Should peres and arafat meet?

[watcher]

I know I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record but this subject merits its own topic:

Meeting with arafat was declined Sunday, Israel is frowned upon for not continuing efforts for peace, nevermind what arafat is plotting and doing...

When we see children as well as adults dancing and celebrating as we saw in palestine, lebanon... One has to wonder of such hatred these people are taught. For the children of course the parents show them, for the adults it can be said this has been learned for many years... generations perhaps...
It is of course not right to attribute such actions to the people as a whole but that is usually counted for the fact that only a few were caught in the act... What the world saw is a large gathering in complete joy at such a vile act towards humanity. To this it is reasonable to conclude that the majority is geared for such heinious thoughts, and ripe to attempt any form of terrorist action as it is shown by the history many are trained to perform,

but still that cannot be counted towards the people as a whole...

With such a majority though can we reasonably expect any form of treaty brokered last for any amount of time? How long must Israel be encouraged to make peace with terrorists? How many lives must be lost? Yes it is true the world sets a seperate standard for Israel apart from itself...

Would the U.S consider giving the terrorists the White House, a huge chunk of land, and offer that these terrorists be considered a nation among us just for the fact that they bombed the WTC and Pentagon?

Perhaps... We'll wait and see... then Israel should make a decision whether or not to return to negotiations with arafat bin laden.

[watcher]

Sorry still so upset about the bombing and events I forgot I made a post before under a different title.

[Negev]

Originally posted by watcher
arafat bin laden.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[takeo]

lol
Arafat has ordered calm and a cease-fire respected since 10 days. he has never ordered any attacks on innocent civilians, as did Sharon (and hamas). So the question is if Arafat should speak with Sharon, who destroyed all his infrastructure and killed many innocent palestinians and even children.
No the palestinians aren't terrorists as a people, some Jews also supportered when that guy (i forgot his name, Goldstein?) killed many innocent prayers in a Mosque. Palestinians hate Israel for taking them their land and their house, that's why they support terrorism (but not all, even many palestinians see that innocent civilians can't be punished for the acts of their leaders)
And your comparisation with the US is bullshit. Israel took the land of the Palestinians and is still occupiing land not recognised by nobody as belonging to israel, not the US.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo

...Arafat has ordered calm and a cease-fire respected since 10 days. he has never ordered any attacks on innocent civilians, as did Sharon (and hamas).

...Israel took the land of the Palestinians and is still occupiing land not recognised by nobody as belonging to israel, not the US.

I don't mean to ruin your Arab propaganda-fest by introducing actual facts, but since Arafat's lies about a cease-fire, there have been registered no fewer than 170 incidents of Arab terrorist attacks against Israelis, including 4 attempted suicide bombing attacks that were prevented by Israel.

During Arafat's "cease-fire" the Islamist suicide bombers were caught wearing explosives strapped to their bodies and in the process of cutting the fences leading into Israeli civilian towns.

Not to mention the interception of the Palestinian Authority boat loaded with fifity (50!) tons of warfare, most of it from Iranian origin, including long range Katyusha rockets, Sagger and LAW anti-tank missiles, mortars, mines, advanced explosive equipment, weapons and sniper rifles, ammunition and much more.

Such is Arafat's definition of a "cease-fire."

* * *

As to the second point of how Israel "took the Palestinians' land" this is total and utter nonesense, just like your claim of cease-fire.

In fact, the UN partitioned the land into Israel and into Palestine. There was no "taking" of Arab land as you claim.

Of course we know that the Palestinians rejected that partition and tried to exterminate all Jews, and the rest is history. Except that since then Israel has offered the Palestinians a state of their own on at least 3 occasions publicly and each time the Palestinians found excuses to refuse to have their own independent state.

Instead, the Palestinians and other Arab and Islamic countries have tried to systematically exterminate all Jews in Israel (and in terror attacks all over the world).

The only reason the Palestinians do not have their own state is their own repeated refusal to accept one, just as they have refused to accpet any civilized mode of coexisting with their Jewish and Christian neighbors.

[takeo]

about the cease-fire, i didn't hear on the news any incidents since Arafat's newyear call and i heard there was a common treaty even signed by hamas and Jihad to stop unconditionally all terrorist attacks on ISRAELI TERRITORY (which was what Sharon demanded, he said in Israel, and Gaza, westbank don't belong to israel). About the ship full of weapons, I don't know if that is true, even the spokesman of the white house didn't want to commend if it was true and both Iran and PA are deniing. Besides, this would be too convenient for Sharon not to have to talk with Arafat at this moment (a demand by the US).
I think even if absolutely nothing happens sharon will find a stone trown at an israeli tank by a kid enough to cancell any meeting with Arafat, he simply doesn't want to talk with him, cease-fire or no cese-fire.

"In fact, the UN partitioned the land into Israel and into Palestine. There was no "taking" of Arab land as you claim"

yes, and the palestinians rejected that at this time because for them it meant to divide their country in two. however this partition-plan and later on Israel in its current status (which was a lot more than in the partition-plan) were recognised by the world and the UN, but the occupation of gaza and Westbank were NOT recognised by he uN nor any other country. So this last one is considered by everyone as "taking of Arab land"
but in fact israel also took the palestinian part of the partition-plan and refused to give it back, this is as well "taking of Arab land" (even if pals initiated the war in 1948 that is no legitimation to keep it, in 1967 it was of course Israel that started)
i think this partition-plan should be taken in consideration again if both Palestinians and israeli decide that they don't want to live next to eachother anymore. So we can have two equal states on the territory that was Palestine, and there will be enough place for the returning refugees.

[aid]

Takeo,

Are you just an incredibly naive and ignorant guy or what?

[takeo]

yes, I know Israel will never allow that, even if it is plan they have offered themselves, but it would theoretically be a good plan for peace without Palestinians and israeli have to live next to eachother.
But if Israel won't accept this, than they have to allow the refugees back and give the palestinians their land back. This is not naive, i believe sooner or later they will have to do it, it is what the world wants, it is even what the US wants, and the Palestinians, nor the Arab states, will not make a final peace for anything less. so, in fact, Israel has no choice.

[watcher]

Israel is allowing the refugees back, and "palestinians" have the right to return to their own lands from which they came from... So peace is very possible. Should be that simple but "palestinians" want the label "palestine" to continue to cover over Israel.

[aid]

Originally posted by takeo
yes, I know Israel will never allow that, even if it is plan they have offered themselves, but it would theoretically be a good plan for peace without Palestinians and israeli have to live next to eachother.
But if Israel won't accept this, than they have to allow the refugees back and give the palestinians their land back. This is not naive, i believe sooner or later they will have to do it, it is what the world wants, it is even what the US wants, and the Palestinians, nor the Arab states, will not make a final peace for anything less. so, in fact, Israel has no choice.

Bozhe milostivy, kakaya glupost'!

Aza nahrischkeit!

[Negev]

Muy importante: P'tuy ghdas mjds prefgk!



Don't understand what that means?

Maybe that's cause it wasn't in English like some other posts here lately.

[aid]

Negev,

Who says it must be in English only?

English is not the only language on earth.

And some of it is in Yiddish.

And Yiddish is my beloved language.

[aid]

Bob Dylan dedicated this song to Takeo:



Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

[Negev]

aid,

Bob Dylan. A fine choice.

Now that's something I can definitely understand in any language.

[takeo]

lol

didn't know bob dylan was zionist...


Well I guess the neighbourhood bully behaved pretty bad by stealing a house and sending the owner away and than took as well the garden of his neighbours.
So I can imagine his neighbours don't really like him, nor does the original owner... that's a little more than being criticized and condemned for being alive.


"The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

would this part be contributed to the palestinians??


"Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

well, that is the fate of every criminal who robbed other people's possetions... if you don't live according to the laws, you have to face the consequences

"He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

So the US isn't an ally to speak of? the US and Europe should pay the weapons Israel is using to kill palestinians AND it should send troops to die for a country that refuses to live according to international laws?

"Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

What do you expect if you rob someone's house they will leave you alone?

"Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

Noone enslaved him, but he enslaves millions of peoples. This paradise is build on the blood of others.

"Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully. "

Of course to benefit from this you have to belong to the special Choosen ones who can live there, the others are not wellcome.



"What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully. "

well, he didn't pollute the moon and stars, but polluted the soil with the blood of his victims and caused many wars