Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 103

Thread: Israel, Iran, and the Bomb

  1. #1
    Senior Member Kenneth's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Dublin - Republic of Ireland
    Posts
    1,930

    Israel, Iran, and the Bomb

    Special Report from The American Spectator

    Israel, Iran, and the Bomb
    By George H. Wittman
    Published 10/24/2006 12:08:43 AM

    With the world still reverberating from the North Korean test explosion, President Ahmadinejad of Iran decided to draw attention back to his country and himself by again warning Europe and the United States that friendship with Israel was "dangerous." The Iranian leader also threatened once more that Israel "no longer needs to exist."

    The Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, decided to challenge the new Iranian outburst with a thinly disguised threat of his own by saying that Iran would "pay a price" for calls for Israel's destruction. The rest of the world has become so used to Ahmadinejad's bellicosity that little concern was noted.

    The Israelis aren't making that mistake. They have no intention of waiting until Tehran has an operational nuclear capability. Furthermore, it is highly doubtful they will inform Washington before taking military counter measures when they decide to do so.

    Most observers have pointed to the nuclear explosion of North Korea as emboldening other countries to seek their own nuclear weapon development. The Israelis, however, have seen in the modest counter measures against Pyongyang all that they could expect from further development of the Persian bomb.

    The world, in general, is under the impression that Israel and Washington coordinate their respective Middle East actions. The fact is that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. If Tel Aviv makes the decision it must attack Iranian nuclear weapon sites, it certainly will be after much discussion with the United States. That Israel has made the decision to strike Iranian targets, however, will not be communicated to Washington until there is nothing the U.S. can do about it.

    Israel will never leave its future -- and defense of that future -- to the mercy and approval of any American administration. As hard as it is to believe for people who perceive Israel and the U.S. joined at the hip, there is an almost compulsive desire of the Israeli military to not in any way be viewed as an American assisted force.

    This may seem rather contradictory when one considers the billions of dollars in aid the U.S. has given Israel, but the pride and history of the IDF and akin security elements hearken to the period between the 1940s and '60s when there was little or no foreign government military assistance and all their wars were victories. Advice is listened to, but that's as far as it goes. The Americans are considered friends, but not to be trusted with decision-influencing and certainly not decision-making.

    Of course no one in the Middle East believes any of this. For the Islamic world Washington is seen as the puppet master in Israel's "Punch and Judy" show. Would it be so, the Israelis would have handled differently the latest fracas with Hezbollah in Lebanon. Palestine long since would have been a truly independent and sovereign state. And Israel never would have developed nuclear weapons, which it now has had for nearly forty years.

    It wasn't until the Reagan Administration that a truly close working relationship came to exist between American and Israeli security and military officials. In spite of the Camp David accords -- or maybe because of them -- the Israelis never really trusted Jimmy Carter. Clinton, however, became a clear favorite, and George W. Bush now follows close behind.

    Nonetheless it has always been basically a one-way street. Tel Aviv takes and Washington gives. There is of course some exchange of intelligence, but far less than one would think. The Americans are exceedingly grateful for the portion of the Israeli intel that they get. Tel Aviv keeps them happy with a selected collection of interesting, but always self-serving, information. Washington responds with far more.

    Born of the impact of the Holocaust is the intellectual and psychological need for the Jewish state to control its own destiny. Rightly or wrongly the Israelis in the end trust only themselves. Like the wealthy cousins they are, even Jews in the American and European diaspora are outsiders to the nuclear Zionist family.

    President Ahmadinejad would do well to study the derivation of 1967's Six Day War. The Israelis do not always follow a logical and reasonable path in the perception of their own best interests. Preemption is considered essential to their survival, and it most certainly will be the case if Iran continues a nuclear weaponized belligerency.

    George H. Wittman, a member of the Committee on the Present Danger, was founding chairman of the National Institute for Public Policy.

    Special Report from The American Spectator
    As a youth I used to weep in butcher's shops.

  2. #2
    Alfred E Neuman
    Guest
    If I were Iran, I would fear 1967, 1973 or 1982 Israel.

    I would NOT frear post Olso Israel.


    All talk. Just like America with North Korea. All talk.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,528
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred E Neuman View Post
    If I were Iran, I would fear 1967, 1973 or 1982 Israel.

    I would NOT frear post Olso Israel.


    All talk. Just like America with North Korea. All talk.
    Yeah, that Olmert is really tough and terrifying . I'm shaking just thinking of that intimidating comb-over.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  4. #4
    1.5 million
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfred E Neuman View Post
    If I were Iran, I would fear 1967, 1973 or 1982 Israel.

    I would NOT frear post Olso Israel.


    All talk. Just like America with North Korea. All talk.
    I'm trying to imagine here what action you think is appropriate to cause "fear" in Iran...that would simultaniously provide more peace & security for Israel in the short & long term....coming up with a blank on this one...

  5. #5
    shery
    Guest
    I dont think that Iran has any will to start to attack Israel Unless Israel start the attack

    Iran just wants the world leave it alone

    and NIjad is teasing the world cuz the world never stop to bother them
    and bother islam and muslims ...

    So if US and Israel decide a war against Iran
    They are probably ready for that and theywould fight even more blod and brave than Hizbullah .. they already started the trainning from long time ago .. in heavy roads and muds ... and they are waiting for any attack ....


    As long as no one attacked Iran , Iran has no intentions to start any war
    But Still they dont fear no one and they know that no one will support them but god
    So that is why they Consider your threat for them and they are getting ready to it .

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,242
    Posted by Shery:

    I dont think that Iran has any will to start to attack Israel Unless Israel start the attack Iran just wants the world leave it alone

    If Iran wants to be left alone then it should leave the rest of the world alone. As of right now Iranian politics for some reason are very external in nature. Apparently foreign policy is more important to Aytollahs then internal chaos.

    and NIjad is teasing the world cuz the world never stop to bother them
    and bother islam and muslims ...


    Don't confuse politics with religion. Iran definetly is not the friend of the Arabs. So you would know the main purpose of Iranian nuclear program are the Arabs and not the West or Israel.


    So if US and Israel decide a war against Iran
    They are probably ready for that and theywould fight even more blod and brave than Hizbullah .. they already started the trainning from long time ago .. in heavy roads and muds ... and they are waiting for any attack ....


    Yeah, just like Egypt did in 5 wars before



    As long as no one attacked Iran , Iran has no intentions to start any war
    But Still they dont fear no one and they know that no one will support them but god
    So that is why they Consider your threat for them and they are getting ready to it .



    As of right now Mahmud is calling for Jewish blood.... Iran is playing very dangerous politics and is gaining too much power in the Arab world, and no - it's not a good thing for you as an Egyptian. The Lebanon war squarely lies on the Iranian/Syrian shoulders.

    Be very careful next time you'll be taken orders from some Aytollah and believe me those Aytollahs hate Arabs not much less then they hate the Jews.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  7. #7
    shery
    Guest
    If Iran wants to be left alone then it should leave the rest of the world alone. As of right now Iranian politics for some reason are very external in nature. Apparently foreign policy is more important to Aytollahs then internal chaos.
    Well I think iran is doing fine in her extrenal affairs !
    what do you suggest they bow to the west ? I think if I was iran I would act the same way that iran acting now ....
    I believe that Iran believes that even if they let those countries preview their nuclear program they wont get nothing but the same situation as now

    Which means When saddam hussein let them seek for mass destruction weapons and even before they report that they find any of this weapons

    Iraq was attacked by USA .... and till now no mass destruction weapons ..
    So USA said that saddam helped alqaeda on the 11 september attack!

    that is the real chaos you are talkng about

    SO why would iran trust you ? they knew your intentions anyway !



    Don't confuse politics with religion. Iran definetly is not the friend of the Arabs. So you would know the main purpose of Iranian nuclear program are the Arabs and not the West or Israel.
    Well if bush didnt say crusades I would split politics from religion

    But He claimed and it sticked in our head ....

    beside of that ( its all about islam ) and you are looking after any islamic regime
    that is all about .


    Yeah, just like Egypt did in 5 wars before
    Well I think everyone from his point of view is a winner
    but if you really believe that you did win in this war
    why you are calling it ( YOM KIBBUR ) and everyone believes that you were bad to eachother that is why god let you down in this war

    and why gold meir cried to washington to help them
    and you build a airspace bridge to help the israeli airforce against the egypian ariforce

    What forces you to leave siana and what about your undefeatable berline line ?

    and why you accepted saddat ? and why you gave up siana ?

    anyhow maybe we lost but not the physical war
    we lost the cold war and that i would agree at ....






    As of right now Mahmud is calling for Jewish blood.... Iran is playing very dangerous politics and is gaining too much power in the Arab world, and no - it's not a good thing for you as an Egyptian. The Lebanon war squarely lies on the Iranian/Syrian shoulders.

    Well you might be surprised that the whole arab world might support iran
    and if our regimes refused to do that ,,, then they wouldnt find a public to support them in any war against Egypt or syria or anywhere esle

    The government in Egypt represent the minority
    You know how many we are

    So we dont have to follow the gov ... but the gov has to follow us and our will ,,, cuz a gov without public is a failure one ....

    Be very careful next time you'll be taken orders from some Aytollah and believe me those Aytollahs hate Arabs not much less then they hate the Jews.
    [/QUOTE]


    Well no one hates iranian

    but i cant promise you that they dont hates jew
    of course everytime you start a war against arab they hates u more and more
    and unfortunately as you hates all muslims
    they hates all jew too

    even if theres good muslims and theres good jews .. .

    beside I do remember that people n knesset did refused the war against lebanon

    So the world now know that the jew arent the main problem

    The USA is much more dangerous than you

    I m pretty sure that many jewish enjoy being between muslims and in egypt
    and they know that many muslims are very nice people

    but your government are destroying any hope for any good relation between muslims and jew

    Though maybe the one who aims for all this war not jew ....
    but the crusades !

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,242
    Posted by Sheri:


    Well I think iran is doing fine in her extrenal affairs !

    Not really.


    what do you suggest they bow to the west ? I think if I was iran I would act the same way that iran acting now ....
    I believe that Iran believes that even if they let those countries preview their nuclear program they wont get nothing but the same situation as now


    What is the current Iranian situation? Iran is the safest IT HAS BEEN since the Revolution now that Saddam Hussein is gone and America is on Iranian border, in fact both borders. Iranian biggest enemies have always been the ARABS.

    Iraq was attacked by USA .... and till now no mass destruction weapons ..
    So USA said that saddam helped alqaeda on the 11 september attack!


    Where did USA say that Saddam helped Al Qaida on 9/11. Source.

    Quote:
    Don't confuse politics with religion. Iran definetly is not the friend of the Arabs. So you would know the main purpose of Iranian nuclear program are the Arabs and not the West or Israel.

    Well if bush didnt say crusades I would split politics from religion


    Common!!!!


    But He claimed and it sticked in our head ....

    beside of that ( its all about islam ) and you are looking after any islamic regime
    that is all about .


    Don't blame your problems on the West. You know I know a lot of Coptic Christians here in America - most very recent immigrants from Egypt. They don't have anything good to say about Muslims or Egypt in general.

    Quote:
    Yeah, just like Egypt did in 5 wars before

    Well I think everyone from his point of view is a winner
    but if you really believe that you did win in this war
    why you are calling it ( YOM KIBBUR ) and everyone believes that you were bad to eachother that is why god let you down in this war


    It's called - Yom Kippur.


    and why gold meir cried to washington to help them
    and you build a airspace bridge to help the israeli airforce against the egypian ariforce


    ? The Soviet Union delivered more supplies to Syria and Egypt at the time of the October war then USA could ever deliver to Israel. READ IT UP!!!!! At the end an entire Egyptian Army was surrounded and only by a miracle or rather Soviet mercy Sharon did not end up in Cairo. He should have.

    What forces you to leave siana and what about your undefeatable berline line ?

    The Bar-Lev line was guarded by 500!!! Soldiers against almost 250,000 Egyptians!!!!! In fact you've got beaten by a country of some 2.5 million compared to combined Egypt/Syrian population of over 50 million at the time!!!!

    and why you accepted saddat ? and why you gave up siana ?

    Because Carter said so.

    anyhow maybe we lost but not the physical war
    we lost the cold war and that i would agree at ....


    Yeah, Sadat was real smart. During the Cold War he PAID tens of thousands of Egyptians lives to change sides from USSR to USA. Very nice politics you have out there.

    Be very careful for Mahmud Arab blood is even cheaper.


    Well you might be surprised that the whole arab world might support iran
    and if our regimes refused to do that ,,, then they wouldnt find a public to support them in any war against Egypt or syria or anywhere esle


    Be very careful what you wish for. Aytollahs do not have Arab interests in mind. Iran is not a very kind country.

    What is happening in Iraq right now is exactly what will be waiting for you if you go to far on this Mahmud thing of yours.

    The government in Egypt represent the minority
    You know how many we are

    So we dont have to follow the gov ... but the gov has to follow us and our will ,,, cuz a gov without public is a failure one ....


    You think Iran will solve your problems? Don't make me laugh. Iran cannot even refine it's own oil - let alone resolve Arab problems. And the Arab world has VERY MANY PROBLEMS!!!! Israel and USA are the least of these.


    Well no one hates iranian

    I don't hate them either. They hate me.


    but i cant promise you that they dont hates jew
    of course everytime you start a war against arab they hates u more and more
    and unfortunately as you hates all muslims
    they hates all jew too



    So you say that Muslims of Uzbekistan should hate Jews because Israel and the Arabs have a territorial dispute? Interesting.....


    even if theres good muslims and theres good jews .. .

    Yes, I heard that before..... Are you a good muslim?


    beside I do remember that people n knesset did refused the war against lebanon

    So the world now know that the jew arent the main problem

    The USA is much more dangerous than you



    I believe that Arab world is the most dangerous place in the world. It's an economically poor, socially decrepit, ethnically divided, religiously split.... perfect place to create new Osamas.


    I m pretty sure that many jewish enjoy being between muslims and in egypt
    and they know that many muslims are very nice people


    Sure, that's why there are NO JEWS in Arab countries. NONE!!!! You threw them out. Nothing to know or compare too. Israel, for example, has the third largest Iraqi ex-pat community in the world.... and they were not even allowed to vote!!!!

    In the latest Israeli polls the most Arab-hating population of Israel turned out to be the Sephardic and the Misrahi Jews.... those whose native language is Arabic.

    but your government are destroying any hope for any good relation between muslims and jew

    Jews of Khazakstan have very good relations with Muslim Kazakhs. You know why? Arabs have not touched Khazakstan yet.


    Though maybe the one who aims for all this war not jew ....
    but the crusades !



    Yes, Arab world is an example of coexistance!!!!!! I am sorry but I don't really find any Arab country attractive for my own personal secular tastes.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  9. #9
    Turkishdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by shery View Post
    Well if bush didnt say crusades I would split politics from religion!
    What about the Muslims calling for Jihad EVERY DAY ?

  10. #10
    shery
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Turkishdude View Post
    What about the Muslims calling for Jihad EVERY DAY ?
    We fight against your invasion
    So yes for jihad .. why not ..
    shall we just sit waiting for you o come to kill our people !
    that is ridiculious !

  11. #11
    Senior Member Mil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,242
    We fight against your invasion
    So yes for jihad .. why not ..
    shall we just sit waiting for you o come to kill our people !
    that is ridiculious !


    Or we can just sit and wait, and you kill yourselves. Either way the odds are not in your favor.

    When and if Mahmud gets a bomb his first target will not be Haifa but some Arab entity - presumabely Kuwait or may be Riyad.

    There is also an economic factor. Egypt already is third world country with a very rapidly growing population.... with no economic prospects on the horizon..... tourism and the suez will not feed you.
    Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.

  12. #12
    minusthejihad
    Guest
    Sunnis vs. Shi'ites is responsible for 99% of all Muslim deaths in the world today. Jihad yourselves to death by all means!

  13. #13
    shery
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Mil View Post
    We fight against your invasion
    So yes for jihad .. why not ..
    shall we just sit waiting for you o come to kill our people !
    that is ridiculious !


    Or we can just sit and wait, and you kill yourselves. Either way the odds are not in your favor.

    When and if Mahmud gets a bomb his first target will not be Haifa but some Arab entity - presumabely Kuwait or may be Riyad.

    There is also an economic factor. Egypt already is third world country with a very rapidly growing population.... with no economic prospects on the horizon..... tourism and the suez will not feed you.
    Well I know that is your wish
    But inshallah your wish and your plots wont come true
    and inshallah very soon shia and sunna will unified too .. amen amen amen .,

  14. #14
    minusthejihad
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by shery View Post
    and inshallah very soon shia and sunna will unified too
    LOL! Not! Been tried before many times. Not ever going to happen!

  15. #15
    shery
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by minusthejihad View Post
    LOL! Not! Been tried before many times. Not ever going to happen!
    Keep dreaming
    YOu might be surprised inshallah very soon soon soon

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •