View Full Version : From India to Israel
Bnei Menashe rejoin the tribe
By LINDA CHHAKCHHUAK
On September 16, Biakenga, an ethnic Mizo in his late 60s, came out of the specially constructed mikve at Zuangtui, a few kilometers from Aizawl, India, beaming with joy.
His two-and-half decade-old love story with Israel had just been consummated with him taking the final step of converting into Orthodox Judaism. The mikve (ritual bath) ceremony was conducted by a team of nine Israeli rabbis brought there for the purpose by Shavei Israel, an Israel-based organization that has set up centers in India recently.
The group, under the aegis of Sephardi Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, landed in Aizawl on September 13. On arrival, they held their Beit Din (Rabbinical Court) and pronounced an initial 198 persons fit to be Jews, later adding more during the mikve process.
The air was festive as young, old, children male and female gathered at the mikve, which was constructed hurriedly over the last three months under Rabbi Doron Malca, considered a specialist in constructing mikvaot. Rabbi Hanoch Avizedek, who had been in the area for more than two months, conducted the preliminary interviews. The next day, after Shabbat, 36 newly Judaized couples, were remarried according to Jewish law at the Shavei Center where there was much merry-making after the men crushed the custom ary glass under their feet.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1128955348429&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Ferdie
10-13-2005, 11:37 PM
Mizos are a lively people and Mizos who migrate to Israel will enrich the culture by their presence.
They are nice people.
Very lively and fun loving.
Ferdie
10-14-2005, 03:02 AM
They are nice people.
Very lively and fun loving.
..and good fighters too, except they need a jungle as a battle ground, They would be at sea in a desert.
They will adjust. I wonder how many of them are in India.
Any idea?
Ferdie
10-14-2005, 10:30 PM
They will adjust. I wonder how many of them are in India.
Any idea?
As per news reports there are about 7000 Mizo and Kuki Jews who claim to be 'Bnei Menashe’ Jews.
The Jews of India aren't one singular community. Among themselves they are divided into different communities. Each community has its own different culture, background and origin. Each community claims its arrival in India in different ways and it is not always clear how they really came to India. The three main Jewish communities of India are: Bene Israel, Cochini and Baghdadi. Besides there were Ashkenazi Jews and a community in east India which claim Israeli origin and call themselves Bne Menashe. The first three communities had some social religious connections with each other but most of the social religious connections of each community were within their own community and they regarded the other as ‘outsiders’
As already stated the Jews in India are not a single community and each community considers the other communities as outsiders. Beyond that in each community there were divisions. There was also tension between the communities especially between the Bene Israels and the Baghdadis. There were many reasons for the tensions between these communities. The Baghdadis came from Arab countries and their culture was Arabic originated. The Bene Israels culture was Indian originated. The Baghdadis strictly followed the Jewish ‘Halachah’ and were very strict on ‘kosher’ laws and ‘levirate’ marriages. The Bene Israels were more secular and didn’t keep at home two complete sets of utensils. One can claim from this that the Bene Israel were secular Jews but the Baghdadis preferred to regard the Bene Israel as impure or non Jews. The Baghdadis didn’t marry the Bene Israel. They also built their own synagogues and cemeteries or a wall in the cemetery separating their section from the Bene Israels. In their synagogues they prevented Bene Israels from holding the holy scrolls or blowing the ‘shofar’. They also didn’t count the Bene Israels as part of the ‘minyan’ (minimum ten required for the prayers). The Baghdadis also rejected the ‘Meyuhassim’ Cochini Jews but they intermingled with the ‘Pardesi’ Jews of Cochin and with European Jews who came to India. It must be noted that some Baghdadis had Indian non-Jewish wives whom they converted to Judaism. The Baghdadis even helped some high class Hindus to convert to Judaism. For these reasons there are some who believe that the real reason the Baghdadis didn’t accept the Bene Israels and Malabari Jews wasn’t because of the Jewish religious laws but for some specific reason.
One theory is that the richer Baghdadi Jews (who were international businessmen and also the leaders of the Baghdadi community) wanted to show the British that they don’t intermingle with ‘Indians’ (then considered by the British as low class) in order to get closer to the British aristocracy. Another reason was maybe the fear of the Baghdadi Jews that another Jewish community (Bene Israel) might take their place as the British ancillary around the world. The Iraqi Jews operated to some extent as ancillary of the British in many countries around the world. Many international deals for the British were done through the help of Iraqi Jews. On the other hand the Bene Israel claim that they also had close relations with the British. They were among the first Indian communities who served the British Empire and fought in many wars for them around the world. Therefore maybe the Iraqi Jews of India decided to neutralize somehow the Bene Israels and attacked their Jewishness causing them to engage in proving their Jewishness instead of engaging in developing close relations with the British.
In the Cochini Jews section, it is mentioned that there were tensions between the ‘Malabari’ and the ‘Pardesi’. According to the ‘Pardesi’ the ‘Malabaris’ weren’t pure Jews. Some claim that the real reasons for these divisions occurred are the same as those in the case of Baghdadi/Bene Israel. But in the case of Cochini Jews the ‘white’ Jews ( the ‘Pardesi’ Jews) wanted to show to the Dutch and the Portuguese (who had strong business holds in India before the British) that they are whites and not Indians, in order to get closer to them. These tensions and the doubt that maybe the ‘Meyuhassim’ aren’t Jews also affected the Bene Israel community and so they preferred cantors of ‘Pardesi’ origin.
Somewhere in the middle of the 20th century the different Jewish communities of India (except for the Manipur Jews) slowly started accepting each other as Jews. They started praying together. There were also a few marriages between the communities. In the synagogues built by the Baghdadi Jews there are now Bene Israel cantors. But not all the tensions that were between the communities are today completely forgotten.
One legend holds that the Jews first settled in India during the time of King Solomon, when there was trade in teak, ivory, spices and peacocks between the Land of Israel and the Malabar Coast, where Cochin is located. Others put their arrival at the time of the Assyrian exile in 722 B.C.E., the Babylonian exile in 586 or after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE No reliable evidence exists, but most contemporary scholars fix the date at some time during the early Middle Ages.
The earliest documentation of permanent Jewish settlements is on two copper plates now stored in Cochin's main synagogue. Engraved in the ancient Tamil language, they detail the privileges granted a certain Joseph Rabban by Bhaskara Ravi Varma, the fourth-century Hindu ruler of Malabar. According to the inscription, the ruler awarded the Jews the village of Anjuvannam, meaning "five castes," as the Jews were believed to be the lords of the five castes of artisans. The plates also state that Anjuvannam shall remain in the possession of the descendants of these Jews "so long as the world and moon exist."
Twelfth-century Jewish, Christian and Muslim travellers described Jewish settlements around Cochin. The main community was in Cranganore, north of Cochin. For a time the Jews of the Malabar Coast served as a way station to the Jewish community in China. In 1167 Benjamin of Tudela wrote of 1,000 Jews on the Malabar Coast "who are black like their neighbours and are good men, observers of the law, and possess the Torah of Moses, the Prophets, and some little knowledge of the Talmud and the halakha."
The Jews prospered in Anjuvannam for more than a thousand years after the grant of the copper plates. Then, with the extinction of the line of Rabban, dissension arose between two brothers of a noble family for the chieftanship of the principality The younger brother has supporters killed many on those who came under his elder brother, and neighbouring prioces intervened and dispossessed the Jews. In 1341 the brothers fled to Cochin with their followers and established the Kochangadi synagogue there.
In 1524, on the pretext that the Jews were tampering with the pepper trade, the Moors attacked the remaining Jews of Anjuvannam, burning their homes and synagogues.
The destruction was so complete that when the Portuguese arrived a few years later they found only destitute Jews, who continued to eke out a miserable existence for 40 more years. Finally, the remaining Jews deserted their ancient settlement and fled to Cochin.
As the Portuguese made inroads along the coast more Jews arrived in Cochin, which remained under Indian protection.
Spanish and Portuguese exiles came after the Inquisition, and others arrived fleeing persecution in the Middle East. In 1560 the Portuguese set up an office of the Inquisition in Goa, halfway between Bombay and Cochin, and even more Jews sought the protection of Cheraman Parumal, the raja of Cochin, soon labeled the "King of the Jews" by the Portuguese authorities.
The Jews could not have survived under Portuguese rule (1502-1663) had it not been for Parumal. In 1565 he gave them a strip of land next to his palace and in 1568 permitted them to build a synagogue not 30 yards from his temple. He appointed a hereditary mudaliar (chief) from among the Jews and invested the position with special privileges and jurisdiction in all internal matters in the Jewish community. This office continued in force under subsequent rajas and even under Dutch and British rule. The Hallegua family, which still holds the title, continues to be influential in Cochin.
There are few places in the world where Jews can claim centuries of peaceful coexistence with the local population . The district of Jew town in Cochin on the Malabar Coast of Southern India is one of them .
The Jewish community which has survived for more than a thousand years, witnessing successive waves of conquerors and traders, the Portuguese, the Dutch and the British. These foreigners, as well as the Jews who came before them, were enticed by the rich spices of this tropical coast: cardamom, cinnamon, ginger, and above all , pepper. But today most of the Jews have immigrated.
The present leader (elder) of the Cochin Jewtown Samuel Hallegua, whose own family came to Cochin in 1590 from Spain via Syria. The Pardesi synagogue in Cochin's Jewtown is a living history of the vibrant Jewish community of Cochin-Kerala.
With only few dozens of Jews left here yet a strong sense of community still exists in Cochin . Jewish identity is infused with the history of their ancestors in India. There is no contradiction that the Jews of India have pride in being both Indian and Jewish.
Their identity is infused with the history of their ancestors in India. Some scholars put it that Jewish settlers came to India almost 1500 years ago it was a local Hindi Mahraja who offered them sanctuary and land to build a synagogue.
The festivals are celebrated with a joyous enthusiasm. There is no rabbi so the elders lead the service and visitors and others join in. There are prayer books hand-written Hebrew as well as the local language Malayalam, and many of the melodies sung are unique to Cochin Jewry.
http://www.shalom2.20m.com/page3.htm
Judaism
India Table of Contents
Trade contacts between the Mediterranean region and the west coast of India probably led to the presence of small Jewish settlements in India as long ago as the early first millennium B.C. In Kerala a community of Jews tracing its origin to the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 has remained associated with the cities of Cranganore and Kochi (formerly known as Cochin) for at least 1,000 years. The Pardesi Synagogue in Kochi, rebuilt in 1568, is in the architectural style of Kerala but preserves the archaic ritual style of the Sephardic rite, with Babylonian and Yemenite influence as well. The Jews of Kochi, concentrated mostly in the old "Jew Town," were completely integrated into local culture, speaking Malayalam and taking local names while preserving their knowledge of Hebrew and contacts with Southwest Asia. A separate community of Jews, called the Bene Israel, had lived along the Konkan Coast in and around Bombay, Pune, and Ahmadabad for almost 2,000 years. Unlike the Kochi Jews, they became a village-based society and maintained little contact with other Jewish communities. They always remained within the orthodox Jewish fold, practicing the Sephardic rite without rabbis, with the synagogue as the center of religious and cultural life. A third group of Jews immigrated to India, beginning at the end of the eighteenth century, following the trade contacts established by the British Empire. These Baghdad Jews came mostly from the area of modern Iraq and settled in Bombay and Calcutta, where many of them became wealthy and participated in the economic leadership of these growing cities.
The population of the Kochi Jews, always small, had decreased from 5,000 in 1951 to about fifty in the early 1990s. During the same period, the Bene Israel decreased from about 20,000 to 5,000, while the Baghdad Jews declined from 5,000 to 250. Emigration to Australia, Israel, Britain, and North America accounts for most of this decline. According to the 1981 Indian census, there were 5,618 Jews in India, down from 5,825 in 1971. The 1991 census showed a further decline to 5,271, most of whom lived in Maharashtra and Mizoram.
India Table of Contents
Source: U.S. Library of Congress
http://countrystudies.us/india/60.htm
Toga,
Hope the information above helps.
Here is something about the Jews of my city, Calcutta.
How a Community of Expatriate Baghdadi Jews Traded Opium, Brought Mid-East Fare to Indian Shores
The Food Maven
By Matthew Goodman
If you're ever in Calcutta and find yourself with a sudden hankering for baklava, the place to go is Nahoum and Sons. Located in the city's New Market since 1902, the bakery features a wide range of pastries both savory and sweet, including many, like baklava, of Middle Eastern origin. More than the city's several ornate but almost empty synagogues, Nahoum's is the most tangible remnant of the Jewish community that once flourished in Calcutta.
At its high point, in the early decades of the 20th century, the Calcutta Jewish community totaled some 6,000 — not an insignificant number, to be sure, though scarcely a drop in a city of more than 4 million people. Still, for many years the community was able to maintain synagogues, schools, charities and a newspaper. All that came to an end in the 1930s and 1940s when, nervous about the growing strength of the Indian independence movement and the rise in nationalism and ethnic tensions, the Jews of Calcutta began to leave in large numbers, first to Great Britain and then to Israel and the United States. Today only a few score Jews still remain in the city.
Then as now, the Jews of Calcutta were known as the "Baghdadi" Jews, though they actually descend from several Middle Eastern countries, and the community's patriarch, Shalom Obadiah Ha-Cohen, emigrated to Calcutta not from Iraq but from Aleppo, Syria. Drawn by the success of several large British trading houses in the city, Ha-Cohen arrived in Calcutta in 1798 and set up shop as a trader in silks, cloth, diamonds and indigo.
Eventually word spread back to the Middle East about the money to be made in Calcutta, and by the second decade of the 19th century Jewish immigrants had begun to arrive in the city from Syria, Persia and Yemen. The 1820s and 1830s brought a wave of Jewish émigrés from Iraq, fleeing the rising persecution there; by the middle of the 19th century Iraqi (or "Baghdadi") Jews had become the majority of the community.
Developing a vast network of contacts among their co-religionists throughout Europe, the Middle East and Asia, the Baghdadi merchants traded in just about everything that was worth anything, from diamonds, ivory, silk and coral to spices, coffee and, perhaps most lucratively, opium. As Nathan Katz writes in his book "Who Are the Jews of India?" (University of California, 2000)" "Opium was the source of many Jewish fortunes.... Jewish merchants bought chests of opium at government auction and shipped them to members of their extended family in Penang, Singapore, Hong Kong, or Shanghai. They traded the opium to Chinese merchants in exchange for tea, which they sold for gold in England." This example of the triangle trade ended only in the early 20th century, when, after two wars over the issue, China finally managed to ban the traffic in opium; by that time the families who had made their fortunes in black tar had moved on to more stable ventures in real estate and cotton manufacture.
Of course, not all the Jews of Calcutta were traders. Many, like Nahoum Israel Mordecai of Nahoum and Sons, were confectioners, or grocers or the owners of small businesses; others went into professions or the civil service. Still, compared to the two other major Jewish communities in India, in Bombay and Cochin, the Jews of Calcutta were far more prosperous; moreover, both of those communities had been in India for many centuries, whereas the Baghdadi Jews were relative newcomers and did not as readily assimilate to the native culture. Arabic was their primary language until at least the end of the 19th century, at which point it was slowly eclipsed by English.
Similarly, the clothing worn by members of the Baghdadi community was mostly of Middle Eastern style until, again, the 20th century, when British dress became the vogue. The Baghdadi Jews identified themselves at once with their ancestors in the Middle East and with the British rulers of India, and they occupied a shifting, sometimes uncomfortable position between the British elite at the top of the social ladder and the native Indian masses at the bottom. They were holders, in a certain sense, of multiple passports, a status made evident in their unwieldy official designation as "Arabian Jews of the British Raj."
For some 150 years — until the community was decimated by emigration in the 1930s and 1940s — the Baghdadi Jews preserved a surprisingly unitary Middle Eastern culture in the midst of India's second most populous city. Happily enough, though, the gates around the house did not extend as far as the kitchen; there, in the realm of cuisine, the most interesting and productive interaction took place between the traditions of their erstwhile homeland and those of their newly adopted one. Sweet-and-sour dishes became infused with curry flavorings; the vast array of Middle Eastern dumplings and turnovers grew aromatic with the addition of ginger and turmeric; Middle Eastern stews were served alongside Indian rice pilaus, accompanied by fenugreek relish or mango chutney; desserts could be baklava or coconut cookies, or creamy puddings in which the milk of a coconut replaced that of a cow. In the kitchens of Calcutta's Jews, the Middle East made union with India, resulting in something entirely new, and indisputably great. Next time: The foods of Jewish Calcutta.
* * *
Aloo makala — whole potatoes that are peeled and then deep-fried — is the most celebrated and beloved dish in the repertoire of Calcutta Jewish cookery, the one that descendants of the community will invariably mention before all others. It was served on Friday nights, at weddings and for all other celebratory occasions. As was similarly true, for instance, of the chicken stew known as chakhokbili among Georgians, at one time women in the Calcutta Jewish community were judged by their ability to make a proper aloo makala.
The hybrid of Middle Eastern and Indian traditions is apparent in the name itself: aloo is Hindi for potato, and makala is derived from the Arabic word meaning "fried." Unlike, say, french fries, the potatoes in aloo makala do not cook quickly in hot oil, but rather simmer in the oil for a long time. The result is a potato that is white and creamy on the inside, while encased in a remarkably crisp golden-brown crust. Indeed, when aloo makala is made correctly, the outside is so crisp that it causes the potato to "jump" on the plate when pierced by a fork, which has led to the dish being nicknamed "jumping potatoes."
This recipe comes from Rahel Musleah of Great Neck, N.Y., whose family immigrated to the United States when she was 6. Hers was a distinguished Calcutta family: Her father, Rabbi Ezekiel Musleah, was the author of the highly regarded history "On the Banks of the Ganga," while her cousin, Mavis Hyman, wrote the books "Indian-Jewish Cooking" and "Jews of the Raj." Ms. Musleah is herself an author and educator who lectures widely on Indian Jewry.
Aloo Makala (Indian Deep-Fried Potatoes)
4 pounds small Russet potatoes, or larger ones cut in half, peeled
Peanut oil for frying
1. Bring a large pot of salted water to a boil. Add the potatoes and boil for 5 minutes. Drain and let cool.
2. Pierce the potatoes with a fork on all sides. Place them in a heavy, wide-bottomed pot and add peanut oil to cover.
3. Heat the oil over medium-high heat, then cook (do not stir) until tiny bubbles appear on the potatoes, about 15 minutes. Lower the heat to medium-low and let the potatoes continue to cook, stirring occasionally, until they are medium-gold, about two hours. (At this point, the heat can be turned off and the potatoes can remain in the oil until ready to serve, up to 3 hours.)
4. Just before serving, turn the heat to medium-high and fry the potatoes until they are very crisp and golden brown, about another 15 minutes. Use a slotted spoon to remove the potatoes and drain them on paper towels. Serve hot.
Serves 6.
Toga,
Hope the information above helps.
Thanks.
Aliph
10-17-2005, 04:30 PM
Another reason for the third world under developed Indians to migrate to a almost developed country Israel...Prove Jewish ancestry using fake and forged documents, migrate and live happily :D
Another reason for the third world under developed Indians to migrate to a almost developed country Israel...Prove Jewish ancestry using fake and forged documents, migrate and live happily :D
Right! Your ignorance is sickening.
Do you think they can fool the rabbis?
The reason you think that way is because you know NOTHING/VERY LITTLE about Jews/Judaism.
Arjun
10-17-2005, 07:12 PM
Aliph Location: Canada
Posts: 16 Another reason for the third world under developed Indians to migrate to a almost developed country Israel...Prove Jewish ancestry using fake and forged documents, migrate and live happily
I don't want to get in to childish quibbles. Some of the posts here are bereft of logic and full of contradictions which defies human intelligence that it is impossible to give a rational reply.
* I am sure he is not in Canada for the his love for Canadians or his philanthropic activities , he is there for economic reasons being from another 3rd world country.
* On one hand he claims that Israel is a developed country, on the other hand he claims that thousands of Indians are impersonating as Jews and by fooling Rabbis are entering in to ISrael. A developed country is supposed to have good checks and balances and advanced systems which make sure that unscrupulous people don't get in to the country.
* Now, how come an obscure tribe in India from Mizoram (a laid back state) and not being very educated at that is able to bluff Rabbis/Jewish Government/Israeli Intelligence (considered to be among the best in the world) and be able to get in to Israel by hoodwinking everybody in thousands.
*I am sure that papers can be forged but how come there are a number Synagogues all over India and some of them 100s of years old. I guess, you can't forge a Synagogue.......
* Anyone having have basic common sense knows that happiness is a relative term and is not being dependent upon being in any country. India might be a poorer country but the poors are much more happier that many of the poors in the world. There are some very rich countries who suffer much more in spite of being rich including his country Canada.India is a free democratic and secular country which provided equal opportunity to grow and it has some very very successful minority examples.
-Muslim President
-Sikh Prime Minister, Army Chief, Other Senior Officials
-Catholic Ruling Party Leader and Many Chief Ministers
-Some of top Army Leaders- Jewish- JFR Jacob, Yesteryear character artist David (none of them are frauds)
-Biggest Businesses- Parsi (Tata, Godrej), Muslim (Wipro)
-Top bollywood actors- Muslims, Christians
I would be glad to hear one country in the world whose top political leadership are not from the majority religion. Let any civilized country come forward and claim this distinction.
Aliph
10-17-2005, 08:07 PM
Actually Toga, his pea sized brain fails to comprehend how Jews could have thrived in a Non Jewish country for 100s of years and lived peacefully with the majority. They cleansed out all non-muslims from Pakistan whithin few years of their sovereignty.
He has just started to get some real education by coming to this forum after graduating from a madrasa.
Truth hurts? Doesnt it? Just wait how this 7,000 number swells to 100,000+. :D
Third world under developed Indians all lining up to migrate to almost developed world Israel. :p
Mediocrates
10-17-2005, 08:38 PM
Actually Toga, his pea sized brain fails to comprehend how Jews could have thrived in a Non Jewish country for 100s of years and lived peacefully with the majority. They cleansed out all non-muslims from Pakistan whithin few years of their sovereignty.
He has just started to get some real education by coming to this forum after graduating from a madrasa.
Be courteous or sit down, please.
Ferdie
10-17-2005, 09:57 PM
Another reason for the third world under developed Indians to migrate to a almost developed country Israel...Prove Jewish ancestry using fake and forged documents, migrate and live happily :D
Then what the hell are you Pakistanis doing in Canada?
Ferdie
10-17-2005, 10:01 PM
Be courteous or sit down, please.
That is unfair. This thread was carrying along nicely about the Jews from Mizoram (India) migrating to Israel, till Aliph came and added his 2 bit (see below)...
Originally Posted by Aliph
Another reason for the third world under developed Indians to migrate to a almost developed country Israel...Prove Jewish ancestry using fake and forged documents, migrate and live happily
The above post was uncalled for, but most of us are not used to the demented rants from the PDF orphans.
Truth hurts? Doesnt it? Just wait how this 7,000 number swells to 100,000+. :D
Third world under developed Indians all lining up to migrate to almost developed world Israel. :p
Do not worry for the rabbis! There is nobody more visionary and smarter than them.
Well - I know quite a few people who have discovered their Jewishness at a moment's ticket; ticket to the West.
Ferdie
10-18-2005, 02:30 AM
That may be true for some people, but migrating to Europe/Canada/UK/US or Australia is a norm but not to Israel. There is nothing that Israel offers that is not available in India.
There are many families who have relatives in Israel but they choose to stay in India and do not migrate.
KettleWhistle
10-18-2005, 02:30 AM
Do not worry for the rabbis! There is nobody more visionary and smarter than them.
The only things they have "vision" in is convincing certified morons like you that they know what they are talking about.
Aliph
10-18-2005, 08:42 AM
Well - I know quite a few people who have discovered their Jewishness at a moment's ticket; ticket to the West.
Mil, That is exactly what I intented to say. Under developed third world country Indians are no exception among the other third world countries.
Proud Infide, Under developed third world country Indians are no exception either when it comes to forging and faking documents in order to move to the developed countries. :-) and that is the truth ! :cool:
The only things they have "vision" in is convincing certified morons like you that they know what they are talking about.
They do know what they are talking about.
By Watcher:
Why do Israelis and Jewish people like Aryan Brahmin Nazi Indian Terrorists so much? Just because of Pakistan? These Aryan wanna be KKK cousins inspired great enemies of great Jewish People such as Hitler the nazi aryan terrorist. Who killed many innocent elite people of Germany and europe because of hate filled ideology inspired by Brahmin Indian terrorists.
Pakistan and Israel have made a good move towards friendship so Israel doesn't need to befriends with people who inspire people like Hitler and nazism through their Brahmin Indian dogma. Besides, india only accepted Israel after the fall of terrorist communists because they want to use Israel to get access to latest defence technology before they had communist terrorists to rely on and as friends and Israel was not even in the equation. See these brahmin Indian terrorists inspire nazi terrorists at one time, communist terrorists at another...
I think it comes from all the "Nazi-kill-a-Jew" rhetoric from your every-day Pakistanis who for some un-apparent reason are the biggest advocates of Arab causes . Apparently Pakistan happens to be one of the largest anti-semitic countries in the world with something like 94% of all people believing in various Jewish-Zionist conspiracies; according to the latest polls on anti-semitism. The weird part is that at least compared to other non-Jew-liking countries Pakistan really does not have at least single Jewish citizen (even compared to the neighboring Afganistan which has 1 Jewish citizen and one synagogue to go along) nor had Pakistan ever had at least a single Jew or a half-Jew or at least somebody quarter Jewish as a citizen in the past or a synagogue or at least a ruin of some trashed synagogue, to the example of your Arab friends who took a liking in destroying Jewish religious shrines. So either Pakistanis are stupid or they are, most likely, are prone to populist propoganda of their idiotic financial sponcers - the Arabs - which also makes Pakistanis - well, sorry to say it - stupid.
And why should the Jews, who have so many Nobel Laureats, be associated with somebody so unfortunately stupid? I think India looks like a much better choice in that regard . Don't you agree?
Unless of course Musharaff decides to build a synagogue in the middle of Islamabad and convert a few local morons into Jews and then we'll suddenly descover that apparently Pakistan was a home of some another lost tribe.... Of the Musharaf tribe.
Why do Israelis and Jewish people like Aryan Brahmin Nazi Indian Terrorists so much? Just because of Pakistan? These Aryan wanna be KKK cousins inspired great enemies of great Jewish People such as Hitler the nazi aryan terrorist. Who killed many innocent elite people of Germany and europe because of hate filled ideology inspired by Brahmin Indian terrorists.
Pakistan and Israel have made a good move towards friendship so Israel doesn't need to befriends with people who inspire people like Hitler and nazism through their Brahmin Indian dogma. Besides, india only accepted Israel after the fall of terrorist communists because they want to use Israel to get access to latest defence technology before they had communist terrorists to rely on and as friends and Israel was not even in the equation. See these brahmin Indian terrorists inspire nazi terrorists at one time, communist terrorists at another...
Do you have more anti-Indian venom?
Long Live India!
Actually, there are plenty of people who have lied about being Jewish to get into Israel. The minority of immigrants, but it happens. As a community, however, they probably have been veted.
Ferdie
10-18-2005, 09:41 PM
Actually, there are plenty of people who have lied about being Jewish to get into Israel. The minority of immigrants, but it happens. As a community, however, they probably have been veted.
That may be true about imigrants from CIS countries. But with reference to mizoram, the lushai people were converted by Baptists and Presbetarian missionaries who followed the British in the 19th century. When I was there as a kid I noticed a funny custom amongst the men that they wore a striped shawl over their heads during church service. I am to belive this is an age old custom of Jewish worship (correct me if I am wrong). If one goes to some houses you would find many Hebrew traditions.
The Mizos never claimed to be Jewish, but research carried out by Hebrew organisation to locate the lost tribes brought out this fact, which was being verified through DNA tests.
Mizos
Genetic testing conducted before April 2005 was unable to establish any paternal genetic link between the Kuki-Chin-Mizo people (who live in Myanmar and northeastern India) and Jewish communities of the world or even other Middle Eastern people, and a maternal genetic link was inconclusive. Some people had suggested, based on vague correlations, that the Mizos have Jewish-like practices, and pretended that the Mizo are really the descendants of the Israelite tribe of Menashe (B'nei Menashe).
Yair Sheleg. "In search of Jewish chromosomes in India What has genetic research uncovered about the origin of the Kuki tribe, which claims to have authentic Jewish roots and traditions?" Ha'aretz English Edition (Israel) (April 1, 2005). Excerpts:
"About five months ago the results of a study performed by a forensic laboratory in India (a kind of local equivalent of Israel's National Forensic Institute at Abu Kabir) were published concerning the genetic origins of the members of the Kuki-Chin-Mizo tribe. ... The study compared DNA samples taken from several hundred members of the tribe and from members of various other recognized Jewish communities, as well as from other tribes living near the Kuki (which served as a control group). ... On the one hand, no connection was found on the male side of the genetic chain (the Y chromosome) between the genetic profile of the Kuki and the Jewish profile, or the profile of Middle Eastern peoples in general. However, on the female side of the profile (what scientists call mitochondrial DNA) there is a certain resemblance to the genetic profile of Middle Eastern peoples and to that of the Jews of Uzbekistan (who also have a tradition of belonging to the 10 tribes) - a closeness that distinguishes the Kuki from the members of other tribes that live nearby. ... Bhaswar Miaty, one of the researchers, has told Haaretz that the initiative for the study came from the Indian government as part of a comprehensive study on the various groups in his country. ...in recent months a genetic study of the Bnei Menashe... has also been under way at the Technion - Israel Institute of Technology in Haifa. Prof. Karl Skorecki, the director of the Rappaport Family Institute for Research in Medical Sciences there, has told Haaretz that the research is being conducted by a method similar to that done in India: collecting samples of DNA from members of the Kuki tribe and comparing them, on the one hand, to the Jewish genetic profile and, on the other, to the genetic profile of tribes that live near the Kuki. According to Skorecki, his team has not yet reached the stage at which it is possible to draw any conclusions. 'We did receive the samples several months ago and we have started to examine the mitochondrial DNA, but we have not yet analyzed the data and we haven't examined the Y chromosome DNA at all yet,' he says. He also notes that it is hard to rely on the conclusions of the Indian study, at least as it has been published thus far: : 'From conversations that I have had with them it turns out that they did not do a complete `genetic sequencing' of all the DNA and therefore it is hard to rely on the conclusions derived from a `partial sequencing,' and they themselves admit this. It is possible in a `partial sequencing' to arrive at certain conclusions that would be overturned had they run a `full sequencing.' '"
Yair Sheleg. "Menashe in Myanmar." Ha'aretz English Edition (Israel) (September 19, 2002). Excerpt:
"To add another element to the 'Jewish' connection of the Kuki, [Hillel] Halkin is helping with plans to carry out genetic testing. This is slated to be performed in the near future by a group headed by Prof. Karl Skorecki of the Technion, who for several years now has specialized in research into Jewish genetics. The team will compare genetic findings from the Kuki with those of the Jews and thus attempt to examine common genetic roots. However, Halkin stresses in advance that 'even if a genetic match is not found, this would not refute my belief in this connection. The textual findings are simply too strong.'"
http://groups.msn.com/VoicesforAmerica/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=72132&LastModified=4675541975174130673
The Watcher
10-19-2005, 09:35 AM
Toga, not any more than you have for Pakistan, Islam and Muslims in general. Only difference between your venom, hatred is that YOUR IS based on LIES and STUPID allegations which you nor your government can PROVE. lol! Mine is purely based on asking QUESTIONS, REASON and logic. Refute if you can, dumbo.
My venom is to speak against xxxx INdian terrorism and deceptive tactics it uses to discredit pakistan with lies and distorted information thats all. Whats your beef based on? Allegations, lies, allegations, xxxx PROVE any of it. :D :rolleyes:
There everyone wants to Be managed, let it begin here.
Toga, not any more than you have for Pakistan, Islam and Muslims in general. Only difference between your venom, hatred is that YOUR IS based on LIES and STUPID allegations which you nor your government can PROVE. lol! Mine is purely based on asking QUESTIONS, REASON and logic. Refute if you can, dumbo.
My venom is to speak against xxxx INdian terrorism and deceptive tactics it uses to discredit pakistan with lies and distorted information thats all. Whats your beef based on? Allegations, lies, allegations, xxxx PROVE any of it. :D :rolleyes:
There everyone wants to Be managed, let it begin here.
Please do not compare us.
#1. I am very neutral to Pakistan
#2. I have only respect for Islam even if it has been hijacked by the radical, terrorist groups and tyrannical regimes
#3. Jews in general do not have a conflict with Islam or Christianity even if the 2 major religions are not applicaple to Jews.
My analysis are based on the statistical data. India is on the right path. It is going to become an economic giant. It is advancing.
Why cannot Pakistan join in? What is with the of accepting the aid from Israel indirectly of having or not having a good relationship with Israel. Israel is far away. There is NO conflict of any sort between Israel and Pakistan or Israelis and Pakistanis.
Cannot you understand that the Pakistani policies are slowing down the Pakistani advancement?
Pakistan's terrorist issues, its actions in Bangladesh, its poll results, etc. are all well documented, Watcher.
Meanwhile, your allegations about Israel are at best out of context and at worst just plain old lies. YOU can't prove anything except by sources which live in exagerations and conspiracy theories.
There is a big difference between Western and Middle-Eastern cultures, generally. The middle-east is prone to story telling as a form of culture, where details and facts matter much less than passion and the ability to spin a yarn. Its well known culturally, and it needs to be taken into account when evaluating the credibility of sources. Like I said, you don't have any proof or knowledge of anything, and the allegations made about Pakistan are well supported. Deal with it.
Ferdie
10-26-2005, 02:16 AM
Just to reactivate this thread, here is something on Israeli tourists in Himachal, India...
(Himachal Pradesh is a state in northern India).
http://www.indiatraveltimes.com/focus/focus2005/july05.html
Himachal's Kasol --a hub for Israeli tourists
Kasol (Kullu): The beautiful village of Kasol in Kullu district has recently transformed into a hub for Israeli tourists for it's greenery and mountains. The forests of Pines border this beautiful village of Kasol. "The mountains, the green, the rivers and the second thing is that it's only day time in Israel and so now many people can go to travel," said Dacel, an Israeli tourist. The population here is balanced equally between Himachalis (local residents of Himachal) and foreign-settlers, especially the Israelis. Kasol, a paradise, is an open space by the banks of the Parbati river. The clean white sands and green grass makes it a beautiful place. Cooking in the wild is always enjoyable and pancakes and apple- pies are easily available from the German Bakery in the village.The restaurants at Kasol cater to the taste of these tourists. Israeli cuisine and other varieties are enjoyed by the tourists. "Israelis come in large numbers and that is why the restaurants cater to their taste and prepare Israeli food since this kind of food is in demand," said Hira, local restaurant owner. Most of the young Israelis come here to enjoy the nature. They feel that since the situation in their country is tense and this small village provides some respite to them. "This is a beautiful valley. We come here to see the view, to travel here, and to rest... They have everything here. It's comfortable here and we have food from all over the world and Israeli food.Yes, it's very tense in Israel and we come here to forget about it," said Amitaien, an Israeli tourist. Even the boards and banners in the restaurants are written in Israeli language for the convenience of the tourists. The shops in the small village of Kasol have western clothes and the demand for them is high. But most of these tourists are addicted to drugs which has its influence on the local youth . They are being drawn towards the Israeli culture. Regardless of these factors, Kasol is a pleasant place for a vacation and the memory of traveling through the orchards lingers long in the hearts of the tourists. Kullu is located amidst the Himalayas at an altitude of 1,200 meter above sea level at the confluence of Beas and Sarvari rivers. It is 240 km north of Shimla. Summers are mild and winters are cold. It experiences southwestern monsoon rains in July-September. Kasol, located on the banks of river Parvati, is amongst the many splendid spots that dot the Kullu valley. It is an angler's paradise, as it offers excellent opportunities for fishing trout.
-July 8, 2005
....ignore the comment on drugs, since it is common for all tourists.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.