I don't live in the midwest I live down the street (sort of) from the largest Baptist seminary in the US, in the buckle of the bible belt. (Raleigh, NC)
St. Rudy in part. made NYC a place for only the very rich and the very homeless.
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I don't live in the midwest I live down the street (sort of) from the largest Baptist seminary in the US, in the buckle of the bible belt. (Raleigh, NC)
St. Rudy in part. made NYC a place for only the very rich and the very homeless.
From this page>>To be clear, Senator Obama has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ in Chicago. Furthermore, the Indonesian school Obama attended in Jakarta is a public school that is not and never has been a Madrassa.
...But he might be under the thumb of the ethonal & coal folk.
As a youth I used to weep in butcher's shops.
It's still a bargain compared to San Francisco or LA. Believe me.Originally Posted by Mediocrates
"It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders
Oh I don't know, could be. The average price of a Mahattan condo is ~$300,000 per room.
Please. Since when is a Christmas tree a religious icon? Christianity is almost nonexistent in Japan, yet every year millions of Christmas trees adorn Japanese homes and subway stations for the secular celebration of Christmas. A Menorah is a religious icon. A Christmas tree is not. The rabbi was being a publicity-seeking nit apparently bent of creating even more anti-Semitism than already exists. It's that simple.
The Christmas trees originates with nordic-religions, no? I don't think I've ever seen one in a RC Church.
I suppose it all depends what's on top of the tree, if it's a star, then the tree is a symbol of Christianity, if it's a fairy, then it ain't.
Most of the standard decorations aren't Christian icons either.
It's like Easter and chocolate eggs.
As a youth I used to weep in butcher's shops.
There is a mitzvah to publicize the Channukah miracle, it was a miracle in the struggle against religious intolerance. An issue we should all uphold. It's that simple.
About the tree, it has become a secular symbol in general, but in US is known as an Xmas tree and the hero of the holiday is Stn. Claus, pretty religious if you ask me.
But who gives a shoe about some pagan jump around the tree custom, a Menorah has its own merit to stand. And a whole lot of good meaning to go...
Now what is the lesson of decorating a tree???
p.s. The 7 branches of Menorah represent different approaches in understanding, and in general symbolizes the Miracle of the 8 days the oil burned with enough fuel for only one, as culmination of victory in the name of religious freedom. Isn't religious freedom an American concept?
Strangely, Xmas tree and Stn. Claus do not seem to make an appearance in US Consititution...
Neither does the offensive addage to the date - "in the year of our lard ...."
If the founding fathers didn't use that xtian terminology why does the US government of today???
In conclusion, Menorah, or more correctly the Channukiah is a symbol in the true spirit of USA!!!
Keep your religious symbols to yourselves or I am forced to spit at them, lest you think I respect it in any way.
Your man-god is not my lord, and I like being an American, so you see how there is a problem...
BTW, Psychopoops, you always get me excited...
He's been banned for about 2 months now, don't get too excitedBTW, Psychopoops, you always get me excited...
BTW, I thought you were Italian?
"It is cheap to attack Israel. I am certainly not going to make a cheap attack on Israel by howling in the woods with the rest of the wolves." - Geert Wilders
American living abroad with a permanent residence in Italy. I also have a toshav keva - permanent residence status in Israel. Originally from Ukraine...
There are tons of people who just love to pull up the paganism of the Chrisitmas tree, or the holiday itself. Especially Muslims. They put it down, they say this and that. They want to pull out Roman history and even go all the way back to Mithra tales. And today, we have groups like the ACLU who want to target the tree as some horrible thing put before public.
Well, first religiously, Christmas is not Christmas without the tree. It is A MAJOR symbol of our holiday. On top of it, there are tons of symbols & each have their own meaning. From crosses, candles, books, the early chrisitan symbols still exist on chruches - that were used to worship is secret, etc.
And why people want to put down St. Nick? I love passing out presents, etc. He went to all the poor, and gave money. And, that is what we try to do today.....emulate the same thing. It was the 'lesson' of St. Nick. Not only do I get presents for my family....but every year...I donate to the poor with money, and send things in to organizations like 'Toy for Tots.'
For us maronites....the Christmas tree story goes as so....Mary gave birth in a manager. And above or around the manager was a tree. So, every christmas we construct a manager under our trees. The star at the top, represents the star of Bethleham. It is that simple. We also put moss, seeds, etc...around our manager, and grow them. By the time christmas roles around, the whole tree looks very beautiful.
The tree is not removed until the "Epiphany of the Lord." Usually, that day is around 1 week after Christmas day.
Our next religious matter, does not take place until February, Ash Monday (Wednesday for Roman Catholics), which starts off Lent; in which we fast and abstain from meats for about 40 days. Then after Easter, we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.
But, now...let's analyse christianity and those who can't stand the symbols of it:
If you notice - CULTURALLY, after Lent, we have all these holidays, graduations, weddings, etc. It becomes the busiest time of the year for events across the West.
So, you see...one can debacle the tree & other christian items. But, no matter what one does, it has and will continue to strongly play a role in societies. One can remove all the Chrisitan symbols one wants, but it is still there.....that is why Jesus' message was so powerful. It is the same lesson in the 'Grinch who stoled christmas'.....the people still came out and sang.
And, when that Rabbi wanted a Menorah in the Airports, I really have nothing against him on it. IN FACT, the menorah is also a christian symbol. We were either Jewish-Chrisitan, Pagan Christians, etc. We have a stain-glass artwork of a Menorah in my church. Surprise, surprise! It is really big. I see it every Sunday - or when I go.
You see, from our history, the symbols we have, stem from all these other religious pasts. And, that is the beauty about Christianity....we learned a message and incorporated different ideas & customs to enhance Jesus' message. Didn't we use/do the same thing with the start-up of America? hmmmm.
The tree is not just a historical item, but it was a cultural concept incorporated from people coming in from different backgrounds while accepting christianity; and they tied it in. Jesus was revolutionary at his time....he basically accepted all those misfits tossed out into soceity, and taught us to love & treat others with equality, etc.
Anyways, my point is, that people can put down christain symbols, remove them, argue about them...and become offended by them. But the WHOLE joke is, that they stilll live with Christian notions; especially in the West; and it is a major reason why Islamic countries arrest, burn, and persecute Christians. It is the strongest religion - in my perspective - that totally contridicts their religion & government.
It was Jesus who died in the name of the poor, the betrotten, the sick & the weak. Not a Rabbi or an Imam. And what are the great words of the West? "Give us your poor, etc."
I mean, while in history there were great Jewish leaders.. such as Judeh, Queen Ester (my favorite)...by the time Christ came about...there were none. And many people were not even permitted to enter a synogue because they were deemed unclean, especially if they were sick with leprosy, etc. The message that Jesus taught the people....was so strong, that after his death...it still spread like fire....even though they even tried to kill the apostles. Saul, became Paul.... And today..countries were built off of that message.
So, as for the tree...I love it. It has so much meaning in it..from religion..all the way to the words we love to live under today: Freedom, Equality, Love, Peace, etc. And, I do find the irony in people who do not like it....because they live under the same message and traditions of Chrisitanity today, throughout the year. It just shows how blind they can be. And if they think that by removing the tree, or putting it down aids them somehow...then they better think twice. In order to remove religion completely from...it will have to go much deeper than that. They might as well, try to re-write the declaration of independance too, re-arrange graduations, mother's day, etc.
Well, maybe i did not write this so clear....I am tired. But, I hope you get the point out of it.
cya later. ......OB.
First let me appoligize for some offensive words above.
Read: Blame Psycopoops.
I think your innocent view of religion is nice, just like most other goodwilling people. I will not argue with you about the points you hold as the strength and advantages of your religion, since your approach is too superficial.
I agree, put an Xmas tree, Nativity scene, but consider that not adding Jewish, Oriental, or Muslim holiday decor would be religious discrimination.
It Italy, public schools were allowed to continue displaying the cross in every class room since they say it is a moral symbol... OK, but should the minority moral symbols be deprived? If requested, they should also add a Mezuzah at least....
Again, sorry for being offensive above.
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