Israel, Iran, and the Bomb

[Mediocrates]

I'm tryiing to picture in my mind what excuses we will hear in 30 years for why The Confederacy of Iranqistan is a toxic garbage dump with scraggly mutants lurching across the blasted landscape? Seriously - at some point you have to stop overanalyzing your failures and your hatreds and you have to move on and make something of something. Or not - and you just become another one of the world's permanent failures and we can all move on to something better.

I'm trying to think of another instance in world history where an entire region and whole cultures have had their hands on the lever of so much wealth and potential power and have actually gone backwards for decades. I can't think of one. Not even central Africa, since most of that wealth is still untapped in the ground.

We talk or like to talk about empire and the Late Great USA but what about the middle east? They are being eclipsed by everyone. By any dimension of progress they are all failing or poised on the brink of implosion. And their response is not only to do nothing at all, but to blame and threaten everyone else.

If I were a middle class Arab in an Arab state, I'd be making plans to bail.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/wheel.html

[Mil]

If I were a middle class Arab in an Arab state, I'd be making plans to bail.


They do. US and Europe are both full of Arab and Iranian professionals. I work with many of them Palestinians, Syrians, Pakistanis, Iranians, Iraqis, Egyptians....

[Mira]

Maybe this sentence should be translate that way

If muslims are gone

Would crusades leave to the jew jerusalem ?

When richard lion of hearts tried to take jerusalem
if he did successed and defeated saladin ,Would richard gaves this land to jew ?

while you were chased and hunted by them all the time .

So our excistance ( muslims ) is so important to you

But maybe you are too blind to see .

Sweetie, I take religion with a grain of salt these days. Have you heard this expression? I can count my real friends on my two hands and I am one of the lucky ones.

[Mira]

I'm tryiing to picture in my mind what excuses we will hear in 30 years for why The Confederacy of Iranqistan is a toxic garbage dump with scraggly mutants lurching across the blasted landscape? Seriously - at some point you have to stop overanalyzing your failures and your hatreds and you have to move on and make something of something. Or not - and you just become another one of the world's permanent failures and we can all move on to something better.

I'm trying to think of another instance in world history where an entire region and whole cultures have had their hands on the lever of so much wealth and potential power and have actually gone backwards for decades. I can't think of one. Not even central Africa, since most of that wealth is still untapped in the ground.

We talk or like to talk about empire and the Late Great USA but what about the middle east? They are being eclipsed by everyone. By any dimension of progress they are all failing or poised on the brink of implosion. And their response is not only to do nothing at all, but to blame and threaten everyone else.

If I were a middle class Arab in an Arab state, I'd be making plans to bail.

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/wheel.html

Of course, if you happen to be born Kuwaiti, you live better than anybody in the world. Everybody gets messed with, right? I'm over in another thread still complaining about Vichy in Lebanon. I just like reminding the French (and the British) when they get to feeling high and mighty of their past deeds, especially when the effects of their dealings can still be felt in the ME. Of course, even if they are responsible in large part for what has happened, it is still up to us to the people living in the region to repair the problems, to do more than complain and finger point. The Arab governments are corrupt and no Arab would disagree with that. Since the West has supported those regimes, Arabs do have a point against the West, but again, there comes a time when you have to just fix your house and not complain about all the poor architects who messed up the bathroom and ruined the neighbors view. I don't know where I'm going with this analogy.

[minusthejihad]

while they are pretending that they are better than arab !!!!

Who's pretending? There's no pretending. There's just denial and it ain;t that river flowing near your home sista.

Is there an Arab cure for a disease? An Arab car, jet, or train? An Arab flag on the moon? An Arab computer? An Arab government that wasn't created by shedding blood? An Arab system of anything that is accepted by anyone else?

Yeah, we're pretending! LOL!

[minusthejihad]

Have you brought democracy , peace and safety to iraqi ?

No, but while shiites and sunnis murder each other we don;t really have to worry about Iraqi madmen like Saddam selling weapons to terrorists, letting them train there, or sending checks to families of suicide bombers anymore. In fact, they're so busy killing each other off, they almost forget that they really want to be killing Jews and Westerners. Expect for the lives of our soldiers, I'd say say a dangerous Iraq is the least of our concerns. Oh, sorry, am I cold and cynical. Oops, I guess so! Darn.

[minusthejihad]

Would crusades leave to the jew jerusalem ?

Jerusalem was taken back by Jews in the 1967 Six Day War. It wasn't given to them by anyone. It, our holiest city, was retaken and won't be released again. This time Israel has nuclear weapons. No one is that stupid, well, except for Mahmud, but his time is coming.

[minusthejihad]

I'm over in another thread still complaining about Vichy in Lebanon. I just like reminding the French (and the British) when they get to feeling high and mighty of their past deeds, especially when the effects of their dealings can still be felt in the ME.

I almost feel sorry for the French with whats happening over there. Almost. Nah, actually I enjoy it. Nevermind.

Anyway, some thugs over there say that if Sarkozy is elected, they're starting to kill people. Sound familiar?

[Mediocrates]

Yes there is always the White Man's Burden. But they colonized all the rest of the world too. They depopulated Central America, enslaved China & the Philippines and exterminated anyone else who got in their way, including each other. I think the Arabs/West Asians, in the wider scope and history of contact with the west have faired better than most. The story they have to tell is pretty benign in relation. Sorry if that's cold, but it's a hard fact. They been for the most part, allowed to do what it is they've demanded we let them, which is to enslave and slaughter one another with abandon in the name whichever prophet they like. With our help of course but the driver has always been them. Sure we toppled the Iranian government and we're overly friendly with the Saudis, but we liquidated the Mau Mau's and the Mestizo's. So perhaps the Arab political world needs to get some perspective on that. And this is not a threat, simply an observation. If we really wanted to kill all of them, we would have.

[Mira]

I'm all for what you say Medio. I have no desire to be a righteous victim. It sells movies, but I've never received any of the box office receipts. Time to move on. Palestinians like our recent Israeli Arab friend think they are the only ones who have had their lives turned upside down? Fcuk um!

[Aviva]

Maybe this sentence should be translate that way

If muslims are gone

Would crusades leave to the jew jerusalem ?

No, not at the time.

But now - yes. Christians believe that Jews should return to the land of Israel. For many of them, it's an important part of what they believe.

When richard lion of hearts tried to take jerusalem
if he did successed and defeated saladin ,Would richard gaves this land to jew ?

while you were chased and hunted by them all the time .

So our excistance ( muslims ) is so important to you

But maybe you are too blind to see .

Christians have stopped trying to dominate the religions of other people. They've stopped trying to take what rightfully belongs to others. They've stopped forcibly converting non-Christians. They've stopped fighting wars in the name of G-d.

Muslims are still doing all of this. Muslims are still living in the Middle Ages in the time of the Crusades. They can't get over the fact that they didn't win and didn't manage to subjugate Europe in the process.

[shery]

[QUOTE]

No, not at the time.

But now - yes. Christians believe that Jews should return to the land of Israel. For many of them, it's an important part of what they believe.

Is that what you really believe ?
well let me refer to you some priest in USA and they are very famous and let them hear what they say about jew who killed jesus !

FR James Schall .... and many more .. google on internet and read what the people who believe that jesus is their savior believe in ....

and Trust me IF we are gone ,, you will be back to dark ages again ..
when jew were hidding his identity to survive .

Christians have stopped trying to dominate the religions of other people. They've stopped trying to take what rightfully belongs to others. They've stopped forcibly converting non-Christians. They've stopped fighting wars in the name of G-d.

Well that what you think also ....
The most extremist religious people you can meet
a very religious christian... they have no kind of argument in religion ..
they are extremely racist extremist .

Muslims are still doing all of this. Muslims are still living in the Middle Ages in the time of the Crusades. They can't get over the fact that they didn't win and didn't manage to subjugate Europe in the process.

I think the one who even live in dark ages not middle ages
is the whole world who allows gays and become athiest
and do everything against god will

after all religion that been sent to us in earth we should be upgrading ourself and believing in god and be more aware about what happened to those disbelievers who came before us ....

So we wouldnt repeat their mistakes

but unfortunately we are doing what people were doing in dark ages

Woman slavery , children molesting , homosexuality , war and killing
drugs , athiest ?

So we are not living in dark ages ?

You think we really deserve to live in the 21 century ? while we are still live in zero century !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Even think hat the people who are molesting children and abuse woman will soon ask for molesting children rights

in excuse that everyone is free to chose the way he wants in sex !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aviva]

[QUOTE=shery;226049]

Is that what you really believe ?
well let me refer to you some priest in USA and they are very famous and let them hear what they say about jew who killed jesus !

FR James Schall .... and many more .. google on internet and read what the people who believe that jesus is their savior believe in ....

and Trust me IF we are gone ,, you will be back to dark ages again ..
when jew were hidding his identity to survive .

Yes, I totally agree. Some Christians are still very anti-semitic. But many Christians believe that the Jews have to return to the land of Israel for the Messiah to come. Obviously the Christians believe this will be Jesus coming for a second time.

So many Christians support Zionism and Jews for this reason.

I think the one who even live in dark ages not middle ages
is the whole world who allows gays and become athiest
and do everything against god will

If G-d hates gays then why doesn't He kill them? OK, you might say that you believe AIDS to be G-d's anger against gays but it also kills babies in Africa and women who never enagaged in sex with anyone but their husband. AIDS can be caught by anyone from a blood transfusion or in a hospital. Even you could catch it, G-d forbid, in a hospital.

after all religion that been sent to us in earth we should be upgrading ourself and believing in god and be more aware about what happened to those disbelievers who came before us ....

Yes but we all have free will. Do you believe this? That humanity was created not as slaves but as thinking individuals who could make a choice between good and evil?

but unfortunately we are doing what people were doing in dark ages

Woman slavery , children molesting , homosexuality , war and killing
drugs , athiest ?

I don't think there were any atheists in the Dark Ages.

And slavery, molesting, drugs, etc are all criminalised now. Homosexuality is accepted as a fact of life, (it's always been around anyway - look at the ancient Greeks, for example).

What would happen if you yourself had a child who grew up and told you they were gay? What would you do, Shery? I know a lot of gay people and all of them feel they were born gay. How can you argue with this if that's what they feel?

[shery]

[QUOTE=Aviva;226082]

Yes, I totally agree. Some Christians are still very anti-semitic. But many Christians believe that the Jews have to return to the land of Israel for the Messiah to come. Obviously the Christians believe this will be Jesus coming for a second time.

So many Christians support Zionism and Jews for this reason.

Support them for their goals

but how can you support some1 who do not even believe in what you believe
which means the christians cant support jewish as you think
You insult jesus and you dont believe in him at aaaaaaaalllll

In islam we believe that he is prophet
in judaism you believe he is nothing .....

If G-d hates gays then why doesn't He kill them? OK, you might say that you believe AIDS to be G-d's anger against gays but it also kills babies in Africa and women who never enagaged in sex with anyone but their husband. AIDS can be caught by anyone from a blood transfusion or in a hospital. Even you could catch it, G-d forbid, in a hospital.

Yes this is the result that the AIDS did spread all over the world
but AIDS killed many gays in san francisco ...
and also the main reason that AIDS come to you is from sex
the other reasons it all the result that the desease did spread

But the main reason of AIDS WAS SEX SEX SEX
not blood transfer , or children in africa and all what you did mention

Yes but we all have free will. Do you believe this? That humanity was created not as slaves but as thinking individuals who could make a choice between good and evil?

and unfortunately they always chose the evil
In all religion and in all history the good people was the minority .

I don't think there were any atheists in the Dark Ages.

In dark ages theres no religion at all .
and no one did believe in god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And slavery, molesting, drugs, etc are all criminalised now. Homosexuality is accepted as a fact of life, (it's always been around anyway - look at the ancient Greeks, for example).

Yes I look to the dark ages example ( ancient greeks that what I call dark ages ) !!!!!!!!!!

What would happen if you yourself had a child who grew up and told you they were gay? What would you do, Shery? I know a lot of gay people and all of them feel they were born gay. How can you argue with this if that's what they feel?

Inshallah I will never have a child like that
and if I have a child like that I will locked him till he repent

and if he didnt ... then its the will of god

The son of noah was overwhlemed ... the wife of prophet loot was doomed with gays
The wife of pharao had a place in heaven cuz she believed in god in time of prophet moses

So you can be in bad enviromnent as the wife of pharao when no one believe
but you believe and be saved

or you can be under and with faithful people and prophets and you would be bad and that would not save you from the punishment of god
as what happened to prophet loot wife .

[Kenneth]

"Inshallah I will never have a child like that
and if I have a child like that I will locked him till he repent
and if he didnt ... then its the will of god "

What if it's part of Gods plan to have certain individuals as non-breeders, because six, seven a hundred generations down the line they would help spawn monstrous people who cause much pain and suffering on the world.

What if by forcing the ancestors of these future monsters to toe the line and procreate you upset God and he smites you six ways from Sunday for your interference.

Best leave well enough alone.

"But the main reason of AIDS WAS SEX SEX SEX"

The main reason was Christian Christian Christian policy, people are going to get it on no matter what so better to give out good advice and condoms instead of wishy washy sermons and guilt.