Jews Of Iran

[physics]

Why isn't there any strong pressure to release the Jews Of Iran? I can't imagine how they could live there. :mad:

[Cyrus the Great]

Why isn't there any strong pressure to release the Jews Of Iran? I can't imagine how they could live there. :mad:

What do you mean by pressure to release the Jews? The Persian Jews are not being held hostage in Iran. They are free to leave anytime they want, like many Jewish and non Jewish Persians like myself already have. But believe it or not many Persian Jews are loyal to Iran (not the Iranian government) and rather live in Iran than move to Israel. I mean can you blame them, their families have been living in Iran for almost 2000 years. They are as Iranian as any other non Jew Persian. They have many friends in Iran. They speak Parsi better than Hebrew and they celebrate Persian new year and holidays. They are VERY Iranian and are not give up Iran that easily. I agree, the ones that have stayed in Iran are very couragous. I however, as a Zoroastrian was a coward and left Iran.

[Cato]

But it is Haram to celebrate Persian New Year and Holidays in Iran now.

Besides it is illegal for Iranian Jews to go to Israel, Zionism is a capital offense that jews have been hanged in Iran for.

[Mira]

I mean can you blame them, their families have been living in Iran for almost 2000 years.

Longer,....you should know that based on who you named yourself after.

[Cato]

Come on Mira, everyone in this forum lived in the 20th century so got used to saying 2000 years when reffering to Cyrus the Great.

[Toga]

I however, as a Zoroastrian was a coward and left Iran.

If Jews had been less tolerant, idealistic and at least as 50% as smart as the Zoroastrians our history would have been a lot less turbulent.

[Toga]

But it is Haram to celebrate Persian New Year and Holidays in Iran now.

Besides it is illegal for Iranian Jews to go to Israel, Zionism is a capital offense that jews have been hanged in Iran for.

Some Jews never learn the lessons of history. When a problematic country goes down a Jew is the target.

[Cyrus the Great]

But it is Haram to celebrate Persian New Year and Holidays in Iran now.

Besides it is illegal for Iranian Jews to go to Israel, Zionism is a capital offense that jews have been hanged in Iran for.

I don't know who told you that celebrating the Persian New Year is Haram in Iran. It has been celebrated every year and it is as an official holiday. Even the government celebrates it. People get 13 days off starting from March 21st (First day of Spring). If a Jew goes to Israel and comes back then yes he is hanged. But what idiot would return to Iran after going to Israel ?!

[Cyrus the Great]

Longer,....you should know that based on who you named yourself after.

I round that off to a millenia :) It's about 2550 years to be more accurate. :)

[Hebrew Swede]

But what idiot would return to Iran after going to Israel ?!

You wrote that after you wrote this:

But believe it or not many Persian Jews are loyal to Iran (not the Iranian government) and rather live in Iran than move to Israel.

To me that sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Are you saying that Iranian Jews that love living in their Jewish communities in Iran, would not be interested to just visit Irsael and then go back to their beloved Jewish communities in Iran?

Are you okay with the fact that Jews can be hanged for visiting Israel?

[Hebrew Swede]

I however, as a Zoroastrian was a coward and left Iran.

Just curious, why believe in a dualistic religion like Zoroastrianism and not monotheism? Ahura Mazda is not one spirit, but devided into two spirits, Spenta Mainyu (good) and the Angra Mainyu (evil). Everything on Earth is either Spenta or Angra. Animals such as horses are Spenta (good) and snakes are Angra (bad).

Some people might not like snakes, because they are slithery, have venom or constrict their prey and swallow them whole. But does this make them evil?

Except for this black-and-white mentality, Zoroastrianism seems to me like a very nice and peaceful religion.

[Hebrew Swede]

I however, as a Zoroastrian was a coward and left Iran.

PS. I don't think you were a coward for leaving Iran and moving to America. Obviously you were looking for a better future. There's no shame in that.

[Hebrew Swede]

If Jews had been less tolerant, idealistic and at least as 50% as smart as the Zoroastrians our history would have been a lot less turbulent.

If Jews were less tolerant we wouldn't be Jews.

[Ariksan]

To me that sounds like you're contradicting yourself.

He does not contradict himself at all. Opposing the Arab rule over Iran is being loyal to Iran - not the other way arround.

[Harlequin]

Eggs and basket come to mind. And sure, there is a demographic issue in Israel. But isn't there also a limit to the carrying capacity of the current extent of Israel?

[Hebrew Swede]

He does not contradict himself at all. Opposing the Arab rule over Iran is being loyal to Iran - not the other way arround.

That has nothing to do with the contradiction I was talking about. I suggest you read my post again.

[Cyrus the Great]

You wrote that after you wrote this:



To me that sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Are you saying that Iranian Jews that love living in their Jewish communities in Iran, would not be interested to just visit Irsael and then go back to their beloved Jewish communities in Iran?

Are you okay with the fact that Jews can be hanged for visiting Israel?

I am not contradicting myself at all. Persian Jews are loyal to the country of Iran not the current government which does not represent Iran at all. The Jews that decided to keep living in Iran did so because they love Iran (not the Iranian government) enough that they would rather live in Iran than to visit Israel or live in Israel. To them Iran is and has for a long time been their home land.
Of course I am not okay with the fact that Jews can be hanged for visiting Israel (It's not just jews either, anyone who visits Israel is in danger in Iran), but I don't control the Iranian government.

[Ariksan]

That has nothing to do with the contradiction I was talking about. I suggest you read my post again.

I did not misread your post. It has exactly and everything to do with your post. If you want to talk about contradictions we could talk about you for example.... you call yourself a "Hebrew Swede" while living in the US... (??).

One can be a patriotic Iranian but live outside of Iran and yearn to return. Actually, it would be very hard for a true patriotic Iranian to live in Iran under the Mullahs. Your animosity towards "Cyrus the Great" is puzzling to me. Where do you get the idea that he supports hanging Jews?

[Cyrus the Great]

Just curious, why believe in a dualistic religion like Zoroastrianism and not monotheism? Ahura Mazda is not one spirit, but devided into two spirits, Spenta Mainyu (good) and the Angra Mainyu (evil). Everything on Earth is either Spenta or Angra. Animals such as horses are Spenta (good) and snakes are Angra (bad).

Some people might not like snakes, because they are slithery, have venom or constrict their prey and swallow them whole. But does this make them evil?

Except for this black-and-white mentality, Zoroastrianism seems to me like a very nice and peaceful religion.

I don't think you understand Zoroastrianism very well. Zoroastrianism is a monothiest religion. It is in fact believed to be the first monothiest religion on earth (some say Judaism, some say Zoroastrianism. That's still debated). You are right, Zoroastrianism is a dualistic religion. That does not mean we believe in two Gods, that means that we believe everything is a struggle of good versus evil . Ahura Mazda represnting the good side and Ahreeman represnting the evil side. This is very similar to the Judeo-Christian God and Satan. Just because Christians believe in God and Satan, does that mean they are not monothiest? You should also know that it is widely believed by scholars that Zoroastrian doctrines, those of heaven and hell, the struggle of good versus evil, and a redeeming messiah, have deeply influenced the Jewish and Christian religions.

Besides, I was born into a Zoroastrian family. I myself am not religious at all but I believe Zoroastrianism to be a very important part of the true Iranian culture and heritage. So yes, I celebrate the Festival of Fires, the Norooz, Farvardigan and Khordad Sal, not because I am religious but because that's part of my culture and heritage.

[Toga]

I don't know who told you that celebrating the Persian New Year is Haram in Iran. It has been celebrated every year and it is as an official holiday. Even the government celebrates it. People get 13 days off starting from March 21st (First day of Spring). If a Jew goes to Israel and comes back then yes he is hanged. But what idiot would return to Iran after going to Israel ?!


There are some. We have very stupid Jews.

[Ariksan]

This is very similar to the Judeo-Christian God and Satan. Just because Christians believe in God and Satan

I agree with you that Zoroastrianism should be viewed as monothiest. But I have to correct a common misconception about Judasim.

Judaism does not believe in Satan like the Christians do. In fact it is one of the major theological differences between Judaism and Christianity besides the Messias thingy. In Judaism there is no battle between God and Satan. Also, Satan - especially in Kabballistic Judaism - is not necessarily viewed as a being but rather as a spirit or a 'bad vibe'.

Rabbi N. Silberberg:

G-d created Satan, and he is a messenger of, and subservient to, G-d. His mission is to try to deter people from doing G-d's will. G-d wants us to resist Satan and, thereby, earn our reward. If there was no Satan we wouldn't deserve credit for doing the right thing.

The Zohar compares the Satan to a harlot who is hired by a king to try to seduce his son, because the king wants to test his son's morality and worthiness. Both the king and the harlot (who is devoted to the king) really want the son to stand firm and reject the harlot's advances.

[Toga]

If Jews were less tolerant we wouldn't be Jews.

We would be Jews. We would just be more normal Jews. We would care a little more about the Jewish communities than how to save the humanity.

[Cyrus the Great]

I agree with you that Zoroastrianism should be viewed as monothiest. But I have to correct a common misconception about Judasim.

Judaism does not believe in Satan like the Christians do. In fact it is one of the major theological differences between Judaism and Christianity besides the Messias thingy. In Judaism there is no battle between God and Satan. Also, Satan - especially in Kabballistic Judaism - is not necessarily viewed as a being but rather as a spirit or a 'bad vibe'.

Rabbi N. Silberberg:

Thanks for correcting me :) I had no idea Judaism does not believe in Satan. That's very interesting. I am learning more about Judaism every day on this forum :D

[Ariksan]

Thanks for correcting me :) I had no idea Judaism does not believe in Satan. That's very interesting. I am learning more about Judaism every day on this forum :D

Well, we do, just in a very different way ;).

[Mil]

sss

[Mil]

Posted by physics:

Why isn't there any strong pressure to release the Jews Of Iran? I can't imagine how they could live there.

My grandmother is from town/village of Berezino, in Belarus. Large Jewish shtetl. My gramma's family had a house, a plot of land, and a cow - possessions they worked for all their lives. My gramma's family was poor.

When Germans invaded some Jews in the village decided to evacuate the others could not leave their houses and cows, the only possessions they had and worked for all their lives. Those who left survived and those who stayed were killed. My grand-grand-mother gave a fit at the train station - she did not want to leave the cow (the biggest possession); my gramma's family almost stayed because of a freaking COW.

[physics]

Obviously, the Iranian Jews don't know anything about other options of life. Of course they got used to Iran. If the Iranian borders are truly open for them, which I doubt, then they must leave, otherwise they learned nothing from history.

Look at the Soviet Jews, they didn't really complain because they simply got used to life there. After they left, most reazlied how ridiculous Jewish life was there.

[physics]

Guess what, despite the good times in Iran, now is the time to leave. This is a repeat of Jewish history. Good times followed by bad times, at which point Jews finally left. It's only a matter of time.

The Iranian Jews are denied to have any connection to Israel, and that's a big reason to leave. They are brainwashed by the Iranians.

[Mil]

After they left, most reazlied how ridiculous Jewish life was there.

Soviet Jews did not leave USSR/Russia because of lack of Jewish life. Most leave because they COULD LEAVE!!!!!

[physics]

Soviet Jews did not leave USSR/Russia because of lack of Jewish life. Most leave because they COULD LEAVE!!!!!

Yes, I exactly. That's what my family did, along with 100,000's of others.

But Iran's borders are obviously sealed for Jews.

[physics]

I'd like to add that after Jews escaped, they refled back on the Anti-Semitism, the lack of Jewish culture and complete assimilation to the Soviet culture. During the Soviet era, they had no choices. But now, they realized how ridiculous life was for Jews.

Same goes for Iran. I am sure once they leave, they'll realize the evil that exists there today. They would also stop celebrating the Persian new year, since it'd be worthless and they wouldn't be under pressure.

[physics]

Before 1948 not too many Mizrahi & Sephardi Jews expected to leave their homeland. Before 1989, not too many Soviet Jews expected to leave their homeland. Times change. It's time for Iran's Jews to change.

[Mediocrates]

There are about 11-25K Jews left in Iran. There is a larger group of ex Jews/anousim from the Mashad region. In fact one of the tighest wealiest Jewish sub communities in the US is Mashadi Jews. They are concentrated in LA and NYC. Many Jews still in Iran live in Tehran and Shiraz.


Purim takes place in Iran.

[Mira]

Thanks for correcting me :) I had no idea Judaism does not believe in Satan. That's very interesting. I am learning more about Judaism every day on this forum :DJust remember, this board is a very small sample of the Jewish world. In the real world, there are Jews who not only talk, but they also listen. You can even find Jews who don't like to argue.

[Mira]

sssYou're a snake?

[Mira]

Obviously, the Iranian Jews don't know anything about other options of life. Of course they got used to Iran. If the Iranian borders are truly open for them, which I doubt, then they must leave, otherwise they learned nothing from history.

Look at the Soviet Jews, they didn't really complain because they simply got used to life there. After they left, most reazlied how ridiculous Jewish life was there.

Where should they go? The US? Maybe they can't go to the US. To Israel? Look, I love Israel. I think about Israel all the time. But, Israeli culture is different from Persian culture. It's very similar when times are good, but when you are struggling and times are bad, it's very different. There is a large Persian diaspora in Los Angeles. Maybe they could go there if things get really bad for them. I mean, if their lives are threatened, they could go to Los Angeles. If their lives are not threatened, and it would be hard for them to know that until somebody comes for them and then it's too late, I think they prefer Iran.

[redcake]

A lot of PERSIANS have left Iran too.... and we know they don't even like to call it Iran. So they're loyal to a nation which doesn't exist anymore, and despite their pride, they're not afraid to admit it's become one which has become sealed with oppression....for EVERYONE, not just for Jews. Most of them risked their lives to go to and from Iran. So how lovely is it to be a Jew under a contradictory Shari'a State? The limitations on Jewish life are far greater then celebrating a holiday.

[Mediocrates]

"They should combine Iraq and Iran and make one country called Irate"


-Dennis Leary

[Mira]

A lot of PERSIANS have left Iran too.... and we know they don't even like to call it Iran. So they're loyal to a nation which doesn't exist anymore, and despite their pride, they're not afraid to admit it's become one which has become sealed with oppression....for EVERYONE, not just for Jews. Most of them risked their lives to go to and from Iran. So how lovely is it to be a Jew under a contradictory Shari'a State? The limitations on Jewish life are far greater then celebrating a holiday.

Well, redcake. Israel as a modern Jewish state living side by side with the Palestinians is a really crazy idea. And yet how many people go on and on trying to figure out how to eventually make peace without Israel being shreaded. I think if you live someplace, then you take part in all the struggles that go there for better or for worse. Those on the outside, but still have a stake in the place have less to say with real authority. They do what they can do from the outside and that isn't much. But they still have a stake. They still dream about this other place. It's still in their hearts. So how do you reconcile wanting to change or improve a place where you don't live and loving a place that doesn't exist anymore?

[physics]

I want Iran to give its Jews the freedom to leave. If the borders were truly open, then the Jews would carefully plan their departure to Israel. Now, Iran is a hellll hole for the Jews. But of course, they are brainwashed.

[physics]

Today's Israeli Mizrahi Jews are surely glad they left a long time ago. Look at the Arab countries today, Jewish life has vanished.

Let's be real, it's time for Iran's Jews to leave. The gates to Israel are open. If they have sufficient time to plan and take their assets, then it would be a better move.

[physics]

There is just no bright future for Iran's Jews. Letting go is difficult, but it must be done. Iranian Jews must learn from the rest of Jews.

[physics]

Those who left survived and those who stayed were killed. My grand-grand-mother gave a fit at the train station - she did not want to leave the cow (the biggest possession); my gramma's family almost stayed because of a freaking COW.

My grandmother and her family lived in Belarus also. When the Nazi's invaded, they escaped. After the war, they returned only to find someone else living in their house and their property dispersed all over the neighborhood.

What are the Iranian Jews waiting for? the day their houses get attacked? It'd be nice for them to have freedom to leave.

[Mira]

Today's Israeli Mizrahi Jews are surely glad they left a long time ago. Look at the Arab countries today, Jewish life has vanished.

Let's be real, it's time for Iran's Jews to leave. The gates to Israel are open. If they have sufficient time to plan and take their assets, then it would be a better move.

I love Israel and I will be moving back with my fiance after he graduates. BUT, I'm not sure I would be so willing to go if there weren't hundred of thousands of observant Jews living elsewhere who I know would remain Jewish if the "ship" goes down in the holy land. The situation is as precarious for Jews in Israel as it is for Jews in Iran. Jews in Israel may have an army, but the Palestinians can stand on one of many hill tops in the West Bank and fire rockets down into major Israeli cities. It is only a matter of time before the war escalates and the Palestinians are better equipted and ready to escalate the war.

[physics]

It is only a matter of time before the war escalates and the Palestinians are better equipted and ready to escalate the war.

Dear Mira, Israel has always been soft on the Palis. Israel can wipe out the Palis and send a clear message anytime, anywhere. The Pals rockets are no match for Israels army. If the Palis wage a real war, they will lose.

[Mediocrates]

I love Israel and I will be moving back with my fiance after he graduates. BUT, I'm not sure I would be so willing to go if there weren't hundred of thousands of observant Jews living elsewhere who I know would remain Jewish if the "ship" goes down in the holy land.


You stay there and we'll keep the light on for ya.

[Mira]

You stay there and we'll keep the light on for ya.


Thanks. Of course, if another six million of us are killed off, good luck with those Jews who refuse to believe in Hamshem anymore. If there's another holocaust and if I survive, then I will take you up on your suggestion to get in touch with my inner canibal. I will literally eat human flesh.

[Cyrus the Great]

Physics, believe it or not, the Jews of Iran are FREE to leave whenever they want. All they need to do is get a visa, got to a country that's not Israel then go to Israel from that country. And believe me the Iranian Jews are not brainwashed. Why is it so hard for you to imagine that the remaining Iranian Jews PERFER to stay in Iran than to move to Israel. They see no connection to Israel. Except for the past 25 years, Iran has been very good to Jews for almost 2500 years now. The current government does not represent Iran and the Persian Jewish community in Iran knows that and they decided to stay in Iran with the the other Iranians and try to get Iran back. This is the truth, whether you want to belive it or not!

[Cyrus the Great]

Read this article done by the "The Foundation for the Advancement of Sephardic Studies and Culture" about Iranian Jews :

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html

[physics]

Well then the Iranian Jews are nothing more than an isolated minority among Jews. Their fellow brothers and sisters left Iran decades ago, and surely don't hope to return.

If they are as free as you claim, then I am shocked that they could live there after their regimes Holocaust Denial and threat to wipe out Israel. Well, if the Iranian Jews don't care about other Jews, then I say leave the Iranian Jews behind. I don't want them to complain in the future. I give up on them. :rolleyes:

[physics]

The current government does not represent Iran and the Persian Jewish community in Iran knows that and they decided to stay in Iran with the the other Iranians and try to get Iran back. This is the truth, whether you want to belive it or not!

Well what future does Iran hold for its people? do you expect it to change or head into a deeper hole of evil? I don't see Iran improving for the good.

Jewry in Arab world is dead. Too bad the Iranian Jews don't take the right steps.

[Cyrus the Great]

I was actually informed by another Iranian friend of mine thatthe Iranian Jews that move to Israel are actually encouraged by the Iranian government to move back to Iran without any consequences.

[Cyrus the Great]

Here is another article about Persian Jews who moved to Israel but now want to move back to Iran ,


November 8, 2005

By: Eli Berdenstein

Moussa (not his real name) still faces his final arrangements before he joins his wife and children in Iran. They packed their bags and left, and are waiting for him there. Moussa and his family stayed in Israel for 18 months.


They came from Tehran bearing new hopes, and fought 18 months to stay, until they gave in and decided to return.

Before they came to Israel, they sold their belongings in Iran. Here they bought a small shop at the entrance of Ben-Yehuda St. in Jerusalem. Moussa, 51, opened a jewelry shop, but the enterprise failed, and he rented the place to someone else. The renters opened a small restaurant, but that did not succeed either. The restaurant declared bankruptcy a few weeks ago, and Moussa found himself drowning in debt.

His merchant neighbors and colleagues—also Iranian immigrants—said that he had given up hope. “He put all his money in the store,” one neighbor said. “The real estate agents ripped him off and sold him the store for twice its value. The renters didn’t pay the rent, and the lawyer he hired to follow up on the debts swindled him and stole his money.”

The neighbor added that Moussa was drowning in debt, illness, and grief. “He told us he couldn’t go on like this and that he would go back to Iran,” the neighbor said. “He said that even though he’s a Jew, in Iran they don’t give up on a person like here in Israel and they never cheated him.”

“This is much worse than Iran”

One neighbor, who left Iran 18 years ago, said, “Not a small number of Jews went back to Iran after they despaired of the way they were treated here. We thought we were coming to a paradise, that a Jew wouldn’t cheat another Jew. But it turns out that it’s much worse than Iran, and making a living is much harder. I haven’t sold anything since the morning. I want to go back to Iran, too, but my wife won’t allow it.”

He says that the Iranian authorities encourage Jews to return to Iran. “They welcome us there because they think that Jews returning to Iran from Israel is good publicity,” he explains. One veteran of the Iranian community says, “Iranians want the Jews to come back to them to use them through security interrogations and as propaganda against Israel.”

Over the last 12 years, some 3,100 Jews have emigrated from Iran. In 2000, 420 Jews emigrated from Iran. Since that time, the wave of immigration has slowed. About 6% of the immigrants left Israel, most of them for the US. Some of them went back to Iran, where the Jewish community currently numbers about 25,000.

“It’s strange for them to go back there,” says Soli Karni, the director of the Iranian Immigrants Union. He adds that the competent authorities in Israel are doing their best to convince Iranian Jews to immigrate to Israel, but it is not enough.

“While everything now has become fine for them, they’re sitting on a powder keg,” he says. “I’m afraid that the anger towards Americans will lead to attacks on Jews. Everyone who goes back there is like a snowball: He can influence other Jews, causing them not to come to Israel, and all our work will be for nothing. We must do everything we can to facilitate their absorption in Israel. We need to remember that they’re Jews in trouble.”

[Cyrus the Great]

Well what future does Iran hold for its people? do you expect it to change or head into a deeper hole of evil? I don't see Iran improving for the good.

Jewry in Arab world is dead. Too bad the Iranian Jews don't take the right steps.

The fact that you think Iranians are arabs shows your ignorance. I will not waste my time anymore on someone who does not distinguish between arabs and Persians.

[physics]

The fact that you think Iranians are arabs shows your ignorance. I will not waste my time anymore on someone who does not distinguish between arabs and Persians.

Pardon me, I know that Persians dislike being labeled Arabs, but I guess I was referring to Muslims, including Arabs & Persians.

Anyway, I just think that Jews have no business living in Iran today. I don't care what anybody says. From a historical perspective, today's Iranian Jews look ridiculous.

[physics]

I was actually informed by another Iranian friend of mine thatthe Iranian Jews that move to Israel are actually encouraged by the Iranian government to move back to Iran without any consequences.

Well, I, Israelis & most westerners would laugh this off. No consequences after visiting the zionist enemy that Iran swears to kill?:rolleyes:

[physics]

The fact that you think Iranians are arabs shows your ignorance. I will not waste my time anymore on someone who does not distinguish between arabs and Persians.

Well I am not going to waste my time on people who think that Persian Jews are Persians. Jews are Jews first. Nationality second. Today's Persian Jews haven't learned from world's Jews mistake of assimilation.

[Toga]

The fact that you think Iranians are arabs shows your ignorance. I will not waste my time anymore on someone who does not distinguish between arabs and Persians.

No, the Persians are not Arabs but when it comes to Jews their attitude is very similar. Please don't forget that the majority of Jews left Iran years ago and only a small and insignificant minority remains.

[physics]

No, the Persians are not Arabs but when it comes to Jews their attitude is very similar. Please don't forget that the majority of Jews left Iran years ago and only a small and insignificant minority remains.

Exactly. The massive Jewish exodus from Iran makes a winning point. There is no need to debate the issue. It's just sad that today's Persian Jews are too blind to see the light.

[Mediocrates]

Thanks. Of course, if another six million of us are killed off, good luck with those Jews who refuse to believe in Hamshem anymore. If there's another holocaust and if I survive, then I will take you up on your suggestion to get in touch with my inner canibal. I will literally eat human flesh.


1 By the rivers of Babylon —
there we sat down and there we wept
when we remembered Zion.
2 On the willows there
we hung up our harps.
3 For there our captors
asked us for songs,
and our tormentors asked for mirth, saying,
"Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"

4 How could we sing the LORD's song
in a foreign land?
5 If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
let my right hand wither!
6 Let my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth,
if I do not remember you,
if I do not set Jerusalem
above my highest joy.

7 Remember, O LORD, against the Edomites
the day of Jerusalem's fall,
how they said, "Tear it down! Tear it down!
Down to its foundations!"
8 O daughter Babylon, you devastator!
Happy shall they be who pay you back
what you have done to us!
9 Happy shall they be who take your little ones
and dash them against the rock!

[redcake]

Well, redcake. Israel as a modern Jewish state living side by side with the Palestinians is a really crazy idea. And yet how many people go on and on trying to figure out how to eventually make peace without Israel being shreaded. I think if you live someplace, then you take part in all the struggles that go there for better or for worse. Those on the outside, but still have a stake in the place have less to say with real authority. They do what they can do from the outside and that isn't much. But they still have a stake. They still dream about this other place. It's still in their hearts. So how do you reconcile wanting to change or improve a place where you don't live and loving a place that doesn't exist anymore?

As much as I think I agree with what you're getting at, I'm not really following how that applies to Jews in Iran. I think the Persians outside of Iran are justified in their criticisms, based on their experiences. If they suffered, it shouldn't be so hard to figure out that Jews of Iran are also being inconvenienced, to say the least.

[rhodescholar]

You wrote that after you wrote this:



To me that sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Are you saying that Iranian Jews that love living in their Jewish communities in Iran, would not be interested to just visit Irsael and then go back to their beloved Jewish communities in Iran?

Are you okay with the fact that Jews can be hanged for visiting Israel?

This is incorrect. What the iranian jews do when they visit family/friends in israel is travel to turkey, and then onto israel. Israeli police are instructed to look at iranian jews' passports, and not stamp them with "israel." From what i understand this solution has been used for decades.

[redcake]

Cyrus - We all know those week long visas aren't the easiest to manuever. Admit it, Iran is a difficult nation even for Islamic Persians, right? What's been going on over the past 25 years that's concerned Jews, huh? Don't mistake their loyalty to their communities, and life on a land they love as an endorsement. When you talk about Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews, it's not that one dimensional, and neither is Iran's appreciation for it's history and people, despite rampant oppression and total disregard for it's population.

I'm sorry, but as long as it's forbidden for a Jewish woman to pick up a fruit in a public market and decide for herself if it's ripe - there's nothing to brag about.

[redcake]

This is incorrect. What the iranian jews do when they visit family/friends in israel is travel to turkey, and then onto israel. Israeli police are instructed to look at iranian jews' passports, and not stamp them with "israel." From what i understand this solution has been used for decades.

What has been a "solution" isn't a solution at all. Policies which are not concrete can change over night. You leave, and you're not certain you can return, or that if you return, you won't be accused of spying and jailed. It's happened in the past, and will likely happen again.

[serdar]

Why isn't there any strong pressure to release the Jews Of Iran? I can't imagine how they could live there. :mad:are you j
ocking dude? they suddenly appeared in Iran and met with Ahmediniejaijeaijeijaeijaijeizad (wtf ever) and supported Iranian Islamic Regime against Zionizm. And supported the idea about Israel's existance...

[physics]

Iran is a mess today. There is no fair justice for it's Jews or even it's own people. Using all sorts of loopholes to get into Israel does not imply freedom and convenience.

If the Jews want to stay there, let them...just don't come later complaining, because I'll say "I told you so."

[Toga]

Exactly. The massive Jewish exodus from Iran makes a winning point. There is no need to debate the issue. It's just sad that today's Persian Jews are too blind to see the light.

They will see the light when it may be too late to see the light. They remind us of our European ancestors who were holding on to their homes, land and other material possessions and excusing their actions through their love of the familiar local customs, language, neighbors, culture and friends. They were staying in an evil land instead of getting out for their own sake and the sake of their descendents. That lack of vision and fear of the new was very costly and it brought them either into the gas chambers or to the communist regime while the risk takers left their possessions and moved to America, Canada, Peru, Argentina or the British protectorate of Palestine to start anew and prosper in the lands that were not hostile to Jews. Unlike the European Jews the remaining Iranian Jews will not end up in the ovens but every day they stay on in Iran is a wasted day. They are procrastinators. There is no future for the Jews of Iran. We all know it. Eventually they will face the outcome of all other Jews in the Middle East who were forced to leave the land of their ancestors with nothing.

[Hebrew Swede]

If you want to talk about contradictions we could talk about you for example.... you call yourself a "Hebrew Swede" while living in the US... (??).

Dude, being a Jewish Swede is not anymore contradictive than being an Israeli Arab. Being Swedish is my nationality, and Jewish my ethnicity.

[Hebrew Swede]

I don't think you understand Zoroastrianism very well. Zoroastrianism is a monothiest religion. It is in fact believed to be the first monothiest religion on earth (some say Judaism, some say Zoroastrianism. That's still debated).

I beg to differ. God can have mood swings, and be sometimes good and sometimes bad, but he cannot be schizophrenic. A dualistic religion can not be monotheism - that's a contradiction in itself. I don't see Christianity as monotheism either.

You are right, Zoroastrianism is a dualistic religion. That does not mean we believe in two Gods, that means that we believe everything is a struggle of good versus evil . Ahura Mazda represnting the good side and Ahreeman represnting the evil side.

Ahura Mazda is God and does not represent good, it's the one of two parts of Ahura Mazda, Spenta Mainyu, that represent good, respectively Angra Mainyu that represent bad. Spenta is 100% evil and Angra is 100% bad. Therefore, these must be two separate beings, hence not monotheism, but dualism.

This is very similar to the Judeo-Christian God and Satan.

Hehe, I'll let you believe that, but Judaism doesn't have a Satan.

Just because Christians believe in God and Satan, does that mean they are not monothiest?

I would argue the opposite.

You should also know that it is widely believed by scholars that Zoroastrian doctrines, those of heaven and hell, the struggle of good versus evil, and a redeeming messiah, have deeply influenced the Jewish and Christian religions.

As far as I know, without to much study about this subject, this is true. But Jews were first with monotheism.

Besides, I was born into a Zoroastrian family. I myself am not religious at all but I believe Zoroastrianism to be a very important part of the true Iranian culture and heritage. So yes, I celebrate the Festival of Fires, the Norooz, Farvardigan and Khordad Sal, not because I am religious but because that's part of my culture and heritage.

You're like me, I'm not religious, but use some of the wisdom of the Torah in my everyday life and occasionally celebrate Jewish holidays.

[Mira]

As much as I think I agree with what you're getting at, I'm not really following how that applies to Jews in Iran. I think the Persians outside of Iran are justified in their criticisms, based on their experiences. If they suffered, it shouldn't be so hard to figure out that Jews of Iran are also being inconvenienced, to say the least.

It's all perspective. Some things would be easier for Persian Jews in Israel or the US and some things would be more difficult. Persian culture is a part of every apsect of their lives, so it stands to reason that being surrounded by a large Persian community would make some things easier. I know that in Los Angeles, the Persian Jews there have developed their own community together with Persian Muslims. They interact with other Jews through some mainstream secular organizations and hebrew day schools, but they have their own synagogues and they celebrate Persian holidays and speak farsi.

[Khazar]

Hi, jus wanted to know are all the Jews of Iran Persian Jews, or are there also Azeri Jews aswell?

Cos on my trips to Azerbaycan, I visited Guba, it has over 30,000 Jewish community and had a lovely atmosphere and the local Turks while overwhelmingly Muslim got on really well with the Jews there.

Its a great place to see what religion should be like, people getting on well together and mixing and living life in relative harmony.

A great continuation of the ways of the Khazar's, a multi-faith, multi-cultural state :)

[physics]

Its a great place to see what religion should be like, people getting on well together and mixing and living life in relative harmony.

A great continuation of the ways of the Khazar's, a multi-faith, multi-cultural state

Well, most people never got along with the Jews, so what you are talking about is obviously an isolated case. By the way, many Jews left Azerbajan.

[serdar]

Hi, jus wanted to know are all the Jews of Iran Persian Jews, or are there also Azeri Jews aswell?

Cos on my trips to Azerbaycan, I visited Guba, it has over 30,000 Jewish community and had a lovely atmosphere and the local Turks while overwhelmingly Muslim got on really well with the Jews there.

Its a great place to see what religion should be like, people getting on well together and mixing and living life in relative harmony.

A great continuation of the ways of the Khazar's, a multi-faith, multi-cultural state :)
Khazar Turks are the Original Jewish-Turkic race witch mass-killed by Hitler. Khazar Turks were exist before Islam and Christianity. You are correct

[Toga]

Hi, jus wanted to know are all the Jews of Iran Persian Jews, or are there also Azeri Jews aswell?

Cos on my trips to Azerbaycan, I visited Guba, it has over 30,000 Jewish community and had a lovely atmosphere and the local Turks while overwhelmingly Muslim got on really well with the Jews there.

Its a great place to see what religion should be like, people getting on well together and mixing and living life in relative harmony.

A great continuation of the ways of the Khazar's, a multi-faith, multi-cultural state :)

Please do not get carried away with your fantasies. The region you are talking about is not exactly the epitome of love and peace for all.

[Khazar]

Toga actually Azerbaycan is doing quite well compared to its immediate South and North wouldn't you say?

Israeli Ambassador lauds treatment of Jews in Azerbaijan
Commercial joint-ventures, cultural exchanges, weekly flights link Azeris and Israelis

Muslim Azerbaijan has a centuries-old history of tolerance and respect for its Jewish minority, according to Eytan Na’eh, Israeli Ambassador to Azerbaijan.


Ambassador Na‘eh says, "The tolerance of a country can be measured by its tolerance for its Jewish community. There is very high tolerance of Jews here, and no anti-Semitism. One could not wish for better treatment of Jews in a Moslem country than exists here in Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has reason to be proud of its relations with its Jews and other minorities, Na’eh says.


Azerbaijan has had a sizeable Jewish community for hundreds of years, as Jews migrated from Iran. These Jews are known in Azerbaijan as the "Mountain Jews" because they live primarily in the foothills of the northern Caucasus Mountains, near the city of Quba. They are believed to be descendants of Jews enslaved in Babylon during the First Exile from Israel in the 6th century BC. The "Mountain Jews" speak a dialect that resembles Farsi, the principal language of Iran, but there is a mixture of other languages as well.


Smaller communities of Ashkenazi and Georgian Jews in Baku complement the Mountain Jews. Ashkenazi Jews were attracted to Baku during the first oil boom in the late 1800s, with such notable Jewish families as the Nobels and the Rothschilds playing important roles in developing Baku’s oil production to a scale that eclipsed Oklahoma’s oil industry during the same period.


Today, each of Azerbaijan’s Jewish communities has its own synagogue in Baku. These temples were built in 1947 during a time of religious tolerance as Stalin sought to rebuild support for his regime among Azeris.


It was these Jewish communities that first drew formal Israeli interest when Azerbaijan became an independent nation in 1991.


"Israel was one of the first countries to recognize independent Azerbaijan," Na’eh says. "We established relations in 1992 and first opened a Jewish emigration agency office in Baku."


That agency found itself with a heavy workload. There had been some emigration of Jews from Azerbaijan, beginning in the 1970s during a period of Soviet liberalization. But for most of Azerbaijan’s Jews, the emigration gates did not fully open until Azerbaijan became independent in 1991.


Independence was followed by war with Armenia and internal political and economic chaos. The Israeli embassy estimates that more than 40,000 Jews emigrated from Azerbaijan during the first years of independence, half the original population of 80,000.


"Today, we estimate that there are about 15,000 Jews remaining in Azerbaijan who are eligible to emigrate to Israel, " Ambassador Na’eh says.


Many of the Azerbaijani Jews who emigrated settled in Haifa, an industrial seaport in northern Israel. There is now enough demand for travel back and forth to justify direct flights weekly between Baku and Tel Aviv.


Israeli relations with Azerbaijan are cordial, but relatively quiet on the official level. "President Aliyev has met with the Israeli prime minister during international organization meetings abroad," Na’eh says. "And we have had some ministerial-level visits here. We enjoy excellent relations with the President’s advisors. The Jewish community is appreciated at all levels."


Azeri Foreign Minister Quliyev has scheduled a visit to Israel in 2002. Azerbaijan will open its embassy there next year.


The Israeli embassy has active cultural, education, assistance and commercial programs, however. "Very few Azerbaijan Jews speak Hebrew," Na’eh comments, "but they are being taught now."


In 2002 the embassy will bring to Baku a cultural exhibition highlighting the life of Mountain Jews who have emigrated to Israel. Israel has also established an agricultural assistance program, funded by the World Bank. This program sends Azerbaijanis to Israeli technical colleges for training tailored to the composition of a certain group.


Israeli businesses have made some inroads in Azerbaijan. One of the joint stock venture companies formed by the Ministry of Communications with Israeli participation is Bakcell, the smaller of Azerbaijan’s two principal cellular telephone companies. There is also some activity in petro-chemicals and construction.


Azerbaijan’s economic potential is very large, Na’eh says. And in future, he expects that Israeli companies will show increased interest in the country’s agriculture, petroleum, chemical, high technology and medicine sectors.

http://www.internationalspecialreports.com/ciscentralasia/01/azerbaijan/israeliambassador.html

[Womble]

Khazar Turks are the Original Jewish-Turkic race witch mass-killed by Hitler.
Come again?

[Toga]

Hi, jus wanted to know are all the Jews of Iran Persian Jews, or are there also Azeri Jews aswell?

Cos on my trips to Azerbaycan, I visited Guba, it has over 30,000 Jewish community and had a lovely atmosphere and the local Turks while overwhelmingly Muslim got on really well with the Jews there.

Its a great place to see what religion should be like, people getting on well together and mixing and living life in relative harmony.

A great continuation of the ways of the Khazar's, a multi-faith, multi-cultural state :)


Khazar, what are you trying to prove by selecting your name?

[Khazar]

We call the Caspian Sea, Khazar Denizi in Turkish it has alot of historical and cultural significance.

Also the Khazar State, is one I'm very interested in learning about and researching Turkic-Judeo relations.

Regards

[Toga]

We call the Caspian Sea, Khazar Denizi in Turkish it has alot of historical and cultural significance.

Also the Khazar State, is one I'm very interested in learning about and researching Turkic-Judeo relations.

Regards

The reason I find your name offensive to Jews is because our wonderful adversaries who present their fantasies as something factual and real are trying to detach the Jews from the Middle Eastern origin and the land with all kinds of falsified claims. A number of their claims are based on the Khazar connection to Judaism

[Khazar]

Toga
The reason I find your name offensive to Jews is because our wonderful adversaries who present their fantasies as something factual and real are trying to detach the Jews from the Middle Eastern origin and the land with all kinds of falsified claims. A number of their claims are based on the Khazar connection to Judaism

Well I apologise if you find it offensive, it wasn't meant to be :o

In my opinion Khazar history is nothing to be ashamed of or distance from and just cos some Illeterate brain-dead haters will use any excuse to bash Jews doesn't mean they should be allowed to get away with their lies.

Jews migrated to the Khazar State due to persecution in other areas, the ruling elite converted to Judaism and it thus became a Jewish State, it doesn't mean Jews arnt from the middle east.

However, ethnic purity doesnt exist, its possible for some Jews from this area to have mixed with other groups isn't it?

Compared to the other states around the Khazar's were quite advanced in the field of tolerance, equal rights and respect wouldn't you say?

Regards

[Mil]

Once again shows how the Arabs are destroying this world of ours. If I were a Muslim I would be praying to Muhammed each and every single day for all that oil to run out TOMORROW!!!!

[tzanchan]

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1006