View Full Version : Britain May Scrap Holocaust Day
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 04:57 AM
Blair urged to cancel Holocaust Day
Committee recommends canceling British Holocaust Day, says it offends Muslims
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3140386,00.html
Reffo
09-11-2005, 05:08 AM
Some people never learn. They don't realise that after the cowardly London bombings, this is precisely the time when they need a bit of backbone to show that they will not be cowed and intimidated by terrorism and that despite it, they would be willing to do what they set out to do and what they feel is right......... Even if any other would be terrorists don't like it.
Womble
09-11-2005, 05:29 AM
That's not PC that is going too far, that's BS that does. The proposal comes from the same crowd who is so uncomfortable with the Holocaust that they are trying to do two things at once- both deny that the Holocaust took place or was on the scale it was, and at the same time exploit Holocaust imagery to smear Israel. Judging by the original Times article, the British do not intend to cancel the Holocaust day- and good for them.
atricnorth
09-11-2005, 05:45 AM
i am waiting for some kind of sign like katrina on england.
hmmm.
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 07:18 AM
I don't believe that the motives behind this proposal is holocaust denial.
I believe what they try to do is demonstrate some "equality" for the British Muslim community, some sort of "damage control" after the (rightful) accusations of persecution following the terror attacks. and if it happens on the back of the Jewish comunity? oh well... they shouldn't complaign too loud... :mad:
Mediocrates
09-11-2005, 07:21 AM
I would like to see it degenerate into a wild screaming mob of radicals. I would like to seem them finally tear the lid off and have green shmatas and black ski masks parade through London by the ten thousand. Put Red Ken at the head of the line. Face facts, the UK is headed for its own Kristallnacht and for of Tony Blair's carefully thought out talking points, there is nothing anyone will do to stop it. And when it happens, we'll hear calls for 'calm and understanding'.
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 07:45 AM
yeah yeah we heard all about your apocalyptic prophcies.
I assume London's Kristallnacht will happen at about the time of Israel's collapse, some two years ahead, hmm? :rolleyes:
Mediocrates
09-11-2005, 08:06 AM
Yes I understand how your deep denial functions.
But seriously what's wrong with this? Why not push the Shoah to the back burner and embrace every groups' deep sense of dissaffected outrage and victimhood? Everyone everywhere wants to play the victim card, so why not indulge them? Everyone wants to call anything that ever happened to them a genocide or a Holocaust. Even animal rights people use that terrm.
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 08:29 AM
"But seriously " ??? you really expet to be taken seriously ??? :rolleyes:
Mediocrates
09-11-2005, 09:04 AM
So what's wrong with it? We don't have Shoah Day here in the states. We don't have victim genocide day either though. Of course today is a good example of silly shared weepiness day as we watch an endless series of 9-11 bell ringing ceremonies. But those are mostly about how we feel about ourselves and our ribbon magnets than we do for any of the dead.
Mediocrates
09-11-2005, 09:05 AM
And oh, I forgot, everything here is so so serious.
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 01:10 PM
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana
what d'ya know... an American...
Reffo
09-11-2005, 01:35 PM
And what is the lesson? ........It is that if you appease tyrants/murderers/terrorists then you get more tyranny, murder and terrorism.....
SteveK
09-11-2005, 01:36 PM
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
George Santayana
what d'ya know... an American...
Start reading up on your own ancient Jewish history, sharonbn.
We've repeated it already.
And, I don't mean the past successful events on our ancient time line.
Screw Europe!!!! I also recommend they cancel the VE-Day.
Mediocrates
09-11-2005, 01:56 PM
As I said, I am completely ok with green do-rag and burning Jews in effigy day in England. They can hold it in Bethnal Green and Bow.
Is it kind of interesting or is it only the doom sayers like me who chuckle at the difference between the French prohibiting the hijab compared to the English who are going to tolerate themselves to death?
sharonbn
09-11-2005, 04:15 PM
but seriously...
Screw Europe!!!! I also recommend they cancel the VE-Day.
There were only a few short periods of peace, decent living and tranquility for the Jews of Europe. The European soil is drenched with Jewish blood. Jews and Europe do not mix. Anti-Semitism is an integral part of the Western European culture.
They exterminated 6M Jews and now they are building the memorials to the annihilated Jews. It is a vile continent.
Posted by Toga:
There were only a few short periods of peace, decent living and tranquility for the Jews of Europe. The European soil is drenched with Jewish blood. Jews and Europe do not mix. Anti-Semitism is an integral part of the Western European culture.
They exterminated 6M Jews and now they are building the memorials to the annihilated Jews. It is a vile continent.
I think in a decade or so there would be a massive Jewish immigration out of Europe.
Reffo
09-11-2005, 09:49 PM
Committee recommends canceling British Holocaust Day, says it offends Muslims If it's true that something like a Holocaust Day Commemoration would offend Muslims, then all I can say is that if they want to have respect, then they better learn to respect others and if they want to be tolerated, then they better learn to tolerate others!!!!!!
Luke90
09-12-2005, 02:34 AM
They exterminated 6M Jews and now they are building the memorials to the annihilated Jews. It is a vile continent.
You seem to imply that there is something wrong with building memorials. Wouldn't you also be offended if there weren't memorials?
Mediocrates
09-12-2005, 05:43 AM
What the UK fails to realize is that what they're engaging in is no different than submitting everything to a religious council for approval. Except in this case they have an end-run around 'religion' by substituting 'tolerance for multiculturalism'. I think it's entirely wonderful that the UK's view of 'tolerance' is deeply embedded with barely obscured antisemitism.
Why do we have different standards for England than we do for Russia or Egypt? There is absolutely no honor in geo-politics. Why should we be shocked about this? The only lesson that we should have taken away from WWII is that Jews can't depend on the other nations of the world for protection. Don't you people study Jewish history or do you rely on others to preserve our memory for us?
sharonbn
09-12-2005, 08:56 AM
Mira,
Jews don't (and never have) relied on the world to remember their heritage and history. The world should remember the Holocaust for its own interest, in order so this tragedy will not repeat itself.
There seems to be a conflict here regrding the reasons for the British proposal to change Holocaust memorial day. I think that it is for "practical" reasons, like appeasing Muslims so they will not feel alienated (the Brits might think these feelings are cause for the terror attacks), politically correctness, etc. Other people here think this is yet another expression of good old European anti-Semitism. I don't think this is the case (anti-Semitism in the last decade was never state sponsored) but its pure specualtion at this time.
Mediocrates
09-12-2005, 08:57 AM
At the same time that the UK is attempting to arrest Doron Almog for warcrimes?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/623564.html
Aviva
09-12-2005, 09:21 AM
Blair urged to cancel Holocaust Day
Committee recommends canceling British Holocaust Day, says it offends Muslims
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3140386,00.html
That link makes my head hurt. What the hell is happening to the UK?
Since the London bombings, the Islamic community has been openly playing a game with political correctness that's becoming more and more disturbing, seeing as fewer and fewer British people can see it for what it really is - a dirty and quite frankly disgusting game of propaganda aimed at swaying the opinions of liberal Westerners.
Ephraim
09-12-2005, 11:19 AM
First of all.....
1. Germany should have a Holocaust day...not the UK.
2. The UK creation of a Holocaust day was an act of PC in the first place.
3. Its been 60 years.
4. America never had a Holocaust Day, and we do ok.
5. But now that the Muslims demand it's withdrawal, the UK should keep it; at least this year.
(Maybe riots will occur and the UK will see what kind of people they have let in.)
Mira,
Jews don't (and never have) relied on the world to remember their heritage and history. The world should remember the Holocaust for its own interest, in order so this tragedy will not repeat itself.
I'm not so sure about your first statement, sharonbn.
As far as the latter, the genocide against the Jews wasn't the first and the lessons of WWII did not prevent subsequent genocides. There is nothing that convinces me that there won't be another genocide in the future, although I can't imagine one with the same systematic fervor or the same level of clinical depravity in which the Nazis carried out their scientific experiements on and mass murder of a particular people targetted for extermination. If you actually list in detail what it was that the Nazis did with the Jews compared to other cases of genocide, that's when the situation looks unique. But most people don't get into the details, they argue about the numbers, and even with that, the good people generally tip their hats to the Jews for having gone through something unusual. I don't see a danger in repeating the crimes of the Nazis. Even the Arabs with their nail bombs, lynchings, beheadings and talk about the road to heaven being paved with Jewish skulls, are more humane than the Nazis were.
The Jewish holocaust only demonstrated the absolute nadir of humanity. What we have seen since is the politicization of the term genocide from the Armenian experience to that of the Balkans and Sudan:
The committee's proposal suggested that the memorial day's name be changed to "Genocide Memorial Day," thereby commemorating the large numbers of deaths of Muslims in Israel, Chechnya, and Bosnia. It would encompass genocides of other peoples as well. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1126405199804
Blair wants to lump the "large number of deaths of Muslims in Israel..." into Genocide Memorial Day. GAME OVER!
KSO said in one of the many threads we have had on the subject, that the United States and Israel's refusal to acknowledge an Armenian genocide while countries like France have, demonstrates to the world that if you have powerful and influential friends, then you can get away with genocide. Is he right? Even without knowing for sure what happened between the Turks and Armenians, I know that the world has brushed the topic under the rug. So if the world has learned that a nation with powerful and influential friends can potentially get away with genocide, then why can't the world also manipulate and politicize the term genocide? You see, I'm cynical as heck when it comes to Western humanism. I don't believe in it.
The point is not whether there should or should not be a Holocaust day - the point is that it should be canceled because it offends a Muslim community. Even though the Holocaust has NOTHING to do with the Muslims and their grievances at the Jews and has everything to do with very specific events in the European history is the main cause of the issue.
With the same logic Britain should cancel VE Day, BoB should be discarded as some historical nuisance, and the Normandy invasion should be forgotten.... because it offends the Germans.
This is ALL CR***P. If such feelings prevail in Europe and are pushed by some European politicians Jews should start thinking of moving out of that idiotic continent. Let them rot in their own cr***p by themselves.
Ophra
09-12-2005, 12:22 PM
What a fuss over nothing :rolleyes: ...... keep the faith ;) Blair is okay ...
See : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3141233,00.html
Semsem
09-12-2005, 12:36 PM
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/623555.html
Report: Blair urged to scrap Holocaust Day in U.K.
By Haaretz Staff
Advisers appointed by British Prime Minister Tony Blair are proposing that Britain get rid of Holocaust Memorial Day because Muslims find it offensive, the British Sunday Times has reported.
The proposals - which provoked a backlash from British Jewish leaders - aim to replace Holocaust Memorial Day with a Genocide Day that would include recognition of Muslim deaths in the West Bank and Gaza, Chechnya and Bosnia, the Times said.
Advertisement
A Home Office spokesman said it would consider the suggestions, but said it regarded the Holocaust as a "defining tragedy in European history," according to the report.
"The very name Holocaust Memorial Day sounds too exclusive to many young Muslims," a member of one of the committees was quoted as saying. "It sends out the wrong signals: that the lives of one people are to be remembered more than others. It's a grievance that extremists are able to exploit."
The recommendations, which have been finalized and are to be submitted to Blair on September 22, were prepared by four committees that Blair appointed after the recent London bombings in an effort to combat extremism.
"There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years," Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal, told the Times. "That's pretty genocidal to me."
Mike Whine, a director of Britain's Jewish Board of Deputies, said the group would fight the proposal. "Of course we will oppose this move," he told the Times. "The whole point is to remember the darkest day of modern history."
"These Muslim groups should stop trying to evade the enormity of the Holocaust," said Louise Ellman, Labor MP for Liverpool Riverside and a Holocaust Memorial trustee.
Britain's Holocaust Memorial Day was first held in January 2001, and has been held on January 27 every year since then
Semsem
09-12-2005, 12:37 PM
If the British scrap Holocaust Day it would imply:
Pandering to distorted antisemitic racist demands made by the British Muslim Community. We certainly saw what this pandering has led to.
minusthejihad
09-12-2005, 12:39 PM
What a fuss over nothing :rolleyes: ...... keep the faith ;) Blair is okay ...
See : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3141233,00.html
The fuss is that this is a committee that Blair himself organized to "fight extremism" and their first suggestion was to cancel this event, once again, blaming problems on Jews instead of looking inward and working on their own crazy communities. Perhaps Blair should cancel this committee right away.
minusthejihad
09-12-2005, 12:42 PM
Please check the other threads first before posting, since this is already a topic being discussed.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/623555.html"There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years," Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal, told the Times. "That's pretty genocidal to me."
Can someone inform this piece of garbage that when the Arabs launched their genoicidal campaign in 1948, every village they captured was cleansed of its Jewish inhabitants and replaced with Arabs from Jordan? Jewish tombstones were turned into stepping stones.
Rivka
09-12-2005, 01:25 PM
Are you bloody serious! If we do not remeber then we do not apply to the future... and then we fall. If America where to scrap it I would be soo mad that I would find an island buy it and and and... gurrrr I hate stupid people
Are you bloody serious! If we do not remeber then we do not apply to the future... and then we fall. If America where to scrap it I would be soo mad that I would find an island buy it and and and... gurrrr I hate stupid people
The US doesn't have a Holocaust Day. If they did, it wouldn't be for Jews. So which island are you thinking of getting?
Mediocrates
09-12-2005, 01:59 PM
So you still have power?
Semsem
09-12-2005, 02:39 PM
The law firm that wants to arrest the Israeli military guy is headed by an Israeli who lives in Britain! It's disgusting.
Good he was able to return to Israel in time. All Jews should just boycot Britain.
Posted by Mira:
The US doesn't have a Holocaust Day. If they did, it wouldn't be for Jews. So which island are you thinking of getting?
The issue is not whether there should or should not be a Holocaust day. The issue is that it might get cancelled because it "offends" a completely un-related group of people where in reality everyone knows why this particular "day" offends them.
On a different note - if it wasn't for the United States nobody would have never even cared for the Holocaust.
Semsem
09-12-2005, 03:13 PM
UK decides not to replace Holocaust Day
By MATTHEW WAGNER
British Prime Minister Tony Blair notified Monday that he would not adopt the proposal to change the British Holocaust Memorial Day to a British Genocide Day, which would serve as a memorial to Muslim deaths as well as Holocaust victims.
Radical Muslims were uncomfortable with the Holocaust because of the infamous role played by some of their leaders during World War II, said former Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi Israel Meir Lau on Monday in response to proposals to do away with Holocaust Memorial Day in Britain because Muslims find it offensive.
"The so called 'religious' leader Haj Amin el Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, went out of his way to come all the way to Berlin to encourage Hitler to kill Jews. He did everything in his power to help the Nazis in their diabolical plot."
"So I do not buy it when Palestinians argue that they were victims of the Holocaust because it led to the establishment of the state of Israel."
"Before there was ever a state of Israel there was rabid anti-Semitism among radical Muslims."
"I call on Tony Blair, who was the man who is responsible for creating Holocaust Memorial Day back in 2001, not to bow down to pressures made by these radical Muslims," said Lau, himself a survivor of Buchanwald. "He should be faithful to his own convictions."
According to British media reports, advisers to Prime Minister Blair proposed that Holocaust Memorial Day be replaced with 'Genocide Day'. The new memorial day would commemorate Muslim deaths in the West Bank and Gaza, Chechnya and Bosnia, in addition to Holocaust victims.
The recommendations, which were finalized were to be submitted to Blair on September 22, were prepared by four committees that Blair appointed after the recent London bombings in an effort to combat extremism.
Britain's Sunday Times quoted one committee member as saying, "The very name Holocaust Memorial Day sounds too exclusive to many young Muslims. It sends out the wrong signals: that the lives of one people are to be remembered more than others. It's a grievance that extremists are able to exploit."
Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal was quoted as saying, "There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years. That's pretty genocidal to me."
Lau said that Blair had the opportunity as Prime Minister to right historical wrongs made by previous British statesmen.
"Churchill was a great man, but he did not help the Jews as much as he could have during the Holocaust. He could have bombed the train tracks from Budapest to Auschwitz and save 50,000 lives a day."
"You, Tony Blair, are in Churchill's place now. Do not give credibility to Holocaust denial. Lau has said in the past that he sees no future for European Jewry, due in part to the rising tide of Islamic anti-Jewish sentiment."
In January, the Muslim Council of Britain, representing about 350 different Muslim organizations, boycotted the commemoration of the liberation of Auschwitz claiming it was racially inclusive and did not honor the victims of Palestinian conflict. The council insisted that the Palestinian 'holocaust' be included as well.
Posted by Mira:
The US doesn't have a Holocaust Day. If they did, it wouldn't be for Jews. So which island are you thinking of getting?
The issue is not whether there should or should not be a Holocaust day. The issue is that it might get cancelled because it "offends" a completely un-related group of people where in reality everyone knows why this particular "day" offends them.
On a different note - if it wasn't for the United States nobody would have never even cared for the Holocaust.
Yes, I read your previous post, Mil, and I agree with you, except I would raise your pom-poms half-mast since it was the US government that turned away boats with Jewish refugees fleeing from Europe because we met our Jew quota...or so they said at the time.
Israel should put out arrest warrants on British military officers for alleged crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in England proper, or maybe for a general in the falklan war... put out the warrant half an hour before he arrives in Israel... then rescind it - just make the point.
Where's luke to defend this disgusting display of pandering/appeasement.
Israel should put out arrest warrants on British military officers for alleged crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in England proper, or maybe for a general in the falklan war... put out the warrant half an hour before he arrives in Israel... then rescind it - just make the point.
Where's luke to defend this disgusting display of pandering/appeasement.
It's a publicity stunt, but the issue is real, Palestinians can't sue inside Israel (by law) and like anybody else they need to have the abillity to seek justice.
Reffo
09-13-2005, 02:19 PM
It's a publicity stunt, but the issue is real, Palestinians can't sue inside Israel (by law) and like anybody else they need to have the abillity to seek justice.So, presumably by using the same logic, if Israeli victims of Palestinian war crimes sue Palestinian perpetrators in the future, an arrest warrant will be issued for them too, and they will be arrested and held? Actually, that's a silly question because we had the answer to that question in the 1970s when the British released Laila Khaled, a would be hijacker of an El Al plane who was disarmed and subdued by Israeli security agents, mid flight while trying to hijack the plane. She was released by the British after the plane landed in Heathrow.
Really, KSO, because I sure thought that I had read that the fence's route had been modified due to lawsuits from inside Israel... nah, couldn't be...
Really, KSO, because I sure thought that I had read that the fence's route had been modified due to lawsuits from inside Israel... nah, couldn't be...
Lawsuits by Israelis and international organisations, Palestinians can't sue the Israeli state legally.
So, presumably by using the same logic, if Israeli victims of Palestinian war crimes sue Palestinian perpetrators in the future, an arrest warrant will be issued for them too, and they will be arrested and held? .
This is for the court to decide, but people should have this right.
Mediocrates
09-13-2005, 03:52 PM
That is not a tort case it's a criminal case prosecuted by a foreign government. Huge difference.
Reffo
09-13-2005, 04:30 PM
This is for the court to decide, but people should have this right.Sure, they should have the right. And to be fair, Israeli and American victims too have used their rights to file civil law suits against the PLO in the USA. And I am aware of the initiation of even criminal law suits against dictators like Pinochet in the UK (I think, - but of course they eventually let him go), it would be nice though if they could be a bit more consistent in their interpretation of who they should or should not charge. Honestly, the release of a criminal like Laila Khaled, a hijacker who was caught red handed while committing a capital felony, was a disgrace. It was a classic case of appeasement and the Arabs sure got the message because they subsequently went on to hijack planes of all nationalities, well after they have given up any attempts to hijack El Al planes, because it was just too difficult. But some people never seem to want to learn from past mistakes, they just want to continue to appease the Arabs.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.