What government might that be? No one called Saudi Arabia a Democracy, AFAIKOriginally posted by Manuel
How can you call a government that denies citizenship based on religious affiliation a "modern democracy"?
Home | What government might that be? No one called Saudi Arabia a Democracy, AFAIKOriginally posted by Manuel
How can you call a government that denies citizenship based on religious affiliation a "modern democracy"?
Your ignorance insults me!Originally posted by Manuel
How can you call a government that denies citizenship based on religious affiliation a "modern democracy"?
There are 12 Arabs, member of Knesset, out of 120 seats of the Israeli parlament. 10 of them are Muslems who openly support terrorist organizations and the on going slaughter of Jews from racial reasons (yet they enjoy the freedom of speach). The other two Arabs are druzz. Both served in the IDF as colonels, one of them is a member of the consevative Likud party, (similar to the Republicans of the US), the Likud (means "Unity") is Sharon's party. Under Muslem regime the druzz had always been opressed, thus they become strong and loyal allies of ours, only from the fear of the Muslems.
The Arabs who live in the terirtories of the PA do not vote for the Kneset, thats because they all enjoy the "freedoms an liberties" of their own national goverment called: Yasser Arafat. within the PA, only G-D had more power and more liberties then the "elected" governer of the Arabs.
As for education: The palestinains are officaly the most educated bunch of Arabs in the entire Me, and it all because of the Hospital and Universities Sharon himself had built in the 70's, while he was the commanding general of these regions.
Arabs from all over the world to their best to defect and find a job here. (the same way many other 3 world citizens illegaly cross the borders to find jobs, food and relative freedom from the "freedom and liberty" of their own native lands. Who can one understand the capacity of Arab ilegal immigration, if we Jews "oppress" them so much? Arab vote in their feet every day: Arabs can't get enough of the so-called Israeli "oppression". They all love to be "oppressed" under the safty of a democraticy. The fact remainse: Sharon and the Israeli democracy is by far the best goverment in the ME.
Last but not least, Israel's war is not a raligious war, betwean "Jews" and Muslems. Our best allies in the region is Turky which is a Muslem (relative) democrathy. Our war is an athnic and national war. It is a war against a racism and muslem Fascistic racist totalitarianism.
BTW, Arabs hate not only women, Jews and Christians but Africans as well. Arabs consider Africans as inferiors, for example: the mohair of a black muslem women is by far smaller then that of an pure Arab.
Last edited by Gilgamesh; 07-23-2002 at 07:13 PM.
You seem to be forgetting that before this conflict started, the Palestinians had a regular employment rate (in Israel no less), Security control (with Palestinian Police) in thier own cities, and Civil control on much of the rest of the West Bank and Gaza.Originally posted by trainspotter18
hehe, yeah what are those selfish Palestinians doing asking for pity..
afterall they only have a 70 percent unemployment rate in the occupied territories, less than SOME African countries. They live under constant oppression. They have been under the longest illegal occupation of the 20th century (according the U.N., not Palestinian or Israeli sources).
those bastards should learn to accept their oppression and stop annoying the Israelis who just want to enjoy freedom and liberty (for themselves).
You are forgetting that Ehud Barak (then Israeli Prime Minister) offered the Palestinians an entire state on 95% of the West Bank with compensation of Israeli territory for the remaining 5%.
In other words Israel offered the Palestinians half its land, and a generous financial compensation by Israel, US, EU, Saudi Arabia, and Japan, for the purpose of re-settling refugees.
Not only did Arafat not accept this plan, he (and his PA) began this terror campaign. Hardly a day went by for over a year that Israelis did not experience a suicide bombing with 10 - 20 CIVILLIAN deaths. Do you really expect Israel to sit on its hands and allow the Palestinians to perpertrate these attacks?
I see that you are from Canada. I don't believe the Canadian government would allow Arabs in Montreal to begin a suicide campaign.
Furthermore, suicide bombings are listed by Human Rights Organization as a Crime Against Humanity. This type of activity kills innocent people, and creates an environment of terror .
Also, the so-called "Occupation" of the West Bank and Gaza is not illegal at all. Do you remember how these territories became occupied? I thiink not, but allow me to refresh your memory.
In 1967, three (3) Arab states, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan mobilized thier armies for the purpose of destroying Israel. All three had troops on Isreal's borders (which were 7 miles wide at the time), and Egypt's President Gamal Nasser vowed to ahnihilate every Jew in Israel.. He vowed publicly, and on film. Would you like a copy? I have copies upon request.
Israel pre-empted this certain ahnihilation with a legitimate, quick attack in the Sinai, West Bank, and Golan Heights. Israel's survival was assured, and these territories added to her strategic depth.
What is so illegal about Israel defending herself?
Wouldn't Canada defend herself if attacked?
What is so illegal about Israel's presence in those territories?
Need I remind you that those territories were used as bases of military attacks by a foreign government?
Need I remind you that Canada is not only the second largest country in the western hemisphere (second only to Brazil), but built on land that was previously populated by NATIVE AMERICANS. Do you plan to give an American Indian YOUR HOUSE because he feels he has an ancestral right to it?
You would call in the Royal Canadian Mounties if such a thing happend, so how can you criticise Israel (a country not even a fraction of the size of your own).
You only criticize pro-truth debaters. - ts18
You are truth? What you're not the light and the way too?
the United Nations granted the Jews Israel, oh but ignore the other things the United Nations demanded of Israel because the United Nations is biased and has no real authority
All hail the UN. It giveth and it taketh away. It granteth about 1/3rd of the Mandate to the Jews and then at the last minute reduced that by ~1/2 and giveth that half to the Hashemites. So be careful of your footing - the firm ground of UN righteousness is a wee bit shakey under thy feet.
Actually most of the evil in the world is committed by people who latch onto a broken faulty concept and then hang on to it because they are afraid to think for themselves. It has nothing to do with rationalization and an awful lot to do with hidden agendas.
Mr. Train,
What is it about the palestinian people in particular that has nurtured such a tender spot in your 5th chakra? There are tens of millions of people on this globe, who suffer beyond what any human should suffer. Millions upon millions... and you focus on this one particular group. What gives with that?
Do you deny that Islamic regimes thoughout the world, on a daily basis, are guilty of mega-crimes against humanity? Do you deny the inhumanity and horrific violations are wreaking torturous havoc thoughout the Muslim world?
Yes, it Jewish land, there for is ours, always were and always was. Its the Arabs who are the settlers and occupayers.Originally posted by trainspotter18
there were some Jews living in Palestine before the zionist mass migration so therefore it is justified.
True, Jews are a nation like any other nation, and Jews can be free only in a state of their own. Any dicrimination between the rights of Jews and the rights of other nations for a land of their own, it racism.Originally posted by trainspotter18
the Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years therefore they had a right to take the land away from the Palestinians.
The english have a land of their own, so are the russians, the chines, the Indians, the Germans... But when Jews need a land of their own... that right is disputed. Thats racism. If I've been french or english, I had a state for my self, but a Jew? ... "let us think about it".
The persecution and the holocust only explain why life of freedom and liberty in a Jewish state of our own, under Jewish control is so important. Other wise, all we Jews might suffer on the next series of persecutions. No leader will persecute us here, in Israel.
Yes, the "palestinians" are infact a collection of tribes and clans originated from egypt, lebanon and syria, some 100-70 years ago, coming over, in search for work and freedom, along the developments of modern, free, Jewish towns, in an economical and civil growth cause by the Jewish Zionist migration. Now its time they return back to their homes in egypt and syria. dodn't you think?Originally posted by trainspotter18
there's no such thing as 'Palestinian'. They are Arabs, so it makes it ok to kick them out of their land, they control over 70 nations afterall.
True! never the less, Israel exists grows and struggles, for what ever the UN thinks of it.Originally posted by trainspotter18
the United Nations granted the Jews Israel, oh but ignore the other things the United Nations demanded of Israel because the United Nations is biased and has no real authority
We didn't done the throwings, its the Arabs. Arab leaders encourged their people to run away from us. Some listen, and they live in other arab states for almost 60 years. Other, didn't listen to their own leaders, and they are equall citizens of Israel.Originally posted by trainspotter18
the Arabs attacked first, so therefore it is ok that we threw out hundreds of thousands of local inhabitants and have not allowed them to return.
Arabs thrown also thousands of Jews who lived among them for centuries. Is that ok with you?
I say that on the "throwing thing" we are equal, and the arabs don't have any right to demand anything, let alone to return.
I don't like the fact that the Israeli situation is so misrepresented to so many people in the western world. If any other nation did what Israel did, it would be branded as a brutal nation and probably would suffer crushing sanctions.
Unfounded opinions are wonderful; they are effortless and light and have the appearance of substance. But in the end they are no more than you talking about your favorite color.
Just like the Moroccans for the brutal occupation of Western Sahara, the Syrians for what they do in Lebanon, the Russians for what they do in Chechnya, the Indonesians for what they did in East Timor, the Pakistanis for their support of the Taliban [... anyone feel free to continue ...], you mean?Originally posted by trainspotter18
If any other nation did what Israel did, it would be branded as a brutal nation and probably would suffer crushing sanctions.
Before the war of '67 and the Yom Kippur, correct me if I am wrong, but was not the Gaza Strip ruled by the Egyptians and Judea/Samaria or the West Bank ruled by the Jordanians. Perhaps those anti-Israelites posting on this thread will enlighten me by answering this question:
What great or small steps did either of these two nations take to make life better for the Palestinian during Egyptian rule in the Gaza and Jordanian rule in the WB? Did the build schools or hospitals? Feed them? Thanks.
perhaps not but there were and are a 50 year continued existence of camps housing the miserable Palistinians under Jordanian domination. You DO understand that 2/3rds of all Palistinians live in horrible conditions under the opression of Jordan, Syria and other arab countries. And when for example they tried to rise up against the Jordanians, Hussein called in the army to either kill them or push them across the river into the West Bank.
During the civil war 1970-71 did you know that the Jordanians actually asked for and got IAF air support to destroy a column of 250 Syrian tanks that were moving into Jordan to take advantage of the situation and take over the country?
And when they were done the Israelis still had a couple of hundred thousand Palistinian refugees to deal with?
Did you know for example that Hussein's grandfather was assassinated by a Palistinian at the al-Aqsa mosque in 1951 and Hussein himself was nearly killed in the same shooting except some tinhorn medallion saved his life? So there's no love lost there. The Palistinians have made a national identity out of pissing off or trying to kill everyone they've lived amongst. (except of course for Arafat himself who is Egyptian but who was moved to Jerusalem at about age 14 or so after his mother died and his father threw him out of the house).
what's with you? Arab, German, ? White supremisist? Your opinions of the Jews carry the weight of centuries. Palestinians chose to live as they do, as they would not share Israel. Another propaganda piece of ****. Istaeli's as opressors? think not. To compare that to Nazi doctrine makes you the idiot of the decade. Why don't you read, to Israel, anything, before you open your idiotic mouth
"Jewish settlers have frequently been targeted since the start of the intifada in September 2000. While settlers constitute some 3 percent of the population, they make up 20 percent of all Israeli fatalities since the start of the uprising. "
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...ubContrassID=0
"The funerals for Shlomo Odesar, 60, and his brother Mordechai, 52, set out Tuesday afternoon from the settlement of Tapuah, where they lived. The two were killed in the West Bank village of Jama'in, close to the settlement of Ariel, apparently while selling diesel oil to a cement factory in the village."
These are the people some here (you know who you are) would call violent fanatics.
Leon Uris,
quote:
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What great or small steps did either of these two nations take to make life better for the Palestinian during Egyptian rule in the Gaza and Jordanian rule in the WB? Did the build schools or hospitals? Feed them? Thanks.
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Train-Pisser
at least back then the Palestinians were under Arab rule. At least back then there weren't illegal Jewish settlements being built in their land every month. At least back then there weren't "Jewish only" highways which crisscrossed Palestine, which were off-limits to the local inhabitants (a.k.a. Apartheid).
So your beef with the jews in general is that they actually know how to build something rather than destroy. Huh. I think I just made my point.
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