Sunni and Shi'ite

[Aviva]

What are the main differences between the branches of Islam?

How can they justify attacking and murdering each other when they are all Muslims and members of the same religion?

Does Islam not have an equivalent of the Jewish Ahavat Yisrael - where all the members of a religion have a duty and an obligation to love and care for each other, irrelevant of their personal differences?

[Mil]

I have a Pakistani friend, he is a Sunni. He says that Shias are "uncivilized dogs!!!"

[Mediocrates]

You mean the way the Anglicans and Catholics lopped off each other's heads way back when? To us they all look the same, to them though I think it looks like a kind of Protestant revolt.

[andak01]

What are the main differences between the branches of Islam?

Once upon a time, there were no Shiites. The Shiites came about as a schism over who should be the Caliph. The Shiites were in favor of Ali, but Ali wasn't made Caliph until after the first three: Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman.

The word Shiite means party as in political party. They were the party of Ali.

The succession to Muhammad is an extremely contentious issue. Muslims ultimately divided into two branches based on their political attitude towards this issue, which forms the primary theological barrier between the two major divisions of Muslims: Sunni and Shi'a, with the latter following Ali as the successor to Muhammad. The two groups also disagree on Ali's attitude towards Abu Bakr, and the two caliphs who succeeded him: Umar ibn al-Khattab and Uthman ibn Affan. Sunnis tend to stress Ali's acceptance and support of their rule, while the Shi'a claim that he distanced himself from them. They argue that he did not do so because he was angry at having been denied worldly power and pleasure; rather, he felt that he had a duty to keep the Muslim community on the strict path of Islam, and that he was being kept from fulfilling the religious duty that Muhammad had appointed to him. The Sunni Muslims say that if Ali was the rightful successor as ordained by God Himself, then it would have been his duty as the leader of the Muslim nation to make war with these people (Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman) until Ali established the decree. But Ali did not fight Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman, because firstly he did not have the military strength and if he decided to, it would have caused a civil war amongst the Muslims, which was still a nascent community throughout the Arab world.[27]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib

Husayn was the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad. He was killed in the Battle of Karbala in present day Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husayn_ibn_Ali

It is the Battle of Karbala that is being commemorated by Shiites when we see pictures of them bleeding from self inflicted wounds on Ashurah. Ashurah means 10 or the tenth day of Muharram when the battle occurred.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala

How can they justify attacking and murdering each other when they are all Muslims and members of the same religion?

I don't believe there is any Islamic justification for doing so. But that would be the same with any sectarian strife. Civil wars tend to be irrational. However, it should be recalled that a minority was allowed to inflict great oppression upon the Shiites of Iraq under Saddam. The Shiites are settling a score with the Baathists and Sunnis. A thoughtful plan for settling Iraq after the war would have recognized this and done more to prevent it from happening.

Does Islam not have an equivalent of the Jewish Ahavat Yisrael - where all the members of a religion have a duty and an obligation to love and care for each other, irrelevant of their personal differences?

Absolutely, but there are always extremists that want to exclude this group or that out of Islam. I'm quite sure that a jihadi could justify killing me and my family as infidels because we don't take part in jihad or for some other reason.

[Aviva]

You mean the way the Anglicans and Catholics lopped off each other's heads way back when? To us they all look the same, to them though I think it looks like a kind of Protestant revolt.

Yes, that's what I was trying to ascertain. Was that situation similiar to whatever caused Islam to split into groups?

With Catholics and Protestants, Henry VIII decided he wanted to divorce his wife and the Pope wouldn't allow it so he basically started a new form of Christianity that broke away from Rome.

[andak01]

As you can see from above, the original difference had nothing to do with a religious rift, but rather one over leadership. However, it seems that certain people gravitated towards Ali and others to the Ummayads. As time passed, the Shiites began to differentiate their customs and beliefs further and further from the Sunnis.

Aisha (RAA), the wife of Muhammad (SAW) was against the party of Ali. Therefore, not surprisingly, Shiites reject all of the many ahadith she related. By rejecting the hadiths of those Sahabi (companions) who didn't want Ali to be the first Caliph, they essentially established a separate set of Sunna and over time a separate Sharia law system.

In addition, since most lived in what are today Iraq and Iran, they added local customs to the practice of religion.

Shiites have a religious hierarchy of Ayatollahs and Imams that doesn't exist among Sunnis. The word Imam when used by a Shiite carries a much loftier connotation of someone who is one level below Allah. There are several Shiite sects that can be distinguished by how many Imams they accept.

[Aviva]

As you can see from above, the original difference had nothing to do with a religious rift, but rather one over leadership. However, it seems that certain people gravitated towards Ali and others to the Ummayads. As time passed, the Shiites began to differentiate their customs and beliefs further and further from the Sunnis.

Aisha (RAA), the wife of Muhammad (SAW) was against the party of Ali. Therefore, not surprisingly, Shiites reject all of the many ahadith she related. By rejecting the hadiths of those Sahabi (companions) who didn't want Ali to be the first Caliph, they essentially established a separate set of Sunna and over time a separate Sharia law system.

In addition, since most lived in what are today Iraq and Iran, they added local customs to the practice of religion.

Shiites have a religious hierarchy of Ayatollahs and Imams that doesn't exist among Sunnis. The word Imam when used by a Shiite carries a much loftier connotation of someone who is one level below Allah. There are several Shiite sects that can be distinguished by how many Imams they accept.

Thanks.

So does that mean there are different mosques for Sunni and Shi'ite?

Also, when you meet Muslims in general, are you concerned if they're Sunni or Shi'ite?

[Mediocrates]

I don't think the Anglican rift was religious. It was political, it was about power, it was about the King of England refusing to allow the Vatican decide who would be the next ruler of England.

There were all sorts of Protestant movements at the time but this I think was not inspired by Hus or Luther. Henry wanted absolute power.

[Aviva]

Absolutely, but there are always extremists that want to exclude this group or that out of Islam.

This is also very true of Judaism.

However, in Judaism there's always a lot of bickering about such matters but it almost never goes beyond the bickering and ostracising stage

[andak01]

Thanks.

So does that mean there are different mosques for Sunni and Shi'ite?

There are, but we should be able to pray in either one. I am very much in favor of putting these differences behind us. My wife was listening to a Shiite scholar and didn't even realize it until he started speaking about Ali.

Also, when you meet Muslims in general, are you concerned if they're Sunni or Shi'ite?

Fortunately, I live in America. We could show the world a thing or two about tolerance. I'd want to know only from a standpoint of not offending them. For example, I wouldn't want to quote a hadith from Aisha and go on and on about its wisdom.

You know, Iraq before the war had more Sunni/Shia intermarriages than any other place on earth. I can't imagine how those families are surviving the violence. And as I hear, the Sunnis are leaving Iraq in droves which is going to make it even tougher on those that remain. As well, it's not going to do much to improve the separation. And, as Iraq becomes more and more Shiite, they will naturally gravitate towards their Shiite neighbors to the East, Iran.

[Cellis]

andak can i ask you which one you belong to? you really do not have to answer. I'm just curious

[chaver4u2]

Once upon a time, there were no Shiites.

Once upon a time, only 14 centuries ago, there were no Sunnis either.....there were only a handful followers of Mohammed.
And now we have more than 70 different Muslim sects with 1.7 (Muslim figures) or 1.2 (UN figures) billion followers.
What really made it all run so much out of control?

[chaver4u2]

Once upon a time, only 14 centuries ago, there were no Sunnis either.....there were only a handful followers of Mohammed.
And now we have more than 70 different Muslim sects with 1.7 (Muslim figures) or 1.2 (UN figures) billion followers.
What really made it all run so much out of control?

Wait - silly me......I can use my own imagination and asnwer my own question: Israel and the Jews, of course.....they are the cause of all Muslim misery. Sorry, I should have been so much more realistic.

[andak01]

Wait - silly me......I can use my own imagination and asnwer my own question: Israel and the Jews, of course.....they are the cause of all Muslim misery. Sorry, I should have been so much more realistic.

If you want to believe that, it's up to you. I don't. All Muslims aren't miserable and all of us don't blame others for our troubles.

[andak01]

andak can i ask you which one you belong to? you really do not have to answer. I'm just curious

I'm Sunni. And if any Shiite is reading this and feels that I mispoke, please chime in. I tried to give as unbiased a description of Shiism as I could.