28% of Israel Not Jewish (Jerusalem Post)

[cerulean]

From the Jerusalem Post:

Slightly more than one in every four Israelis is not Jewish, according to a new study due to be released today by Bar-Ilan University's Rappaport Center for Assimilation, Research, and Strengthening Jewish Vitality.

The study comes on the heels of a statement released yesterday by demographer Hebrew University Sergio Della Pergola who heads the Institute of Contemporary Jewry that more Jews are emigrating from Israel than are immigrating.

...
http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1023716458562

========
The article mentions that half of those immigrating to Israel under the Law of Return are not Jewish (but related to or married to Jews).

Although not specifically mentioned in this article, demographic studies also indicate that within a given period of time, due to high Arab birth and relatively lower Jewish birth rates, that Jews might become a minority in Israel if current trends continue.

What, if anything, should be done and what are the likely effects of these demographics and demographic projections?

[Vic]

The article doesn't offer any statistics on the so-called non-halakhic Jews. Such people more often then not define themselves as Jews, yet they are expected to go through the whole conversion procedure sometimes just because they lack written proof of the Jewishness of their maternal grandmothers.

The trouble is that - afaik - it's mostly the educated and well-off who are leaving. Such "brain (and private finance) drains" have already had desastrous effects in other countries.

As to what can be done about it - the obvious, I suppose: decent living conditions, security situation, good employment and business chances *sigh*

Maybe a better access to higher education too, I know young Israelis who leave the country to study abroad just because they or their families cannot afford the Israeli university fees. Given the better material living conditions in the West they tend to stay too.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Vic
The article doesn't offer any statistics on the so-called non-halakhic Jews. Such people more often then not define themselves as Jews, yet they are expected to go through the whole conversion procedure sometimes just because they lack written proof of the Jewishness of their maternal grandmothers.


I assume the article above is discussing Jews by halachic definition only. I wonder what the statistic is for people who fall into the category of not being able to provide satisfactory proof? Obviously a lot of people from Europe and the former Soviet Union would have trouble getting such records, due to war and devastation during WWII, or subsequent bureaucratic chaos.


Maybe a better access to higher education too, I know young Israelis who leave the country to study abroad just because they or their families cannot afford the Israeli university fees. Given the better material living conditions in the West they tend to stay too. [/B]

So maybe a good charity project would be to fund more scholarships and bursaries for students to remain in Israel?

[elke]

It's equally true that many of those "non-Jews", from Russia anyway, consider themselves Israeli, know more about the history and culture of the Jews than do their Jewish spouses, and are generally extremely patriotic. They won't say that they are Jewish in the sensus - because technically they are not, but for all intents and purposes, if you define "Jewish" as identification with the culture, they are no demographic threat to Israel.

[Mediocrates]

Just like American Reform and Conservative convertions are now accepted it is becoming easier for non Orthodox to make aliyah and to be counted as 'Jew' on their identity card.

Only about 20-30% Israelis are what you would call strictly observant; otherwise it is a secular society.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Just like American Reform and Conservative convertions are now accepted it is becoming easier for non Orthodox to make aliyah and to be counted as 'Jew' on their identity card.

Only about 20-30% Israelis are what you would call strictly observant; otherwise it is a secular society.

I thought the identity cards were eliminated a few months back.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM


I thought the identity cards were eliminated a few months back.

...could be I thought the big change was that conservative and reform conversions weren't permitted to be stamped Jewish and now they are.

[cerulean]

Rabbi calls for mass conversions during IDF service

http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1023716471195

From the article:

Ish-Shalom said a recent survey conducted by the Dahaf Institute, under the direction of Dr. Mina Zemach, revealed that 87 percent of the non-Jewish immigrants wanted to feel part of the Jewish people, and that 14% wanted to convert to Judaism. He added that among those taking courses provided by the Institute, 80% wanted to convert.

...

Here is the Haaretz article on the same study mentioned in the first post:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=175853&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=175853

From the article:

Cohen discovered the true figures in the research of Prof. Arnon Sofer of Haifa University. For years, demographer Sofer has been monitoring with concern the dissolution of the Jewish majority in Israel. According to these statistics, updated as of the end of 2001, only 72 percent of the residents of Israel are Jews according to halakha, or traditional Jewish law - 5,000,000 people in all. Another 270,000, or 4 percent, are non-Jewish immigrants granted citizenship under the provisions of the Law of Return. Arab citizens of Israel account for another 18 percent, or 1.25 million. An additional 2 percent, or 150,000 people, are Palestinians illegally living in Israel. There are as well 280,000 foreign workers, representing another 4 percent of the total population. These figures will be among a range of other data Cohen is to present at the opening next Wednesday of a conference he initiated on the topic of "Israeli assimilation."

[alexbmn]

things arent as bad as they would seem.At first i was freaked by the number 72% but when I saw that it's five million Jews then it didnt look so bad. The Jewish population of Israel is still growing unlike in the USA.

[Vic]

Another peculiarity:

When the child falls through a loophole in Jewish law
Not knowing the intricacies of halakha can cause problems for generations to come
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=177011&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=177011
section 22 of the Population Registry Law states that a man cannot be registered as the father of the child of a woman who was married to another man within 300 days before the birth of the child, except by order of an authorized court or rabbinical court. The Interior Ministry clerk told her that by religious law, her son might be considered a mamzer (the offspring of incest or adultery between Jews) or a possible mamzer.

...

The terms "mamzer" and "possible mamzer" are religious ones, but impact on the civil law related to marriage and divorce.

...

Only religious marriages are recognized in Israel and the Interior Ministry only registers marriages carried out by the rabbinate (and marriages conducted abroad). That is why men and women seeking to register for marriage in the rabbinate sometimes discover, perhaps for the first time in their lives, that they are halakhically considered mamzerim or at least possible mamzerim, a status involving serious prohibitions, based on Deuteronomy 23:3: "A mamzer shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord, even unto the tenth generation shall he not enter in the congregation of the Lord." They will soon realize that their opportunities to marry in Israel are limited, not only for them, but for their future offspring as well. According to halakha - and the state - mamzerim can only marry other mamzerim or converts. A "possible mamzer" must have his or her status clarified before they can marry. Unless the rabbinical court releases a person from their status of being a mamzer, "according to halakha, a mamzer is forever," explains Rabbi Shlomo Dichovski, a member of the Great Rabbinical Court. Dichovski is aware that in view of the current norms, "the country should seemingly be filled with mamzerim, but in reality this does not occur because, in certain cases, the rabbinate releases people from their status as mamzerim, and over the years, the mamzerim become assimilated into the general population and are no longer recognized as such."

...

A "possible mamzer" is one whose mamzerut has not been proved and the circumstances of whose birth are not clear, for example, when the mother refuses to say who the father is and the father denies paternity. A child born to an unknown father and an unmarried mother is called a shtuki. A shtuki may not marry an ordinary Jewish woman, or a mamzeret - because she may only marry a definite mamzer - or a shtukit because she may ultimately turn out to be permissible.
Are "(possible) mamzers" full Jews for the statistics?

[Vic]

Welcome, converts

By MICHAEL FREUND
Jun. 19, 2002

http://www.jpost.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/Full&cid=1023716517775

[damnedyankee]

The ultimate outcome that will intercede in the cycle of violence would be a truely democratic Israel and a nascently democratic Palestine. This isn't dreaming, this isn't idealism, this is the only functional solution.

History has shown, after all the suffering and recriminations, after all the belligerents have exhausted all their options to the logical extremes, nothing less will work.

If Israel and Palestine are to become what their various peoples aspire to, they both have to turn their backs to patronage, revenge, hatred and theocracy.

It takes _real_ leadership to keep their eye on the right prize, the ultimate goal, not the immediate gratification of revenge or the ignorance of fear.

To do otherwise is to willfully ignore history and to ensure the continuance of the cycle of suffering and ignorance.

Respectfully,
--DY

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by damnedyankee
The ultimate outcome that will intercede in the cycle of violence would be a truely democratic Israel and a nascently democratic Palestine. This isn't dreaming, this isn't idealism, this is the only functional solution.


Yes, but show us how Israel isn't a true democracy.

[Vic]

Originally posted by damnedyankee
The ultimate outcome that will intercede in the cycle of violence would be a truely democratic Israel and a nascently democratic Palestine. Define "nascently democratic".

[damnedyankee]

Originally posted by Vic
Define "nascently democratic".

Define "define."

Nascent = new.

"Democratic," that's a whole long debate for another day.

[Mediocrates]

so you're going to skip it then....

[Mediocrates]

nascent means immature, no?

[redcake]

Are there any numbers to support the dwindling Jewish community here in the US?

I'd say it's a lot harder to gain much from Jewish population numbers because we are all so diverse in how we identify ourselves. There's safety in numbers, but how important is it to count those who don't even recognize their own Jewish-ness.

I'm not speaking of religious practices either. It mattered very little how religious or Jewish Daniel Pearl was. He was simply seen as being a Jew.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.613.org/study.html

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~zarathus/inter3.html
but that's mostly about Australia

[redcake]

Wow, thank you kindly for digging that up. Very interesting.

[cerulean]

redcake, here's a recent study from 2001:

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/ajis.pdf

Here's the Summary of Findings:


Nearly 4% of America’s 105 million residential households have at least one member who is Jewish by religion or is of Jewish parentage or upbringing or considers himself/herself Jewish.
The number of such households has increased since 1990 from about 3.2 million to about 3.9 million
The number of persons living in a household that has at least one member who is Jewish by-religion or parentage or upbringing or considers himself/herself Jewish has increased since 1990 from about 8 million to nearly 10 million.
About 5.5 million American adults are Jewish by religion or of Jewish parentage or upbringing or consider themselves Jewish.
About 3.6 million American adults (or just 65% of the 5.5 million total) have a Jewish mother.
More than 1.5 million American adults have only one Jewish parent.
The number of persons who regard themselves as Jewish by religion or say they are of Jewish parentage or upbringing but have no religion (the “core Jewish” population) has declined from about 5.5 million in 1990 to about 5.3 million in 2001.
The number of persons who are either currently Jewish or of Jewish origins has increased from about 6.8 million in 1990 to nearly 7.7 million in 2001.
The majority (73%) of America’s adults who are Jewish by religion or of Jewish parentage or upbringing but say they have no religion believe that God exists. But nearly half of this population regards itself as secular or somewhat secular in outlook.
About one million American households report affiliation with a Jewish congregation (synagogue, temple, or an independent havurah). That number represents an increase of some 15% over the 880,000 households reporting congregational affiliation in 1990.
About 44% of America’s adults who are Jewish by religion or say they are of Jewish parentage or upbringing report membership in a Jewish congregation (synagogue, temple, or an independent havurah).
The Reform branch of Judaism is the largest in terms of the number of adult adherents: about 1.1 million or 30% of America’s Jewish-by-religion adults or adults of Jewish parentage or upbringing identify with it.
The other branches of Judaism in size order are: Conservative Judaism with about 940,000 adult adherents (24% of the total), Orthodox Judaism with about 300,000 adult adherents (8% of the total), Secular Humanist Judaism with about 40,000 adherents and Reconstructionist Judaism with about 35,000 adherents (about 1% each).
Nearly one million American adults who are Jewish by religion or are of Jewish parentage or upbringing but say they have no religion are affiliated with some noncongregational Jewish community organization such as a Jewish community center or a
Jewish fraternal organization.
Nearly a third of America’s adults who are Jewish by religion or say they are of Jewish parentage or upbringing but have no religion have visited Israel. That figure represents a modest increase from the roughly 28% reporting visiting Israel in 1990.
Nearly 60% of adults who are Jewish by religion are married; of those who report being Jewish parentage or upbringing but of no religion, just 45% are married. More of the later group is likely to be separated or divorced or living in a non-marital couple relationship (cohabiting).
Of all adults married since 1990, who say they are Jewish by religion or of Jewish parentage or upbringing, just 40% are married to a spouse who is also of Jewish origins; 51% are married to a spouse who is not of Jewish origins and an additional 9% are married to a spouse who is a convert to Judaism.
Of all cohabiting adults who say they are Jewish by religion or of Jewish parentage or upbringing, 81% are living with a partner who is not of Jewish origins.

[elke]

Here is an interesting article regarding the proposed Law of Return amendment:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=183840&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=183840

"Leaving the door open

The recent attempt to amend the Law of Return to limit the immigration of grandchildren of Jews aroused a flurry of reactions - some expected, some less so - within the immigrant community and among its leaders."

[Vic]

And here is an article that greatly supports my personal experience, even in surroundings dominated by non-Jews, cf.: http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=15088#post15088 - almost too well ;) :

There is no need to fear intermarriage
By Eliahu Salpeter
Ha'aretz, Wednesday, July 10, 2002 Av 1, 5762
...

Since Judaism is the dominant religion in Israel, it is reasonable to assume that in most cases of intermarriage, the choice - of spouses and children - would be to join Judaism.

If the process is made easier, it can be assumed that within a generation or two, the non-Jewish immigrants will convert to and be assimilated into Judaism - even if it is a Judaism that does not observe all 613 commandments.

One unique factor that speeds up absorption of immigrants in Israel is service in the Israel Defense Forces. Even if their parents have not yet moved to Israel, young people are here and serving in the army. Sadly, barely a month goes by in which immigrants from the former Soviet Union, including halakhic non- Jews, are killed in the defense of the country. This is even though they and their parents know the religious establishment will not permit them to have a Jewish burial.

Judaism is both a religion and a nationality. This mutuality substantially eases the absorption of half-Jews into public and political life. Interestingly, the process of becoming Jewish, like immigration itself, draws many "Russians" to the extreme right. There is much evidence that nationalist tendencies are stronger in the spouse that has converted than in the Jew from birth.

...

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=185006&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=YConverts can be somewhat of a pain in the ass, not all of them for sure...

[cerulean]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=190091&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=190091

Wednesday, July 24, 2002 Av 15, 5762 Israel Time: 07:45 (GMT+3)

Come forth, marry and multiply for a strong Israel

An organization set up by a French immigrant is trying to promote an idea that was tried in Singapore and succeeded - government matchmaking. Its real agenda is to help solve the demographic problem.

By Yair Sheleg
...
======

[Pandora]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=190091&contrassID=2&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y&itemNo=190091

Wednesday, July 24, 2002 Av 15, 5762 Israel Time: 07:45 (GMT+3)

Come forth, marry and multiply for a strong Israel

An organization set up by a French immigrant is trying to promote an idea that was tried in Singapore and succeeded - government matchmaking. Its real agenda is to help solve the demographic problem.

By Yair Sheleg
...
======
Actually Jewish populations are shrinking -Palistinian pops are growing...thats the difference between rich and poor ha ha :)

[mjx30]

Does this include the West Bank and Gaza Strip also?

[physics]

Let's not forget that there are people who are not Jewish according to Halakah, but have Jewish fathers and identify as Jewish and love Israel. This strengthens Israel, unlike the majority of Israeli-Arabs, who certainly don't like Israel as much!

[ItsMyJewty]

damnedyankee: Nascent = new.


to be slightly more accurate nascent means emerging or "in its infancy"...

Don't understand why Israel is not truly democratic. Please explain

IMJ

[Elcomandante]

Many people who comes from Russia are not Jews because his mother is cristian, but the law of returns say if you have one granmother o grandfather jew you want to arribe to Israel.
My mother and my father are jews.

[KettleWhistle]

Would like a gold star for that? Or would a banner suffice?

[Elcomandante]

Sorry I don t undertand too much but yes I like a Gold Star:D I live in Ariel City in Samaria in 1997.

[ItsMyJewty]

Elcomandante: Sorry I don t undertand too much but yes I like a Gold Star I live in Ariel City in Samaria in 1997.

Wow, you know you strike me for understanding many of the complicated issue, yippeee findin' you again. I so look to see what you are say next time, El Castrato.


IMJ

[Elcomandante]

What is el castrato i am not a comunist my name is a tribute to Mordejai Anilevich, and you live in Francia I think you don t like very much the jews

[minusthejihad]

I'd like to personally thank TypicalArab for leaving such a typical Arab rant; heavy on emotion, slogans, and self-righteous agitprop fluff, light on logic, humility, and truth. So thanks, from the bottom of my heart. <edited by moderator>