Sharia, Wahhabism and the beliefs inentire Muslim world

[Mr. Pumps]

:confused: I hear things like Islamic Fundimentalism, Sharia law, Wahhabism religious sect of Islam, hatred of the Kafirs, jihad.

There is 1.7 billion Muslims in the world and they all follow the Koran, but what is the most reliable figure of how many follow the terms I have said above.

Does the Koran require that all Muslims be a member of Islamic Fundimentalism, Sharia law, Wahhabism religious sect of Islam, hatred of the Kafirs, jihad...etc or Is it a certain group's choosing(As I hear it %10-15 of Muslims follow a extremist view) .

[ibrodsky]

I believe the more accurate figure is 1.2 billion Muslims.

There are two problems I see with Islam:

1. Unlike Judaism and Christianity, Islam has not been modernized. While Judaism and Christianity are interpreted according to modern values -- values shaped by Maimonides, Aquinas, and the Enlightment -- the Islam of Mohammed's day is still widely considered "true Islam."

2. The Islamic moral system is, at best, unclear. Are the "people of the book" to be treated with honor and respect, or are they infidels to be conquered and treated as second-class citizens? While today some Muslims claim "jihad" has more to do with personal struggle (e.g., quitting smoking), there is considerable evidence that "jihad" most properly refers to military campaigns.

As best I can tell, there are three major groups of Muslims:

* Islamicists (militant Islam) bent on destroying the West;
* Muslims who yearn for Islam to recapture its former glory (power) and are largely sympathetic with Islamicists;
* Muslims who want to live in peace and prosperity like most other people.

We need to encourage the last group and convince them that Islamicists and their sympathizers are a threat to all good people, regardless of religion.

[cerulean]

The first part of the Koran is more peaceful than the second part. At this time, Mohammed still hoped to convert the Jews and Christians in the area to Islam. This effort failed. The second part of the Koran is the vicious, murderous part in response to this failed effort.

[Mr. Pumps]

I am in a argument with a guy in another forum about Russia concerning the Islamic Religion and the future cohesion of the Russian state.

I am concerned the Russian state is on thin ice in the future as Russians like Christians, Jews, Athiests die more than are than are given birth too. And Islam and Muslims grow exponentially in Russia now and in the future because theier birthrate is five times higher.

I point out Chechnya is a example of how Muslim fanatics can rip apart the Russian nation and how inadequate it's army is at dealting with Islamic seperatist movements. And there are several potential Chechnya's on Russian terrority right now...Dagestan, Tartarstan...etc.

Instead the guy rabbles on excusing the problem as nothing and has the gull to call to my face me a facist because I want action for all other groups to have more childern as to always Keep Muslims a harmless percentage of the Population and not the catasrophic majority.

I say to Him his additude caters to the Islamic groups ready to carve Russia into little Taliban and Iranian societies of the Wabbihism sect and his Pacifist left- leaning views are harmful at this time, but he still does'nt listen.

[Mr. Pumps]

:D And how many Muslims, Ibrodsky, is in Catigory 3: Understanding and Peaceful Muslims.

For if they are a limited minority than why bother reaching them...eh!

[cerulean]

Mr. Pumps, I have to say I find your signature file offensive. Why not quote Keats or something?

[Mr. Pumps]

Originally posted by cerulean
Mr. Pumps, I have to say I find your signature file offensive. Why not quote Keats or something?

:rolleyes: Better Mr. Moral Authority.......Sheesh!

[cerulean]

That signature is a slight improvement. Thank you.

[ibrodsky]

I suspect they are the majority.

Still, the second group is probably a large minority.

[Mr. Pumps]

Originally posted by cerulean
That signature is a slight improvement. Thank you.

:D :D :D Well boy... There a few things that are certain in life Love and War.

And I was ever given a gun and had to Fight agianst Muslims like heroic Israel is doing.

I would shack up with every lady I could find...before potentially dying in a combat zone or territory. And as a tanker I would shack up even more because I am a hero. As your tankers should be considered national heros at the moment.

And maybe shacking up with a lesbian and her mate too......Yeah, baby, Yeah.

[elke]

I don't really know terribly much about Islam, but is it possible that the 2nd half was not even written by Mohammed? Or "improved upon" by some zealous supporter?

From what I've read, the Islamic Empire was indeed a relative heaven for Jews (compared to the Christian Europe in the Middle Ages). My sources suggested that at times, it wasn't even the matter of a "court Jew" type of situation, but a real tolerance. When the Christians began to push the Arabs out of Iberian Peninsula, they had to call upon the North African Muslims, who were much more intolerant. As a reward for their help, the Arabs allowed the North Africans to try to convert the remaining Jews and Christians.

As far as I know, the information I read was not provided by "Arabist" sources. It was a smattering of various books and articles, mainly in pre-internet times (yes, I am getting old :) ).

There are some pretty nasty things in the Bible as well, so you can't really judge a religion solely by its Holy Book. IBrodsky is right, IMO, that both Judaism and Christianity have modernized, and that's the main difference.

[Mediocrates]

nice sig - midget hentai scat porn rules.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by elke
I don't really know terribly much about Islam, but is it possible that the 2nd half was not even written by Mohammed? Or "improved upon" by some zealous supporter?

There is a book by an Iranian Muslim dissident, Ali Dashti, who lived in the first half of the 20th century in which he argues that there were, in effect, two Mohammeds. During his early years, Mohammed spent a great deal of time alone (he was a shepherd) and it was then that he developed his theology.

Later, after he gained a following, he acted very differently. Dashti cites one case in which Mohammed announced a "revelation" that coincidentally permitted him to break a tradition in order to take a third wife.

From what I've read, the Islamic Empire was indeed a relative heaven for Jews (compared to the Christian Europe in the Middle Ages). My sources suggested that at times, it wasn't even the matter of a "court Jew" type of situation, but a real tolerance. When the Christians began to push the Arabs out of Iberian Peninsula, they had to call upon the North African Muslims, who were much more intolerant. As a reward for their help, the Arabs allowed the North Africans to try to convert the remaining Jews and Christians.

Relative to certain torture and death, yes. But the "Golden Age" between Muslims and Jews that some Muslims claim is historical nonsense. (This is part of the Big Lie that Islamists only hate Zionists, not Jews.) Jews were treated as second class citizens (dhimmi) at best, and the victims of pogroms at worst. As I recall, Maimonides was forced to move at least once if not twice to escape persecution from Muslims.

Maimonides shed light on this when he counseled Jews to recite the words they were forced to recite by Muslim authorities, telling them that it was OK to do so to escape death at the hands of their tormentors. I.e., better to say something you don't believe under duress in order to live to fight another day...