What is a Jew? [Archive]

Toga

11-07-2005, 09:54 PM

Reuven Hammer, THE JERUSALEM POST Nov. 3, 2005

Who is a Jew? This question is endlessly debated, and has become the source of controversy in the Knesset as well as in rabbinical circles.

There is another related question, however, that should command our attention and seldom does, and that is: What is a Jew? What are the qualities and characteristics that, according to the tradition, make us what we are or what we should be?

There are many sources that deal with this, all of which have a common answer: A Jew is one who follows the ways of goodness and decency in human relationships. Let us look at three formulations of this basic truth.

One such formulation is given in Pirkei Avot, a general guide to Jewish living and the only section of the Mishnah that deals with questions of belief and theology:

Whoever possesses these three qualities is a disciple of our father Abraham: a generous spirit, a humble soul, a modest appetite [not greedy].

Whoever possesses these three qualities is a disciple of the wicked Balaam: a grudging spirit, an arrogant soul, an insatiable appetite. (Avot 5:21)

These specific qualities were derived from verses in the Torah describing the lives of these two men. The important thing is the qualities that the Sages identified with the father of our people and wanted to inculcate in us as the proper way to live. Note that they use the phrase "disciples of" rather than "children of," to indicate that biological descent is not critical. It is more important to be a disciple of Abraham, to live according to his ways and his teachings, than to be a biological descendant of him.

One who takes pride in being a Jew should consider that conduct is more important than birth. One can be a Jew by accident of birth, but one is worthy of being a disciple of Abraham only if one shares Abraham's qualities. Modesty, humility and generosity are the marks of the true Jew.

A second source teaching us the qualities that define a Jew is found in the words of the prophet Jeremiah:

"Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom; Let not the strong man glory in his strength; Let not the rich man glory in his riches. But only in this should one glory: In his earnest devotion to Me. For I the Lord act with kindness, justice and equity in the world; for in these I delight." (Jer. 9:22)

A Jew is defined as one who acts with kindness toward others and promotes justice and equity among human beings. Wisdom, physical strength and wealth are not the ultimate goals of life, rather they must be used to achieve social justice in the society in which we live.

Jeremiah has a unique definition of devotion to God, of closeness to the Almighty. It is not to be found in piety, not in worship or sacrifice, not even in observance of rituals, important as these may be. The first measure of devotion is in one's conduct toward others, a mixture of kindness and justice. In a world filled with corruption, favoritism and inequality, the Jew is one who works to eliminate these injustices and establish instead a society that will bring delight to God.

Finally there is the answer given by Hillel to the potential proselyte, who asked to be taught the whole Torah standing on one foot. "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow human being," replied Hillel, "that is the whole Torah. Go study," (Shabbat 31a) giving a negative Aramaic formula of the verse "Love your fellow as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18). The same answer was given a hundred plus years later by Akiva, who called that verse "A great general rule of the Torah" (Y. Nedarim 9:4).

Obviously neither Hillel nor Akiva were contemptuous of all the other commandments in the Torah, nor did they wish to eliminate rituals. What they were saying was that the goal of all the observances in the Torah is the creation of a human being who will act lovingly toward all others. If that is not achieved, the observances have not attained their goals.

What, then, is a Jew - a true Jew, an ideal Jew from the view of the tradition itself? A person of humility and generosity, devoted to the creation of an equitable, just society built on kindness; one who in all his or her dealings demonstrates love toward others. Yes, there are formal rules that govern the question of one's Jewishness, but far more important are the teachings that define for us what it means to be a Jew - a true disciple of Abraham, of the prophets, of Hillel and Akiva. That should be the content of our teachings and the way in which we measure Jewishness. It is the goal of Jewish living, a goal that is far from being achieved but worthy of our best endeavors.
The writer is the head of the Rabbinical Court of the Masorti Movement and the Rabbinical Assembly of Israel.

SteveK

11-08-2005, 01:00 PM

Reuven Hammer, THE JERUSALEM POST Nov. 3, 2005

Who is a Jew? This question is endlessly debated, and has become the source of controversy in the Knesset as well as in rabbinical circles.

[...]

Whoever possesses these three qualities is a disciple of our father Abraham: a generous spirit, a humble soul, a modest appetite [not greedy].

[...]

The writer is the head of the Rabbinical Court of the Masorti Movement and the Rabbinical Assembly of Israel.

But, who are these Jews who have transplanted the Jewish heritage to Christian lands, where they can suck up the good life, and take advantage of protection, from Christian societies?

Would Abraham agree that these diaspora Jews are generous spirits, humble souls, and modest appetites [not greedy]?

I think the diaspora Jews are a bunch of pigs who are just worshipping the golden calf. I think the Prophet Ezekiel (34) sums it up about their Jewish religious movements,---- "Woe to the Shepherds of Israel who feed themselves and not their flocks ....".

I think that the diaspora swamp has to be drained. An infested quagmire measuring centuries in depth and internationally in breadth,--- the breeding grounds for these Reform and Conservative "rabbis" who bring nothing but sickness to the Jewish People,--- from feverish levels of "serving God through home armchair spirituality" to cold chills of denying their true heritage as a united sovereign people in their Jewish Homeland, Israel.

minusthejihad

11-08-2005, 01:35 PM

physics

11-08-2005, 01:36 PM

From a non-religious perspective, a Jew was always the scapegoat in foreign lands. A Jew was always reminded what/who he was during bad times.

A Jew was also a person that died in Holocaust. I'll be damned if anyone doesn't recognize Holocaust victims as Jews just because they were not religious.

Religion isn't the only factor that defines a Jew.

SteveK

11-08-2005, 01:50 PM

Without us diaspora Jews or us secular or reform Jews, there would seriously be about 8 of you guys and you would still be b!tching. Enough already. This subject is trite. And I'm sure your hatred of other Jews (wether you consider them real or not) is no Mitzvah!

OK. But, wouldn't you and physics prefer visiting Auschwitz? I think your Jewish identity is defined more there,--- than in your own Jewish Homeland,--- and living here as a Jew is a MITZVAH!!!

minusthejihad

11-08-2005, 01:57 PM

By your logic, what exactly did us Jews become when we were unable to live or return to Eretz Yisrael? Were we evil Diaspora Jews when we were without our homeland?

minusthejihad

11-08-2005, 01:58 PM

SteveK

11-08-2005, 02:01 PM

By your logic, what exactly did us Jews become when we were unable to live or return to Eretz Yisrael? Were we evil Diaspora Jews when we were without our homeland?

It's 2005. The State of Israel, the Jewish Homeland, was declared an independent State in 1948.

You f***ing diaspora Jews. Where are you?

minusthejihad

11-08-2005, 02:08 PM

It's 2005. The State of Israel, the Jewish Homeland, was declared an independent State in 1948.

You f***ing diaspora Jews. Where are you?

So you don't want to answer the question?

Waht would you call us f***ing diaspora Jews in 1928?

Mil

11-08-2005, 08:47 PM

Jews are an ethnic group. The converts are none-ethnic believers in Judaism.

Toga

11-08-2005, 09:31 PM

Jews are an ethnic group. The converts are none-ethnic believers in Judaism.

Why do you have a need to differentiate? Any properly converted person is as Jewish as a Jew born to a Jewish mother.

http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

SteveK

11-09-2005, 12:41 PM

So you don't want to answer the question?

Waht would you call us f***ing diaspora Jews in 1928?

Hi minusthejihad:

What would I call you f***ing diaspora Jews in 1928?

Let's go back 8 years to 1920:

" JEWISH PEOPLE, WHERE ARE YOU? "

Pillar of Fire
By Yigal Lossin
The Rebirth of Israel - A Visual History

The Arab national movement in Palestine was in its infancy and was incapable of interfering. Had they so desired, the Jews could have returned to the Promised Land en masse and might even have established a Jewish State prior to the Holocaust. This, as we know, did not happen. During that very same month, July 1920, the President of the Zionist Federation, Dr. Chaim Weizmann, uttered his famous appeal: "Jewish People, where are you?"

minusthejihad

11-09-2005, 01:12 PM

So just "Jewish People"? Then why do YOU use f****** Diaspora Jews then?

SteveK

11-09-2005, 01:49 PM

So just "Jewish People"? Then why do YOU use f****** Diaspora Jews then?

minusthejihad:

You are such a little American Jewish brat. Do you talk with nasal twang too?

I'm sure that Chaim Weitzmann must have at least been thinking about "YOU f***ing Diaspora Jews".

Go find another dreidel to spin for Hannukah.

minusthejihad

11-09-2005, 01:53 PM

minusthejihad:

You are such a little American Jewish brat. Do you talk with nasal twang too?

I'm sure that Chaim Weitzmann must have at least been thinking about "YOU f***ing Diaspora Jews".

Go find another dreidel to spin for Hannukah.

Gee. And I thought Jewish law taught us to be courteous to each other. Thank god you don't work for the Tourism Ministry. After seeing your rants I wouldn't be surprised if many diaspora Jews changed their minds about making Aliya. Then again, if Ophra and you are the extremes of Israeli society, maybe there is a place between you zealots for the mormal ones.

No I don't have a nasal twang, I'm not a NY Jew. But my cousins do, I like it myself.

SteveK

11-09-2005, 01:56 PM

Gee. And I thought Jewish law taught us to be courteous to each other. Thank god you don't work for the Tourism Ministry. After seeing your rants I wouldn't be surprised if many diaspora Jews changed their minds about making Aliya. Then again, if Ophra and you are the extremes of Israeli society, maybe there is a place between you zealots for the mormal ones.

No I don't have a nasal twang, I'm not a NY Jew. But my cousins do, I like it myself.

To put it mildly. You are full of $hit.

minusthejihad

11-09-2005, 03:00 PM

To put it mildly. You are full of $hit.
About which part @hole?

SteveK

11-10-2005, 01:39 PM

About which part @hole?

Maybe I should ask Ophra to have her son write you another pm.

Sheherazade

11-10-2005, 03:13 PM

where would Israel be? Perhaps we should all refrain from sending funds, after all we are not good enough.

SteveK

11-11-2005, 01:06 AM

where would Israel be? Perhaps we should all refrain from sending funds, after all we are not good enough.

Excellent idea!!!

The best thing to happen to Israel, the sovereign Jewish Homeland, would be a complete separation between a sovereign Jewish Nation here in Israel and you diaspora religious sects (with your Reform and Conservative converts) doing nothing more than perverting Torah and God's will for His Chosen People to settle all His Land of Israel.

Torah leaders here in Israel need first to stop sucking up to you diaspora gluttons worshipping your golden calf.

Let me be the first to tell you: F*** OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

minusthejihad

11-11-2005, 09:04 AM

Ok SteveK, I think your time and mission here has run its course. You haven't done a thing to benefit Israel or Judaism. As far as I am concerned you should be banned.

Sheherazade

11-11-2005, 05:29 PM

Excellent idea!!!

The best thing to happen to Israel, the sovereign Jewish Homeland, would be a complete separation between a sovereign Jewish Nation here in Israel and you diaspora religious sects (with your Reform and Conservative converts) doing nothing more than perverting Torah and God's will for His Chosen People to settle all His Land of Israel.

Torah leaders here in Israel need first to stop sucking up to you diaspora gluttons worshipping your golden calf.

Let me be the first to tell you: F*** OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a fine example of a pious Jew.
Without the diaspora Jews lobbying, how much US dollars do you think Israel would get?

Toga

11-11-2005, 06:04 PM

What a fine example of a pious Jew.
Without the diaspora Jews lobbying, how much US dollars do you think Israel would get?

Obviously, you have been fed a lot of anti-Israel poison. The GNP of Israel exceeds $100B. The US aid amounts to $2.5B or roughly 2% of the Israeli GNP. In addition, there are many strings attached to our aid as Israel must procure the military hardware from the USA which provides employment to many American workers and increases the shareholders equity of the defense contractors. Plus our aid gives us a lot of leverage as Israel had to integrate our interests into its domestic and foreign policy. Do you think America is stupid to give $$ away without getting the benefits in return? Why don't you learn something prior to spewing your ignorant venom?

Sheherazade

11-11-2005, 06:30 PM

So then you really don't need those donations from the diaspora Jews.

Mil

11-11-2005, 08:07 PM

Posted by SteveK:

The best thing to happen to Israel, the sovereign Jewish Homeland, would be a complete separation between a sovereign Jewish Nation here in Israel and you diaspora religious sects (with your Reform and Conservative converts) doing nothing more than perverting Torah and God's will for His Chosen People to settle all His Land of Israel.

Blah, blah, blah.... blah, blah... blah, blah

Torah leaders here in Israel need first to stop sucking up to you diaspora gluttons worshipping your golden calf.

blah, blah, blah...

Let me be the first to tell you: F*** OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank but I have to warn you.... I am circumcized.

SteveK

11-12-2005, 09:05 AM

Ok SteveK, I think your time and mission here has run its course. You haven't done a thing to benefit Israel or Judaism. As far as I am concerned you should be banned.

The real Israel Forum, THE SOVEREIGN JEWISH HOMELAND is MY COUNTRY and not yours.

Waiving your American and Israeli flags in the faces of your Christian hosts from whose societies you suck off the good life and depend for protection of your suburban ghettos says and does absolutely nothing for Israel or Judaism.

And then you bite the Christian hand that feeds and protects you by ranting and raving with your diaspora neuroses and psychoses against any assimilation with your Christian hosts, and over their anti-semitism,--- because the Christians don't want you as members in their Country Clubs.
It's more than enough to let you diaspora Jews be citizens in their Country.

But, you diaspora phonies are having a good time, and making a few bucks.

Ding. Dong.

Your doorbell is ringing, minusthejihad. The Christians have come to tell you the truth about living in their land. Why don't you invite them in and return some of the hospitality that they continue to show you and your kind.

But, serve them refreshments minustheketchup.

SteveK

11-12-2005, 09:25 AM

So then you really don't need those donations from the diaspora Jews.

Why not help needy Christians (or Christian candidates for government) who host you in their land of America? Wouldn't you feel better to give back to your Christian society to those from whom you suck off the goodlife and depend for your protection of your suburban Jewish ghettos in their land?

Israel is not giving you the goodlife that you gluttons crave, and Israel is not defending you diaspora Jewish gluttons either.

Your fellow Christian Americans (lots of them and many many many times the population of you diaspora Jews) are giving you the good life to suck off, and the protection of your ghettos.

So, go help thy Christian brethern.

SteveK

11-12-2005, 11:31 AM

Toga

11-12-2005, 11:51 AM

So then you really don't need those donations from the diaspora Jews.

The Diaspora Jewish donations are not only helping Israel but also the Diaspora Jews. A strong Jewish state of Israel allows us in the Diaspora to walk with our heads up instead of down. In addition, the Jewish destiny is very unpredictable. Israel is our insurance!

Mira

11-12-2005, 12:20 PM

Shalom from Tel Aviv. :)

Sheherazade

11-12-2005, 03:22 PM

The Diaspora Jewish donations are not only helping Israel but also the Diaspora Jews. A strong Jewish state of Israel allows us in the Diaspora to walk with our heads up instead of down. In addition, the Jewish destiny is very unpredictable. Israel is our insurance!

I don't think I agree with you. It is not because of the State of Israel that I can walk with my head up. I don't do well with scare tactics. According to Steve K and you, I am oppressed and a 'guest' in my own country. I don't see it that way. Perhaps that is the impression that the Israeli government wants to give, but it is not true.

MGB8

11-12-2005, 03:34 PM

Sheherazade

11-12-2005, 05:59 PM

We are citizens, not guests.

But we are also a small minority, at the whim and will of a majority population (or populations, multiple groups) that can, like the believed to be enlightened Germans, decided that Jews are no longer wanted in the Country.

Do you really think that is what may happen? Can the US at this time in history be compared to Germany in the 1930's. Again, scare tactics. Just why would they decide that Jews are no longer wanted in this country, on what premise?

MGB8

11-12-2005, 10:03 PM

Listen to David Duke, Pat Buchanon, and others. And this is when the economy is pretty good. You get the economy doing badly over a decade, like what happened in Germany... people want scapegoats.

SteveK

11-13-2005, 01:37 PM

Do you really think that is what may happen? Can the US at this time in history be compared to Germany in the 1930's. Again, scare tactics. Just why would they decide that Jews are no longer wanted in this country, on what premise?

I don't think that the American Christians will come to the point of no longer wanting you diaspora Jews. I think that you diaspora Jews will more and more want to assimilate with your fellow Americans as fellow American citizens,--- maybe not as members of their Christian religion,--- but on a trend which defines you less and less associated with a definitive "Jewish Nation" in their midst.

Quite frankly, you American diaspora Jews should be waving only the American flag in your fellow Christian countrymen's faces. But, if Japanese Americans and Italian Americans also waive their respective flags of their "old countries", then I suppose you American Jews can keep waiving the Israeli flag too.

But, I don't think that it's a good idea to keep telling your fellow Americans that Israel is an insurance policy for your survival. I think even the Japanese and Italian Americans convey a stronger sense of loyalty, and belonging to their real mutual homeland, than do you Jewish Americans,--- America.

Mediocrates

11-13-2005, 02:56 PM

How's that racism working for you? Good? Feel good to copy/paste from hatespeech sites?

I'm 98% sure your response will be a vague splluttering of 'whawhawha?' So get right to it.

redcake

11-13-2005, 03:12 PM

Steve's on to something. While I thinka Holocaust is unlikely, there is a self defeatest Jewish community at work taking care of the problem. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of appeasement actions when things reach the boiling point with Muslims in the US. In the meantime, Jews are discouraged to celebrate their holidays, children in schools aren't educated as to what a Jew even is, and the Jewish community centers in major cities are being reconstructed to serve other goyim community needs.

Here in New York city, many of the oldest Temples don't open up their sanctuarys, using basement chapels instead. Synagogues are closing all over the country. The divide is between very religious Jews, and Jews who practice these hybrid forms of religion that hardly resemble Judaism. There is no Jewish pride movement, and there hasn't been one in 30 years. Jews are behind every cause but our own. The Jewish Lobby and the ADL are percieved as loose cannons. The topic of Israel is a great one if you want to pick a fight with someone, and find out that your best friends harbor anti-semitic feelings. We are a minority yet people speak of us as powerfull, and controlling. Outward Jews do not get special priviledges (as in College Admissions, etc.) becuase you are expected to assimilate. Jews in America are linked with quirky, and eccentric stereotypical behavior.

It goes on...and the amazing thing is that while all of these might be concerns at one point or another, we rarely consider these as threats.

Mediocrates

11-13-2005, 04:10 PM

Instead of blaming the congregants why don't you look at the organization, structure, operations of the congregations themselves. I'd like to see a shul board for example that didn't elect successive generations of the same machers over and over. Or a youth group that didn't focus on animal rights or sending the same fine upstanding pothead children of doctors off to Israel every summer. Or maybe someone should talk to Federation and ask them why half their funding goes to Israel and the other half goes to resettle Russians in America, Russians who openly not Jewish? Why is that and down the street the Baptists are titheing and they don't have the physical plant for the multitude of congregants who happily give money and time.

The problem with Judaism in America is not that people don't care. It's that people are begging for organizations to work for their purposes. And please don't get me started with the Orthodox. I am Orthodox and we're no better.

redcake

11-13-2005, 11:44 PM

I'm not sure it's the type of a failure where you can blame anyone. It's just a matter of priorities and interests being askew. We defend Israel as a matter of self preservation, yet we do absolutely nothing to further that cause, preserving ourselves as Jews here in the United States.... partly because we stand defiant that in America, where we have found so much success, there is no need. Unforntunately, it may be a bit like the fight for landmark buildings where we don't realize the ramificaition or even reality of what we've lost till it's gone.

Mediocrates

11-14-2005, 04:56 AM

That's just a bunch of fine abstractions. People don't join causes, they join organizations. And unless everyone been completely distracted they'll find that in the US overt support for Israel, the kind of support people here want, is about 50%. They send money and whatnot off to Israel as requested but no one really know or cares where it goes or what it goes for.

Toga

11-14-2005, 10:10 AM

I don't think I agree with you. It is not because of the State of Israel that I can walk with my head up. I don't do well with scare tactics. According to Steve K and you, I am oppressed and a 'guest' in my own country. I don't see it that way. Perhaps that is the impression that the Israeli government wants to give, but it is not true.

Unfortunately, there is a record! Hopefully, the Jews in America will not have a record that the French, English, Spanish, Russian, etc. Jews had.

Mediocrates

11-14-2005, 10:57 AM

It's not likely but we'll let yall know.

redcake

11-14-2005, 05:12 PM

People don't join causes, they join organizations.

What organizations do you belong to?
I think if you compare the amount of Jewish phillanthropy in the US to any Jewish membership organizations, it's clear that most Jews do 'join causes".
The days of every Jewish kid, secular or otherwise joining AZA or BBG is long over.

Mediocrates

11-15-2005, 04:54 AM

What organizations do you belong to?
I think if you compare the amount of Jewish phillanthropy in the US to any Jewish membership organizations, it's clear that most Jews do 'join causes".
The days of every Jewish kid, secular or otherwise joining AZA or BBG is long over.

Where are you going with this? First off charitable contributions are down across the board, particularly in the US for agencies that help the poor and the old. Moreover those agencies that receive government grants and/or funding have seen upwards of 75% of their funding disappear in the last few years, well, since 9-11 booyah! libertyfreedomliberty, and the private sector hasn't picked that up. So what you see today in the US is a spike in Jewish poverty, among the aged.

Next philanthropy is not the issue. Where it goes is the issue. So much of goes to Israel that there's little left for us here.

redcake

11-15-2005, 02:12 PM

I'm saying I don't believe the Jewish organizations really carry the banner these days. You don't see tzadaka boxes like in the past. A great deal of Jews don't give a cent to Israel or Jewish charities, even though they do give a great deal to other phillanthropy organizations. That happened long before 9/11. So I'm saying, it's unlikely that the problem of unaccountable misdirected funds through Jewish organizations has that much of an impact on American Jewish communities.

In regards to poverty, I would guess this may be in line with elderly poverty overall. The real crisis is the amount of Jews (or the ones who label themselves for census reports) that are elderly. I know about 95% of my Temple are elderly aged.

History

11-19-2005, 05:53 AM

What is a Jew?

A Jew is one who strives to be a better Jew today than yesterday, and a better Jew tomorrow than today.

Respectfully,
History

SteveK

11-19-2005, 11:22 AM

A Jew is one who strives to be a better Jew today than yesterday, and a better Jew tomorrow than today.

Respectfully,
History

And, how does that apply to these Reform and Conservative Jews with their perversions of Torah?

Realistically,

SteveK

History

11-19-2005, 02:00 PM

Sivan

11-19-2005, 02:50 PM

History, if more religious Jews were more like you and less like SteveK then less Israelis would be turning against the religion of our people and perhaps more would be joining you.

Toga

11-19-2005, 03:24 PM

History, if more religious Jews were more like you and less like SteveK then less Israelis would be turning against the religion of our people and perhaps more would be joining you.

LOL..why don't you tell that to the Islamic Jihad and Hamas serial murderers? Please inform them that there are good Jews they should respect rather than blow up in the restaurants of movie theatres. Will they listen?

Do you think the nazis spared any "good Jews"?

SteveK

11-20-2005, 01:13 PM

There is no perversion of Torah, Steve.
It is G-d's Word and eternal.

No Jew is "better" than another.
Nor is being a Jew an all or nothing proposition--as Paul taught to the Christians.
If keeping all 613 mitzvot perfectly is the requirement for being a Jew, then there are no "Jews" and likely have never been an "observant Jew."
Recall even our greatest leaders, Moses and David and Solomon "missed the mark" at times.
If G-d still accepted them with their contrite hearts to come back to His Path, shall not every Jew accept every other Jew who strives to love and follow and understand G-d as best as he/she can?

Being more observant is valueless if one is arrogant and lacks compassion.
In fact, this would be a contradiction to being an "observant Jew."

I agree with the answer Franz Rosenzweig, the Jewish philosopher gave when asked if he wore tephillin. He thought for a moment and replied, "Not yet."
He understood himself to be in the continual process of becoming a more observant Jew. He did not say "No," but "Not yet" indicating that while he did not do so at present, he did not exclude the possibility that he would one day don tephillin.
We are all in the processing of becoming who we will be tomorrow, and I hope we do become continually more observant Jews and, more importantly, more loving and ethical-behaving Jews.
G-d is patient and forever loving and welcoming and forgiving.
Should not we be as well?

Respectfully,
History

History,---

Quoting a Prophet out of context to the observance of Torah commands?
The Prophets came to admonish the Jews for not observing the Torah commandments,---- not to do the Christian or Reform/Conservative Jewish perverted tricks of interpretation.

Afraid to quote Torah itself?

Numbers (15:16):

"There will be one Torah and one law for you and for the convert who lives with you."

And, the greatest of all the Prophets, Moses:

Deuteronomy (4:5-10):

Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that you should act accordingly in the land whither you go to possess it... for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations,who shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. For what nation is there so great, that has God so near to them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon Him for? And what nation is there so great, that has statutes and judgements so righteous as all this Tora, which I set before you this day?

Who are you talking for,--- Jesus and his Torah perversions,--- or Reform Jews (include Conservative too) and theirs?

History

11-20-2005, 04:50 PM

Dear Steve,
Thank you for your post.
There are some in all faiths who believe that they and only they know what G-d really means.
And, sadly, this happens among Jews as well.
Are you one of these?

G-d's Word to Israel (and the world) was transmitted down to us in the Written and Oral Torah [see {irke Avot 1:1].
And our many wise and brilliant Sages and Rabbis discussed their essence and importance and eternal meaning for each and every generation of the Jewish people.
But they never achieved unanimous agreement.
As the adage foes, "Two rabbis, three opinions."

Probably the most famous example of this is recorded in Talmud regarding the differences (over 300 of them!) between the School of Shammai and the School of Rabbi Hillel.
One of these concerned whether one should tell a bride on her wedding day that she is beautiful even if this is not true. The school of Shammai held that it is wrong to lie. The school of Hillel held that a bride is always beautiful on her wedding day. (Talmud, Ketubot 16b-17a) The school of Hillel won the dispute. Indeed, Jewish law today generally agrees with the school of Hillel. The Talmud (Eruvin 13b) explains why:A heavenly voice declared: "The words of both schools are the words of the living God, but the law follows the rulings of the school of Hillel." So why does the law follow the rulings of the school of Hillel? The Talmud explains that the disciples of Hillel were gentle and modest, and studied both their own opinions and the opinions of the other school, and humbly mentioned the words of the other school before their own.
--http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_32_-_Hillel_and_Shammai.asp
It is said that the law will continue to be according to the School of Rabbi Hillel until the Olam haba, when it will be according to the School of Shammai--for then we will be inscribed with G-d's Law so that we can never forget it and never fail to live by it [Jeremiah 31:33-34].

The Sages tell us how to interpret Torah, and they find this in Mishlei 3:17-18:
Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her, and happy is every one that holdest her fast.
And there is only one way to treat others:
"You shall love your fellow as yourself"--Vayikrah 19:18
"Love ye therefore the stranger; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt."--Devarim 10:19
If you do not love, do not have compassion, do not see the image of G-d in every human being (Jew or non-Jew), then you are not following the Law, in either letter or spirit.
When I was young, I admired clever people;
now that I am old, I admire kind ones."
--Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel

Perhaps I am just getting older.:)
Or, maybe, wiser.
May Hashem bless you and keep you.

Respectfully,
History

Truthful Mind

11-20-2005, 11:56 PM

Toga

11-21-2005, 12:09 AM

Hebrew.[Race]........someone who is racially descended from the Hebrew race

Where did you learn this nonsense? Who breeds the ignorant people like you?

Truthful Mind

11-21-2005, 01:28 AM

Where did you learn this nonsense? Who breeds the ignorant people like you?

You're an IDIOT Toga.

Grab a dictionary. It's the truth.

Go read a book, then try again.

Truthful Mind

11-21-2005, 01:59 AM

For those of you who lack book skills...
Let's try it this way,

In the bible, the people who are descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are referred to as the HEBREW PEOPLE.

Not the Japanese people,
Not the French people,
The Hebrew people.

Arabs, on the other hand, state that they are descended from Abraham, but through ISHMAEL. They are referred to as the Arabic people or the Sons of Ishmael.

See???

Remember my friend... books aren't just for looking at
You can read them too.

Gilgamesh

11-21-2005, 02:16 AM

Jew......[Religion]....someone who practices Judaism
Israeli...[Resident]...someone who lives in, and is a citizen of, Israel
Hebrew.[Race]........someone who is racially descended from the Hebrew race

In common Hebrew Language and thought, Hebrew==Jew. Same goes in many European languages. We have no meanigfull distinctions between the three.

In the bible itself (which I read often enough, in the ORIGINAL language) the phrases hebrew, Jew and "people of Israel" (also children of Israel) are equall and interchangeable.

example: Although technicly, one and a half million non-Jews, have full Israeli citizenship, they are not considered "Israelis" in common talk. Diaspora Jews, who don't have Israeli citizenship, are considered "Israeli" or "one of us" in common talk.

Truthful Mind

11-21-2005, 03:35 AM

In common Hebrew Language and thought, Hebrew==Jew. Same goes in many European languages. We have no meanigfull distinctions between the three.

In the bible itself (which I read often enough, in the ORIGINAL language) the phrases hebrew, Jew and "people of Israel" (also children of Israel) are equall and interchangeable.

example: Although technicly, one and a half million non-Jews, have full Israeli citizenship, they are not considered "Israelis" in common talk. Diaspora Jews, who don't have Israeli citizenship, are considered "Israeli" or "one of us" in common talk.
Exactly! Thank you!
That's all I was trying to get across.
Just because you live in Israel, does not mean that you are descended from the "children of Israel"

Because I do not live in Israel, I am not aware of, how you say "common talk"

But in "world speak", this is how it is differentiated...

If you are born in France, you are French. But that doesn't make you racially French.

Here's an example....
There is a huge Arab populace in France.

So an Arab man living in France would be....

Arab......[Race].......someone who is descended from the Arabic race
Muslim..[Religion]...someone who practices Islam
French..[Resident]..A citizen of France

So if that Arab man comes up and tells you he's French, technically he's telling the truth. If the arab man is a citizen of Japan and tells you he's Japanese technically he's telling the truth. and if the Arab man is a citizen of Israel and tells you he's Israeli, you may not like it, but technically he's telling the truth.

Most get around the confusion by hyphenating. example calling themselves Arab-Israeli, Japanese-American, etc.

Everyone can be referred to by their race, religion, or residency.

This may not be acceptable to you locally,
it may not be how you speak "common talk",
but on the rest of the world stage that's how it's viewed.

History

11-21-2005, 05:49 AM

There is no such thing as "race."
This was a false theory of the 19th century, used primarily to artificially create supposed genetic barriers between people of different physiognomies (physical characteristics), particularly in regard to intelligence, social achievement and placement, and even morality.
Which, scientifically, is just bosh.
Though it was and remains fodder for the bigots.

The Hebrews were (and are) a nation. They were (and are) composed of many physiognomies, of all skin colors, hair color, facial features, etc. Many peoples joined the Hebrew nation, particularly its belief in the One G-d, the most famous Biblical example being Ruth the Moabite, whose great grandchild was King David, and through whom is the eternal kingship of the Hebrew/Israeli/Jewish nation and from whom will come the Messiah.

If there is one lesson best repeated from Torah, is that there is only one "race", the human one. All descended from the first man and first woman, created by Hashem Himself.

Respectfully,
History

peden202

11-22-2005, 06:33 AM

Greeno is a JEW!!!

SteveK

11-22-2005, 10:40 AM

Dear Steve,
Thank you for your post.
There are some in all faiths who believe that they and only they know what G-d really means.
And, sadly, this happens among Jews as well.
Are you one of these?

[...]

History:

God's mission for the united sovereign Jewish Nation, in His Land of Israel, has been revealed quite clearly in His Torah, several days before He revealed Himself and His Torah to the Children of Israel at Mount Sinai (also refered to as Horev):

EXODUS (19:3-6):

"And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him out of the mountain [Sinai], saying, Thus shalt thou say to the House of Jacob, and tell the Children of Israel; You have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I bore you on eagles' wings, and brought you to Myself. Now, therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be my own treasure from among the peoples [The Chosen People] ; for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which you will speak to the Children of Israel."

You are playing the astronaut, as do other air-headed Jews like you, while God is telling the Jews to keep their minds and feet attached to His Holy ground.

Deuteronomy (11:13-21)

... So put these words of Mine on your heart and on your soul, and bind them for a sign on your hand, and let them be for frontlets between your eyes. And teach them to your children to speak of them when you sit in your house and when you go on your way, when you lie down and when you rise up. And write them on your doorposts of your house and on your gates, in order that your days and the days of your children should be many on the land which God swore to your fathers to give them like the days of the heavens on the earth.

Do you see that God is quite clear in His revealed Torah that He intends for the Jewish People to serve Him while living in His Land of Israel?

And, God intended for Torah to be the governance for the united sovereign Jewish Nation in His Land of Israel,--- but not for an "other faith", which perverts Torah as does Christianity, Islam, Reform Judaism, and the School of Respectfully History .

History

11-22-2005, 12:32 PM

Do not read Torah selectively, Steven.
That is very un-Jewish.
Recall we are G-d's servant, not just to our fellow ISraelities, but to the world.
Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delighteth; I have put My spirit upon him, he shall make the right to go forth to the nations. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

A bruised reed shall he not break, and the dimly burning wick shall he not quench; he shall make the right to go forth according to the truth.

He shall not fail nor be crushed, till he have set the right in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his teaching.

Thus saith God the Lord, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth, He that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it, He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and have taken hold of thy hand, and kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations;

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.

I am the Lord, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise to graven images.

Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare; before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise from the end of the earth; ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit; let the inhabitants of Sela exult, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the islands.
--Isaiah 42:1-12
Through living by His Teachings of Justice, Compassion, Charity, et. al. we draw closer to Him, and by example draw the nations, like moths, to His Light:
Yea, many peoples and mighty nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to entreat the favour of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
--Zechariah 8:22-23
This is not done by affront, contempt, ridicule, and arrogance, SteveK. These manners (or lack thereof) are, in fact, completely contrary to Jewish Teaching.
Though, sadly, as you demonstrate, not absent from some Jews.
And while I preferred to gently offer such rebuke per private message, you have rebuffed it and seem to wish to display your shame for all to see.
Ah, but we human beings are strange beasts at times.
A scorner loveth not to be reproved; he will not go unto the wise.
The ear that hearkeneth to the reproof of life abideth among the wise. ...

...He that refuseth correction despiseth his own soul; but he that hearkeneth to reproof getteth understanding.

...The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour goeth humility.
--Mishlei 15:13, 31-32
What makes Israel special to G-d, Steve, is not just the geography.
It is the people.
This is why we as a nation have survived ~2000 years in exile, and through trials few other peoples have ever faced and lived.
For wherever we go, there you find Hashem, Blessed be His Name, and His Teachings.

Respectfully,
History

SteveK

11-22-2005, 12:48 PM

Do not read Torah selectively, Steven.
That is very un-Jewish.
Recall we are G-d's servant, not just to our fellow ISraelities, but to the world.

Through living by His Teachings of Justice, Compassion, Charity, et. al. we draw closer to Him, and by example draw the nations, like moths, to His Light:

This is not done by affront, contempt, ridicule, and arrogance, SteveK. These manners (or lack thereof) are, in fact, completely contrary to Jewish Teaching.
Though, sadly, as you demonstrate, not absent from some Jews.
And while I preferred to gently offer such rebuke per private message, you have rebuffed it and seem to wish to display your shame for all to see.
Ah, but we human beings are strange beasts at times.

What makes Israel special to G-d, Steve, is not just the geography.
It is the people.
This is why we as a nation have survived ~2000 years in exile, and through trials few other peoples have ever faced and lived.
For wherever we go, there you find Hashem, Blessed be His Name, and His Teachings.

Respectfully,
History

History,

I didn't repeat your quotes from the Bible from your last post, but
are you trying to tell me about your faith as a Jew(?) in Jesus Christ????????

Please tell me the truth about your "faith".

For, lo, I am about to puke.

Toga

11-22-2005, 01:13 PM

The Christian missionaries have become rather sophisticated. However, they cannot fool the Jews for too long. Sooner or later they always reveal themselves.

Sheherazade

11-22-2005, 01:53 PM

lol! :eek:
I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. It is because of "Jews" like you that young men and women are turning away from our faith (yes 'faith'). It is because of "Jews" like you, Steve, that Jesus became so popular in the first place.

Think about it.

frizzer1

11-22-2005, 03:26 PM

The Christian missionaries have become rather sophisticated. However, they cannot fool the Jews for too long. Sooner or later they always reveal themselves.

Surely you can't be talking about "History" the poster.He is possibly the person most true to judaism on this entire forum.
How about me? Am I one of those christian missionaries going around fooling jews too?
Good grief, what next?

ygalg1

11-22-2005, 04:13 PM

History,

I didn't repeat your quotes from the Bible from your last post, but
are you trying to tell me about your faith as a Jew(?) in Jesus Christ????????

Please tell me the truth about your "faith".

For, lo, I am about to puke.
History is Jewish he is to my opinion a righteous person he believes there is a reach to the Milky Way despite the differences exist between us and our faith
Finding the similarities we may understand we are not different from each other and we can thrive to live side by side in peace

ygalg1

11-22-2005, 04:19 PM

Surely you can't be talking about "History" the poster.He is possibly the person most true to judaism on this entire forum.
How about me? Am I one of those christian missionaries going around fooling jews too?
Good grief, what next?He once took me for a Muslim :confused:

History

11-22-2005, 05:52 PM

Thank you for your posts.
Jews arguing about who is Jewish.
Nothing new there, sadly.
And degradating other faiths at the same time, which I do not agree is appropriate.
We can respectfully agree to disagree at times with those who follow the Christian, the Islamic, and other faiths--but we should never denigrate them.
We should live as Rabbi Hillel taught is the essence of Torah:
What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbors. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it.” --Talmud, Shabbat 31a
It was thus that Rabbi Hillel gained a convert, by the way.
Not by threats, fear-mongering, or oppression--but by love and wisdom and righteous living.

I disagree with Christian doctrine, Muslim doctrine, Hindu doctrine, etc.
But any person, regardless of doctrinal beliefs, who lives and loves righteously (gives charity, helps those in need, feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, cares for the widow and orphan, honors their parents, treats others with respect, seeks to make the world a better place for every human being regardless of religion, skin color, gender, nationality, age....) are all Believers in the One G-d, Blessed be His Name.
The righteous among all the nations of the earth have a share in the world-to-come.--Tosefta Sanhedrin 13:2
And I know many Christians and Muslims, etc who are Believers by this Jewish definition.
And, sadly, some who are not.
And, sadly, some fellow Jews who are not as well.

Respectfully,
History

minusthejihad

11-22-2005, 10:21 PM

You know Toga, he's just too Jew for you!

Mira

11-22-2005, 10:50 PM

I talk a good game, but History is the real deal from what I can tell. And I'm happy, even relieved, that most of the Jews on the board recognize this. There may be some hope for us yet. :)

SteveK

11-24-2005, 12:04 PM

History is Jewish he is to my opinion a righteous person he believes there is a reach to the Milky Way despite the differences exist between us and our faith
Finding the similarities we may understand we are not different from each other and we can thrive to live side by side in peace

Ygalg1:

Change the name of this thread to: "Jewish Barf-O-Rama" .

The Prophets were trying to motivate the sovereign Jewish Nation for our role for world spiritual leadership. Jews can pnly do that as a sovereign nation among the other sovereign nations,--- not as parasites living under the rule of other nations and placating "religions" like Christianity and Islam which permutated in perverted ways out of the true Jewish heritage,--- and then coming back on the Jews to tell us what the "word" of God is.

Torah is the foundation to Kabbala, Talmud, and the Prophets.

You want to reach an "understanding of our differences" so we can "live side by side in peace"?

Perhaps you all would like for the Christians and Muslims to teach you Torah instead of the Torah observant communities who brought the true Jewish heritage through 2,000 years of unspeakable persectutions by these Christians and Muslims, and gave you "real" Jews your international claim ticket to your sovereign ancestral Homeland????

Let the Pope control Israel so your international sensitivities can be guranteed,--- and you won't have to feel guilty for sucking off the goodlife from Christian societies,--- you phoney diaspora Jews,--- you blood suckers and worshippers of the golden calf in Christian land.

The Israeli atheist brazen dogs are surrendering Jewish land to appease Arab murderers and world anti-semites, and make the UNJewish homeland of Israel, and you "righteous" phoney diaspora Jews are surrendering the true heritage of 3,500+ years of the Jewish People to appease the Christians,--- afterall, it's their hand that really feeds you, and keeps your four walls standing of institutionalized Judaism,----

so you all can "teach" the world about faith in God as the God Who brought the Jews out of Egyptian bondage into their own Land of Israel,--- while making Him into nothing more than a Passover storybook myth from your home armchair "spirituality". You a$$hole astronauts.

You all would make good pets as parakeets in cages for your Christian owners.
God only knows that you have made nothing more of Him than just your own house pet.

ygalg1

11-24-2005, 01:07 PM

Ygalg1:

Change the name of this thread to: "Jewish Barf-O-Rama" .

The Prophets were trying to motivate the sovereign Jewish Nation for our role for world spiritual leadership. Jews can pnly do that as a sovereign nation among the other sovereign nations,--- not as parasites living under the rule of other nations and placating "religions" like Christianity and Islam which permutated in perverted ways out of the true Jewish heritage,--- and then coming back on the Jews to tell us what the "word" of God is.

Torah is the foundation to Kabbala, Talmud, and the Prophets.

You want to reach an "understanding of our differences" so we can "live side by side in peace"?

Perhaps you all would like for the Christians and Muslims to teach you Torah instead of the Torah observant communities who brought the true Jewish heritage through 2,000 years of unspeakable persectutions by these Christians and Muslims, and gave you "real" Jews your international claim ticket to your sovereign ancestral Homeland????

Let the Pope control Israel so your international sensitivities can be guranteed,--- and you won't have to feel guilty for sucking off the goodlife from Christian societies,--- you phoney diaspora Jews,--- you blood suckers and worshippers of the golden calf in Christian land.

The Israeli atheist brazen dogs are surrendering Jewish land to appease Arab murderers and world anti-semites, and make the UNJewish homeland of Israel, and you "righteous" phoney diaspora Jews are surrendering the true heritage of 3,500+ years of the Jewish People to appease the Christians,--- afterall, it's their hand that really feeds you, and keeps your four walls standing of institutionalized Judaism,----

so you all can "teach" the world about faith in God as the God Who brought the Jews out of Egyptian bondage into their own Land of Israel,--- while making Him into nothing more than a Passover storybook myth from your home armchair "spirituality". You a$$hole astronauts.

You all would make good pets as parakeets in cages for your Christian owners.
God only knows that you have made nothing more of Him than just your own house pet.

It is ain’t my tread SteveK sorry

Avraham, Yaacov and Yitzhak were associating with foreigners despite the differences with these they lived in peace why couldn’t we follow their steps?

I agree that these who choose to raise a sword no other option but for us to do the same
hmm I suspect you are from shimon tribe hot-tempered

SteveK

11-24-2005, 01:16 PM

It is ain’t my tread SteveK sorry

Avraham, Yaacov and Yitzhak were associating with foreigners despite the differences with these they lived in peace why couldn’t we follow their steps?

I agree that these who choose to raise a sword no other option but for us to do the same
hmm I suspect you are from shimon tribe hot-tempered

Don't run away from your destiny like your friend History,--- or like Mira:

EXODUS (19:3-6):

"And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him out of the mountain [Sinai], saying, Thus shalt thou say to the House of Jacob, and tell the Children of Israel; You have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I bore you on eagles' wings, and brought you to Myself. Now, therefore, if you will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then you shall be my own treasure from among the peoples [The Chosen People] ; for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which you will speak to the Children of Israel."

ygalg1

11-24-2005, 03:45 PM

Don't run away from your destiny like your friend History,--- or like Mira:
I’m stitch to it

SteveK

11-25-2005, 12:49 AM

I’m stitch to it

If you are "stitched" to your Jewish heritage and destiny here in Israel, then don't let History pull out the threads. That's all he can do as a diaspora Jew is weaken the fabric here in Israel.

I won't say more about the Israeli atheist brazen dogs.

ygalg1

11-25-2005, 01:18 AM

If you are "stitched" to your Jewish heritage and destiny here in Israel, then don't let History pull out the threads. That's all he can do as a diaspora Jew is weaken the fabric here in Israel.

I won't say more about the Israeli atheist brazen dogs.
History is no atheist brazen dog and he understand perfectly the reality here he is not an idiot

SteveK

11-25-2005, 01:28 AM

History is no atheist brazen dog and he understand perfectly the reality here he is not an idiot

You seem to be speaking too much for History. Are you History?

If not, then why isn't your "rebbe" History living as a Jew in Israel. He refered to Israel as a "prison" in one of his posts. He didn't feel that Jews should be imprisoned only in Israel.

That's not a lack of understanding of the true Jewish heritage and destiny, but a rejection of it.

ygalg1

11-25-2005, 03:18 AM

You seem to be speaking too much for History. Are you History?

If not, then why isn't your "rebbe" History living as a Jew in Israel. He refered to Israel as a "prison" in one of his posts. He didn't feel that Jews should be imprisoned only in Israel.

That's not a lack of understanding of the true Jewish heritage and destiny, but a rejection of it.
King David had to be out side the country when Saul was after him

Sometimes it is a necessary to keep away and when the right moment comes he will settle here

Meantime we Waite or maybe you should promote a demand from Jews Diaspora to abandon their foreign countries and come at ones...

Explain them why it is a must...

Advertise it abroad; establish some agency that will be operating for this kind assignment it might surprise you how many will come if done right and without BS been giving to us that let many who came here eventually to run off

I hope if you do such you will have a great financial help from brothers to accomplish this goal

goliath

11-25-2005, 03:34 AM

[QUOTE=physics]From a non-religious perspective, a Jew was always the scapegoat in foreign lands. A Jew was always reminded what/who he was during bad times.

Yes and no (This is the favourite answer ,you can get from a Jew ) ...

If your family was born in a quietness peacefull country , so you have probably got all the rite concerning Jewish religion (more or less) , and also the education , does that turn you into a good and real Jew ? who nows....

A Jew was also a person that died in Holocaust. I'll be damned if anyone doesn't recognize Holocaust victims as Jews just because they were not religious.

The new , about I was a Jew ,came to me in 1942 ,whenthey gave me a shinning yellow star , (I was six year old) , all the Jewish school were closed , so I only met a real Rabbi , for a very short time , my father desired me to enter in a shule , I was five and a half year old , a while after that , this shule was closed ......

Religion isn't the only factor that defines a Jew.

Fair enough , that point ,could be for a novel writer , a subject for a new litterature Nobel Prize......( Dynamite Nobel prize )

In my personnal experience , people who are expert in saying and able to define Jews , were , and are Nazis and their friends , the same since almost six thousand years......Still in very good shape all over the world...and could be in all the galaxies......

SteveK

11-25-2005, 03:44 AM

King David had to be out side the country when Saul was after him

Sometimes it is a necessary to keep away and when the right moment comes he will settle here

Meantime we Waite or maybe you should promote a demand from Jews Diaspora to abandon their foreign countries and come at ones...

Explain them why it is a must...

Advertise it abroad; establish some agency that will be operating for this kind assignment it might surprise you how many will come if done right and without BS been giving to us that let many who came here eventually to run off

I hope if you do such you will have a great financial help from brothers to accomplish this goal

My task will be only to light a fire under the a$$es of the Torah leaders here in Israel. No charge.

These Torah leaders must unite and break out of their own four walls of mentality of diaspora religious movements. That's all Judaism is today but institutionalized. Torah is about governance of a sovereign Jewish nation under God and Torah,--- not about some synagogue membership in Brooklyn or Jerusalem with a four walled inherited Babylonian mentality.

And, these Torah leaders must separate Israel from the diaspora Jews' promotion that one can be even a better Jew in Brooklyn than in Jerusalem.

The Israeli Nation will rise up to live out the true meaning of our faith.

Your "rebbe" History can stay in America and have inter-faith teas with the Christians.

ygalg1

11-25-2005, 04:08 AM

My task will be only to light a fire under the a$$es of the Torah leaders here in Israel. No charge.

These Torah leaders must unite and break out of their own four walls of mentality of diaspora religious movements. That's all Judaism is today but institutionalized. Torah is about governance of a sovereign Jewish nation under God and Torah,--- not about some synagogue membership in Brooklyn or Jerusalem with a four walled inherited Babylonian mentality.

And, these Torah leaders must separate Israel from the diaspora Jews' promotion that one can be even a better Jew in Brooklyn than in Jerusalem.

The Israeli Nation will rise up to live out the true meaning of our faith.

Your "rebbe" History can stay in America and have inter-faith teas with the Christians.
To unite means the Sephardim and Ashkenazim, which this issue will be hard to accomplish, they have conflicted agendas

SteveK

11-25-2005, 04:23 AM

To unite means the Sephardim and Ashkenazim, which this issue will be hard to accomplish, they have conflicted agendas

Why? Because one Jew worships God through Lord Menanchem Shneerson soon to arise from the dead as King Moshiach, and the other Jew worships God through Lord Ovadia Yosef?

It's the fault of the Torah leaders for this artifical separation and false worship of themselves by their followers. And, all their heads can be fused back together.

These Torah leaders must start worshipping again the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob,--- and not themselves.

One should make a Rebbe for himself, but the trend is to make a substitute Jesus Christ for himself out of this rebbe. This must stop.

At least the Christians have one Jesus to worship. The Jews mass produce them.

ygalg1

11-25-2005, 05:14 AM

You touched the right spot

Ones I made similar comment to a Shas adherent almost paid in my skin

It will takes to infiltrate and make change from inside cause seems those power freaks won’t give up on their position they need to be derive out
someone to make awake up call but who?

History

11-27-2005, 06:23 AM

The Jew

Moses, from whose loins I sprung,
Lit by a lamp in his blood
Ten immutable rules, a moon
For mutable lampless men.

The blonde, the bronze, the ruddy,
With the same heaving blood,
Keep tide to the moon of Moses.
Then why do they sneer at me?

Isaac Rosenberg (1890-1918)

Biography of Isaac Rosenberg

http://www.poemhunter.com/i/p/17/6917_b_4578.jpg Born in Bristol, England on 25th November 1890 to Russian-Jewish parents, Isaac Rosenberg grew up in the East End of London and became an apprentice engraver until he went to the Slade School to study. An artist and one of the Georgian poets, he was in South Africa when the First World War broke out recuperating from illness, but despite poor health, in 1915 he enlisted as a private in the Army and served in the ranks on the Western Front from 1916 until he was killed in action on April 1st 1918. He was 27 years old.

Isaac Rosenberg, Charles Sorley and Wilfred Owen, were considered to be the three greatest Great War poets, and Rosenberg's poem, "Break of Day in The Trenches" is generally considered to be the greatest poem of the war.
http://www.poemhunter.com/isaac-rosenberg/biography/poet-6917/

History

11-27-2005, 06:29 AM

Behaving Like A Jew

When I got there the dead opossum looked like
an enormous baby sleeping on the road.
It took me only a few seconds – just
seeing him there – with the hole in his back
and the wind blowing through his hair
to get back again into my animal sorrow.
I am sick of the country, the bloodstained
bumpers, the stiff hairs sticking out of the grilles,
the slimy highways, the heavy birds
refusing to move;
I am sick of the spirit of Lindbergh over everything,
that joy in death, that philosophical
understanding of carnage, that
concentration on the species.
--- I am going to be unappeased at the opossum’s death.
I am going to behave like a Jew
and touch his face, and stare into his eyes,
and pull him off the road.
I am not going to stand in a wet ditch

with the Toyotas and the Chevies passing over me
at sixty miles an hour
and praise the beauty and the balance
and lose myself in the immortal lifestream
when my hands are still a little shaky
from his stiffness and his bulk
and my eyes are still weak and misty
from his round belly and his curved fingers
and his black whiskers and his little dancing feet.

"Behaving Like A Jew" by Gerald Stern from Leaving Another Kingdom: Selected Poems published by Harper originally published in the book Lucky Life published by Houghton Mifflin.

History

11-27-2005, 06:38 AM

What Being a Jew Means to Me Leonard Nimoy
Actor http://www.beingjewish.org/magazine/winter2003/leonardnimoy.gif I have very warm memories of growing up in Boston in a secure and loving home, of being surrounded by relatives, all of whom had fled from Eastern Europe, of attending a local Orthodox synagogue, and of studying at an after-school cheder (Jewish school).

Judaism was very much alive in our home. So, too, Yiddish. All of this gave me a very strong sense of pride, of spirituality, of connection to an extended Jewish family.

I learned early on about street-level anti-Semitism, but I also learned that America is a diverse country in which anti-Semitism is not condoned by the larger society. I felt a sense of security as a Jew; I felt I could aspire to do or be anything I wanted. And I wanted to be an actor.

By the time I was ten, the US had just entered the Second World War and I began to perform for Jewish audiences to promote war bonds. That was the first, but far from the last, melding of my Jewish identity and artistic life.

For example, playing the role of Morris Myerson, the husband of Golda Meir, in A Woman Called Golda was a special moment in my life as an actor and a Jew. It also gave me a chance to spend a month in Israel, one of three visits I’ve made which have reinforced my connection to the Jewish state.

Arthur Miller, the playwright, once posed a challenge which I paraphrase: How can we make the outside world a home? How do we find a sense of belonging in that larger world? For me, being part of the larger Jewish family and a member of a congregation in Los Angeles have provided a means.

Being Jewish is a gift, not a burden. I treasure that identity. It has been a source of the most important values of all: family, charity, wisdom, compassion, social justice, culture; those values that form the foundation of a civilized society. How can this heritage, this legacy of the Jewish experience, be anything but a treasure for its heirs today?

When I was a boy, there was a particular blessing used in our local shul (synagogue). The four fingers of each hand were split to create the Hebrew letter shin representing Shad-dai, the name of the Almighty. When we were creating the television program Star Trek, we needed a salute. I thought back to that hand symbol and proposed it. The rest, as they say, is history.

Why did I think back to that hand gesture? Actors are always looking for something personal to bring to their professional lives. Maybe, then, it was the convergence of my spiritual and artistic lives. Maybe, in a way, I can call that salute my Vulcan shalom, my greeting of peace, my yearning for the blessing of peace: the age-old quest of the Jewish people, my people.

http://www.beingjewish.org/magazine/winter2003/article3.html

History

11-27-2005, 06:39 AM

Elie Wiesel
Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, 1986

http://www.beingjewish.org/magazine/winter2003/eliewiesel.gif I remember: as a child, on the other side of oceans and mountains, the Jew in me would anticipate Rosh Ha-Shanah with fear and trembling. He still does.

On that Day of Awe, I believed then, nations and individuals, Jewish and non-Jewish, are being judged by their common creator.

That is still my belief.

In spite of all that happened? Because of all that happened?

I still believe that to be Jewish today means what it meant yesterday and a thousand years ago. It means for the Jew in me to seek fulfillment both as a Jew and as a human being. For a Jew, Judaism and humanity must go together. To be Jewish today is to recognize that every person is created in the image of God and that our purpose in living is to be a reminder of God.

Naturally, I claim total kinship with my people and its destiny. Judaism integrates particularist aspirations with universal values, fervor with rigor, legend with law. Being Jewish to me is to reject all fanaticism anywhere.

To be Jewish is, above all, to safeguard memory and open its gates to the celebration of life as well as the suffering, to the song of ecstasy as well as the tears of distress that are our legacy as Jews. It is to rejoice in the renaissance of Jewish sovereignty in Israel and the re-awakening of Jewish life in the former Soviet Union. It is to identify with the plight of Jews living under oppressive regimes and with the challenges facing our communities in free societies.

A Jew must be sensitive to the pain of all human beings. A Jew cannot remain indifferent to human suffering, whether in former Yugoslavia, in Somalia, or in our own cities and towns. The mission of the Jewish people has never been to make the world more Jewish, but to make it more human.

(same source)

History

11-27-2005, 06:43 AM

Alfred H. Moses
United States Ambassador to Romania

http://www.beingjewish.org/magazine/winter2003/alfredmoses.gif I had the good fortune of being raised in a traditional Jewish home where the Sabbath was a day of rest, the holidays were days of joy, and the dietary laws were strictly observed. This set me apart from my friends and neighbors.

Still, in my early years religious observance interfered with my favorite pastimes, playing football and baseball. The highlight of my week was seeing how many innings of baseball I could play before my father dragged me off to synagogue. But by my late teens, I took great pride in being a Jew who knew Hebrew, could recite the traditional prayers from memory, and was a wiz at Jewish Trivial Pursuit.

The rise of Hitler, the devastation of European Jewry, and the creation of the State of Israel etched in my heart a sense of Jewish peoplehood that would later take me around the world in support of endangered Jewish communities.

During my lifetime, I have seen enormous changes in the Jewish world. While external threats to the Jewish people have diminished, Jewish continuity in the United States is being questioned as never before. Young Jews ask me "Why be Jewish? In America today you can affirm your identity as a Jew or ignore it." The level of acceptance in our country makes both options acceptable. Being Jewish then is increasingly a matter of choice.

To their question I answer: Judaism has a 3000-year-old tradition of infusing the spiritual into our everyday lives, not for personal redemption, but to uplift the lot of mankind through adherence to ethical and moral principles, and to preserve through this common endeavor a sense of connectedness with a people. This, the essence of our Covenant, gives us tools to deal with the disparate and often confusing aspects of modern life.

For me this has meant combining my career as a lawyer in private practice with communal and public service: as an officer in the Navy, later as Special Assistant in the Carter White House, then as President of the American Jewish Committee, and now as United States Ambassador to Romania, a country I first came to know through helping Jews and others escape from behind the Iron Curtain.

In all these endeavors I have been inspired by the teachings of the Torah and the Talmud that each of us has an obligation to work to make peoples’ lives better.
(same source)