would be the Pal Arabs, again.
It seems that you think you know a lot, but in fact know next to nothing.
I did some research on your quote. It has inconsistent attributations, mainly from neo-nazi (some Jihadist) sites - including Michael Hoffman, a white-supremacist and anti-semite. Nice to know where you get your info from, Bart.
http://www.crusader.net/resources/election.html
http://www.adl.org/learn/safety/safety_bulletin.asp
Another credible "source" for your quote:
http://www.davidduke.com/index.php?p=303
thank you for exposing yourself, Bart.
Mediocrates
10-21-2005, 01:05 PM
No they controlled something like 50 %, perhaps a little bit more or a little bit less.
I claim that the Tamud states: "every non-Jew deserves to be killed" (Tob shebe Goyim harog.)
I know more than enough kid.
Please give me the cite and we can talk about context, thanks.
Mediocrates
10-21-2005, 01:07 PM
Christians suffer daily in Israel. They are literally spat at, simply because they are Christian. Don’t believe me? Read this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wspit13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/13/ixnewstop.html)
The eastern Orthodox church owns the land under the Knesset.
But I'm guessing that race relations are perfect where you live. Where is it you live again?
Ferdie
10-23-2005, 07:55 PM
Christians suffer daily in Israel. They are literally spat at, simply because they are Christian. Don’t believe me? Read this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wspit13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/13/ixnewstop.html)
Just because one student behaved like an idiot does not mean that christians are suffering in Israel. They suffer due to the on going terrorism. The armenian bishop (mentioned in the article) should not have behaved the way he did (considering his maturity in age and religious status), he has behaved contrary to the teachings of Christ in the very place that he once lived.
Well considering christians are leaving the Arab World en masse because they actually do suffer persecution from the Arabs, while Israel's own Christian Population increased from 34,000 in 48, to 108,000 today and is going to double within two years a Pro-Arab Ignoramous accusing Israel of persecuting christians seems particularly stupid.
Saffira
11-10-2005, 09:00 AM
Christians suffer daily in Israel. They are literally spat at, simply because they are Christian. Don’t believe me? Read this. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/13/wspit13.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/13/ixnewstop.html)
Christians suffer daily in Israel? well, I saw plenty of Christians in Israel two months ago when I was there, and again last year, and they didn't seem to be suffering.
You know what? we came across a small house while we were in Jerusalem, and the parents hadn't kept their children in check, because the children were slapping people walking along the path, which ran by their house. This family are Arabs, my friends were slapped as they walked past the house, by these Arab children, who ran back inside and then came out to slap the next person who walked past.
And you go on about being spat at? nowhere near as bad as being slapped in the face!
minusthejihad
11-10-2005, 09:35 AM
Every couple of weeks, some anti-semite drops in with these same "verses" quoted from other hate sites. Of course they never offer up any real proof, just some "my friend said, or some rip and read from ei.com. Nothing to see here people, keep moving along.
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