Interesting info on Nobel Prizes

[drdon]

The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population.

They received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz.

Peace:
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat
2003-Shirin Ebadi

Chemistry:
1990 - Elias James Corey *
1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Medicine:
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar *
1998 - Ferid Mourad *

Physics
1979 - Abdus Salam

************************************************** *******************************

The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population.

They received the following Nobel Prizes:

Literature:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
2002 - Imre Kertesz
2005 - Harold Pinter

Peace:
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
1995 - Joseph Rotblat

Chemistry:
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charle s Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
2004 - Irwin Rose
2004 - Avram Hershko
2004 - Aaron Ciechanover

Economics:
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 -! Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel
1994 - John Harsanyi
1994 - Reinhard Selten
1997 - Robert Merton
1997 - Myron Scholes
2001 - George Akerlof
2001 - Joseph Stiglitz
2002 - Daniel Kahneman
2005 - Robert J. Aumann

Medicine:
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abra ham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner
1998 - Robert F. Furchgott
2000 - Eric R. Kandel
2002 - Sydney Brenner
2002 - Robert H. Horvitz

Physics:
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1995 - Martin Perl
1995 - Frederick Reines
1996 - David M. Lee
1996 - Douglas D. Osheroff
1997 - Claude Cohen-Tannoudji
2000 - Zhores I. Alferov
2003 - Vitaly Ginsburg
2003 - Alexei Abrikosov
************************************************** *******************************

The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims.

The Jews don't hijack planes, nor kill athletes at the Olympics, the Jews don't traffic slaves, nor have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels.

The Jews don't have the economical strength of the petroleum, nor the possibilities to force the world's media to see "their side" of the question.

Perhaps if the world's Muslims could invest more in normal education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems, we could all live in a better world.

[ygalg1]

Count out Yaser Arafat. Since that day a Nobel Prize hand to him, it overshadow on whole Nobel Prize institution.
But eight Muslims (are they recognized to be?) received Nobel Prize awards, indicating that there is aspiration to break out.

[KSO]

Count out Yaser Arafat. Since that day a Nobel Prize hand to him, it overshadow on whole Nobel Prize institution.
But eight Muslims (are they recognized to be?) received Nobel Prize awards, indicating that there is aspiration to break out.

Well if Henry Kissinger is a man of peace then Arafat is a quaker.

[ygalg1]

Well if Henry Kissinger is a man of peace then Arafat is a quaker.The peace award, as it seems blurring, should be replace for invention.

[Justcurious]

What has religion or ethnicity to do with Nobel prices? You have your answers, no doubt, but do you have any intelligent answers?

[physics]

25% of Nobel Prize winners are Jews. Just an interesting fact!

[Roland]

I am missing the proportional representation of say central-african third-world ethnicities.
I am pretty sure that the majority of those noble prize winners - jewish or not - had a social background that could be called no less than elitist.
While the majority of the islamic population is underprivileged third world, that fact is represented in your nice statistical excerpt.
Perhaps if the world's Muslims could invest more in normal education and less in blaming the Jews for all their problems, we could all live in a better world.The muslim countries are not democratic enough - education isn't welcome in tyrannies.

[physics]

islamic population is underprivileged third world, that fact is represented in your nice statistical excerpt.

Yes, and that's their own fault and problem. Why would I or the rest of the western world care? They run their own countries in such poor fashions.

It's their miserable lives. The only thing I am worried about is my own security. I want to make sure these fanatics don't attack Israel and U.S.A.

[The Negotiator]

Yes, and that's their own fault and problem. Why would I or the rest of the western world care? They run their own countries in such poor fashions.

It's their miserable lives. The only thing I am worried about is my own security. I want to make sure these fanatics don't attack Israel and U.S.A.

Last time I checked US and friends were happy to support dictators, tyrannical leaders such as Saddam hussein and the Shah of Iran, Today it supports Musharraf who love him or hate him is a dictator. Also who is keeping the Saudi royal family in power? You really think the Saudis want the royal family?

Such double standards!

[varian]

Last time I checked US and friends ...
Such double standards!
Do you mean friends like Balfour and BP???

[Roland]

You are really giving all the answers.
Your (and you are not alone with this) miserable, shortsighted, careless, ignorant and selfrighteous egocentrism is a reason why
- they still run their own countries in such poor fashions
- their lives still are so miserable

They need help! So many other countries had help and could not have become on their own what they are now - stable and demoratic friends. But they are left to their own devices. They won't become constructive by their own initiative and have nothing left to loose. They are not yet busy enough with improving their lives.
Why would I or the rest of the western world care?Because you are only worried about your own security.
In that sense you help to make sure these fanatics do attack Israel and U.S.A. Therefor you have a good reason to worry about your security.
that's their own fault and problem.Maybe their fault, but their problem becomes your problem, too. And that again is your fault.
The american formula of maximum self-determination and stuff does not work with the rest of the world, without you starting to be worried about a lot more things than just your own self.

[Gilgamesh]

You are really giving all the answers.
Your (and you are not alone with this) miserable, shortsighted, careless, ignorant and selfrighteous egocentrism is a reason why
- they still run their own countries in such poor fashions
- their lives still are so miserable

They need help! So many other countries had help and could not have become on their own what they are now - stable and demoratic friends. All the help Germany has ever offered the Arabs was Nerv gas technology so to mass murder Jews, and each other. Which is NO progress since Nazi policy in ME, which among other things, incited wide spread pogroms in Iraq, Syria and in the land of Israel.

The only "help" Arabs deserve is shock therapy a-la Dresden or Hiroshima. These are the ONLY proven instruments to turn blood lusting war mongoring fanatic cultures into pacefist ones. Germany would have never been such a pacefist country today, without Dresden, Hamburg or the demolition in warfare of Berlin.

But they are left to their own devices. They won't become constructive by their own initiative and have nothing left to loose. They are not yet busy enough with improving their lives. That is because Israel and the rest of the Western world never threat the Arabs with any substational loss. What you might consider a terrible demage inflicted on Arabs, is usually considered as superficial demage. There is a huge cultural gap in perception of losses and risks. Arab and muslem over all, value human lives very differently, Much more like the Nazis, and less like the Allies. The cultural gap even prohibetes the Muslems to take responsiblity for thier own actions or mistakes. As such, there is NOTHING positive one can do forthem, once they are bent of inflicting maximum mayhem on themselves and their sorroundings.

Because you are only worried about your own security. Don't you? Somebody has to take care of my security, and since there are no vollenteers, I have to take this responsiblity upon myself. Don't you think?

[Roland]

All the help Germany has ever offered the Arabs was Nerv gas technology so to mass murder Jews, and each other. Which is NO progress since Nazi policy in ME, which among other things, incited wide spread pogroms in Iraq, Syria and in the land of Israel.

The only "help" Arabs deserve is shock therapy a-la Dresden or Hiroshima.These are the ONLY proven instruments to turn blood lusting war mongoring fanatic cultures into pacefist ones.
You dismiss nerve gas but favour nuclear bombs? Aha.
Because you don't like it or because it has proven ineffective? BTW I'm not sure that blasting away Teheran and Damascus and Cairo and ... ah ... Islamabad and Riad would be enough to cause a similar effect on the islamic culture like it had on the japanese or german culture.
Germany would have never been such a pacefist country today, without Dresden, Hamburg or the demolition in warfare of Berlin. True. Sad but true.
Do you think the shock-and-awe tactics in Baghdad will make Iraq pacifist? I don't. A bigger bomb? I still don't.
Don't you? Somebody has to take care of my security, and since there are no vollenteers, I have to take this responsiblity upon myself. Don't you think?Yes. Nothing wrong about that.
But to care about our personal security alone is not enough.
That will not stop arab societies from breeding terrorists.

[Mil]

by KSO:

Well if Henry Kissinger is a man of peace then Arafat is a quaker.

Kissinger is probably the #1 politician, international politics, of the Cold War and definetly one of the most notible Secretaries of State US ever had. I believe Condie is 100% Kissinger's protege; also a very - very sharp lady.

[Mercury]

So many other countries had help and could not have become on their own what they are now - stable and demoratic friends.

Which countries do you have in mind?

[minusthejihad]

They need help! So many other countries had help and could not have become on their own what they are now - stable and demoratic friends. But they are left to their own devices. They won't become constructive by their own initiative and have nothing left to loose. They are not yet busy enough with improving their lives.

They are getting that help! Starting in Iraq, next in Iran or Syria. Saudi will have its day, after the immediate dangers are extinguished.

[physics]

Because you are only worried about your own security.
In that sense you help to make sure these fanatics do attack Israel and U.S.A. Therefor you have a good reason to worry about your security.

So I should not worry about my security? will that prevent attacks? the U.S. was so oblivious and relaxed until they were hit on 9-11. Learn from it.

Maybe their fault, but their problem becomes your problem, too. And that again is your fault. The american formula of maximum self-determination and stuff does not work with the rest of the world, without you starting to be worried about a lot more things than just your own self.

Hey, do you think I want Arabs to be fanatics? the U.S. and Israel wants to feed them with education and modern values but they simply refuse to accept. They are too adamant for change. They are so stubborn that they grow into fanatics that hate and want to kill the west.

Why are they so dull to lack interest in science and modern progress? why do they still live with outdated mentality?

[Mediocrates]

Do you think the shock-and-awe tactics in Baghdad will make Iraq pacifist? I don't. A bigger bomb? I still don't.


Clearly the trend is to smaller fewer smarter weapons. The day and age of carpet bombing is over. It's too expensive and not politically viable. The so called shock and awe was just a name given to dropping bombs on specific targets at specific locations and at specific times. It's goal was never to reduce Baghdad to rubble but to eliminate in one pass Iraq's physical ability to wage conventional war.

[Roland]

So I should not worry about my security? will that prevent attacks? You get it all wrong - If you are worried ONLY about your own personal security and don't care about the rest - that is asking for trouble. There are no isolated islands anymore (I don't count Antarctica, though) where you could just forget about the rest of the world. The rest of the world will come knocking at your door.
You can't ignore that. The only way to improve your security is to help them getting busy with constructively improving their lives - but they are not, yet. They still value their lives and standard of living and prosperity lower than any given political or religious propaganda.
Germany was totally crushed in WWII, but that was not what made the difference. West-Germany had help, but East-Germany had not.
West-Germany became #3 world economy, East-Germany remained a communist dictatorship with post-war standards.
West-Germany is a stable democracy and had to swallow the crippled East-Germany after '89, and was able to do that. That had some disadvantages, though. But had West-Germany not "helped", what would have become of East-Germany?
Italy is democratic today as well.
Yugoslavia broke apart and is on it's way to democracy.

Hey, do you think I want Arabs to be fanatics? the U.S. and Israel wants to feed them with education and modern values but they simply refuse to accept. They are too adamant for change. They are so stubborn that they grow into fanatics that hate and want to kill the west.

Why are they so dull to lack interest in science and modern progress? why do they still live with outdated mentality?
Ahmm... did I say it would be easy?
"I don't care" can only worsen the problem.

Saudi will have its day, after the immediate dangers are extinguished.I was under the impression since 9/11, that the #1 danger would be Saudi-Arabia. Maybe the key to the islamic threat.

[Gilgamesh]

What has religion or ethnicity to do with Nobel prices? You have your answers, no doubt, but do you have any intelligent answers?There is a strong link between culture or civilization, and ethinicity. Judaism is merely the name of our culture and our enthicity. We Jews have fullfiled our intelectual potenial to a degree far higher then any other nation on earty, due to our culture.

Fullfiling one intelectual potenial in one thing, having one is matter of good genes, which we Jews (in a generalization) have and you don't.

[Gilgamesh]

You get it all wrong - If you are worried ONLY about your own personal security and don't care about the rest - that is asking for trouble. I know these arguments, German. Careful of using such arguments, they lead to dark corners, or do these expose your true colors?

The Western powers are not at (primary) fault for the Nazis rise to power. The majority of Germans have voted them in, and all of Germans have fought fanaticly for 6 years to preserve that evil ragime.

As for the rest, we strongly believe in personal responsibility to one own problems. The Arabs have failed to realize how important peace is for their quality of life. It is their choise, however evil or stupid it is. Within a totalitarian fanatic ragime, war such as a Jihad, has always an important role of its own, lusting war has perfect sense. As a German, you should have acknowledge it first. I find the Arabs totaly responsible for their own mass.

There are no isolated islands anymore (I don't count Antarctica, though) where you could just forget about the rest of the world. The rest of the world will come knocking at your door. Your Hitler has proved the world, and history, that the "world" must not be tursted for providing the basic essenials to the weak and the oppressed. Being weak and defenseless becomes a crime, a risk for national existance and a leathal threat to many lives. Your Hitler has proved the rest of the world WILL NOT "knock on your door", and some crimes carry no punishment and no guilt. Few days ago, Germany has equeated yet another Nazi war crimminal.

The real world is a crual ocean, big fish eat little fish. Each one is for its own.

You can't ignore that. The only way to improve your security is to help them getting busy with constructively improving their lives - but they are not, yet. Their idea of improving their lives are not equall to your perceptions of improving one lives. The "honor" in mass murdering Jews is by far more valued by them then having a bigger house and bigger car.

Besides, Saudis and the EU provid for the families, giving them large sums of money to those who breed these mass murderer terrorists, so mass murdering Jews becomes a respectable way for the Arabs for having a bigger house and bigger car.

Germany was totally crushed in WWII, but that was not what made the difference. West-Germany had help, but East-Germany had not. Personaly, Marshel plan was a waste of money. Germany should have allowed to remain out casted boycotted and desperatly poor. The Allies logic however, was to use West Germany as future battle ground against the Soviets, and the German people as Atomic cannon fodder.

The long term affects of the Marshal plan are that the Germans now believe that can distance themselves and forgive themselves for the crimes they did and still do. That they can talk one thing, and practice exactly the opposite. As far as I concern, the day the first Leopard II MBT lowered ashore in some Arab state, its a cause for war against Germany. As it comes ontop of German's sale of Nerv gas technology and raw matrials for Iraq and Syria as well as Germany ON GOING ecconomic and military relations with Iran's current ragime.

West-Germany became #3 world economy, East-Germany remained a communist dictatorship with post-war standards. And should have remained so.

West-Germany is a stable democracy and had to swallow the crippled East-Germany after '89, and was able to do that. In the long term, it will be proved to be a huge mistake from the rest of the world to allow such unification. The border between the Germanyes should have be continuedly gaurded by the Allies and Russians.

More over, I'd favour a further division of Germany to more independed states. Broken in two is no enough.

That had some disadvantages, though. But had West-Germany not "helped", what would have become of East-Germany? East Germany would be thired world back water isolated country, so should have West Germany be.

Italy is democratic today as well. Because there is no viable comparison between the Italian Facist and the Nazis. In Facist Italy there were no persecution of Jews before 1938, before Nazi influance.

Yugoslavia broke apart and is on it's way to democracy. Because Serbia is threatend still by the powers of Central Europe. Serbia is under such threats for centuries. The moment the European act fair toward Serbia, Serbia would become a full democracy. Europeans, probably blinded by their hate of Jews, ally themselves with the Islamists, who harrass and hurt all the coutnries of the Balkan, and the first cause of suffering for the Serbs.

I was under the impression since 9/11, that the #1 danger would be Saudi-Arabia. Maybe the key to the islamic threat.You are right, but even the USA can't take a direct action against the heart of the Arab-Islamist world. The route to Mecca goes through Baghdad and Damascus. When the Allies have defeated Nazi Germany, they first liberated Italy, and later liberated France. Germany was saved for the last. The same strategie is used today. First remove the beast limbs, one by one, last deal with the head. (only remember to torch the stumps so to enclose them and prevent new regrowth)

[Roland]

I know these arguments, German. Careful of using such arguments, they lead to dark corners, or do these expose your true colors?I have no unexposed colors and I know yours. You still mistrust me, but you are still barking up the wrong tree.

The Western powers are not at (primary) fault for the Nazis rise to power. The majority of Germans have voted them in, and all of Germans have fought fanaticly for 6 years to preserve that evil ragime.

As for the rest, we strongly believe in personal responsibility to one own problems. The Arabs have failed to realize how important peace is for their quality of life. It is their choise, however evil or stupid it is. Within a totalitarian fanatic ragime, war such as a Jihad, has always an important role of its own, lusting war has perfect sense. As a German, you should have acknowledge it first. I find the Arabs totaly responsible for their own mass.Yes. But as you see (and you are sitting much closer to the ME-trouble than I am) whatever has been done, the islamic threat is still there, demanding the lives of the innocent. Restrictiveness to one's own security is not enough to provide security in the long run.
Your Hitler has proved the world, and history, that the "world" must not be tursted for providing the basic essenials to the weak and the oppressed. Being weak and defenseless becomes a crime, a risk for national existance and a leathal threat to many lives. Your Hitler has proved the rest of the world WILL NOT "knock on your door", and some crimes carry no punishment and no guilt. Few days ago, Germany has equeated yet another Nazi war crimminal.I see I need to clarify my analogy:
Trying to escape the danger won't work. Appeasement won't work.
The trouble (aka "the [islamic]world" in my example / the Nazis/Hitler in your reference to WWII) will follow suit and knock on your door.
The real world is a crual ocean, big fish eat little fish. Each one is for its own. You are the little fish. One day the big fish will get you. Unless the little fish find a way to make the big fish vegetarian.

Their idea of improving their lives are not equall to your perceptions of improving one lives. The "honor" in mass murdering Jews is by far more valued by them then having a bigger house and bigger car.That is the problem. How to change the cultural value of islamic societies.

Personaly, Marshel plan was a waste of money. Germany should have allowed to remain out casted boycotted and desperatly poor.
Sounds like pre-WW2. Resulting in an even bigger desaster.

The long term affects of the Marshal plan are that the Germans now believe that can distance themselves and forgive themselves for the crimes they did and still do. That they can talk one thing, and practice exactly the opposite. As far as I concern, the day the first Leopard II MBT lowered ashore in some Arab state, its a cause for war against Germany. As it comes ontop of German's sale of Nerv gas technology and raw matrials for Iraq and Syria as well as Germany ON GOING ecconomic and military relations with Iran's current ragime. Outcasting NKorea did not help. Invading Iraq may have it's point, but obviously Iran is not deterred but encouraged to have nuclear weapons.

East Germany would be thired world back water isolated country, so should have West Germany be. East-Germany was armed up to the teeth, it's economy was desperately crippled. Like before WW2.

Because there is no viable comparison between the Italian Facist and the Nazis.I did not intend any comparison. Italy was an example of a country that had help to change from facism to democracy.
You mislead off my point.

The moment the European act fair toward Serbia, Serbia would become a full democracy.I hope so.

[Zlatorog]

The Serbs forced us out of Yugoslavia with freezing of assets and threats that our police must dissarm, then they bombed us and killed tourists and foreign truck drivers. They sent teenagers to fight for border signes. Then they had three months to calm down, so that Yugoslavia could be at least diplomaticaly glued back together, instead they trashed some town in Croatia, declaring it an Ustasha outpost. The Croats had no army there, but the Serbs formed a dozen of special units and sent them to Bosnia, trashed Croatian coastal towns while they were leaving, then they returned and formed Krajina there. When they fled Krajina their solution was to resettle in Kosovo. Why didn't they try to decentralise Kosovo right away? They had to make life unbearable for the Serbs everywhere else, but the most impoverished province. Has any other nation done anything like that in history?

Italy.

Berlusconi once again (yesterday) noone was exiled and murdered during the fascist regime. For us that's close to Holocaust denial, for the rest of the world it's Belusconi sends wine to Sweden. What is reported about our country ranges from nice (trade with Israel jumped 200% last year, Rebbe performed a miracle and saved Slovenia from agression), to total mixup (axis country during WW2, supporters of Bush, migrants to western Europe). That's because foreign scholars keep publishing nonsense comparing our borders with Israel. One such example

http://miran.pecenik.com/ts/balkan/balkan.htm It was / is much worse than that. The article is biased, he was looking for some sort of solution, (his last one means heavy fines and has negative effect in Austria as well), blaming both sides, but I think the elites wage propaganda campaignes because Italy attacked in 1918, 1920, 1922, 1941 until they had settlers here and then scared them of. Their anti fascist resistance do come here at anniversaries.

Italy didn't fight that same curse that Hitler saw after Austria lost WW1, namely, that Germany lost because of inferior nations.

[Zlatorog]

For those who haven't noticed a few things from the article: the author probably knew that Globocnik was an ardent German and a volksdeutscher, except that it was his father that had a slovene surname, someone in his family once married into a German family. He was an Italian German and was never expelled by the fascists as such. As documents show, he wasn't quite sure how to wipe out Slovenian race, when Eichmann had to stop his transports, he, Rainer and Himmler decided to make us German for the time beeing, after that Globocnik's documentation shows that we were supposed to be sent to Poland as slaves. The Jews of Trieste were mainly split in two groups, unvoluntary fascists to keep their jobs, zionists, neither were irredentist. What I don't understand is

why would an antisemite write such an article about Slovenia, on behalf of Slovenia, suggesting that we waged some sort of coincidental revenge against the Jews, when we were smuggling thousands from Austria and Italy and supporting their resistance (Nono Corpo). At what time could Slovenes become antisemites there when they had no newspapers, schools, banks, jobs.... and were generally expelled to the US? There was fierce destruction of such schools and railway tracks

why are we under attack with threats that we will end like Anna Frank, with swastikas and broken glass, resulting in articles such as Just like Jews , which is itself antisemitic

[minusthejihad]

The only way to improve your security is to help them getting busy with constructively improving their lives - but they are not, yet.Thats the problem with you socialists, you'd rather lower the bar so all the stupid kids in class can catch up while all the intelligent, motivated ones suffer. No thanks. The Arab World had has plenty of help. The Palestinians have received more aid per capita than any other "group" in the world. And they are still called refugees in camps even though they've been living in apartment buildings in cities under their control for decades. In Russian we have a term for what they deserve from us. It's called "Fig" which means "jack diddly squat", and that's what they deserve. Besides, they'll always have Europe next door, the Arab World's personal methedone clinic.



I was under the impression since 9/11, that the #1 danger would be Saudi-Arabia. Maybe the key to the islamic threat.
Sure, I ALL FOR attacking Saudi like you are, but I think we should start with countries openly defying international rule like Iran for openly calling for another state's destruction and Syria for protecting terrorists and supporting Hezbullah. Don't worry Roland, our wish will be granted!

[Roland]

Thats the problem with you socialists, you'd rather lower the bar so all the stupid kids in class can catch up while all the intelligent, motivated ones suffer. No thanks. I wonder why you said this. As if our awful schoolsystem would not need a kick in the *.
I'm all for promoting the bright kids, even for separating them from the others in elitary schools. They are not the problem, though.
Leaving the others unattended is what causes the trouble.
Enough uneducated and later unemployed kids already have nothing else to do but terrorising the neighborhood. The won't value work, they are unproductive. Easy targets for nazi/islamist-recruiters.
The Arab World had has plenty of help. The Palestinians have received more aid per capita than any other "group" in the world. And they are still called refugees in camps even though they've been living in apartment buildings in cities under their control for decades.Yes. Money does not help distracting them from their terror-hobby. The question is: What does it take to change their mind, from terrorism to valueing a prospering society?

[Mercury]

Roland,

You still haven't answered my question. I guess you missed it (look on the previous page).

[Mediocrates]

The question is: What does it take to change their mind, from terrorism to valueing a prospering society?


I don't know. But I'm not so young and naive as to pretend that there are no such things as cultural ethics, cultural branding, cultural mores and they really do make a difference and some people embrace them while others do not and there isn't an infinite amount of effort you can expend to overcome that.

Why are black kids in the US failing but Hispanics are not? Why do women do poorly in engineering programs? Why is math hard? Why does the stereotype of the Jewish doctor, lawyer, accountant exist? Again I don't know, but maybe the question is ineffable. Maybe there are cultural semaphores that cause one group to succeed for inexplicable reasons that can't easily be copied. And before anyone accuse me of Bell-Curve thinking, that's not it. It's not inherent, it's societal just like teen pregnancy. You see?

Maybe the best and only thing you can do is hope to elevate everyone, more or less. Whether it's the same for all or not is unimportant. Just push everyone a little and hope for the best. I promise you that otherwise you'll spend the next 50 years debugging something you don't understand.

[minusthejihad]

The question is: What does it take to change their mind, from terrorism to valueing a prospering society?

I honestly don't care. When they figure it out like every other civilized society has, tell them to give me a call.

[physics]

It seems like many Arab fanatics value martyrdom and murder more than a luxurious lifestyl.e

[Roland]

Roland,

You still haven't answered my question. I guess you missed it (look on the previous page).
More countries that had help? I have already named Germany and Italy. Add Austria, South Korea and Japan if you like.

[Mercury]

More countries that had help? I have already named Germany and Italy. Add Austria, South Korea and Japan if you like.

So from your examples I conclude that all help should start with massive bombardment, followed by invasion and military occupation. Then follows the turn of exacting the reparations for past aggressions, possibly accompanied by plundering. Then the invaders write a new constitution and behold - we have a new democracy.

[Mil]

Posted by Mercury:


So from your examples I conclude that all help should start with massive bombardment, followed by invasion and military occupation. Then follows the turn of exacting the reparations for past aggressions, possibly accompanied by plundering. Then the invaders write a new constitution and behold - we have a new democracy.

And why not?

I find that most people who have an issue with Rezun are either your normal WWII fanatics or Russian nationalists. I bet you are the latter.

We all know that Amerikosi eze te pidori.... right?

[Mercury]

So first Bukharin is a jew and now I'm a russian nationalist. I can't wait to see your next revelation.

[Mil]

Fine, lets change Bukharin to Sverdlov.

I can't wait to see your next revelation.

So did T-34s fly at Khalkin Gol?

[Roland]

So from your examples I conclude that all help should start with massive bombardment, followed by invasion and military occupation. Then follows the turn of exacting the reparations for past aggressions, possibly accompanied by plundering. Then the invaders write a new constitution and behold - we have a new democracy.
Wrong. (I just knew you wouldn't (want to) get the point.)
Eastern and western european nations would have become democratic after WW2 then, right? Well, the eastern nations had no help. They became communist dictatorships instead.
The difference was made after the end of the war.

[Mercury]

Wrong. (I just knew you wouldn't (want to) get the point.)

If you knew that already why didn't you explain it differently in the first place?


Eastern and western european nations would have become democratic after WW2 then, right? Well, the eastern nations had no help. They became communist dictatorships instead.
The difference was made after the end of the war.

I guess don't get your point again. The eastern nation (at least the three northern ones) would have become democratic. They just got too much "help" from USSR.

[Roland]

The eastern nation (at least the three northern ones) would have become democratic. They just got too much "help" from USSR.
Now I don't get yours.
Any attempts to become democratic have been crushed by the USSR.
No democracy in East-Germany, Poland or Czechoslovakia.

[Gilgamesh]

Now I don't get yours.
Any attempts to become democratic have been crushed by the USSR.
No democracy in East-Germany, Poland or Czechoslovakia.
This was mercury's point, exactly. The USSR military presence in eastern Europe have prevented countries like Czechoslovakia to become democracies. It is not that the West had abondoned them, hence they become communist, it's the fact that on Yalta summit, the big three have begun the cold war, the post Nazi Europe, and the world would be divided between the three.( Stalin, Churchil and Truman).

The up side was, that all the Nazis former allies got a big warm hug from the Russian bear, which is fine with me. They got what they deserved, winter vecation in Sieberia. Had I got it my way, ALL of Germany was under Soviet control to this day. The only countries who undergone real de-Nazification were communist countries. The down side was, that Communist sphear and USSR gone increacingly anti Zionist and anti semite.
For the rest, I don't care.

[Gilgamesh]

I have no unexposed colors and I know yours. You still mistrust me, but you are still barking up the wrong tree. I follow your main papers, and I can read between the lines, both in your magazines and in posts like these.

Germany,and the German people, are a far cry from their self image they demand the world to see. Germany is too powerful and too dangerous.

Yes. But as you see (and you are sitting much closer to the ME-trouble than I am) whatever has been done, the islamic threat is still there, demanding the lives of the innocent. Restrictiveness to one's own security is not enough to provide security in the long run. the option of force was not fully exploited by Israel, or the West.

Turky, is a prime example, we Israelis like to think about. One day, Turky had enough of the PKK terrorism, an organization aided by the Syrians. Turky moved 10,000 soldiers to the Syrian border and delivered an Ulitimatum, either Asad delivers Ocealan to the Turks, or the Turks come to Damascus to take him. Turks, are not Israelis or any other Westerners. Turkish invasion means REAL sufferings to the Arabs. Israel, has never done so but we should have planty of times before.

You are the little fish. One day the big fish will get you. Unless the little fish find a way to make the big fish vegetarian. I can't become a big fish overnight therefor, I've to buy some time till I do. We must teach the big fish, that we have a poison bone in our bodies, bite us and they'll die in agony.

That is the problem. How to change the cultural value of islamic societies. See: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Hamburg. Germany has lost alot: territory, prestige, honor ect... (I don't count German lives, cause I don't really care... neither did the Germans). The Arabs have yet to lose anything.

Sounds like pre-WW2. Resulting in an even bigger desaster. The problem was not the post first world war conditions imposed on the Germans, but the fact these conditions were not FORCED! Even after the second world war was declared in 1939, France and Britian, who had superior Army at the time, STILL were relactant to fight the Germans, for 7 monthes! Till the Nazis invaded France. ( and even then, the French were not fully committed for war).

Outcasting NKorea did not help. Invading Iraq may have it's point, but obviously Iran is not deterred but encouraged to have nuclear weapons. Russia and Germany do the ecorouraging. While I have no expectaions from the Russians, the Germans keep sounding repents and declare they're changed people. A claim they were, so far unable to prove. Germany have relations with Irans despite the world attempt to isolate that ragime, and punish it.

I've heared German's Chanslor wishing to visit Israel. I wonder how long will it take till the Iranian president, the one who denies the holocaust, will be invited in to Berlin... This is German hypocracy!

East-Germany was armed up to the teeth, it's economy was desperately crippled. Like before WW2. So? USSR had collapesed.

I did not intend any comparison. Italy was an example of a country that had help to change from facism to democracy. They got help! half a million allied soldiers worth of help.

[Labyu]

You are really giving all the answers.
Your (and you are not alone with this) miserable, shortsighted, careless, ignorant and selfrighteous egocentrism is a reason why
- they still run their own countries in such poor fashions
- their lives still are so miserable

and Europeans are not?This whole mess is the result of Europen Colonial practices and suppresion of indigenous advancment for several hundred years!

You are a gigantic hypocrite blaming the very people "mauled and disenfranchised" in Europe by some little "Austrian Turd" and his EuroCentric henchmen for egocentrism and short sightedness!Europeans left for America for the same reason Jews fled to Israel,Euro-Centric hypocrisy and oppresion!

If Americans (and especially Jews) specifically owe these cavemen a dollar then the EU owes us(and them) a billion dollars each!

Your position is unbeleiveable,you live in Hamburg which is teeming with Neo-Nazis and Anti-Semitic Morrocans,Turks,etc (often living in poverty) and you have the nerve to try shifting the blame to us?
When I was in Hamburg I would get harrassed and browbeaten within seconds of being found out to be an American and God forbid if they found out I was a Jew they would circle around me and try to menace me right in the middle of the damned commisary!!!

You Europeans need to "shut your mouths and open your wallets" when it comes to discussions of Social Justice because you didn't even have a concept of it until contact with Judeo/Christian teaching and have since perverted it into a subjective popularity contest awarding whoever serves your interests and emotions the best as the one deserving BASIC HUMAN DECENCY!!!

A few million American Jews have done far more to ease the world's suffering over the last century than the Germans have in their entire history!!


They need help! So many other countries had help and could not have become on their own what they are now - stable and demoratic friends. But they are left to their own devices.

Most of these countries will impose the death penalty for evenopening a dicussion about the way their elite want to rule their own country and the "downtrodden masses" are so archaic and suspicious of any efforts to help them they will rat you out the minute you are out of earshot.

It's as hard to befriend these countries as it is to have a flat mate who is a serial rapist.Constantly having to overlook their abuses and then having nothing you can say in their defense when their victims demand redress in front of you.Preposterous,they could have friends or they can have Islam but not both.

Why don't their trillionaire Arab League co-religionists buddies turn loose of a few billion dollars?Because they don't give a damned and they are just as primitive and belligerent but with more money and a better PR department.



They won't become constructive by their own initiative and have nothing left to loose. They are not yet busy enough with improving their lives.
Because you are only worried about your own security.
In that sense you help to make sure these fanatics do attack Israel and U.S.A. Therefor you have a good reason to worry about your security.
Maybe their fault, but their problem becomes your problem, too. And that again is your fault.


Maybe the EU can use all of the money,property freed up from Jews during the holocaust to help these folks?Oh that's right it's all in some greedy Swiss,German,French and Belgian pockets isn't it?The EU is being turned into a cesspool by all of the 3rd world criminals you have invited in only they don't have the balls to admit it or deal with it because every European with enough common sense or initiative to cope whith this kind of situation MOVED TO AMERICA generations ago :D Hence the need to call America in to solve Europe's internal military problems!

The American formula of maximum self-determination and stuff does not work with the rest of the world, without you starting to be worried about a lot more things than just your own self.


Subjectivist morality from an immoral culture is the European bent these days so let's get on it.We are not anywhere near the Nietzscheists that you Europeans are and do not have to make descisions based in our fear of being overrun by 3rd world belligerents for our past sins.The US is a young nation that has had more impact on the quality of life in 3rd world countries than all of the European nations combined yet at this late date after Colonializing West Asia,India and Africa,stealing the resources from the entire planet giving almost nothing in return and even subjegating your own people for thousands of years you want to tell the "Bearers of Light and Democracy" to the entire world that this is somehow our fault?

We gave at the office,now it's your turn.

PS Give Jews their damned money,property and real estate back from before WW2 or take your demands for social justice/equity and shove them up your wazoo!!


Right now there are white Europeans living in,building on and profitting from property stolen from Jews their anscestors mudered!!!

[Roland]

and Europeans are not?This whole mess is the result of Europen Colonial practices and suppresion of indigenous advancment for several hundred years!Yes - and you expect me to undo millenia of injustice and revive a billion murdered innocent people?
Besides putting rightfully all the blame for the status quo on the european nations and especially germany for colonialism, nazism and whatever comes to your mind - there is the task of improving the situation.
You are a gigantic hypocrite blaming the very people "mauled and disenfranchised" in Europe by some little "Austrian Turd" and his EuroCentric henchmen for egocentrism and short sightedness!Europeans left for America for the same reason Jews fled to Israel,Euro-Centric hypocrisy and oppresion!Bull5hit - I don't.
If Americans (and especially Jews) specifically owe these cavemen a dollar then the EU owes us(and them) a billion dollars each!No and no. "Owe" is not "what is neccessary to do".

Your position is unbeleiveable,you live in Hamburg which is teeming with Neo-Nazis and Anti-Semitic Morrocans,Turks,etc (often living in poverty) and you have the nerve to try shifting the blame to us? Read again. I don't. Our definition of "teeming" seems to differ. When I was in Hamburg I would get harrassed and browbeaten within seconds of being found out to be an American and God forbid if they found out I was a Jew they would circle around me and try to menace me right in the middle of the damned commisary!!!Obviously, you have absolutely no idea. Hamburg is a perfectly safe and hospitable place.
You Europeans need to "shut your mouths and open your wallets" when it comes to discussions of Social Justice because you didn't even have a concept of it until contact with Judeo/Christian teaching and have since perverted it into a subjective popularity contest awarding whoever serves your interests and emotions the best as the one deserving BASIC HUMAN DECENCY!!!As discussed in all length, money alone is not helpful, if not counterproductive.
A few million American Jews have done far more to ease the world's suffering over the last century than the Germans have in their entire history!!That is unquestioned, so what? You are still putting blame, digging in history. You will get that history continued if nothing will change in Israel neighbours countries. You don't care about them? That won't help establishing a peaceful mindset there - can you agree to that?
Most of these countries will impose the death penalty for evenopening a dicussion about the way their elite want to rule their own country and the "downtrodden masses" are so archaic and suspicious of any efforts to help them they will rat you out the minute you are out of earshot.

It's as hard to befriend these countries as it is to have a flat mate who is a serial rapist.Constantly having to overlook their abuses and then having nothing you can say in their defense when their victims demand redress in front of you.Preposterous,they could have friends or they can have Islam but not both.

Why don't their trillionaire Arab League co-religionists buddies turn loose of a few billion dollars?Because they don't give a damned and they are just as primitive and belligerent but with more money and a better PR department.
Yes.Maybe the EU can use all of the money,property freed up from Jews during the holocaust to help these folks?Oh that's right it's all in some greedy Swiss,German,French and Belgian pockets isn't it?The EU is being turned into a cesspool by all of the 3rd world criminals you have invited in only they don't have the balls to admit it or deal with it because every European with enough common sense or initiative to cope whith this kind of situation MOVED TO AMERICA generations ago :D Hence the need to call America in to solve Europe's internal military problems!I am still here. Many of my relatives are american citizens.
I don't have that money in my pocket.Subjectivist morality from an immoral culture is the European bent these days so let's get on it.We are not anywhere near the Nietzscheists that you Europeans are and do not have to make descisions based in our fear of being overrun by 3rd world belligerents for our past sins.And Mexico is a completely different case.:rolleyes: The US is a young nation that has had more impact on the quality of life in 3rd world countries than all of the European nations combined yet at this late date after Colonializing West Asia,India and Africa,stealing the resources from the entire planet giving almost nothing in return and even subjegating your own people for thousands of years you want to tell the "Bearers of Light and Democracy" to the entire world that this is somehow our fault?America is doing something else with it's satellites? Installing anticommunist dictatorships around the globe had nothing to do with the USA?