Arabs are not the enemy, Islam is the enemy

[SteveMetch]

Arabs are not the enemy. Many Christian Arabs live peaceful lives in the United States. In fact most ethnic Arabs in the United States are Christians fleeing Islam. The president said Islam is Peace. If Islam is so peaceful why can’t Christian missionaries preach in the Saudi Arabia? We aren’t there as many churches in the Middle East as there are mosques in the United States? Why is having a bible in Saudi Arabia punishable by a life time in prison? Why did the president during the Gulf War have to celebrate thanksgiving on ships in the Persian Gulf rather than on Saudi soil at United States bases full of soldiers defending Saudi Arabia? Islam is not peace. The practice of the Islam defined by the ambiguously evil Koran and the explicit Evil Hadith results in Islamism. Islamism shares all the same characteristics of the murderous ideologies of Fascism and Communism. One cannot win a war fighting the wrong thing. This is no more a war on terrorism than the cold war was a war against nuclear ballistic missiles. The alliance against Islamism has already formed. The current members are the United States of America, Israel, Russia & India. Together hopefully in a cold war like fashion we can grind Islamism into to ground. Our best weapons in order are democracy, the bible and capitalism. These ideas which germinated and developed in the west are a contradictory to Islamism. This is why to this day no Islamic country has established any of these concepts in practice. People who truly practice the Islam of the Koran and Hadith know this. That is why they are so threatened by the west. The west represents an end to Islam, a core component of the Middle East culture and history and self identity.

No peace is possible either in Israel, The United States, India, Russia or the world without confronting the harsh realities of this cultural schism in mankind. Any peace deal, war, and or social solution which do not acknowledge this fact will fail. Culture clash are an inevitable part of globalization.

[NoLiMiT-SoulJah]

First of all - let us see what you refer to when discussing the religion of Islam...

You refer to the actions of Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries.. and use their policies to judge Islam. Let me first say that, there is not a single country or state in the world, that actually declares itself to be an Islamic State! All Arab states and Muslim countries, are merely Muslim populations living under the rule of either dictators such as Musharraf or Saddam Husssein, or secular regimes such as Hosni Mubarak and Islam Karimov!

The actions and policies of such countries cannot be used to judge Islam, due to the very basic point that they do not use Islam as a reference for their actions. Had they done so, you would not have had the opportunity to attack and attempt to discredit Islam and its teachings.

Always remember

"Always Judge a religion by its Scripture - Never by its people!"

Therefore, if you wish to condemn anyone or any country, please refrain from using irrelevant sources. Islam is not being implemented anywhere throughout the world as a complete system, and it is for this reason, that the public viewpoint of Islam has been severely distorted. I honestly, believe, that through discussion and objective thinking.... one will definitely agree to the teachings of Islam.

If you wish to criticise Islam, please refer to the text in the Quran and hadith, and please forward your queries....

Thank You.

[ibrodsky]

There is a difference between Islam and Islamism.

Islam is a religion subject to interpretation. It provides guidance to individuals on how to live, and how to cope with life's problems.

Islamism is a political ideology based on a literal interpretation of a religion conceived in the 7th century. Its goal is conquest and world domination.

If Muslims were to modernize Islam as Christianity and Judaism have been modernized, then there would not be a conflict between Western civilization and Islam. Thus, Islam is potentially a religion of peace.

Though I would agree that since Islam as understod by the vast majority of Muslims has not been modernized that the problem rests, in part, with Islam itself. But this is a solvable problem. Unfortunately, most of the Muslim world is backwards; Turkey is an example of what Islam could be if brought into the 21st century.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by NoLiMiT-SoulJah
First of all - let us see what you refer to when discussing the religion of Islam...

You refer to the actions of Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries.. and use their policies to judge Islam. Let me first say that, there is not a single country or state in the world, that actually declares itself to be an Islamic State! All Arab states and Muslim countries, are merely Muslim populations living under the rule of either dictators such as Musharraf or Saddam Husssein, or secular regimes such as Hosni Mubarak and Islam Karimov!

The actions and policies of such countries cannot be used to judge Islam, due to the very basic point that they do not use Islam as a reference for their actions. Had they done so, you would not have had the opportunity to attack and attempt to discredit Islam and its teachings.

Always remember

"Always Judge a religion by its Scripture - Never by its people!"

Not quite true. Iran most definitely calls itself an "Islamic state." The Taliban also called their brutal and oppressive theocratic gov't an "Islamic state."

The rejection of separation of church and state is not the solution to Islam's problems, but more accurately part of the problem.

How people interpret a religion, and the actions that follow, are what defines a religion.

What you need to do is show us Muslims who accept democracy, who accept tolerance, who reject terrorism, and (the key) who put the truth above all else -- even religious dogma.

This is the problem with Islam. It has not had a Maimonides or Aquinas to persuade followers that religion must serve facts and reason. Because when facts and reason are made to serve religion, then any arbitrary belief -- or prejudice -- can be justified.

Western civilization is not merely different. It is based on truth, justice, tolerance, and liberty. These are universal human values. Good Muslims must embrace these values or they will ultimately find themselves on a collision course with the rest of civilization.

[Mediocrates]

Islam is not being implemented anywhere throughout the world as a complete system,


How or why does one do that? I wasn't aware there was an implementation of Islam or any religion unless you'r talking about the implementation of statecraft according to Islam. Is that what you mean?

And when it is complete is it more or less of what it is today? That is, is it more theocratic or less theocratic?

[civax]

I think that Islam (or muslims) just need to evolve, and that's a process. Christianity had it middle ages as well, with crusades to every imaginable place with a plain-out target to 'liberate' holy places from infidels and to force christian rule everywhere possible.

Jews didn't had such a thing since they were exiled at a reletivly early stage, and while in europe the jewish diaspora shared the progress with the local nations.

Maybe religions just need to evolve and Islam just didn't so far.
Then again, Muslims had thier Golden age, with rule in much of the world and scientific advancement (after all, they did invent the concept of zero...)

mm... I'm turning this into a philosophical issue, I better stop here...

[cerulean]

Originally posted by civax
the world and scientific advancement (after all, they did invent the concept of zero...)

That was the Hindus who invented zero. Also, what we call Arabic numerals are actually Hindu numerals, but brought to our attention by Arab scholars.

[L@mplighterM]

Any country that has Islamic Laws should be considered an Islamic State.

[Mediocrates]

Why categorize it according to a taxonomy. These states are dangerous in varying degrees to Israel and/or American or American Interests world wide. And while they may not pursue a public policy of aggression they may pursue a secret one and/or some aspects of the government like the security services are actively performing activities that either are or will construed to be hostile acts against those interests. Some are Islamic, some are not, some are religious, some are not, some are arab some are not:

Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Somalia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq.

This list is incomplete fill it in yourself.

How you rank them is your business. Moreover there are lists of known terrorist organizations and affiliations that carry out the same functions as these states extranationally. Some of them cooperate with and receive support from these states.

They don't really share anything except GOALS. Those goals include, killing, mayhem, elimination of Israel, elimination of US power in the Mid East, elimination of US influence world wide, killing of civilians, killing of non Muslims, Arabs or other 'others' as well as Arabs, Muslims, Persians and members of other sympathetic groups as required, hegemony of some sects of Islam and/or cultural hegemony based on Islam or middle eastern values, religion or religious law, elimination of neighbors who do not share those goals and values.

Moreover they frequenly wage low level wars on each other as it suits their purpose.

[Moon]

NoLiMiT-SoulJah: There are some threads in the Religion/Culture forum which you may want to read and give us explanations by replying. Threads like Muslim Beliefs - The Truth Part 1 and Part 2

[Mediocrates]

It think its just as silly to blame somethings on religion as it is to defend somethings on religion. It matters little whether the mullah stirs up a crowd to charge down the street and smash windows or whether the preacher whips up a gay bashing frenzy or the Hindus in town kill all the muslims burn down a commuter train and tear up the mosque with their bare hands. You want to hide behind a book or a man or woman or a demagogue who told you your God(s) said it was alright? Then you're a feebleminded weakling and a coward and you need to stay in the crib with the rest of the babies who can't form an unassisted thought. And anyone who hits back hard at people like that deserve a medal.

[SteveMetch]

The president said Islam is Peace. If Islam is so peaceful why can’t Christian missionaries preach in the Saudi Arabia? We aren’t there as many churches in the Middle East as there are mosques in the United States? Why is having a bible in Saudi Arabia punishable by a life time in prison? Why did the president during the Gulf War have to celebrate thanksgiving on ships in the Persian Gulf rather than on Saudi soil at United States bases full of soldiers defending Saudi Arabia?

[Danisl]

you are right the enemy isnt arabs, but the enemy is certenly not islamic either its when this two combined that the real treah is created!

[Adversary2Arabs]

Mmmmmno. I'm going to have to say Arabs are the enemy. A few hundred years ago, Christians were the enemy and Arabs were friendly(more or less on both ends), but now it has reverted.

[SteveMetch]

90% of who you are is dictated by the environment you were raised in not your genes. As such one can not ascribe a particular set of behaviors to an ethnic group like Arab.

What defines your belief systems was programmed beginning at birth. One critical belief system that all people have is called religion or lack thereof. All religions contain foundational assumptions that can not be proven or disproven. From these base assumptions religions weave a web of logic that helps explain and organize more complex social behaviors and belief systems. The concepts of democracy and capitalism are simple more compatible with Judeo/Christian belief system than Islam. As such Muslims cannot adopt democracy and capitalism and still remain Muslims.