Hitler on Judaism, Christianity and Islam

[Reffo]

Leon, nobody is saying that Jewish life under Muslim rule was always a bed of roses. But, you've got to compare life for Jews under other rule at the same time, not under Muslim rule today...... And the reason, that; as I think you would admit, governments have highly politicized hatred of Jews in the past few decades.

You mean like compare the suffering and pain that one might get from blinding one eye as against blinding both eyes?

The bottom line is that Jews suffered historically when they were dependent on the "good will" of both Muslims and non Muslims and that's why Jews have the right to self determination and independence. Unfortunately that's the fact that many Muslims don't want to recognise today. Not because they prefer justice but because they side with the Arabs for parochial reasons.

[andak01]

Finally, a statement that I agree with 100%. I read and reread your message Reffo. I have to agree. The only thing I can't agree on is that Islam is the cause of any of this behavior. Had I been an Indian at the time of the cavalry, I probably wouldn't have bothered to distinguish how much of the genocide was caused by religion and what the teachings of peaceful Jesus really were, but in this case, knowing that there can be another interpretation of Islam can be a useful thing. In fact, it is a weapon against extremism for both of us.

The terrorists who go under the banner of protecting Islam must be uncovered for how much they have endangered all of us and destabilized the earth.

[Reffo]

andak

I don't know enough about Islam so I'm certainly not in a position to either agree or disagree with you. But I will say this (again): Unfortunately, many of those who believe in Islam are not looking at the real issues when it comes to the Arab Israeli conflict. Instead, they automatically support the Arabs (fellow Muslims) rather than look at what is just or unjust.

[Leon]

Leon, nobody is saying that Jewish life under Muslim rule was always a bed of roses. But, you've got to compare life for Jews under other rule at the same time, not under Muslim rule today. And the reason, that; as I think you would admit, governments have highly politicized hatred of Jews in the past few decades.

I wasn't talking about "life under muslims today." I posted links which documented the past.

I believe the previous poster said something about Spain - one must ask after centuries of Islam rule in spain, how many jews were send to concentration camps?

Ok. Here is an extract from the life of Maimonides - Maimonides's full name was Moses ben Maimon; in Hebrew he is known by the acronym of Rabbi Moses ben Maimon, Rambam. He was born in Spain shortly before the fanatical Muslim Almohades came to power there. To avoid persecution by the Muslim sect — which was wont to offer Jews and Christians the choice of conversion to Islam or death — Maimonides fled with his family, first to Morocco, later to Israel, and finally to Egypt.

Incidentally this occurred around 300 years before the inquisition where catholics applied the same standards of converting so called non-believers to their faith.

Masada was what, Jews heroically committing suicide against Muslims? No, it was Romans who oppressed the Jews.

This happened 600 years before Islam came into existance.

And the holocaust was what? Muslims? No.

There was a strong Muslim connection to the holocaust - most notable of which involved the mufti of Jerusalem. And if Rommel had won at El alamein, nothing would have stopped the Nazis and the Arabs from consolidating their alliance fully and collaborating in the mass murder of Middle Eastern Jews. As I mentioned there were already concentration camps in Tunisia and Libya.

And the massacres of the Crusades,

The following happened during the crusader period -

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results. On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in "an offensive manner." The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.25

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by the Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830; and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.26

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

Its also worth noting that the worst single massacer that befell the Jews before the Holocaust (the massacer led by Bogdan Chelminicki) was one which concerned an alliance between Ukrainian cossacks and Tartar muslims in the 17th century - who later sold the surviving captive Jews from Poland, Russia and the Ukraine in the slave markets of the Middle East.

and Stalin's pograms?

Fortunatley Stalin didn't have a chance in impelemting his anti-Jewish pogroms. A day or two before the pogroms and planned massacres were to occur, he dropped dead. And he didn't just die on any day - he died on Purim. Which kind of leads us back to my previous post on Haman, the Nazis and Hashanah Rabbah. You see, rather than the White House, successful Jewish lobbying only exists in the Heavens. And that's what most people don't seem to understand.

To this day in America, anti-Jewish hate crime leads all other hate crime. Is that Muslims? Was it Muslims that forced the Jews to wear dunce caps?

In the ninth century, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.24http://www.jewishworldreview.com/040...inter_friendly

In fact, in addition to the Muslims, the following forced Jews to wear distinctive cloths.

Pope Innocent III
Archbishop of Canterbury Stephen Langton orders
James I
St. Louis IX of France
Edward I
Henry II of Castile
the Avignon Pope Benedict XIII
Emperor Sigismund King Sigismund II of Lithuania

You seem to miss the point. I simply tried to challange the myth that Muslims were tolerant or even more tolerant and civilised toward Jews than chrisitians. Both were as bad as each other. At times it was better for Jews to live in certain muslim countries and at other times in certain Christian countries. It all varied and no-one was perfect.

[Crimea]

I can't even imagine how come a Cristian person could ever believe such words. The first book I ever read was The Bible for Children - it had a lot of images and until I grew up and learned that there are a lot of religions, I didn't even made a difference between mine and the others - for me it was the same God. I always looked at Israel and the Jews as the chosen people, and I belief that without them we would have never had the second chance Jesus gave us.