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Thread: Attack on Human Rights Worker in Hebron - True or False?

  1. #1
    Parsi
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    Attack on Human Rights Worker in Hebron - True or False?

    Can anyone from/near Hebron verify/reject this?
    Swedish human rights worker viciously attacked by Jewish extremists in Hebron
    November 21: Tove is still in hospital where she will remain for the next few days before returning to Sweden to receive ongoing treatment there. As well as a broken cheekbone Tove has a fractured skull and damage to her eye muscles. A complaint was filed with the police in Kiryat Arba where eye-witness statements and photo evidence was submitted. However, according to a report by Israeli human rights group Yesh Din 90% of complaints filed against Israelis to the “Samaria and Judea District” police were closed without indictments being issued.

    A 19-year old Swedish human rights worker had her cheekbone broken by a Jewish extremist in Hebron today. Earlier the same day at least five Palestinians, including a 3-year-old child, were injured by the settler-supporting extremists, who rampaged through Tel Rumeida hurling stones and bottles at local residents. Palestinian schoolchildren on their way home were also attacked. The Israeli army, which was intensively deployed in the area, did not intervene to stop the attacks.

    Tove Johansson from Stockholm walked through the Tel Rumeida checkpoint with a small group of human rights workers (HRWs) to accompany Palestinian schoolchildren to their homes. They were confronted by about 100 Jewish extremists in small groups. They started chanting in Hebrew “We killed Jesus, we’ll kill you too!” — a refrain the settlers had been repeating to internationals in Tel Rumeida all day.
    Source
    Last edited by Parsi; 11-21-2006 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsi View Post
    Can anySwedish human rights worker viciously attacked by Jewish extremists in Hebronone from/near Hebron verify/reject this?
    Swedish human rights worker viciously attacked by Jewish extremists in Hebron

    Source
    Since when is the International Solidarity Movement known an a "human rights organization"? It is widely known that they are terrorist-supporting thugs. In all your time on here have you posted anything from a reputable source? With your white supremacist nonsense and now this I am sick to my stomach.
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  3. #3
    Parsi
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    Just edited my post. I'd messed up the question with my copy&paste....

    Calm down Yala. This forum is full of links to other websites/sources.
    Are there any guidelines to what makes a source more respected and reliable than others or do you simply choose to call a site/source unreliable based on whether you like it or not?

    I just want to hear the other side of the story (if any) from the people of Hebron. Saying that "that's rubbish...", "they're thugs...." trying to slap my post is not really the answer is it.

  4. #4
    CanDo
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    "Tove is still in hospital where she will remain for the next few days before returning to Sweden to receive ongoing treatment there. As well as a broken cheekbone Tove has a fractured skull and damage to her eye muscles."
    Arab culture represents hatred, jealousy, ignorance and violence. Arabs, selfishly, not only refuse to share the land, they refuse to allow Jews to live on the land.

    Before Israel, Jews had lived under brutal, ignorant, backward Arab rule for centuries. Jews were badly persecuted throughout the Arab world. Finally, Jews had to flee from the Arab world, into Palestine.

    But the selfish, hateful Arab world would not allow Jews to live in Palestine, either, and Jews were constantly attacked by Arabs. But, in Palestine, Jews were able to defend themselves.

    The Arab world waged four wars against the Jews of Palestine/Israel. If the Arabs had won just once, they would have murdered ALL of the Jews. When Arab conventional armies couldn't kill all Jews, Arabs resorted to terrorist armies. Well financed Arab terrorist groups have been constantly attacking the Jews of Israel.

    What makes Arabs violent, selfish and hateful, I don't know. Perhaps the Swedish Tove knows why Arabs are violent, selfish and hateful. Tove provided support to these Arab terrorist groups. She blindly, or ignorantly, ignored the decades of Arab terrorism against the Jews of Israel, and she mingled amongst bloodthirsty, hateful Palestinian/Arab terrorists.

    The article said that Tove was a victim of Jewish extremists? Not true, for if it weren't for decades of subhuman Arab terrorism, there would never be a Jewish extremist.

    Tove was the victim of Arab terrorism, and also a victim of her own ignorance.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craon View Post
    Again,antisemitic,white supremacist,nazi......BS, thrown left,right and center to explain,some reprehensible acts from a section of a punk outlaw state,this violence is symptomatic of a racist,bigot,sadistic population wich thrives in crime and genocide.It is very ironic and funny that you lot,pull out the antisemitic card all the time to explain why the world hates you,bla,bla,bla and in reality THE ANTI-ANYTHING I notice on this forum is A VERY DEVELOPPED ANTI-ISLAM,ANTI-ARAB and anti- anyone who's trying to stand up to your criminal behaviour.
    LOL and who is this joker come lately? You know I never use the word "anti-Semite" yet this is the second time today someone has attributed that word to me. Just who are all these propagandists and liars on here today?
    "It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsi View Post
    Can anyone from/near Hebron verify/reject this?
    Swedish human rights worker viciously attacked by Jewish extremists in Hebron

    Source
    Not a reputable source, and not a human rights worker. However, that doesn't mean that nothing happened. Nothing in the major Israeli papers yet, at least that I've seen... if something happened, it will be in there.

  7. #7
    KettleWhistle
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    A google search returns nothing other than anti-semitic web sites. Doubt there is any truth to this. And if in fact it was, most likely it would've been on the Israeli news sites first.

  8. #8
    farmall
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    Assuming, purely for the sake of discussion, that the story were true:

    "Human rights workers" are simply supporting the "unarmed combatants", but thumping them is a severe political error. Never, ever do that.

    Acting emotionally is a an ideological betrayal, even if it would be otherwise desirable to inderdict the do-gooder contribution to enemy logistics. The way this game needs to be played is with attention to detail.

    Disinformation, subtle hinting that foreign volunteer groups contained some spies, would be the way to take them out. It would leverage Islamist credulity, scare off deluded non-islamist supporters, and increase enemy paranoia and division.

    After all, it would be easy for the CIA to infiltrate humanitarian organizations for espionage purposes.

  9. #9
    Parsi
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    [edited] To add a note about the motives of this post:
    I believe this post should not be considered against the rules of the board. The poster (me) is pro-israel, but believes subjecting some aspects of Israeli affairs to quetions will be a valuable tool to clear misunderstandings and obtaining the support of outsiders who are exposed to limited views.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kadima View Post
    True .

    http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=17547

    You have the apology of at least three Israelis .
    Thank you Kadima. I sincerely respect your attitude. This is how I know Israelis and Jews in particular :-)
    Is there anything special about the situation in Hebron? Do you live there/nearby?


    For those of you who dismiss or defame any source that you "don't like", you may want to read the passage from Kibush
    The aim of this website is to provide information and alternative commentary on the ongoing developments in the Occupied Territories - the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - in Hebrew, English and Russian. The need for such information arises since the ongoing devastation of the Palestinian land and people in the Occupied Territories is misrepresented in the Israeli and US media as "fight against terror" and a "just struggle for Israel's very existence and security". The Editors represent a range of opinions as to the optimal solution for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. However, we are united in the belief that a viable solution must be based on the unconditional end to the Israeli military occupation, and on principles of equality, justice and mutual respect.
    When I dug a bit deeper, I found:
    The Supreme Court orders the IDF and Israel Police to protect Palestinian farmers, and their property, from attacks by violent settlers, and to act immediately and decisively to permanently uproot this phenomenon
    Supreme Court Justices, Dorit Beinisch, Eliezer Rivlin, and Salim Joubran, issued their verdict on the petition that was submitted by ACRI, and the organization, Rabbis for Human Rights, in 2004 by ACRI Attorney Limor Yehuda, in the name of the heads of five village councils in the West Bank. The verdict, that was written by justice Dorit Beinisch, specifically states that the IDF and the Israel Police must take all the necessary measures at their disposal to protect Palestinian farmers who wish to work their land, and to protect their right to ownership. Ensuring the personal safety and the right to ownership of local residents, the court adds, is one of the most basic responsibilities of a military commander in the field. Justice Beinisch also states that despite a certain improvement that has occurred in relation to this issue, the state of affairs is far from satisfactory, and that the results [on the ground] have not been successful in the area of law enforcement against criminal Jewish settlers.

    In their verdict, the justices denote the principles that should guide the work of the security forces when dealing with incidents involving violent attacks against Palestinian agricultural workers, and deliberate damage to their property. Firstly, they state, action must be taken to ensure the personal security of the Palestinians, and when required, to physically protect them during the course of their agricultural work. This protection should be provided with the minimum disturbance to their work. Secondly, the verdict adds, clear and unequivocal instructions must be issued to forces deployed in the area as to what action to take to ensure that the farmers are not denied access to their agricultural land, other than in exceptional circumstances. Thirdly, security personnel should be allocated to protect the Palestinian residents’ right to ownership, and fourthly – complaints filed by Palestinian residents should be fully investigated as quickly as possible. With regard to this issue, the verdict further states, explicitly, that an investigation must be opened upon receipt of a report of an attack, and patrols (of security personnel) dispatched whose purpose is to uncover such actions. The verdict further states that it is highly doubtful that the police units that were established for this purpose have been provided with all the necessary means to enforce the law. Thus, the verdict continues, the law enforcement investigative and prosecution mechanisms must be upgraded.

    The justices also accepted the organizations’ claim that the tool of territorial closure, to prevent Palestinian entry to land surrounding Jewish settlements and illegal outposts, had been illegitimately utilized. However, the Supreme Court did not accept the organizations’ claim, which was endorsed by a statement of opinion prepared by security experts, that there was no need in the current case to close off territory even when its stated purpose is to protect settlements in the area. The petitioning organizations are disappointed that the Supreme Court chose to disregard their claim that part of the territory that was closed off was in order to defend illegal outposts. It should be noted, however, that as a result of the petition and the ensuing court decisions, there has been a significant reduction in the amount of territory to which Palestinians have been denied entry. The court voiced a particularly severe criticism of the practical methods used to close off areas to Palestinians in cases in which the stated purpose is to protect Palestinian farmers from attacks by local settlers. Justice Beinisch stated in relation to this issue that, “In order to protect Palestinian farmers, the military commander again chose to act against them, even when they are the victims of the attack”. The danger to Palestinians, she clarified, should be prevented by forces that are designated for their protection, and through the imposition of “limitations that will act as an effective measure against individuals who are in breach of the law and attack Palestinians”. Justice Joubran further added in regard to the limitations that were imposed on Palestinians in this context, that they are “akin to the granting of a prize for violence, and that they convey an erroneous message of submission and surrender to the individuals who break the law, even at the price of violating the basic principles upon which the state’s governing system is founded”.
    Acri (Association of Civil Rights in Israel)


    This situation in Hebron is by no means representative of Israel or the Israeli citizens.
    The times of force, slander and violence against 'alternative thinking' will be soon gone. It's the "educational war" that will dominate the minds and spirits of people. In my view, intellectual and rational response to objections will be the only way to win the hearts and minds of people. Calling someone "Islamofacist, etc" or bashing objections and uncomfortable questions with redicule fanatisism will not go very far.

  10. #10
    Parsi
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    Kadima's post was delete!?
    Perhaps mine will be too :-(

  11. #11
    KettleWhistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsi View Post
    Kadima's post was delete!?
    Perhaps mine will be too :-(
    "Kadima" is somebody who posted here under moniker "Ophra" and was banned. It is a general policy to delete all posts by banned former members.

  12. #12
    KettleWhistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsi View Post
    For those of you who dismiss or defame any source that you "don't like", you may want to read the passage from Kibush
    It is not a matter of "not liking" a sorce, but one of credibility. What is described in your original article doesn't appear in any mainstream media reports, and calls members of terrorism-supporting organization "human rights workers." It seems to have come out of some Arab publication, and since then was reprinted on various anti-Semitic websites like those of David Duke and jewwatch. If that in fact was true, Haaretz--a newspaper that without a doubt has an anti-Israeli bias, and which more often than not defames settlers, and anyone else it perceives to be center or rightwing--would have published it.

    As for what's going on in Hebron those publications, especially the "alternative commentaries" don't tell you the half of it. Indeed, many Jews living in this ancient Jewish cities try to do something to resist the Arab occupation--the task that ought to be handled by the IDF. What's often misrepresented is the fact that it's rarely violent, that Arab violence is more common, and that the IDF and the Israeli Border Patrol do little to protect the Israelis living there.

    Info about ISM (not impartial, but factual): http://www.stoptheism.com/Default.asp?M=24&T=126

  13. #13
    KettleWhistle
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    A really good article about ISM, with numerous photographs: http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Rea...e.asp?ID=24377

  14. #14
    Parsi
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    OK KettleWhistle,

    This is how I understand it. A reputable source, is one that does not oppose/challenge Israel. And since this forum is for promoting Israel, you prefer people not to post material from opposition groups.

    Am I right in assuming that Haaretz is a reliable source (however biased).

    The reason I get this impression is because every time someone posts an article to oppose the enemy the source is automatically considered as reliable. Your links are good examples of this. When I looked at ISM, I did find it very biased and that's why I asked people here to verify the story. You may call them terrorists, but they are among the very few sites that list a phone number and welcome challenges. Not that I support them, but I'd at least give them a chance. If they are right, then...you can guess, and if they're wrong and you can prove them wrong, then surely that's not a bad thing for Israel.

    I also understand that you don't want this forum to be used as a platform to propagate anti-Israeli material (not my intention by the way).

    That's fair enough, although I believe dealing with objections and controversial arguments intellectually will gather more support for Israel.

    Assuming ISM and et al are completely fake, then what do you think of the decision by the High court about the situation in Hebron. See Acri's material (Association of Civil Rights in Israel) above.

    I just want to find more about this. If there is another side of the story as you mentioned earlier, then please enlighten me.

  15. #15
    KettleWhistle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parsi View Post
    OK KettleWhistle,

    This is how I understand it. A reputable source, is one that does not oppose/challenge Israel. And since this forum is for promoting Israel, you prefer people not to post material from opposition groups.
    No, a reputable sources is one that reports the truth objectively. As for opposing/challenging Israel, I'm not sure what you mean. ISM is dedicated to helping terrorists destroy Israel. This isn't opposition or challenge; their material is mostly for defamation purposes.
    Am I right in assuming that Haaretz is a reliable source (however biased).
    More or less.

    You may call them terrorists, but they are among the very few sites that list a phone number and welcome challenges. Not that I support them, but I'd at least give them a chance. If they are right, then...you can guess, and if they're wrong and you can prove them wrong, then surely that's not a bad thing for Israel.
    David Duke, whose web site also features that "article" welcomes challenge, as do many neo-Nazi web sites.

    That's fair enough, although I believe dealing with objections and controversial arguments intellectually will gather more support for Israel.
    I haven't seen any serious objections or controversial arguments.

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