What binds Ankara and Jerusalem

[MrRight]

What about even Turkish historians supporting the Armenian Genocide, are they also paid by the "powerful" Armenian lobby?

Ragip Zarakolu, Ali Ertem, Taner Akçam and Halil Berktay and recently your beloved novelist Orhan Pamuk, whom you almost threw in jail if it wasn't for outside pressure.

What about all the countries that recognized it, are they all paid by the Armenian lobby too?

Argentina, Armenia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Cyprus, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, Lithuania, The Netherlands, Poland, Russia, Slovakia, Sweden, Switzerland, Uruguay, Vatican City and Venezuela.

39 of the 50 U.S. states including Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin recognize the events of 1915 to 1917 as genocide.

International bodies that recognize the Armenian genocide include the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the European Parliamentary Assembly, and the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities, the International Center for Transitional Justice, based on a report prepared for TARC, the Association of Genocide Scholars, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the World Council of Churches, the Turkish Human Rights Organization, the League for Human Rights [27], the self declared Parliament of Kurdistan in Exile [28], and the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal.

[MrRight]

And this should shut you up for good:

International Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide

Public Petitions

Statement by 126 Holocaust Scholars, Holders of Academic Chairs, and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers

March 7, 2000

View image of the petition appeared in New York Times, June 9, 2000.

126 HOLOCAUST SCHOLARS AFFIRM THE INCONTESTABLE FACT OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND URGE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE IT

At the Thirtieth Anniversary of the Scholar's Conference on the Holocaust and the Churches Convening at St. Joseph University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 3-7, 2000, one hundred twenty-six Holocaust Scholars, holders of Academic Chairs and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers, participants of the Conference, signed a statement affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such. The petitioners, among whom is Nobel Laureate for Peace Elie Wiesel, who was the keynote speaker at the conference, also asked the Western Democracies to urge the Government and Parliament of Turkey to finally come to terms with a dark chapter of Ottoman-Turkish history and to recognize the Armenian Genocide. This would provide an invaluable impetus to the process of the democratization of Turkey.

Below is a partial list of the signatories:



Prof. Yehuda Bauer
Distinguished Professor
Hebrew University
Director, The International Institute of Holocaust Research
Yad Vashem, Jerusalem

Prof. Israel Charny, Director
Institute of the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem
Professor at the Hebrew University,
Editor-in-Chief of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Ward Churchill
Ethnic Studies
The University of Colorado, Boulder

Prof. Stephen Feinstein, Director
Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
University of Minnesota

Prof. Saul Friedman, Director
Holocaust and Jewish Studies
Youngston State University, Ohio

Prof. Edward Gaffney
Valparaiso University Law School

Prof. Zev Garber
Los Angeles Valley College

Prof. Dorota Glowacka
University of King's Collage
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Dr. Irving Greenberg, President
Jewish Life Network

Prof. Herbert Hirsch
Virginia Commonwealth University

Prof. Irving L. Horowitz
Hannah Arendt Distinguished Professor
Rutgers University, NJ

Rabbi Dr. Steve Jacobs
Temple Sinai Shalom
Huntsville, Alabama
Associate Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Steven Katz
Distinguish Professor
Director, Center for Judaic Studies
Boston University




Prof. Richard Libowitz
Temple University

Dr. Marcia Littell
Stockton College
Exec. Director, Scholars' Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Franklin Littell
Emeritus Professor
Temple University

Prof. Hubert G. Locke
Washington University
Co-founder of the Annual Scholar's Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell
Executive Director of the International Scholarly
Conference on the Holocaust, London, England

Prof. Erik Markusen
Southwest State University, MN

Prof. Saul Mendlowitz
Dag Hammerskjold Distinguished Professor
of International Law
Rutgers University

Prof. Jack Needle, Director
Center for Holocaust Studies
Brookdale Community College
Lincroft, NJ

Dr. Philip Rosen, Director
Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaum
Dept. of Philosophy
Cleveland State University

William L. Shulman, President
Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

Prof. Samuel Totten
The University of Arkansas
Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Elie Wiesel
Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
Boston University
Founding Chairman of the United States
Holocaust Memorial Council
Nobel Laureate for Peace

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Histories__N...icpetition.gif

[Cellis]

enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It never ends!

[Khazar]

MrRight
You do not have a powerful Turkish lobby in the U.S.? Are you dreaming Turkish boy? What about the Livingston group, which every year makes sure the Genocide bills do not get accepted and makes sure the State Department does not use the "G" word?

The Turkish Lobby is new, the Armenian Lobby has been wealthy and powerfull for 90 years, it had one way traffic for years in trying to prove its allegations, still it hasn't able to decieve the world and now that the Turks are getting more powerfull we will be able to expose these lies and let historians decide on the matter.

Out of over 200 countries, the so-called Genocide has only been recogised in countries with a strong Armenian Lobby, countries like France are looking to reverse their bill as the Historians are asking to look into the matter.

MrRight
tallarmeniantale, are you kidding, if this is your only source

No I'm not kidding, its a non-Turkish source and if you read it is in regards with what a Jew who lived through the Armenian atrrocities saw with his own eyes.

Now if we look at your sites

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-9-7-21.html

This is an Armenian site, with a bias anti-Turk perpective, its obvious what is written, hate is being emitted its a shame, they bring pollitics into history and have a hard time accepting what really happened.

MrRight
It calls Armenians deadbeats and terrorists, the webmaster who runs the site has been proven to put baseless accusations and mis-information about the subject.

Well have Armenians not had Terrorist Organisations? ie Asala.

If you have proof bring it, its not acceptable to just accuse people, please attack the material not the writer's.

MrRight
Here is the real truth of Bernard Lewis (he is just a historian by the way, is not a
Genocide scholar).

The "real" truth, how can there be different "truths" huh, face it, the Armenian Lobby in France tried to put Lewis on trial as he does not accept such genocide allegations, the court did not find sufficient evidence, abondoned the hearing and he got no charges.

MrRight
Turth about McCarthy:

McCarthy is a professional denier

By Ton Zwaan

Again, McCarthy is a Professor, his books, facts and sources are there to read, prove them wrong if you can.

MrRight
Taner Akçam and Halil Berktay

Taner Akcam was a member of Marxist Terrorist Organisation DHKP/C and a prison convict of Armenian origin.


December 4, 1974

Arrested for unrest at the College of LHG, METU

July 28, 1975

Arrested for obstructing the scheduled exams at the METU, Ankara

November 4, 1975

Participated in an act of violence in Malatya, wich resulted in an injury to a taxi cab driver.

November 20, 1975

Became the executive editor of the periodical "DEV-GENC" (DEV-GENC later on had fractured into DEV-SOL and DEV-YOL. DEV-YOL believed in accomplishing the revolution by peace and education while DEV-SOL believed in terrorism. It's interesting to note that Akcam became part of DEV-SOL.)

March 9, 1976

Imprisoned for 8 years..

March 12, 1977

Escapes from prison into Germany


So was Halil

HALIL BERKTAY: WANTED!

Halil Berktay was such a leftist extremist, he was apparently regarded as a Marxist-Leninist "terrorist" back in those politically volatile 1970s days of Turkey. He appeared in a "WANTED" poster. These posters were not as we have them in the USA, like the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted" sometimes encountered in post offices... the Turkish government evidently distributed them to police stations and newspapers (not the general public) for reasons of crime prevention and/or tips leading to their apprehension. The Turkish headline translates as: "Leaders and militants of the secret organization called The Party Of Revolutionary Laborers and Peasants of Turkey."



Moving on, what do you have to say about Edward Tashji? One of a growing number of Armenians who denounced Armenian claims of genocide as total unprovable lies.

http://www.edwardtashji.org/sworn_af...ard_tashji.htm

[Khazar]

Sworn Statement of Albert J. Amateau on the
allegations that Armenians suffered "genocide" by
the government of the Ottoman Empire


On this eleventh day of October in the year of 1989, there appeared before me, a notary public duly commissioned by the State of California, Albert J. Amateau, known to me. In my presence the said Albert J. Amateau duly took the required oath and affixed his signature to this instrument as well as to every page of the attached Statement of Facts (nine pages), declaring it to be an integral part of his sworn statement.


Albert J. Amateau, residing at #413 Oak Vista Drive, in the village of Oakmont, City of Santa Rosa, County of Sonoma in the State of California, being duly sworn, deposes that he has prepared and hereby submits the attached statement containing (a) facts, (b) extracts from published and/or uttered communications which disprove the allegations of Armenians that their ethnic brethren suffered genocide by the government of the Ottoman Empire in 1915-1923.

These facts are submitted to oppose approval of resolution S.J.212, introduced by the Honorable Robert Dole, Senator and Republican leader of the United States Senate, at the first session of the 101st Congress of the United States. The said resolution seeks to designate April 24, 1990, as the "National Day of Remembrance" of the 75th anniversary of the alleged Armenian genocide of 1915-1923 perpetrated by the government of the Ottoman Empire.

I was born in Milas, Turkey, on April 20, 1889. In 1905 I was a student at the American Internatioal College in Izmir (Smyrna), Turkey. At the time, The Reverend John McGlaglan was President and I attended classes in English conducted by Professors Lawrence and Evan-Jones. These details to make it possible to ascertain the truth of my statements.

There, I became acquainted and friendly with many Turkish born Armenian students, most of whom were my seniors. Because my Grandfather, whose name I bear, had been the French Consul in Izmir, I was mistakenly considered a Christian and a Frenchman. The Armenian students felt that they could freely discuss their membership in Armenian secret societies, i.e., Huntchak and Tashnak Zutiun, and their active participation in secret military exercises to prepare themselves for military duty in their planned subversive war against the Ottoman Empire and nation. In alliance and collaboration with Tsarist Russia.

In 1906 a number of wealthy Armenians in Izmir were assessinated. Mr. Hayik Balgosian and his friend, Mr. Artin Balokian, had been shot by two men in front of the Balgosian mansion in Karatash, an affluent section of Izmir. Days later, the large establishment in the center of the Izmir Bazaar, the SIVRI-SSARIAN, wholesale dry goods warehouse and store, was bombed. Mr. Agop Sivri-Ssarian and a number of his Armenian employees were killed. The perpetrators then sent secret messages, in Armenian printed lettering, threatening a number of Armenian merchants, doctors, lawyers and architects - unless they "contributed" the sums the leaders of the secret societies had assessed, the recepients would suffer the same fate as Balgosian and Sivri-Ssarian.

A majority of these addresses must have "contributed". A few, who evidently were satisfied with their economic, social and political status, did not approve of the plans for subversion and rebellion. They informed the Izmir Police of their suspicion of the identity of the leaders of the secret societies and that the Apostoloc Armenian church on ERMENI MAHALLESI, the main Armenian quarters in Izmir, was possibly the repository of arms and ammunition for the planned rebellion.

I witnessed the police raid on that church; and the truck loads of arms and ammunition which were taken out. Also the arrest of five priests and a number of other Armenians who were in the church at the time of the raid, including a few of my fellow students of the American College. Evidently I had not taken the disclosures of my fellow students seriously enough. Also, I could not understand the Armenian logic for rebellion against a country that had given its ethnic minorities the right to observe and practise their religion, conduct schools for the instruction of their young in their ethnic language and favored many of them with positions of trust. I knew of many Armenians in important positions in the Ottoman Treasury, Foreign Affairs, and as functionaries as consuls,.

I knew of many affluent Armenian doctors, attorneys and even a couple of bankers and architects. It was well known that the Armenians were the merchant princes of the Empire and that the Sultan favored them, especially because, of all the ethnic communities, they were the only ones who spoke the difficult Turkish language as a second language to their own Armenian.

Armenian terrorists in the United States and their duped friends have made it a career to assassinate Turkish consular officilas, supposedly in revenge for the alleged Armenian massacre in 1915. Their prelates, leaders, and even our own California governor, Mr. Deukmejian, have not seen fit to express their disapproval, and by their silence have tacitly approved of the assassinations. The leaders of the secret Armenian societies, Huntchak and Tashnak Zutiun, have continued their nefarious activities by agitating for the introduction of their alleged genocide into the instruction program of the public schools of the State of California.

They have also been able, through their boast of one million Armenian votes, to influence State representatives in passing laws to place their Armenian program for a motion picture into operation.

Now they are trying to have the Congress of the United States pass a resolution to designate April 24, 1990, as the 75th anniversary of their alleged genocide of 1.5 million Armenians by the "Ottoman Turks in 1915". I am amazed that intelligent and politically astute gentlemen, such as Senator Robert Dole, the leader of the Republicans in the Senate, and others, his colleagues, have been importuned to sponsor that resolution without any proof of the veracity of the Armenian claims. There is no doubt in my mind that Senator Dole and his colleagues are honest and honorable men. They have been duped to believe the Armenian allegations as true.

To establish the truth to the satisfaction of the Senators, I am submitting extracts from statements - in fact, avowais - by Armenian leaders in their addresses and/or communications with their adherents. These extracts, and the entire statements, are unimpeachable, and the veracity of my quotes can be easily ascertained. I am also submitting statements of others, but especially of Professor John Dewey, of Columbia University, who investigated the Armenian claims of genocide.

a) EXTRACTS from the November 1914 issue of the OFFICIAL ARMENIAN GAZETTE HUNTCHAK, published in Paris, France, by the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of the ARMENIAN NATION. This was a CALL TO ARMS! "...The entire ARMENIAN NATION will join forces - moral and material, and waving the sword of REVOLUTION, will enter this World conflict.... as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly RUSSIA. They will cooperate with the ALLIES, making full use of all political and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia, Caucasus, Azerbayjan.... heroes who will sacrifice their lives for the great cause of Armenia....Armenians proud to shed their blood for the cause of Armenia...." -Please note the date. It was even before the declaration of war.

b) EXTRACTS from a letter dated JANUARY 27, 1918, and published in the LONDON TIMES on JANUARY 30, 1918, signed by BOGHOS NUBAR, the recognized leader of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, TASHNAK ZUTIUN. This was a complaint that the Allies had refused to invite the ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY COMMITTEE HUNTCHAK to the PEACE CONFERENCE at which the treaty between Turkey and the Allies was signed in Lauzanne, Switzerland.

"...The unspeakable sufferings and the dreadful losses that have befallen the Armenian Nation by reason of their faithfulness to the Allies.... The fact well known only to a few that ever since the beginning of the war, Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on all fronts... Armenians have been belligerents 'de facto' since their indignant refusal to side with the Turks... our volunteers fought in Syria and Palestine (at the time part of the Ottoman Empire) in the decisive victory of General Allenby.... After the breakdown of Russia, the Armenian legions were the only forces to resist the advances of the Turks whom they held in check until the armistice was signed. Thus they helped the British forces in Mesopotamia (at the time also part of the Ottoman Empire) by hindering the German/Turkish forces from sending troops elsewhere."

[Khazar]

----Please note the reference to refusal to side with the Turks, the nation where they were born and of which they were a part. There is no claim of genocide.

c) EXTRACTS from the MANIFESTO, delivered by His Excellency, HOVHANES KATCHAZOUNI, PRIME MINISTER of the ARMENIAN REPUBLIC (established after the First World War) at the CONVENTION of the ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION, in Bucharest, Romania, JULY 1923. This was in the nature of a report. "...In the fall of 1914, when Turkey had not yet entered the war but was already making preparations, Armenian revolutionary bands began to form with great enthusiasm...

The ARMENIAN REVOLUTIONARY FEDERATION had active participation in the formation of these bands and the military action against TURKEY... In the fall of 1914 Armenian volunteer bands fought against TURKEY... This was an inevitable result of the psychology on which the Armenian Nation had been nourished during an entire generation... the winter of 1914 and the spring of 1915 were periods of great activity, greatest enthusiasm and hopes... We had no doubt that the war would end with complete victory for the Allies and Turkey would be defeated and dismembered, and its Armenian population would at least be liberated... We had embraced Russia wholeheartedly without any compun(...)... we believed that the Tsarist government would grant us self government in the Caucasus and in the Armenian vilayets (Turkish provinces where many Armenians resided), liberated from Turkey, as a reward for our loyalty, our efforts and our assistance. Unfortunately Russia did not keep its word..."

One and a half million Armenians are claimed to have been massacred. The avowals of their leaders prior to and after the First World War prove that there had been no massacre - their leaders would have referred to it or claimed it as their calamity, or at least as their contribution to the Allied cause. The allegations of massacre and/or genocide are a later invention to compel the new Turkish Republic to cede to them the five vilayets where they had installed the Armenian Republic, which they later had to give up to the Turkish Republic after a brief war. The Armenians have ever since been trying to obtain either the territory to add to the Russian Armenian Republic, or a large sum of money as the price for stopping the terrorism.

The Armenian people must blame their own leaders and their secret revolutionary societies for the subversive actions which led to their participation in the war with the Allies. They can blame Russia for reneging on its promise, and the Allies for not giving them due credit for their help, but they certainly have no reason to blame the Turkish Republic and/or even the now defunct Ottoman Empire, as their own leaders confessed. Let us now see what Professor John Dewey, of Columbia University, has to say -a broad minded Christian gentleman who went to the Middle East in 1928 to investigate the Armenian claims of genocide. This is extracted from his report published in THE NEW REPUBLIC, vol. 40, November 12, 1928:


"Few Americans who mourn, and justly, the miseries of the Armenians, are aware that till the rise of the nationalistic ambitions, beginning with the 70s, the Armenians were the favored portion of the population of Turkey; or that in the Great War, they treacherously turned Turkish cities over to the Russian invaders; that they have boasted og having raised a hundred and fifty thousand (150,000) men to fight a civil war, that they burned at least one hundred (100) Turkish villages and exterminated their populations. I do not mention these things by way of appraising or extenuating blame, because the story of provocations and reprisals is as futile as it is endless. Finally, one recalls that the Jews took their abode in "fanatic" Turkey when they were expelled from Europe, especially Spain, by "Saintly" Christians, and they have lived in Turkey for some centuries, at least in as much tranquility and liberty as their fellow Muslim Turks, all being exposed alike to the rapacity of their common rulers. To one brought up, as most Armenians have been, in the Gladstonian and foreign missionary traditions, the condition of the Jews of Turkey is almost a mathematical demonstration that religious differences had no influence in the tragedy of Turkey, only as they were combined with the aspirations for political separation, which every nation in the world would have treated as treasonable..."

Professor Dewey had evidently not been told of the rejection by the Jewish Communities of Turkey of the appeals by the European Zionists for political and financial assistance. Insofar as the Jews of Turkey were concerned, the Zionist proposals were "subversive", unless and until the Ottoman government agreed to them. At no time did the Jews of Turkey nurse aspirations for political separation from their Ottoman saviors, who had received them when no other country allowed their either entry or residence. In 1922 in Izmir, Kemal Ataturk, when he captured 100,000 Greek soldiers who had been allowed by the Allied governments to invade and occupy Turkey in Asia, said: "OF ALL THE ETHNIC MILLETS (Communities) THE JEWS ELECTED TO REMAIN LOYAL TO THEIR MOTHERLAND." Now for a brief view of Armenian atrocities against Muslim and Jews - EXTRACTS from a letter dated December 11, 1983, published in the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, as an answer to a letter that had been published in the same journal under the signature of one B. AMARIAN, claiming 1.5 million victims of genocide by the Ottoman Turks:

"..We have first hand information and evidence of Armenian atrocities against our people (Jews) which preceded the so-called massacre of Armenians which you allege in 1915. Members of our family witnessed the murder of 148 members of our family near Erzurum, Turkey, by Armenian neighbors, bent on destroying anything and anybody remotely Jewish and/or Muslim. Armenians should look to their own history and see the havoc they and their ancestors perpetrated upon their neighbors... Armenians were in league with HITLER in the last war, on his promise to grant them self government if, in return, the Armenians would help exterminate Jews... Armenians were also hearty proponents of the anti-semitic acts in league with the Russian Communists. Mr Amarian! Prove that, as you say, a large scale massacre of Armenians occured. I don't need your bias." Signed ELIHU BEN LEVI, Vacaville, California. Attached as the last page of this statement is proof of Armenian collaboration with Hitler.

My friend, Franz Werfel, of Vienna, Austria, a writer, wrote a book entitled THE 40 DAYS AT MUSSA DAGH, a history of the massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Turks. The story was told him by his friend, the Armenian Bishop of Vienna and Werfel never doubted the Bishop's account. He did not investigate what he wrote. Years later, when the true facts about Mussa Dagh were established by the research of neutral investigators - which was never denied by the Armenians - Werfel discovered that he had been duped by his friend, the Bishop, with a concocted story. Werfel confessed to me his shame and remorse for hav

THE TRUTH

Fifty thousand Armenians, residents of villages in and around Erzurum in Turkey surreptiously ascended a mountain called Mussa Dagh (dagh is Turkish for mountain) with arms, ammunition, victuals and water, sufficient to withstand a siege of many days. Before ascending that mountain, they had captured hundreds of Muslim Turks and Jews, their fellow citizens and neighbors, with whom they were supposedly on good terms. They murdered them all in cold blood, for no other reason than they were Muslims and Jews. Thereafter, every night armed Armenian bands came down from that mountain and attacked the rear of the Ottoman and German armies fighting the Russian invaders. This was at the very beginning of the First World War, and part of the secret plans made by the Russians and assigned to the Armenian Revolutionary Federation. ing written that story, in which he had blamed the Ottomans as the aggressors and terrorists.

The Turks were mystified. The Armenian attackers would disappear. Try as they did, at first the Ottomans were unable to trace the disappearing Armenians, but finally they discovered that Mussa Dagh was the hiding place. The Ottomans found the mountain fortress unassailable. They laid siege and waited 40 days before the Armenian rear guard conceded defeat and laid down their arms. But the Ottoman forces found the mountain empty. The large army had disappeared down the other side of the mountain where they had found an exit to the Mediterranean. French and British men-of-war had been signalled and they picked up the main army, transporting the soldiers to Alexandria, Egypt, then under the control of the British. Less than 500, the rear guard who gave themselves up, were zaptured by the Ottomans.

Yet, in telling the story to Werfel to write, the Bishop had claimed 50,000 victims captured and put to death - an invented story, just as is the story of 1.5 million massacred in 1915. If 1.5 million Armenian lost their lives during that war, they died as soldiers, fighting a war of their own choosing against the Ottoman Empire which had treated them decently and benignly. They were the duped victims of the Russians, of the Allies, and of their own Armenian leaders. A few thousand Armenians may have lost their lives during their relocation, caused by their own subversion.

[Khazar]

In making this expose of the truth and disclosing my home address, I know that I risk Armenian harrassment. I have already been subjected to telephone and written threaths! However, the truth must be told. As one born in the Ottoman Empire, from which I emigrated in 1910 and have never returned to live, I must declare:

1) I am not and never have been employed or paid by any government in Turkey.

2) I am not now and never have been financially interested in any business in Turkey.

3) My parents died before the Second World War. My sister and brother-in-law, residents of the Island of Rhodes, were captured and murdered by Hitler's Nazis. I have no relatives or friends in Turkey. It should be evident that I have no motive in taking the risk, other than my conscientious duty to tell the truth out of my love for my native land. I beg the Honorable Senators and other government officials to demand from the Armenians proof of their claims and explanation of the statement of avowals made by their own leaders. Under the circumstances and in view of the above proof, I cannot conceive that the Senators can in good conscience pass that resolution.

It is not enough to say that they do not mean to hurt the Turks or Turkish/American relations. By entertaining that resolution without proof, they are actually going against the interests of Turkey and the safety of the United States and of NATO.


Albert J. Amateau


http://www.sephardicstudies.org/aa3.html


Also read this article.


Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey
A Disputed Genocide

Guenter Lewy

http://www.meforum.org/article/748


Lewy has approached the matter in an objective manner, avoided bias and written a sholorly historical account with facts and sources to back it up.

Prove what he has written wrong if he is a "lier" or what ever else you call anyone who doesn't agree with your view.

Regards

[Khazar]

Here is 69 American Scholors and 136 Turkish scholors who decided there was no Genocide and then were Terrorised for Armenians for their decision.


Rifaat Abou-EI-HaJ
Professor of History

California Stale University

at Long Beach



Sarah Moment Atis
Associate Professor of Turkish

Language & Literature

Univ. of Wisconsin at Madison



Karl Barbir
Associate Professor of History

Siena College (New York)



Ilhan Basgoz
Director of the Turkish Studies

Program at the Department of

Uralic & Altaic Studies

Indiana University



Daniel G. Bates
Professor of Anthropology

Hunter College, City

University of New York



Luke Bates
Professor of Art History

Hunter College, City College

of New York



Gustav Bayerie
Professor of Uralic & Altaic

Studies

Indiana University



Andras G.E. Bodrogligetti
Professor of Turkic & Iranian

Languages

University of California at

Los Angeles



Kathleen BurriIl
Associate Professor of Turkish

Studies

Columbia University



Timothy Childs
Professorial Lecturer

SAIS, Johns Hopkins University



Shafiga Daulet
Associate Professor of Political

Science

University of Connecticut



Roderic Davison
Professor of History

George Washington University

Washington. D.C.



Walter Denny
Professor of Art History &

Near Eastern Studies

University of Massachusetts



Dr. Alan Duben
Anthropologist Researcher

New York City



Ellen Ervin
Research Assistant Professor

of Turkish

New York University



Caesar Farah
Professor of Islamic & Middle

Eastern History

University of Minnesota



Carter Findley
Associate Professor of History

The Ohio State University



Michael Finefrock
Professor of History

College of Charleston



Alan Fisher
Professor of History

Michigan Stale University



Cornell Fischer
Assistant Professor of History
Washington University (Missouri)



Peter Golden
Professor of History

Rutgers University, Newark



Tom Goodrich
Professor of History

Indiana University of Pennsylvania



Andrew Gould
PhD. in Ottoman History

Flagstaff, Arizona



William Griswold
Professor of History

Colorado State University



Tibor Halasi-Kun
Professor Emeritus of Turkish

Studies

Columbia University



William Hickman
Associate Professor of Turkish

University of California, Berkeley



J.C. Hurewitz
Professor of Government Emeritus

Former Director of the Middle

East Institute (1971-1984)

Columbia University



John Hymn
Professor of History

Glenville State College

West Virginia



Halil Inalcik
University Professor of Ottoman

History & Member of The

American Academy of Art

& Sciences

University of Chicago



Ralph Jaeckel

Visiting Assistant Professor of

Turkish

University of California

at Los Angeles



Ronald Jennings
Associate Professor of History

Asian Studies

University of Illinois



James Kelly

Associate Professor of Turkish

University of Utah



Kerim Key
Adjunct Professor

Southeastern University

Washington, D.C.



Metin Kunt
Professor of Ottoman History
New York City



Frederick Latimer
Associate Professor of History,

Retired

University of Utah



Avigdor Levy
Professor of History

Brandeis University


Bernard Lewis
Cleveland E. Dodge Professor

of Near Eastern History

Princeton University



Dr. Heath W. Lowry
Institute of Turkish Studies, Inc.

Washington, D.C.



Justin McCarthy
Associate Professor of History

University of Louisville



Jon Mandaville
Professor of the History of

tire Middle East

Portland State University (Oregon)



Michael Meeker
Professor of Anthropology

University of California

at San Diego



Rhoads Murphey
Assistant Professor of Middle

Eastern Languages & Cultures

and History

Columbia University



Thomas Naff
Professor of History & Director,

Middle East Research Institute

University of Pennsylvania



Pierre Oberling
Professor of History
Hunter College of the City

University of New York





William Ochsenwald
Associate Professor of History

Virginia Polytechnic Institute



Robert Olson
Associate Professor of History

University of Kentucky



William Peachy
Assistant Professor of the Judaic &

Near Eastern Languages &

Literatures

The Ohio State University



Donald Quataert
Associate Professor of History

University of Houston



Howard Reed
Professor of History

University of Connecticut



Dankwart Rustow

Distinguished University

Professor of Political Science

City University Graduate School

New York


Ezel Kural Shaw
Associate Professor of History

California State University,

Northridge



Stanford Shaw
Professor of History

University of California

at Los Angeles



Elaine Smith
PhD. In Turkish History

Retired Foreign Service Officer

Washington, D.C.



Grace M. Smith

Visiting Lecturer In Turkish

University of California

at Berkeley





John Masson Smith, Jr.

Professor of History

University of California

at Berkeley



Dr. Svat Soucek

Turcologist, New york City





Robert Stash
Assistant Director of the Middle

East Center

University of Utah



June Starr

Associate Professor of

Anthropology

SUNY Stoneybrook



James Stewart-Robinson
Professor of Turkish Studies

University of Michigan



Dr. Philip Stoddard
Executive Director Middle

East Institute
Washington, D.C.



Frank Tachau
Professor of Political Science
University of Illinois

at Chicago



Metin Tamkoc
Professor of International Law

& Relations

Texas Tech University



David Thomas
Associate Professor of History

Rhode Island College



Margaret L. Venzke

Assistant Professor of History

Dickinson College (Pennsylvania)



Warren S. Walker
Horn Professor of English &

Director of the Archive of

Turkish Oral Narrative

Texas Tech University



Donald Webster
Professor of Turkish History,

Retired


Walter Welker
Professor of Political Science

Rutgers University



John Woods
Associate Professor of Middle

Eastern History

University of Chicago



Madeline Zilfi
Associate Professor of History

University of Maryland

[MrRight]

Khazar, you know it and I know it that what really matters is the opinion of Genocide and Holocaust scholars and historians, they are the ones who know the subject well and have done their research. Lewis, Lewy are all just historians. And all the Genocide scholars agree that the Armenian Genocide occured, I posted all the articles, go read! Are you saying they are all influenced by the Armenian lobby? Here again read their statements:

http://www.genocidewatch.org/Turkish...nia6-13-05.htm


International Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide

Public Petitions

Statement by 126 Holocaust Scholars, Holders of Academic Chairs, and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers

March 7, 2000

View image of the petition appeared in New York Times, June 9, 2000.

126 HOLOCAUST SCHOLARS AFFIRM THE INCONTESTABLE FACT OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND URGE WESTERN DEMOCRACIES TO OFFICIALLY RECOGNIZE IT

At the Thirtieth Anniversary of the Scholar's Conference on the Holocaust and the Churches Convening at St. Joseph University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 3-7, 2000, one hundred twenty-six Holocaust Scholars, holders of Academic Chairs and Directors of Holocaust Research and Studies Centers, participants of the Conference, signed a statement affirming that the World War I Armenian Genocide is an incontestable historical fact and accordingly urge the governments of Western democracies to likewise recognize it as such. The petitioners, among whom is Nobel Laureate for Peace Elie Wiesel, who was the keynote speaker at the conference, also asked the Western Democracies to urge the Government and Parliament of Turkey to finally come to terms with a dark chapter of Ottoman-Turkish history and to recognize the Armenian Genocide. This would provide an invaluable impetus to the process of the democratization of Turkey.

Below is a partial list of the signatories:



Prof. Yehuda Bauer
Distinguished Professor
Hebrew University
Director, The International Institute of Holocaust Research
Yad Vashem, Jerusalem

Prof. Israel Charny, Director
Institute of the Holocaust and Genocide, Jerusalem
Professor at the Hebrew University,
Editor-in-Chief of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Ward Churchill
Ethnic Studies
The University of Colorado, Boulder

Prof. Stephen Feinstein, Director
Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
University of Minnesota

Prof. Saul Friedman, Director
Holocaust and Jewish Studies
Youngston State University, Ohio

Prof. Edward Gaffney
Valparaiso University Law School

Prof. Zev Garber
Los Angeles Valley College

Prof. Dorota Glowacka
University of King's Collage
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Dr. Irving Greenberg, President
Jewish Life Network

Prof. Herbert Hirsch
Virginia Commonwealth University

Prof. Irving L. Horowitz
Hannah Arendt Distinguished Professor
Rutgers University, NJ

Rabbi Dr. Steve Jacobs
Temple Sinai Shalom
Huntsville, Alabama
Associate Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Steven Katz
Distinguish Professor
Director, Center for Judaic Studies
Boston University




Prof. Richard Libowitz
Temple University

Dr. Marcia Littell
Stockton College
Exec. Director, Scholars' Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Franklin Littell
Emeritus Professor
Temple University

Prof. Hubert G. Locke
Washington University
Co-founder of the Annual Scholar's Conference
On the Holocaust and the Churches

Dr. Elizabeth Maxwell
Executive Director of the International Scholarly
Conference on the Holocaust, London, England

Prof. Erik Markusen
Southwest State University, MN

Prof. Saul Mendlowitz
Dag Hammerskjold Distinguished Professor
of International Law
Rutgers University

Prof. Jack Needle, Director
Center for Holocaust Studies
Brookdale Community College
Lincroft, NJ

Dr. Philip Rosen, Director
Holocaust Education Center of the Delaware Valley

Prof. Alan S, Rosenbaum
Dept. of Philosophy
Cleveland State University

William L. Shulman, President
Association of Holocaust Organizations City University of New York

Prof. Samuel Totten
The University of Arkansas
Assoc. Editor of The Encyclopedia of Genocide

Prof. Elie Wiesel
Andrew W. Mellon Professor in the Humanities
Boston University
Founding Chairman of the United States
Holocaust Memorial Council
Nobel Laureate for Peace

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Histories__N...icpetition.gif

[MrRight]

Those are all non-Armenian Genocide scholars, the authors that you brought have mostly Turkish ancestry, which does not really make the case very compelling. The opinions of the Genocide and Holocaust scholars count the most don't you think? I mean there are lots of historians that take very biased views on the issue of the Armenian Genocide, from both sides, but you can not neglect the opinion of the majority of Genocide scholars in the world.

[Khazar]

MrRight
Khazar, you know it and I know it that what really matters is the opinion of Genocide and Holocaust scholars and historians, they are the ones who know the subject well and have done their research. Lewis, Lewy are all just historians.

It is up to historians to determine and research the historical facts and then scholors can make their judgements.

You cannot make conclusions on matters which have not been thoroughly researched, proven and sourced.

It simply is not acceptable that Armenians because they have lived in the West for longer and are more established can through their weight around and stop any kind of debate or historical insight into the matter.

Why are Armenians refusing to come to Turkey to debate about this? why are they reluctant to let historians decide? what is it that they are frightened that will be discovered.

Time will tell, Turks will have their side heard, you cannot take someone to court and expect to shut up the defendant and not allow him or her to give their account, that simply isnt Justice!

The reality is, once the Armenian allegations are proved false, the real question will arise, is what the Armenians and Russians did in the region Genocide? there is a very strong case for it.

Anyone who is knowledgable in this field knows that the Armenians allegations simply do not add up.

MrRight
Those are all non-Armenian Genocide scholars, the authors that you brought have mostly Turkish ancestry

Incorrect, I purposely used non-Turkish scholors.

MrRight
I mean there are lots of historians that take very biased views on the issue of the Armenian Genocide, from both sides, but you can not neglect the opinion of the majority of Genocide scholars in the world.

Years ago, there wasn't a single scholor who would even listen to anything other then what the Armenians had declared the "truth", Turks were de-famed and slandered by these Lobbies for years and years however, now that Turks are growing in power and more educated they can get their side of events across. Scholor's who take time to examine this realises that there a big holes in the Armenian thesis.

This is why many names have recently started popping up declaring that what happened is not a genocide, this will cary on increasing and increasing.


Here read this by a non-Turkish scholor


Excerpts from the book:A Myth of Terror
An Illustrated Expose by Eric Feigl
Armenian Extremism:Its Causes and Its Historical Context



http://www.ataa.org/ataa/ref/myth/myth.html

[MrRight]

Taner Akcam was a member of Marxist Terrorist Organisation DHKP/C and a prison convict of Armenian origin.

I love it when someone disagrees with your opinions he is automatically a traitor and Armenian lol, just like Turks called Orhan Pamuk a traitor after he agreed the Armenian Genocide occured, do you think the Armenian lobby changed his mind??? Wikipedia does not think Taner is Armenian:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taner_Ak%C3%A7am

The Turkish Lobby is new, the Armenian Lobby has been wealthy and powerfull for 90 years, it had one way traffic for years in trying to prove its allegations, still it hasn't able to decieve the world and now that the Turks are getting more powerfull we will be able to expose these lies and let historians decide on the matter.

Out of over 200 countries, the so-called Genocide has only been recogised in countries with a strong Armenian Lobby, countries like France are looking to reverse their bill as the Historians are asking to look into the matter.

Hey Einstein, Turks are Germany's biggest minority and how many Armenians live in Germany? Roughly 20,000, and what happened, Germany accepted the Genocide last year. What about the The Netherlands, with another large Turkish population?
As for the U.S., the Turkish lobby is not only powerful here, but do not forget that Turkey and U.S. are close allies. Don't forget about the American military bases in Turkey. And still 39 states accepted the Armenian Genocide and soon will the whole country, the bill is pending in the congress.

No I'm not kidding, its a non-Turkish source and if you read it is in regards with what a Jew who lived through the Armenian atrrocities saw with his own eyes.

Now if we look at your sites

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-9-7-21.html

This is an Armenian site, with a bias anti-Turk perpective, its obvious what is written, hate is being emitted its a shame, they bring pollitics into history and have a hard time accepting what really happened.

Are you kidding??? The site has people like Sam Weems as sources! The guy is a convicted felon who had a Turkish wife!

Well have Armenians not had Terrorist Organisations? ie Asala.

I never approved ASALA's actions. What the website says, is that every Armenian is a terrorist and deadbeats and calls Armenia a terrorist state. So by your and the website's logic because of asala's actions, every Armenian is a terrorist? Are you stupid?

[MrRight]

It is up to historians to determine and research the historical facts and then scholors can make their judgements.

You cannot make conclusions on matters which have not been thoroughly researched, proven and sourced.

It simply is not acceptable that Armenians because they have lived in the West for longer and are more established can through their weight around and stop any kind of debate or historical insight into the matter.

Why are Armenians refusing to come to Turkey to debate about this? why are they reluctant to let historians decide? what is it that they are frightened that will be discovered.

Time will tell, Turks will have their side heard, you cannot take someone to court and expect to shut up the defendant and not allow him or her to give their account, that simply isnt Justice!

The reality is, once the Armenian allegations are proved false, the real question will arise, is what the Armenians and Russians did in the region Genocide? there is a very strong case for it.

Anyone who is knowledgable in this field knows that the Armenians allegations simply do not add up.


Here read this by a non-Turkish scholor


Excerpts from the book:A Myth of Terror
An Illustrated Expose by Eric Feigl
Armenian Extremism:Its Causes and Its Historical Context



http://www.ataa.org/ataa/ref/myth/myth.html

Yap all you want, the fact stays that the MAJORITY of Genocide and Holocaust scholars agree that the Armenian Genocide occured. Countries I agree might adpot resolutions due to lobbying efforts, but Genocide scholars stay neutral, especially the Jewish Holocaust historians, which all agree that the AG happened.

And by your logic, if Germany denied the Holocaust to this day and invited Jewish scholars to debate the issue they should accept the invitation? By accepting it they automatically agree that the Holocaust is debatable. That is why no Armenian historian will come to those fruity debates sponsored by your own government.

And please stop copy and pasting sources from ATAA, another powerful Turkish lobbying organization.

[Khazar]

I;m sorry but DHKP/C is a Terrorist Organisation

The Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front, (Turkish: Devrimci Halk Kurtuluş Partisi/Cephesi or DHKP/C) is a militant Marxist-Leninist party in Turkey. It is in the terrorist organization lists in the U.S., the UK and the EU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHKP-C

Its Internationally recognised as such.

Akcam was a member served prison time and escaped from prison to sympathisers in Europe, there's no denial in this, its simply what happened.

I do not call Orhan Pamuk a traitor, he is a fiction novelist, not a historian, as I said, this is a matter for historians, he cannot prove any allegations he gives.

Eric Feigal is not a Turk, his work has simply been published on ATAA, if you want you can read his material from other sites and books.

MrRight
Hey Einstein, Turks are Germany's biggest minority and how many Armenians live in Germany? Roughly 20,000, and what happened, Germany accepted the Genocide last year. What about the The Netherlands, with another large Turkish population?
As for the U.S., the Turkish lobby is not only powerful here, but do not forget that Turkey and U.S. are close allies. Don't forget about the American military bases in Turkey. And still 39 states accepted the Armenian Genocide and soon will the whole country, the bill is pending in the congress.

Turks came as the very impovrished, un-educated people to Germany.

For years we have not had a voice, it isn't just population my friend.

Anyway, the Turks there are now getting more educated and entering business sectors, it won't be long till they rise the social ladder in Germany.

In ten to fifteen years Turks in Europe will be powerfull, before they were not, currently they are strenthening, they had to work from nothing.

America does not accept the so-called genocide, after it is proven by enough historians to not be accepted as a genocide it will be refused just like it was in England.

You see alot of these countries who want to sit on a moral high horse have dark secrets of their own they'd rather keep behind the closet.

The French will remove the Armenian bill in the next comming years, due to the fact that now Algerians are going to put pressure on France to recognise the Genocide in Algeria, the West Africans will also put pressure on France etc etc


British Government Rejects Genocide Recognition
London (PA News)

A bid to get the British Government to recognize as "genocide" the deportation and massacre and slaughter of thousands of Armenians b the Ottoman government of Turkey in 1915, was rejected by ministers in the Lords tonight.

Foreign Office spokesman, Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale, said the British Government had condemned the massacres at the time.

She added, "the present British Government, like its predecessors, in no way dissents from that view, nor do we seek to deny what happened or try to play down the extent of the tragedy.

"But in the absence of unequivocal evidence that the Ottoman administration took a specific decision to eliminate the Armenians under their control at that time, British governments have not recognized those events as indications of genocide.

"Nor do we believe it is the business of governments of today to review events of over 80 years ago, with a view to pronouncing on them. The events of 1915-16 remain a painful issue in relation to two states with which we enjoy excellent relations.

"For our part, it is better to look forward rather than back. We hope Turkey and Armenia will be able to overcome their legacy of bitterness. The right approach is to urge the peoples of the region to look to the future."

Opening the debate, Baroness Cox said: "It is of the utmost importance for Armenia, Turkey and Britain that this genocide be recognized. The taboo which prevents mention of it is a hindrance to the healthy development of Turkey."

But crossbencher Lord Monson said that nothing would achieved by "waving an accusing finger at the Turks."

Another crossbencher, Viscount Waverley, agreed with him, saying: "History is invariably interpreted in a partisan - and therefore unreliable and inconsistent - manner."......

MrRight
I never approved ASALA's actions. What the website says, is that every Armenian is a terrorist

Now your being paranoid.

MrRight
Yap all you want, the fact stays that the MAJORITY of Genocide and Holocaust scholars agree that the Armenian Genocide occured.

Time will tell, the Turkish side is only beginning to be told to the Western audience, already well known scholors are listening and accepting that no genocide occured.

MrRight
And by your logic, if Germany denied the Holocaust to this day and invited Jewish scholars to debate the issue they should accept the invitation? By accepting it they automatically agree that the Holocaust is debatable.

The two are un-comparable and bare absolutely no similarity what so-ever.

1. Did the Jews comit treason against Germany and side with the Brittish or Americans or another power against the Germans.

2. Did the Jews aim to create a Jewish state in Germany and occupy their land.

3. Did the Jews have trained regiments and armies and have a super power financing, arming, supporting and fighting along-side them.

4. Did the Jews declare War, Invade and attack German land.

5. Did the Jews occupy German cities, kill German civillians and burn their cities and massacre their people.

The answer to this is NO

However the Armenians did everything mentioned above.

Read what Armenia's first Prime Minister had to say on the matter



The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnagtzoutiun) has nothing to do any more.
The Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni, First Prime Minister of the Independent Armenian Republic.
Translated from the original by Matthew A. Callender, Edited by John Roy Carlson (Arthur A. Derounian).
Published by the Armenian Information Service Suite 7D, 471 Park Ave. New York 22 - 1955.

Quote:
The war with us was inevitable... We had not done all that was necessary for us to have done to evade war. We ought to have used peaceful language with the Turks...We had no information about the real strength of the Turks and relied on ours. This was the fundamental error. We were not afraid of war because we thought we could win... When the skirmishes had started the Turks proposed that we meet and confer. We did not do so and defied them. Our army was well fed and well armed and [clothed] but it did not fight. The troops were constantly retreating and deserting their positions ; they threw away their arms and dispersed in the villages. Our army was demoralized during the period of internal strife, the inane destruction and the pillage that went [on] without punishment. It was demoralized and tired. The system of roving bands, which was especially encouraged by the Bureau government, was destroying the unity of the military organization... » (pp. 9-10)

In spite of the fact that the Armenians had better material and better support, their armies lost. Although Armenian politicians and writers had, for years, criticized the Ottoman Government for not making military service obligatory for the Armenians, there were no Moslems in the army of the Armenian Republic. (6) And the advancing Turks fought only against the regular soldiers ; they did not carry the battle to the civilian sector.


It is clear to anyone with knowledge of WW1 that, the situation of Jews and Armenians is not even remotely similar, its actually an insult to even claim so, an outright lie.

As the issue has not been determined by Historians and accepted by International Law it is open to be discussed, researched and conferances must be made on the matter.

The Armenians however, do not wish to discuss because of what may come out in such meetings, well they cannot keep running from the realities forever.

[MrRight]

I;m sorry but DHKP/C is a Terrorist Organisation

The Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front, (Turkish: Devrimci Halk Kurtuluş Partisi/Cephesi or DHKP/C) is a militant Marxist-Leninist party in Turkey. It is in the terrorist organization lists in the U.S., the UK and the EU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHKP-C

Its Internationally recognised as such.

Akcam was a member served prison time and escaped from prison to sympathisers in Europe, there's no denial in this, its simply what happened.

I do not call Orhan Pamuk a traitor, he is a fiction novelist, not a historian, as I said, this is a matter for historians, he cannot prove any allegations he gives.

Eric Feigal is not a Turk, his work has simply been published on ATAA, if you want you can read his material from other sites and books.

Hmm, wikipedia does not mention anything about that, it mentions this however:

"In 1976 he was arrested and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment as the editor-in-chief of a political journal".

Aha, arrested for political reasons, just like Hrant Dink and Orhan were arrested. Should I remind you about the penal code 301 that jails people for simply insulting Turkey, so serving jail time in Turkey does not mean anything.

Maybe you do not recall Orhan Pamuk is a traitor, but your whole country does and so does this video that shows people throwing tomatoes at him and yelling "traitor"

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/conten...pamuk_200k.asx

As for Eric Feigal, he just like Sam Weems a fictional character, I searched his name everywhere but could not find him among historians or scholars which makes me think twice about this book or his qualifications as a historian, go ahead do a search on him.

Turks came as the very impovrished, un-educated people to Germany.

For years we have not had a voice, it isn't just population my friend.

Anyway, the Turks there are now getting more educated and entering business sectors, it won't be long till they rise the social ladder in Germany.

In ten to fifteen years Turks in Europe will be powerfull, before they were not, currently they are strenthening, they had to work from nothing.

America does not accept the so-called genocide, after it is proven by enough historians to not be accepted as a genocide it will be refused just like it was in England.

You see alot of these countries who want to sit on a moral high horse have dark secrets of their own they'd rather keep behind the closet.

The French will remove the Armenian bill in the next comming years, due to the fact that now Algerians are going to put pressure on France to recognise the Genocide in Algeria, the West Africans will also put pressure on France etc etc

America does not accept the Genocide only because there are still forces opposing its recognition, but after the Iraq war and how Turkey refused Americans to use its Northern front, the ties degenarated to a point that last year the House Foreign Relations Committee approved borth Genocide resoultions:

http://www.anca.org/press_releases/p...s.php?prid=813

After this my friend, the bill goes to Congress and if Hastert allows a vote, the resolution will get passed 100% because two thirds of the Congress is for the resolution, thats TWO THIRDS! So you are saying all those senators are bought by the Armenian lobby? What about the 39 states out of the 50 that accepted it?

And as for the French law, dream on boy, it will never happen, countries do not pass law so they can take them back. The plea by the Turkish historians in France was just a desperate cry for attention nothing more.

And what historians are you referring to??? I just showed you that the majority of Genocide and Holocaust sholars agree that it happened, their opinions are the ones that count, not the ones of criminals like Weems and people like Bernard Lewis that are clearly funded by Turkey.

Time will tell, the Turkish side is only beginning to be told to the Western audience, already well known scholors are listening and accepting that no genocide occured.

The other way my friend, more and more people, including the ones in Turkey are begining to see the cover-up picture that Turkey painted for the past 90 years. And what scholars are you talking about? The main ones whose opinions do matter agree that the Genocide happned as I showed you above.

The two are un-comparable and bare absolutely no similarity what so-ever.

1. Did the Jews comit treason against Germany and side with the Brittish or Americans or another power against the Germans.

2. Did the Jews aim to create a Jewish state in Germany and occupy their land.

3. Did the Jews have trained regiments and armies and have a super power financing, arming, supporting and fighting along-side them.

4. Did the Jews declare War, Invade and attack German land.

5. Did the Jews occupy German cities, kill German civillians and burn their cities and massacre their people.

The answer to this is NO

However the Armenians did everything mentioned above.

Read what Armenia's first Prime Minister had to say on the matter

Genocide is Genocide no matter under what circumstances and no matter where in the world. What happened to Jews is the same to what happened to Armenians, they were both persecuted and killed because of their ethnic identity, the other details do not matter. What treason are you talking about?
Armenians were always loyal to the Ottoman Empire, we actually supported the Young Turk movement with hopes that the massacres would stop, but what happened instead? More massacres. Armenians served in the Ottoman army and had high positions in the Ottoman Empire, why would we comit treason against the Ottomans?
Jews did not create a Jewish state in Germany because it was not their land. Eastern Anatolia, however was a historic Armenian land, we lived there for 3000 years, way before your barbaric ancestors even arrived there. Greece got their independence and the same way we deserved ours, Turkey saw this a direct threat and started to suppress the Armenian population.
Show me proof that Armenians declared War, what a roughly 2 million impoverished people can do against the powerful Ottoman Army???
Remember Armenians were not allowed to carry guns, so how in the hell we revolved against Turks, with sticks?
Also show me proof where we occupied cities and massacred Turks? The cities which we lived in, Van, Adana, Kars, Mush ect.. were all historic Armenian lands and if you go there and see our churches and buildings you will agree.