Just have a question.

[Ariaku]

I was talking with some acquaintances about the Jewish faith and the bible and the state of Israel and all that jazz.

I know the Orthodox Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, and their still waiting on the messiah to come.

So, how do they explain the state of Israel being in existance? According to what I know the gathering of Jews to reastablish Israel was supposed to happen after the messiah came.

Just curious how all that is explained.

[Aviva]

So, how do they explain the state of Israel being in existance? According to what I know the gathering of Jews to reastablish Israel was supposed to happen after the messiah came.

Christians believe this but Jews don't need the Messiah to have come to live in the land of Israel again, (a small minority of Orthodox Jews, like the nutty Naturei Karta sect will disagree with this, though). Generally speaking there have always been small numbers of Jews living in the land of Israel during the Exile.

Having said that, Orthodox Jews believe that the Messiah will rebuild the Temple on the Temple mount when he comes and many Lubavitch Jews believe that the Messiah has already come in the form of Rabbi Schneerson (z'l), anyway.

[Womble]

I was talking with some acquaintances about the Jewish faith and the bible and the state of Israel and all that jazz.

I know the Orthodox Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, and their still waiting on the messiah to come.

So, how do they explain the state of Israel being in existance? According to what I know the gathering of Jews to reastablish Israel was supposed to happen after the messiah came.

Just curious how all that is explained.

1)If the gathering of Jews to reestablish Israel was supposed to happen after the Messiah came, Jesus wouldn't have fit the bill in the first place. When he was around, there was no exile yet and nowhere to gather the Jews from.

2)The gathering of Jews to reestablish Israel was supposed to happen not AFTER the coming of the Messiah, but around the same time as the coming of the Messiah. In fact, it is supposed to be the Messiah's job to complete this task, although it can start before that.

3)Even if we assume that the reestablishment of Israel can only be done after the coming of the Messiah, it does not follow that Jesus is the Messiah.

[Ariaku]

Correct me I'm wrong on any of this. The muslims believe that their "Imam, and that's just some kind of special leader?" along with Jesus is going to destroy Israel?

Also they think that satan is responsible for the existance of Israel now and that's why their imam and jesus are going to destroy it?

[Aviva]

Correct me I'm wrong on any of this. The muslims believe that their "Imam, and that's just some kind of special leader?" along with Jesus is going to destroy Israel?

Also they think that satan is responsible for the existance of Israel now and that's why their imam and jesus are going to destroy it?

Where did you hear that? I don't think that's mainstream Islamic belief.

[Ariaku]

There are a couple of shia muslims that I've talked to just online, and that's their view.

That's the reason for the questions,, I'm just curious about some beliefs, or the why behind some of the beliefs.

[Aviva]

There are a couple of shia muslims that I've talked to just online, and that's their view.

That's the reason for the questions,, I'm just curious about some beliefs, or the why behind some of the beliefs.

I guess you have to distinquish between mainstream belief and the ideas of individual people. What you mentioned above sounds rather suspect to me.

[Katoom]

Correct me I'm wrong on any of this. The muslims believe that their "Imam, and that's just some kind of special leader?" along with Jesus is going to destroy Israel?

Also they think that satan is responsible for the existance of Israel now and that's why their imam and jesus are going to destroy it?

You're right...

In Islamic tradition, Imam Mahdi (though the Shiites and Sunnis don't believe in the same Mahdi) along with Jesus Christ will win the "Battle between Jews and Muslims", and they will destroy Gog and Magog...

The muslims believe that Jesus is alive in the 5th sky (Muslims believe in 7 skies) and that before Judgement day, he will come to earth, declare himself a Muslim (follower of Muhammad),and he will pray with the Mahdi.

just my 2 cents....

[Arturo32]

My name is Arthur L. Ivy , I am 32 years old, living in the U.S. , a born U.S. citizen , and I am not Jewish or Israeli, but I am a firm believer in your cause and wish to help , I would like to know is it possible for an American to serve in the Israeli Army to fight for Israel and the holy land.

[savvy]

Also they think that satan is responsible for the existance of Israel now and that's why their imam and jesus are going to destroy it?

I have read this on some Islamic forums. Although Muslims aren't all certain about the destruction of Israel, they believe (mostly Shias) in the coming of the Madhi and a Muslim Jesus, who never died on a cross and will preach Islam on his return. It's strange but the book of Revelation believes in the coming of the Anti-Christ who will claim to be Christ and try to convince the Jews he's their Messiah. He'll come along with the false prophet.

There are several religions that believe in the coming of an end-times leader or Messiah. The New Age Movement believes in the coming of some guy who will fulfill everyone's expectations, but according to them only Jews and Christians won't accept him.

[Aviva]

My name is Arthur L. Ivy , I am 32 years old, living in the U.S. , a born U.S. citizen , and I am not Jewish or Israeli, but I am a firm believer in your cause and wish to help , I would like to know is it possible for an American to serve in the Israeli Army to fight for Israel and the holy land.

Yes, an American can serve in the IDF.

But I'm pretty sure that that American would also need to have Israeli citizenship and be able to speak Hebrew.