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Thread: Breakthrough in talks over cease-fire resolution

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reffo
    No, I definitely don't agree with this sentiment. It smacks of total defeatism and if that gets a hold of the psyche of Israelis, they will lose the war in the future!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
    We can discuss that self-serving psychodrivel some other time. In the meantime, tell me the status of the kidnapped soldiers.
    IMO, the soldiers will be exchanged only for the new Hezbollah fighters that Israel captured in the war.....I must admit, that's only my hope. It is quite probable though that Hezbollah will also want to gain the release of the other prisoners as well.....we will just have to see how those negotiations will pan out.

    Now, with regards to your dismissal of my caution as just "psycho babble", feel free to call it a defeat if that makes you feel better. Personally, I would rather call it a defeat for everyone....certainly the Lebanese and Hezbollah but since Israel didn't achieve it's aims, then yes, a defeat for Israel as well.

    You might think that I'm just quibbling and playing with words but just consider the difference between what I call defeatism which is: Finger pointing, recrimination, blaming, internal bickering and all that unproductive energy that comes with all that. As opposed to an organised analysis of what went wrong, drawing the appropriate conclusions cooperatively and implementing better solutions for the future. I know which approach I would prefer....Having said that, if there are people who need to be blamed, they can still be got rid of...if you get my drift....so long as those conclusions will be reached through a well considered analysis rather than through an atmosphere of a witch hunt.

    Last but not least, I too must admit that I was wrong in giving too much credit to a certain individual with whom we both exchanged some posts. In your previous post, you suggested that I should heed the readings of John Galsworthy a bit more.....well mate......I think you were right....c'est lave
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

  2. #47
    takeo
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    US involved in planning Israel operations even before the July 12 kidnapping

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1682743/posts

    US involved in planning Israel operations -- The New Yorker

    Lebanon offensive prelude to strike on Iran
    NEW YORK -- The US government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, “The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.

    The kidnapping triggered a month-long Israeli operation in South Lebanon that is expected to come to an end on Monday.

    But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US preemptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.

    Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the Israeli and US governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah -- and shared it with Bush administration officials -- well before the July 12 kidnappings.

    The expert added that the White House had several reasons for supporting a bombing campaign, the report said.

    If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes.


    So another prove this operation was carefully prepared by the US, long before the 12th july incident, used as a handy excuse to launch the operation which was planned ahead.

  3. #48
    Jayhawker Soule
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reffo
    You might think that I'm just quibbling and playing with words but ...
    I don't think you're quibbling; I think you're wallowing in shameful, self-serving, touchy-feely nonsense.

    If this war results in hundreds of deaths, the decimation of southern Lebanon, an Hezbolluh legitimately boasting qualitatively enhanced prestige and support, and a prisoner exchange, it will constitute, not simply a defeat, but an ignominious defeat. It will, in fact, mean that Israeli and Lebanese babies died for less than nothing.

  4. #49
    caliphantacious
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    Quote Originally Posted by takeo
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1682743/posts

    [U]US involved in planning Israel operations -- The New Yorker

    But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US preemptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.
    these two are the type you hope for when selling steak knives door-to-door.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    The problem is that Sy Hersh is actually wrong more than he is right. In the past 5 years he's made a lot of claims few if any that turned out to be accurate. Maybe he's right on this one but his track record is not good.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule
    I don't think you're quibbling; I think you're wallowing in shameful, self-serving, touchy-feely nonsense.
    Whatever...!! "Touchy feely" ....is the last thing I would have called it
    Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem.
    Author: John Galsworthy 1867-1933, British Novelist, Playwright

  7. #52
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Yesterday on BBC's News Hour, Ibrahim Mossaui, Hezbollah-al Manar TV's spokesman said:

    1) Hezbollah will not disarm
    2) Hezbollah will not leave southern Lebanon
    3) Hezbollah will not ceasefire or stop shooting at the IDF


    Which is pretty much what an Arab's word and all the treaties with Arabs is worth, e.g. zilch.

    A society of "Honor"? I laughed so hard I wet myself at that silliness. It's a society of concienceless sociopaths, liars, paranoids, fools and the deluded.

  8. #53
    takeo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates
    Yesterday on BBC's News Hour, Ibrahim Mossaui, Hezbollah-al Manar TV's spokesman said:

    1) Hezbollah will not disarm
    2) Hezbollah will not leave southern Lebanon
    3) Hezbollah will not ceasefire or stop shooting at the IDF


    Which is pretty much what an Arab's word and all the treaties with Arabs is worth, e.g. zilch.

    A society of "Honor"? I laughed so hard I wet myself at that silliness. It's a society of concienceless sociopaths, liars, paranoids, fools and the deluded.

    There is a cease-fire (as long as Israel stops shooting at hezbollah and lebanese positions and if Israel withdraws in the next days, as they are required to do by the UN-resolution) in place.
    The future of Hezbollah-military wing will be decided by the Lebanese together with with the Hezbollah, and not by anyone else. The Amal president of parliament is leading the commission. Most likely they will withdraw from the immidiate borderzone if the international troops arrive, and possibly on a later date merge with the Lebanese army.

  9. #54
    Roland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates
    1) Hezbollah will not disarm
    2) Hezbollah will not leave southern Lebanon
    3) Hezbollah will not ceasefire or stop shooting at the IDF
    4) Hezbollah will demand reparations any minute.

  10. #55
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takeo
    There is a cease-fire (as long as Israel stops shooting at hezbollah and lebanese positions and if Israel withdraws in the next days, as they are required to do by the UN-resolution) in place.
    Those were the official words coming out of his mouth. The BBC interviewer actually asked more than once to clarify his answer or nuance it in some way. He would not.

    The future of Hezbollah-military wing will be decided by the Lebanese together with with the Hezbollah, and not by anyone else.
    Lebanon today decided to suspend any talks with Hezbollah about anything and has also announced it will not deploy any troops to the south. So far so good!

  11. #56
    Illuminatus
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    The argument between Hizb'Allah (the Party of God) and the cabinet of the Lebanese Republic is "over the disarmament".

    http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Lebanon/10060007.html

    UNSC res. 1701 unanimously voted for and ordered the disarmament of Hizb'Allah (the Party of God).

    ^_^

  12. #57
    takeo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mediocrates
    Those were the official words coming out of his mouth. The BBC interviewer actually asked more than once to clarify his answer or nuance it in some way. He would not.



    Lebanon today decided to suspend any talks with Hezbollah about anything and has also announced it will not deploy any troops to the south. So far so good!
    Do you have any link to the interview or do I have to believe you on your word? Which I won't since I know you sometimes invent things.
    Talks with Hezbollah will go on but have been postponed to the next meeting. So no "suspention of talks". (see the link provided by illumus)

  13. #58
    Senior Member Mediocrates's Avatar
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    BBC News Hour rebroadcast on NPR yesterday afternoon around 5pm eastern. I don't tape the radio or go to the web to verify what I just heard. The person speaking was Ibrahim Moussoui (sp?) I don't recall the name of the BBC staffer - it was a man though, not Judy Swallow. Mr. Moussoui claimed he was the official spokesman for al Manar TV and as such was speaking for Hezbollah in that capacity.

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