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Thread: Turkey condemns 'genocide' vote

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Turkey condemns 'genocide' vote

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6045838.stm
    Turkey has condemned a French parliamentary vote which would make it a crime to deny that Armenians suffered "genocide" at the hands of the Turks. Turkey called it a "serious blow" to relations and has threatened sanctions. The vote was also criticised by the EU.

    The bill, tabled by the opposition but opposed by the French government, needs approval from the Senate and president.

    Armenia says Ottoman Turks killed 1.5 million people systematically in 1915 - a claim strongly denied by Turkey.

    There are accusations in Turkey that the Armenian diaspora and opponents of Turkey's European Union membership bid are using the issue to stop it joining the 25-member bloc.

    'Unfounded'

    Turkey has been warning France for weeks not to pass the bill which was sponsored by the opposition Socialist party.

    It provides for a year in jail and a 45,000-euro (£30,000) fine - the same punishment that is imposed for denying the Nazi Holocaust.

    The opposition against Turkey in the EU has begun to present an ugly face
    Cengiz Candar
    Turkish commentator

    "Turkish-French relations, which have been meticulously developed over the centuries, took a severe blow today through the irresponsible initiatives of some short-sighted French politicians, based on unfounded allegations," the Turkish foreign ministry said.

    The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Istanbul says many Turks are angry at what they see as double standards in the EU, where opinions are sharply divided about whether Turkey should be allowed to join.

    The European Commission has said that if the bill becomes law it will "prohibit dialogue which is necessary for reconciliation" between Turkey and Armenia.

    The official Turkish position states that many Christian Armenians and Muslim Turks died in fighting during World War I - but that there was no genocide.

    But public debate on the issue has been stifled in Turkey.

    The French vote came as controversial Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk won the 2006 Nobel Prize in Literature.

    He has faced prosecution in Turkey for talking about the murder of hundreds of thousands of Armenians during World War I and thousands of Kurds in subsequent years.

    The charges have since been dropped.

    Celebration and concern

    The French governing Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) did not back the bill, but gave its deputies a free vote.

    It passed by 106 votes to 19, after most deputies left the chamber in protest against what critics say is an attempt to attract votes of the some 500,000 people of Armenian descent in presidential elections next year.

    Ethnic Armenians in Paris celebrated the result.

    "The memory of the victims is finally totally respected," said Alexis Govciyan.

    But French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin distanced himself from the bill.

    It is "not a good thing to legislate on issues of history and of memory," he said.



    Armenia vote splits Turkish press
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6043290.stm

    Newspapers in Turkey differ over how to respond to Thursday's vote in the French parliament on a bill that would make it a crime to deny that Turks committed genocide against Armenians during World War I.

    Some commentators believe the vote signals opposition to Turkey joining the European Union, and one writer calls France "a disgrace to the civilised world".

    Other dailies appeal for a level-headed approach so that Turkey does not "humiliate" itself, and argue that Ankara still has many friends in Europe.


    CENGIZ CANDAR IN BUGUN
    The draft law is actually a clear sign that "the anti-Turkey rebellion in the EU" has begun. That's why we cannot and must not see today's vote and its results exclusively in terms of relations between Turkey and France. This contains dimensions that can turn into a Turkey-EU issue, and the opposition against Turkey in the EU has begun to present an ugly face.


    HASAN CEMAL IN MILLIYET
    In Europe there are not only those who want to keep Turkey outside of the EU. There are also those who defend Turkey's EU membership in terms of the contribution it will make to the political, economic and strategic interests of Europe. That is why staying on track and continuing the journey to Europe is certainly to Turkey's benefit.


    EMIN COLASAN IN HURRIYET
    As long as we keep begging the Europeans on the way towards the EU, many more genocide tales, and many other issues and embarrassing obstacles will be set before us. Those who do not see this are either liars attempting to deceive the nation or the ignorant ready to sell their country to the EU.


    MEHMET ALI BIRAND IN POSTA
    Let us not provoke those Turkish people who cannot control their reactions. Let us tell France to "stop" but do that within civilised limits. Let us not humiliate ourselves nor incite xenophobia in Turkey.


    OKTAY EKSI IN HURRIYET
    We stress that France is a disgrace to the civilised world. However, it is a precondition for Turkey, which tells others that "what you are doing is shameful in terms of freedom of expression" first of all to get rid of its own sources of shame.


    ILHAN SELCUK IN CUMHURIYET
    France is not alone in this move. The West has changed towards Turkey! If France punishes those who say that "there was no Armenian genocide" it will be a shameful historical document and permit us to perceive the new realities of the world.


    SAHIN ALPAY IN ZAMAN
    Ankara is getting ready to retaliate against France if it turns the denial of the "Armenian Genocide" into a crime. Even if we assume that the EU politicians and elites are not so stupid as to take steps that will push Turkey away from Europe, it seems inevitable that Turkey-EU relations will go through a tense period in the future.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Is it just me or are the French the biggest hypocrites in the world?
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Is it just me or are the French the biggest hypocrites in the world?
    thanks for your point. Even the french historians and newspapers are against this law. few of them trying to catch votes of armenians; well, imagine their investments in Turkiye. Renault, Peugeut, Citroen, Loreal and more and more... most of them are eventually being boycotted... Turkiye has cancelled lots of stuff because of this law; like building nuclear plants, buying attack heli, planes and so on. Their investments are over in Turkiye. Turkiye is one of the (4th or 5th) France's best market. France will be economically fvcked up. It's just because of few deputy's passion of votes for next elections. They were punishing Turkiye for Turkish penalty code of 301 and pointing the so called weak freedom but now they did same.
    i believe that the France is not a country of democracy.

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    the french bookwriter Jean-Michel Thibaux submited for Turkish Citizenship (he and his family) for reaction against the French Parliement
    http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/dunya/525...3428&oid=1&l=1

    +boycott begun with TOTAL products
    Total has 2.5 billion€ of endorsement
    http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/5...3428&oid=1&l=1

    French companies pssed of their government

    press against French ugly face:
    La Figaro (french)
    Le Monde (french)
    Liberation (french)
    Le Parisien (french)
    New York Times
    The Independent
    Guardian
    Times (England)
    Daily Telegraph
    Financial Times
    Die Presse (Germany)
    Washington Post
    Eko Moscow Radio (Russia)
    And most of Canada press

    press who support french law:
    DER STANDART (austria?)
    Armenia and Armenian Press

    EU parliement against the French law. Olli Rehn against the law.

    congrafvckingtulations france. now you are down

  5. #5
    AnotherAlly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Is it just me or are the French the biggest hypocrites in the world?
    Really? Did the French commit genocide at some point in their history, but are denying it?

  6. #6
    Hebrew Swede
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    Once again, this proves the danger with centralized power, socialism, big governments and French politics in general. You cannot make it illegal to deny or debate historical events, including the Holocaust. This is a crime against the Freedom of Speech.

  7. #7
    medkorp
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    No, you're wrong, the first one is USA!

    Remember the number of war started by this state!

    Medkorp
    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Is it just me or are the French the biggest hypocrites in the world?

  8. #8
    Khazar
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    France should really look into its own back-yard before jumping on a moral high horse and preaching to others about what is and isn't proper conduct and how others must apologise for matters not concerning France while France doesn't feel obliged to apologise for everything. Like what Algerians call the Algerian Genocide, their role in the Ruwandan Genocide, then we have Benin, Gambia, Chad, Cameroon, Guinie, the America's and so on......................France is opening a tin of worms for herself, silly, childish pollitics and a violation of freedom of speech.

    The worst part is, France says, "Let historians resolve historical matters, that the Algerian Genocide allegations are a issue for historians and not polliticians, a joint platform should be founded, they were massacres not genocide etc etc etc"

    Turkey also says, ""Let historians resolve historical matters, that the Algerian Genocide allegations are a issue for historians and not polliticians, a joint platform should be founded, they were massacres not genocide".

    But France feels what Turkey does is unnaceptable, while doing the same herself, someone hand France a mirror please.

    Medkorp
    No, you're wrong, the first one is USA!

    Remember the number of war started by this state!
    Why is the U.S the number one hypocrite? I don't get it, or its relevance to the post.

  9. #9
    MrRight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hebrew Swede View Post
    Once again, this proves the danger with centralized power, socialism, big governments and French politics in general. You cannot make it illegal to deny or debate historical events, including the Holocaust. This is a crime against the Freedom of Speech.
    well, denying the Holocaust in France and in other European countries is also a crime.

    But, I agree with you, history should be left to historians. France went down to Turkey's level, by passing this law

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    ps; please don't answer to MrRight if you don't want him to hijack the topic. thanks
    Last edited by Cellis; 10-14-2006 at 06:30 AM.

  11. #11
    MrRight
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    Quote Originally Posted by serdar View Post
    ps; please don't answer to Mrright if you don't want him to hijack the topic. thanks
    go jerk off to ataturk's picture

  12. #12
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherAlly View Post
    Really? Did the French commit genocide at some point in their history, but are denying it?
    Are you being faceous or are you unaware that French commited their very own genocide of Algerians? More than 1.5 million Algerians were massacred under the French rule.

    Medkorp, didn't you say you are Algerian? Are you unaware of France's history in that region?


    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/387740.asp

    Turkish parliamentary committee drafts law on Algerian genocide
    The French parliament is due to vote Thursday on a law making it a criminal offence to deny the alleged massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.

    NTV-MSNBC
    Güncelleme: 18:29 TSİ 11 Ekim 2006 Çarşamba
    ANKARA - The Turkish Parliament’s Justice Commission has sent draft legislation to one of its sub-committees outlining a proposed law that would criminalise the denying that France committed an act of genocide against the people of Algeria.
    According to another bill submitted to the sub-commission on Wednesday, any Turkish citizens found guilty of making verbal or written claims that the Ottoman Empire committed an act of genocide against its Armenian citizens would result in a gaol of between one and three years. If these claims were made overseas, the penalty then may be increased to four years in prison.

    The Justice Commission proposed declaring May 8 a day of commemoration of the French genocide of Algerians. Those found guilty of denying the Algerian genocide by the French will receive a prison sentence of between one to three years.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  13. #13
    medkorp
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Are you being faceous or are you unaware that French commited their very own genocide of Algerians? More than 1.5 million Algerians were massacred under the French rule.

    Medkorp, didn't you say you are Algerian? Are you unaware of France's history in that region?
    I'm totaly aware about that, my father a FLN member, so i could say, i know very well this moment.

    But as i say for me, past is past, i'm also french now, and i couldn't always talk about the past, even if i don't forget it.

    But it's my father history, not mine, we are in 2006, Algeria become free in 1962, so the poluation has changed, French are no more colonialist.

    Medkorp


    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/387740.asp

    Turkish parliamentary committee drafts law on Algerian genocide
    The French parliament is due to vote Thursday on a law making it a criminal offence to deny the alleged massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.

    NTV-MSNBC
    Güncelleme: 18:29 TSİ 11 Ekim 2006 Çarşamba
    ANKARA - The Turkish Parliament’s Justice Commission has sent draft legislation to one of its sub-committees outlining a proposed law that would criminalise the denying that France committed an act of genocide against the people of Algeria.
    According to another bill submitted to the sub-commission on Wednesday, any Turkish citizens found guilty of making verbal or written claims that the Ottoman Empire committed an act of genocide against its Armenian citizens would result in a gaol of between one and three years. If these claims were made overseas, the penalty then may be increased to four years in prison.

    The Justice Commission proposed declaring May 8 a day of commemoration of the French genocide of Algerians. Those found guilty of denying the Algerian genocide by the French will receive a prison sentence of between one to three years.[/QUOTE]

  14. #14
    AnotherAlly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yala View Post
    Are you being faceous or are you unaware that French commited their very own genocide of Algerians? More than 1.5 million Algerians were massacred under the French rule.

    Medkorp, didn't you say you are Algerian? Are you unaware of France's history in that region?


    http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/387740.asp

    Turkish parliamentary committee drafts law on Algerian genocide
    The French parliament is due to vote Thursday on a law making it a criminal offence to deny the alleged massacre of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.

    NTV-MSNBC
    Güncelleme: 18:29 TSİ 11 Ekim 2006 Çarşamba
    ANKARA - The Turkish Parliament’s Justice Commission has sent draft legislation to one of its sub-committees outlining a proposed law that would criminalise the denying that France committed an act of genocide against the people of Algeria.
    According to another bill submitted to the sub-commission on Wednesday, any Turkish citizens found guilty of making verbal or written claims that the Ottoman Empire committed an act of genocide against its Armenian citizens would result in a gaol of between one and three years. If these claims were made overseas, the penalty then may be increased to four years in prison.

    The Justice Commission proposed declaring May 8 a day of commemoration of the French genocide of Algerians. Those found guilty of denying the Algerian genocide by the French will receive a prison sentence of between one to three years.
    No, I did not know this about France. Thanks, for the information.

    I suppose tit-for-tat is reasonable.

    Does France deny this? Or, have they readily admitted this part of their history?

    Are they held to the same standard as Turkey is being held to, in regards to admitting this part of their history as a pre-equisite for its entrance into the EU?

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnotherAlly View Post
    Does France deny this? Or, have they readily admitted this part of their history?
    Please, none of these European countries ever want to own up to their past massacres which amount to more than 100 million people dead easy. They always want to point the finger at Israel and this time at Turkey. French massacred Algerians up till 1962 and they are pointing the finger at Turkey for something committed in 1915! If I were in charge of Turkey I would not even want to be part of the EU. The hypocrisy is too much to handle.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

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