Home | I have a question to Israelis/Jews. Prior to the Israel-Hezbollah war, Israel killed innocent Lebanese civilians on the beach (correct me if I'm wrong).
Could it not be that Hezbollah kidnapped those Israeli soldiers (partly) in response to this?
More importantly, do you seriously believe that the war was justified and rational (I mean starting a war because of a few captured soldiers) ?
While neither Jew nor Israeli, I'd like to chime in on this free forum.
I think you're refering to the Gaza Beach Atrocity which, as evidence has shown was probably a Palestinian hoax.Originally Posted by Turkishdude
Nope, the Secretary General of Hizb'Allah (the Party of God) named Hassan Nasr'Allah (the Victory of God), stupidly miscalculated in wrecking the Lebanese economy into $billions in debt, 40 percent unemployment rate, destroying a once modern infrastructure that will take 20 years to rebuild, killing and maiming thousands of innocent Lebanese and most important forcing a UN resolution that ordered the sovereign Lebanese Republic Army into Southern Lebanon for the first time in 30 years.
Yes, it was totally 'justified and rational'.
The price paid for crossing an internationally recongnized border to kidnap 2 soldiers from a country whose also a chartered member of the UN -- should give pause to the Secretary General of Hizb'Allah (the Party of God) the next he decides to do it again.
There's always a price to pay for stupidity.
^_^
And what about the continuous violations of Lebanese airspace and such? There are people who claim this to be one of the main reasons behind Hezbollah's capture of Israeli soldiers.
Illuminatus is correct. Hamas planted landmines along the coast of the beach. That is what killed the family.
These were Palestinians in Gaza, had nothing to do with Lebanese or Hezbollah.Could it not be that Hezbollah kidnapped those Israeli soldiers (partly) in response to this?
First of all Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israelis but killed 8. Second of all, this was not the first time they tried to do this. This is the third time they had tried to kidnap/kill Israeli soldiers and the second time they had been successful. Israel couldn't take the chance anymore of having a rogue, terrorist militia on their border. Here is a summary:More importantly, do you seriously believe that the war was justified and rational (I mean starting a war because of a few captured soldiers) ?
Hizbullah still at it
Ynet
Published: 07.12.06, 12:10
Only eight months ago, kidnap attempt near Kfar Rajar prevented by young IDF soldier. Six years ago, three soldiers kidnapped, their bodies returned three years later. Nasrallah: Kidnapping soldiers a declared objective
..............
The most difficult event in the area, however, occurred in October of 2000, at which time three soldiers, Benny Avraham from Bnei-Brak, Adi Avitan from Tiberias and Omar Suwaeid from Kfar Salameh, were kidnapped by the Hizbollah.
Three years later, in January 2004, the bodies of the three soldiers were returned to Israel, along with an additional kidnap victims, Elhanan Tennenbaum. Their return came at a heavy price: a large number of released Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners, among them terrorists Mustafa Dirani and Sheikh Karim Obeid.
"It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders
By the way the only Lebanese prisoner in Israeli jails is Samir Kuntar. Hezbollah has been killing and kidnapping Israelis for years trying to free this monster:
The World Should Know What He Did to My Family
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003May17.html
By Smadar Haran Kaiser
Sunday, May 18, 2003; Page B02
NAHARIYA, Israel
Abu Abbas, the former head of a Palestinian terrorist group who was captured in Iraq on April 15, is infamous for masterminding the 1985 hijacking of the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro. But there are probably few who remember why Abbas's terrorists held the ship and its 400-plus passengers hostage for two days. It was to gain the release of a Lebanese terrorist named Samir Kuntar, who is locked up in an Israeli prison for life. Kuntar's name is all but unknown to the world. But I know it well. Because almost a quarter of a century ago, Kuntar murdered my family.
It was a murder of unimaginable cruelty, crueler even than the murder of Leon Klinghoffer, the American tourist who was shot on the Achille Lauro and dumped overboard in his wheelchair. Kuntar's mission against my family, which never made world headlines, was also masterminded by Abu Abbas. And my wish now is that this terrorist leader should be prosecuted in the United States, so that the world may know of all his terrorist acts, not the least of which is what he did to my family on April 22, 1979.
It had been a peaceful Sabbath day. My husband, Danny, and I had picnicked with our little girls, Einat, 4, and Yael, 2, on the beach not far from our home in Nahariya, a city on the northern coast of Israel, about six miles south of the Lebanese border. Around midnight, we were asleep in our apartment when four terrorists, sent by Abu Abbas from Lebanon, landed in a rubber boat on the beach two blocks away. Gunfire and exploding grenades awakened us as the terrorists burst into our building. They had already killed a police officer. As they charged up to the floor above ours, I opened the door to our apartment. In the moment before the hall light went off, they turned and saw me. As they moved on, our neighbor from the upper floor came running down the stairs. I grabbed her and pushed her inside our apartment and slammed the door.
Outside, we could hear the men storming about. Desperately, we sought to hide. Danny helped our neighbor climb into a crawl space above our bedroom; I went in behind her with Yael in my arms. Then Danny grabbed Einat and was dashing out the front door to take refuge in an underground shelter when the terrorists came crashing into our flat. They held Danny and Einat while they searched for me and Yael, knowing there were more people in the apartment. I will never forget the joy and the hatred in their voices as they swaggered about hunting for us, firing their guns and throwing grenades. I knew that if Yael cried out, the terrorists would toss a grenade into the crawl space and we would be killed. So I kept my hand over her mouth, hoping she could breathe. As I lay there, I remembered my mother telling me how she had hidden from the Nazis during the Holocaust. "This is just like what happened to my mother," I thought.
As police began to arrive, the terrorists took Danny and Einat down to the beach. There, according to eyewitnesses, one of them shot Danny in front of Einat so that his death would be the last sight she would ever see. Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rock with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar.
By the time we were rescued from the crawl space, hours later, Yael, too, was dead. In trying to save all our lives, I had smothered her.
The next day,Abu Abbas announced from Beirut that the terrorist attack in Nahariya had been carried out "to protest the signing of the Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty"at Camp David the previous year. Abbas seems to have a gift for charming journalists, but imagine the character of a man who protests an act of peace by committing an act of slaughter.
Two of Abbas's terrorists had been killed by police on the beach. The other two were captured, convicted and sentenced to life in prison. Despite my protests, one was released in a prisoner exchange for Israeli POWs several months before the Achille Lauro hijacking. Abu Abbas was determined to find a way to free Kuntar as well. So he engineered the hijacking of the Achille Lauro off the coast of Egypt and demanded the release of 50 Arab terrorists from Israeli jails. The only one of those prisoners actually named was Samir Kuntar. The plight of hundreds held hostage on a cruise ship for two days at sea lent itself to massive international media coverage. The attack on Nahariya, by contrast, had taken less than an hour in the middle of the night. So what happened then was hardly noticed outside of Israel.
One hears the terrorists and their excusers say that they are driven to kill out of desperation. But there is always a choice. Even when you have suffered, you can choose whether to kill and ruin another's life, or whether to go on and rebuild. Even after my family was murdered, I never dreamed of taking revenge on any Arab. But I am determined that Samir Kuntar should never be released from prison. In 1984, I had to fight my own government not to release him as part of an exchange for several Israeli soldiers who were POWs in Lebanon. I understood, of course, that the families of those POWs would gladly have agreed to the release of an Arab terrorist to get their sons back. But I told Yitzhak Rabin, then defense minister, that the blood of my family was as red as that of the POWs. Israel had always taken a position of refusing to negotiate with terrorists. If they were going to make an exception, let it be for a terrorist who was not as cruel as Kuntar. "Your job is not to be emotional," I told Rabin, "but to act rationally." And he did.
So Kuntar remains in prison. I have been shocked to learn that he has married an Israeli Arab woman who is an activist on behalf of terrorist prisoners. As the wife of a prisoner, she gets a monthly stipend from the government. I'm not too happy about that.
In recent years, Abu Abbas started telling journalists that he had renounced terrorism and that killing Leon Klinghoffer had been a mistake. But he has never said that killing my family was a mistake. He was a terrorist once, and a terrorist, I believe, he remains. Why else did he spend these last years, as the Israeli press has reported, free as a bird in Baghdad, passing rewards of $25,000 from Saddam Hussein to families of Palestinian suicide bombers? More than words, that kind of cash prize, which is a fortune to poor families, was a way of urging more suicide bombers. The fortunate thing about Abbas's attaching himself to Hussein is that it set him up for capture.
Some say that Italy should have first crack at Abbas. It had already convicted him of the Achille Lauro hijacking in absentia in 1986. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi now wants Abbas handed over so that he can begin serving his life sentence. But it's also true that in 1985, the Italians had Abbas in their hands after U.S. fighter jets forced his plane to land in Sicily. And yet they let him go. So while I trust Berlusconi, who knows if a future Italian government might not again wash its hands of Abbas?
In 1995, Rabin, then our prime minister, asked me to join him on his trip to the White House, where he was to sign a peace agreement with Yasser Arafat, which I supported. I believe that he wanted me to represent all Israeli victims of terrorism. Rabin dreaded shaking hands with Arafat, knowing that those hands were bloody. At first, I agreed to make the trip, but at the last minute, I declined. As prime minister, Rabin had to shake hands with Arafat for political reasons. As a private person, I did not. So I stayed here.
Now I am ready and willing to come to the United States to testify against Abu Abbas if he is tried for terrorism. The daughters of Leon Klinghoffer have said they are ready to do the same. Unlike Klinghoffer, Danny, Einat and Yael were not American citizens. But Klinghoffer was killed on an Italian ship in Abbas's attempt to free the killer of my family in Israel. We are all connected by the international web of terrorism woven by Abbas. Let the truth come out in a new and public trial. And let it be in the United States, the leader in the struggle against terrorism.
Smadar Haran Kaiser is a social worker. She is remarried and has two daughters.
"It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders
What about these? Russians recently claimed that their strategic bomber overflew Alaska, and their millitary planes crossed into the North American air space a number of times (and were escorted out by NORAD fighters.) So should some U.S. militia raid Russian terroritory to kidnap their soldiers, and demand release of criminals from Russian prisons? If such did happen, should U.S. have said that it's not the U.S. government problem and refuse to deal with this issue?
This is nonsense. Sheba Farms is another excuse for why Hezbollah starts trouble yet this small piece of land was not brought up until the UN ruled that Israel has fully withdrawn from all Lebanese Areas. Sheba Farms is Syrian land. Why am I bringing this up? It's b/c they will use any excuse to invade Israel- be it Sheba, Lebanese airspace, terrorist Samir Kuntar, Palestinians, etc. It doesn't matter. When Hezbollah/Lebanon implements UN resolution 1701 (disarm, release the 2 soldiers) then Israel will worry about fulfilling their part of the resolution.
"It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders
Well, some people will always deny their wrongdoings.
Turkishdude,
Hisballah attacked Israel because it was given an order to do so from Iran, to divert the world attention from its nuclear plans. remember a date was set for UN security counsil to decide on sanctions against them, and indeed it was postponed because of the war.
Israel was not even a consideration, it was, as countless times in the past, a scapegoat for internal Arab affairs.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...18-rferl03.htm
Prior to the war in summer, Hizbollah spent several years digging an elaborate system of tunnels near the Israeli border. They were openly preparing for a confrontation with Israel and to draw them into a guerilla war. Israel was expecting to be attacked.
The killing of Palestinians on a beach in Gaza has nothing to do with this. The voyeuristic images of a little girl crying over dead bodies was later proved to not be caused by Israeli action but this doesn't detract from Muslims continuing to use those images or claim that Israel attacked the Palestinians on the beach. Propaganda is propaganda.
The kidnapping of the soldiers was done in order to exchange those men - dead of alive - for thousands of Palestinian terrorists in Israelis prisons. Those soldiers were ordinary reservists, by the way, not professional miliary personnel and such prisoner exchanges have happened before.
The war was justfied due to Hizbollah firing nearly 4000 rockets towards Israel, as well as the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers and the murder of many more. Israel isn't a country where soldiers are expendable in any way. Dead or alive, they're always brought home to their family.
Except for trying to force the release of prisoners, Hizbollah has no rational explanation for it's attack on Israel. They were funded by Iran and their intentions against Israel were entirely malicious.
Syria and Iran playing regional politics.
You don't just kidnap Israeli soldiers and then expect a status-quo. Everyone in the Arab world from Nazrallahs to Assads, Mubaraks, Haneyas, Arafats and Abullahs know that Israel does not count to "Three".... on every provocation there is a response. ALWAYS!!!
Hizbullah provoked Israel, for whatever the political reason, and got itself a war.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
about the man shot @the beach, he's a fisherman, shot in his boat with more than 11.000 (yes eleven thousand) israeli intrusion into the lebanese territory and lebanese sky since the year 2000.
shebaa farms no matter how small, it's part of lebanon, and lebanon will not leave nor to israel nor to syria. And actually there's three lebanese prisoners in israel, Samir Kontar, Yehya Skaf, and Nassim Nesr .
Last edited by Eil; 11-01-2006 at 02:57 PM.
That's true. It's also true that some people will always have such strong pre-conceived ideas that no logical and factual proof will ever open their closed minds.
I hope you're not one of those.You must be confused, those 4000 rockets were fired after Israel's attack.
Hizzballah attacked 2 israeli millitary jeeps which were patroling along israeli border, 5 killed, 3 kidnapped. A tank which was on the way to the area, to stop the kidnappers was blown up by already placed mines by the hizballah, 3 soldiers killed. (There were similar attempts to do this before, attempts which failed).
Israeli artillary started to shell hizballah outposts on Israeli-Lebaneese border.
As a result, nassrallah gave an order to shoot the missiles and the katyushas they have on israeli cities and towns.
Then they asked Israel to release 2000 prisoners, murderers who killed and planned an attacks against israeli unarmed civillians.
The war started.
IDF objectives:
1.Release the kidnapped troops.
2.Eliminate the threat of hizballah on Israeli border.
Hizbbalah objectives:
1.Kill as many unarmed Israeli civillians as they can.
2.Divert the world attention from Iranian nuclear programm for a while.
IDF was trying to hit only hizballah activists, before every attack, they called the civillians in that area, dropped paper from the planes and asked them to move out of there. Israel even entered with ground forces to avoid any lebaneese civillian casulties withing IAF bombings.
The hizballah on the other way was targeting Israeli Unarmed civillians, they even sent dozens of suicide bombers into the cities to kill israeli civillians, suicide bombers who was arrested and putten into jail.
The UN contract said that IDF will withdrow from Lebanon and wont attack it, It also said that the kidnapped troops will be released and hizballah will be disarmed.And what about the continuous violations of Lebanese airspace and such? There are people who claim this to be one of the main reasons behind Hezbollah's capture of Israeli soldiers.
IDF withdrawed, stopped shooting and its millitary operations in Lebanon.
Hizballah didnt release nor Israeli troops nor disarmed, if so, Israel has the full right to gather intelligent data about hizbbalah.
http://www.globaljewishcommunity.com/
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