Example of Arab lies about Israel's right to self-defense

[Micah]

Hey, I have this list compiled by a web site, I had the list on another forum a while back ago, but didn't know of this forum before then.

Anyways, I was wondering if you could spread some light on these "massacres." I think they are before Israel was a nation but it could be after the fact too.

The King David Massacre
The Massacre at Baldat al-Shaikh
YEHIDA MASSACRE
KHISAS MASSACRE
QAZAZA MASSACRE
The Semiramis Hotel Massacre
Dair Yasin Massacre
NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE
Abu Shusha Massacre
THE TANTURA MASSACRE
BEIT DARAS MASSACRE
THE DAHMASH MOSQUE MASSACRE
DAWAYMA MASSACRE
HOULA MASSACRE
Salha Massacre
SHARAFAT MASSACRE
The Massacre at Qibya
KAFR QASEM MASSACRE
Khan Yunis Massacre
The Massacre in Gaza City
AL-SAMMOU' MASSACRE
Aitharoun Massacre
Kawnin Massacre
Hanin Massacre
Bint Jbeil Massacre
Abbasieh Massacre
Adloun Massacre
Saida Massacre
Fakhani Massacre
Beirut Massacre
The Massacre at the Sabra and Shatila Camps
Jibsheet Massacre
Sohmor Massacre
Seer Al Garbiah Massacre
Zrariah Massacre
Homeen Al-Tahta Massacre
Jibaa Massacre
Yohmor Massacre
Tiri massacre
Al-Naher Al-Bared Massacre (Palestinian camp)
Ain Al-Hillwee Massacre (Palestinian Camp)
OYON QARA MASSACRE
Siddiqine Massacre
AL-AQSA MOSQUE MASSACRE
THE IBRAHIMI MOSQUE MASSACRE
THE JABALIA MASSACRE
Aramta Massacre
Eretz Checkpoint Massacre
Deir Al-Zahrani Massacre
Nabatiyeh (school bus) Massacre
The Sohmor Second Massacre
Mansuriah Massacre
Nabatyaih Massacre
Qana Massacre
Trqumia Massacre
Janta Massacre
Western Bekaa villages Massacre


The board I go to has about 4 or so people really down my throat with EVERYTHING Israel does. I'm sure Israel does some bad things, but they like to make it seems like Israel is always the badguy.

This is why I bring up the subject of Discrimination. Do the Jews discriminate against the Arabs in anyway? I heard they can't lease any propertie for more then something like 2 years? Not sure about the number, just that it is a very temporary number that I was given. I have already disputted the fact that the Arabs can't buy land, because unless it is privately owned land not even Jews can buy it. But then leasing came into the picture and just wondering if you can help me out here.

Also, why does Israel have to be a ethnically Jewish only state? I am asked basically this question, and the answer I give is, "Why does Israel have to be a melting pot like America? Why can't the Palestinians go back into Jordan where they came from or into some other Arab nation?" Did I answer well or could I have done better?

[elke]

OK, here are some of them. I will look more later:

King David Hotel - housed the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division. Not a civilian center. Three phonecalls were made to warn the occupants, but apparently were ignored, and the British denied that they were made. However, in 1979 evidence was introduced by a member of the British Parliament that confirmed Begin's account of the phonecalls.

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/His...ing_David.html

Deir Yasin - was indeed an ugly episode, but exaggerated greatly by the Palestinian side. I am a great fan of Ami Iseroff, he seems to be an extremely intelligent, fair-minded and capable person. Here is the link to his explanation of the incident:

http://www.ariga.com/peacewatch/dy/

Sabra and Shatilla - as you know, and I know, and everyone knows, this massacre was not, repeat not , committed by Israelis in any way, shape, or form. The worst you could say about this incident is that Sharon should have known that it will happen (which is what the Independent Commission said).

I will have to search more regarding the following "massacres". The only (very few) hits I could Google out were from untrustworthy sources (overwhelmingly Palestinian or pro-Palestinian, and one Israeli that denied them outright, with no backup I could confirm).

The Massacre at Baldat al-Shaikh
YEHIDA MASSACRE
KHISAS MASSACRE
NASER AL-DIN MASSACRE
Abu Shusha Massacre

I will do the others tomorrow. This is depressing, I have to say: can't even find normal sources to learn about it.


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[Micah]

The list came from an Arab web site, so some of them may be outright false.

[elke]

Originally posted by Micah
The list came from an Arab web site, so some of them may be outright false.

I am aware of that, but we still need to be armed with any facts we can muster. It's the only hope we have to win this idiot war.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by elke
can't even find normal sources to learn about it.

I have this problem quite a bit when doing searches regarding Israel. The first few dozen links are quite often Arab propaganda sites. Of course anyone can make a site on whatever they want, but it's a sign that more anti-propaganda sites are needed so they will also show up on searches.

I do notice that israelforum.com is now showing up as a sponsored link in most Israel-related searches I do on google now though

[Mediocrates]

Part of the problem clearly is the same problem locating battles in the US Civil War. Most battles have two names. Bull Run & Manassass for example. The North used markers on their geo maps and the South used towns and place names that were already familiar to them since almost the whole war was fought in the South.

Since the context of this clearly is Arab then you have to keep in mind that plus the fact that for some of these, nowhere else in the world or in the texts are these events, real or otherwise even given any prominence worth writing about. One person's massacre could be another person's chicken theft.

Then you have to understand that some of these events might not be real at all.

If I were British I might think Bosworth Field, August 22, 1485 was a massacre too. It depends, doesn't it?

BTW at the Boston Massacre 1770 - 4 people died (and one more later), including the man who taunted the Redcoats to shoot. There were 6 injured. It's where we get the phrase 'Reading the Riot Act' from. The British passed the Riot Act and one clause in it required that it had to be read to the crowd before being invoked. Upon which the Army could shoot whomever they wanted. Crispus Attucks taunted the Army to read the act but they refused. Shortly after someone threw a brick at the troops and they started firing anyway.

[elke]

Originally posted by cerulean


I have this problem quite a bit when doing searches regarding Israel. The first few dozen links are quite often Arab propaganda sites. Of course anyone can make a site on whatever they want, but it's a sign that more anti-propaganda sites are needed so they will also show up on searches.

I do notice that israelforum.com is now showing up as a sponsored link in most Israel-related searches I do on google now though

One other thing we need to think about: somehow, we need to have our kind of info show up in the first 1 or 2 hits, or at least pages . You know how some people name their business, so that it was in the beginning of the category? That way, they are more likely to be called? Well, we need to somehow do the same on "search".

[Mediocrates]

Bubbling search results to the top of the results page is a 'feature'. Those are paid placement services. Google, Yahoo and others don't like to talk about it but it's real and it's big business.

[elke]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Bubbling search results to the top of the results page is a 'feature'. Those are paid placement services. Google, Yahoo and others don't like to talk about it but it's real and it's big business.

Well, there has got to be at least one pro-Israeli, or at least simply normal , website that would have the money to pay for this feature. Somebody must realize that most people will not look at 132 pages of "hits" to get a kernel of information. They may look at two or three sites, but as things stand now, ferreting out the truth is well beyond the regular Joe Shmoe's attention span and time availability.

[Micah]

And when you argue with people that like to take the first 100 or so Arab propaganda sites for use as a weapon and have no way to respond AND are really the only one activly defending the Jews, it makes it hard

BTW, isn't there some way to make it so when searching on the search engines threads in this forum can be part of the results too? Something like spider code or something...

Way too late at night to be thinking...

[danholo]

Most of these massacre things are BS, like Jenin "massacre".
First of all, pro-Arab claim all these without any evidence. When these people post a list like that, they should give more information.

Here's something on the "AL-AQSA MOSQUE MASSACRE":

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/myths/mf20.html#o

I also found some site, where they say a Jew by the last name of "Emery" has disproved the Israeli version of this "massacre", but I don't know.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by elke


Well, there has got to be at least one pro-Israeli, or at least simply normal , website that would have the money to pay for this feature. Somebody must realize that most people will not look at 132 pages of "hits" to get a kernel of information. They may look at two or three sites, but as things stand now, ferreting out the truth is well beyond the regular Joe Shmoe's attention span and time availability.

Welcome to the world of being outnumbered 100:1. We must keep the Hasbara effort going. We must continue to lobby politicians and complain to media. We must continue to support Israeli economics and boycott those which do not. There are perhaps 15 million of us in the world and another few million who support us. But the level of that support varies. While the Christian right may be in our corner I for one, living among them don't see them moved to action by and large.

Part of what you see is the effect of what I've been screaming about for months and months: Pick a message and stay on it relentlessly. Use the same words and hammer the message home over and over. If there were 100 pro Israeli websites that used the same verbiage "massacre of innocent civilians" for example you would see more hits. We can disavow ourselves of our innocence and reluctance and put more inflammatory and 'extreme' sites online. As long as the material is basically accurate, what's wrong with it? Include lots of pictures, lots of slogans and remember that people have about a 60 second attention span online. If you need any more than that you will lose them.

[Intellectualme]

While the Christian right may be in our corner I for one, living among them don't see them moved to action by and large.
. [/B][/QUOTE]

According to Christian History, the far right Christians want all the Jews back in Jerusalem so the Last Days can come, and the Messiah will come down. Sounds pretty scary to me. Back in the Old Days they wanted to convert all the Jews to Christians so the last days could come.....

[elke]

Originally posted by Intellectualme

According to Christian History, the far right Christians want all the Jews back in Jerusalem so the Last Days can come, and the Messiah will come down. Sounds pretty scary to me. Back in the Old Days they wanted to convert all the Jews to Christians so the last days could come..... [/B]

Well... Yes, that's true. However, IMO this revelation they had is quite an improvement.

[Micah]

What about the discrimination subject part of this thread?