Home | Does anyone here know which Senior Ranking Israeli Officials support recognition of the Armenian Genocide?
I am not trying to create a Turkey vs Armenia, or Greece vs Turkey thread, it is an honest question coming from a Greek who's only contact with Hebrew has been overhearing synagogue prayers as I walked by the Synagogue a few times, who would like to know which Israeli Officials support morality over real politic appeasement.
Israeli politicians often say that the Armenian Issue is up to the historians, not politicians.
Former Head of the Meretz Party Yossi Sarid was very active and outspoken suppoter for recognition of the armenian genocide.
ain't tru? french historians did same..Originally Posted by physics
Let's be clear. I believe Turkey admits that many Armenian lives were lost, but don't agree on Genocide term...Officially, Israel & even U.S. have similar attitude?
But Arabs not only deny the genocide term, but also deny the loss of lives in Holocaust.
i heard something like there is no any McDonald's in Armenia. is it correct? just wanted to ask without any mini-battle
If there's no McDonald's in Armenia that means either economically it's not profitable for McDo. or the Armenian fast food business has covered the market and there’s no need for a McDo. Which comes back to the profitability issue.
Why do you ask that question Serdar?
For the initial question about the Israeli politicians' regard towards the issue of the genocide, one can easily say that this is an overwhelmingly a political issue. Israel and Turkey are natural allies with the US backing both against everybody else in the region. But I think every living Jew understands what the Armenians have gone through and what they are going through now, at best: complete denial, and at worst: Armenians deserved what they got!
A few years ago I heard a lecture by Yair Auron, I'm sure you all know who he is, he said that Jews are ashamed to hear their politicians play Turkey's fiddle and openly back Ankara. It was right after Shimon Peres had said that the Armenian case is not a genocide but a tragedy. He recounted how Peres personally contacted major Jewish organizations to prepare the ground work for extensive lobbying against the Armenian genocide recognition.
yeah, equaling the Armenian case down to the level of the sinking of the Titanic, a tragedy!
Auron said that without US recognition first, it will be very difficult for Israel to recognize the Armenian genocide. Which begs the question: Does Israel really want to recognize the Armenian Genocide?
The saddest thing though is the almost entire influential American Jewish organization working on behalf of Turkey, battling its dirty war by proxy. I hope the Jews will get a good return on this sell-out of an investment. Without this “insider†lobbying in Washington, the Armenian genocide would have been recognized by now. But regardless
of any pressures from anywhere truth always triumphs. We just have to be patient. The
funny thing about politics is that it is always transient, and historic realities have a way of surfacing when the time is right.
I hear there’s a movie in Turkey these days with "great" depiction of what a Jews is. "Valley of the Wolves". But that's just a movie, right?
see, no mini battle , so far
you want this topic to be locked and be banned? it's ok...
to the mods, is the topic and this dumbest dumb's post related genocide????
knar
I think that Theodikritis question was just what important Israeli Politicians deny the Armenian Genocide, and who affirms it, which I will answer best I can. However you are wrong about the Israel Lobby being what stopped American recognition of the Armenian Genocide. What did that was America's best interest, which is not antagonizing Turkey. The Jewish Lobby just happened to be a convenient scapegoat.
Theodikritis
Yossi Sarid and Yossi Beilin both recognize the Armenian Genocide publicly, which is balanced out by Shimon Peres openly denying it, and Silvan Shalom being suspected of helping Denialists, although he never publicly stated that it never happened.
As far as high ranking goes only a few high ranking Israelis have anything at all to say on the Armenian Genocide, Ariel Sharon avoided the topic alltogether, Olmert also avoids it as does Tzipi Livni, Amir Peretz, Bibi Netanyahu and Shaul Mofaz.
If you want to go back to Israel's founding David Ben Gurion recognized the Armenian Genocide.
Cato,
I will have to agree with you that it was American interests that prevented, and still prevents the recognition of the Gonocide in the US Congress. I guess Turks are counting on Jewish groups for an extra measure of insurence.
I was merely repeating what Yair Auron said publicly about the involvement of American Jewish organizations, especially B'nai B'rith and the AJC. This fact coupled with Turkish Daily News reports that Prime Minister Erdogan had special meetings with the representatives of Jewish groups last time he was in New York just adds fuel to the fire, he was not there to talk about tourism.
Your second point is about Yossi Sarid's and Beilin's recognition balancing out with that of Shimon Peres's negation. It should be noted that when Yossi Sarid participated in Jerusalem Armenians' commemoration of the Genocide, he publicly recognized the fact, but as Education Minister his words carried a lot of weight. But soon after the Israeli government forced him to retract the recognition and had to come out and say that he was only expressing his personal opinion and that it was not the government's position.
Whereas Shimon Peres was the Foreign Minister when he declared that there was no such thing as Armenian Genocide.
Personal opinions and government positions do not balance each other out. Sorry!
Interesting about Ben Gurion, what literature is there about his reference to the Armenian Genocide? Since he was a member of the Young Turk Party it would be interesting to see what he had to say about this matter.
thanks
Well, Israeli Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger officially aknowledged it during his trip to Armenia. Also, Knesset Member Yuri Shtern said, "“I personally recognize that historical fact. Thus, Turkey will soon recognize the Armenian Genocide – one must not deny something that is his history", during his trip to Armenia.
I also know that almost all Israeli Genocide and Holocaust scholars affirm the genocide, including Israel Charny, who is the president of the International Association of Genocide Scholars
http://www.genocidewatch.org/Turkish...nia6-13-05.htm
ISRAELI MINISTER AFFIRMS ARMENIAN GENOCIDE
Washington, DC -- Israeli Minister of Education Yossi Sarid marked the 85th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide Monday, pointedly drawing attention to the significance of his official presence at the memorial gathering in Jerusalem.
In a powerfully-worded statement released in Washington, DC by the Armenian National Institute, the Minister said, "For many years, too many years, you were alone on your Memorial Day. I am aware of the special significance of my presence here today, along with other Israelis. Today perhaps for the first time, you are less alone." He stated also: "I am here, with you, as a human being, as a Jew, as an Israeli, and as Education Minister of the State of Israel."
The Minister also noted that it was a Jewish ambassador of America to Turkey, Henry Morgenthau III who in 1915 was among the first and most determined in telling the world about the massacres, and ultimately, genocide then taking place in Armenia.
"The Minister's statement in Jerusalem on Memorial Day is deeply moving, and at the same time, most encouraging to Armenians seeking worldwide affirmation of the Armenian Genocide," said Robert A. Kaloosdian, Chairman of the Armenian National Institute (ANI) Board of Governors. "Last April, an ANI delegation traveled to Armenia with the grandson and great-grandsons of Ambassador Morgenthau and they were widely honored there. We are pleased that the Israeli administration also remembers Ambassador Morgenthau and publicly applauds those, like him, who speak out against genocide, this crime against all humanity."
The Minister of Education concluded his statement with a commitment to ensure that the Armenian Genocide be included in the Israeli secondary school history curriculum. Its inclusion has previously been blocked by the foreign ministry, which fears possible repercussions on Israel's relations with Turkey. The current Turkish government continues to deny the Armenian Genocide of 1915.
The Armenian National Institute is dedicated to the study, research, and affirmation of the Armenian Genocide.
* Attachment: Speech of the Minister of Education Yossi Sarid, Jerusalem, Israel, dated April 24, 2000. (See below)
(For more information or to arrange interviews with the grandson of Ambassador Morgenthau, Henry Morgenthau IV, or Dr. Rouben Adalian, Director of the Armenian National Institute, please call 202/ 383-9009.)
Speech of Mr. Yossi Sarid, Minister of Education of Israel, at the Armenian memorial gathering, morning of April 24, 2000.
I join you, members of the Armenian community, on your Memorial Day, as you mark the 85th anniversary of your genocide. I am here, with you, as a human being, as a Jew, as an Israeli, and as Education Minister of the State of Israel.
Every year, Armenians gather in Israel and all over the world to remember and to remind the world of the terrible disaster, that befell your people at the beginning of the last century.
For many years, too many years, you were alone on your Memorial Day. I'm aware of the special significance of my presence here today along with other Israelis. Today perhaps for the first time you are less alone.
The Armenian Memorial Day should be a day of reflection and introspection for all of us, a day of soul-searching. On this day, we as Jews, victims of the Shoah should examine our relationship to the pain of others.
The massacre, which was carried out by the Turks against the Armenians in 1915 and 1916, was one of the most horrible acts to occur in modern times.
The Jewish ambassador of America to Turkey in those days, Henry Morgenthau, described the massacre as "The greatest crime in modern history." Morgenthau did not predict what was in store later in the 20th century for the Jews, the Shoah, the most terrible of all is still in front of our eyes.
The person who was most shocked and shocked many people was the Prague-born Jewish author, Franz Werfel, with his masterpiece The Forty Days of Musa Dagh. The idea for writing the book was born in March 1929, when Werfel visited Damascus on his way to Palestine. He wrote: "The pitiful scene of the starved and mutilated children of the Armenian refugees gave me the last push to redeem the cruel fate of the Armenian people from the abyss of oblivion."
The book that appeared in German in 1933 shocked millions of people. Adolf Hitler was then in power. The Forty Days of Musa Dagh was thrown into the flames along with other forbidden books. The book was translated into Hebrew in 1934, and influenced many young people in Eretz Israel including me.
For me and for many youngsters my generation in Israel, The Forty Days of Musa Dagh had a formative effect on our personality and our world outlook.
Today in Israel very few youngsters have heard about Musa Dagh, very few know about the Armenian Genocide. I know how important the position of the Jews, and especially the attitude of the State of Israel to your genocide, are for Armenians in the world. As Minister of Education of the State of Israel, I will do whatever is in my capacity in order that this monumental work The Forty Days of Musa Dagh is once more well known to our children. I will do everything in order that Israeli children learn and know about the Armenian Genocide. Genocide is a crime against humanity and there is nothing more horrible and odious than Genocide. One of the objectives of our education - our main objective - is to instill sensitivity to the harm to the innocent based on nationality alone. We, Jews, as principal victims of murderous hatred are doubly obligated to be sensitive, to identify with other victims.
We have to evoke among the young generation natural and deep indignation against manifestations of genocide in the past, in the present and in future. Genocide is the root of all evil and we have to make supreme political and educational efforts to uproot and extirpate it.
Whoever stands indifferent in front of it, or ignores it, whoever makes calculations, whoever is silent always helps the perpetrator of the crime and not the murdered.
In 1918, Shmuel Talkowsky, the secretary of Chaim Weizmann wrote with the approval of Weitzmann, an important article entitled "The Armenian Question from a Zionist Standpoint."
Among other things, he said. "We, Zionists, have deep and candid sympathy for the fate of the Armenian people. We do this as human beings, as Jews and as Zionists. As human beings our motto is: I am a human being. Whatever affects another human being affects me."
"As Jews, as an ancient exiled people we suffered in all parts of the world. I dare say, they made us experts of martyrdom. Our humanitarian sentiments are so sharpened that nobody matches us. The suffering of any nation no matter how foreign to us or how far from us, affects deeply the chords of our souls, and created between us and the suffering nation a profound sympathy which we can call the "brotherhood of affliction." Among the nations who suffer in our neighborhood there is no nation whose martyrdom is more similar than the Armenian people. As Zionists we have several reasons to sympathize with the Armenian Question. As Zionism by its essence is nothing but the Jewish expression of the demand for national justice, it is natural and logical, that the struggle of a nation for emancipation arouses in us a profound interest. We are convinced that in that region of the globe--the Middle East -- the birthplace of our nation -- Eretz Israel, is only a small part of it, will secure peace and prosperity when the well-defined national aspirations will be fulfilled (to the maximum extent possible.) In our view, a free and prosperous Armenia, free and prosperous Arab land and free and prosperous Eretz Israel are the three pillars on which will be built peace and calm in the Middle East."
knar
I agree with what you said, recognize the Genocide, I only disagreed with saying that the Jewish Lobby is what prevents American Recognition. Turkey is a powerful enemy of many of America's enemies, during the Cold War it could be relied on to continue it's historical enmity towards Russia, and it's relations with the Arabs and Iran was awful untill the election of Erdogan who managed to reverse diplomatic trends and make relations with Turkey's Nieghbours extremely warm, which is why I always say not to underestimate that man, but that is off topic.
I think you will agree that History Proffessor Yair Auron is a good source on this so here it goes on Ben Gurion.
http://israelvisit.co.il/cgi-bin/fri...=May-16-04!XXX
Auron argues that Ben Gurion knew of the murder the Turks were capable of. Auron writes, "whatever Ben Gurion's strategy may have been, he wrote privately to his father in 1919 that `Jamal Pasha [then Turkish military ruler in Palestine] planned from the outset to destroy the entire Hebrew settlement in Eretz Yisrael, exactly as they did the Armenians in Armenia.'"
He was not the only founder of Israel to have recognized the Armenian Genocide, if you read the rest of Yair Auron's summarized account it goes on.
"Interestingly, it was Mordecai Ben-Hillel HaCohen, a Jewish journalist in the Yishuv and the uncle of Yitzhak Rabin, who became the first publicist to report the chain of events affecting the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire as early as 1916."
I agree with you that an individual opinion doesn't balance out a government opinion, but you forgot about Yossi Beilin, who thanks to Sarid's higher profile escaped government pressure to change his original statement.
Also, here is a great article by Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...ubContrassID=0
We have a similar one called Queen Burger lol, the food is terrible there
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