Obama, from the U.S......

[varian]

I am staunchly pro-Israel, and I know that anything a politician utters in the midst of a campaign (especially presidential) can be taken with a grain of salt. Their positions change directions like a metronome. I don't vote, so I don't really care what they say for political reasons, but I do try to read into their words. One may learn what is really in a politicians heart (besides getting votes) by what they say, where they say it, and how they say it. Then find out how soon a specific position changes, or under what circumstances, and one can surmise their real position, if any, on any particular subject.

Zbigniew has been a meddler on a global scale. He is a self-proclaimed adviser to Obama, and it appears that he intends to be so whether the Obama campaign likes it or not. He may not necessarily be looking for a place in an Obama administration as much as he is looking to influence the appointment of a particular 'friendly' to a specific position in the administration. All administrations carry this type of baggage. Nothing really new.

As for impeaching "W"; open borders is as good a reason as any for me.

[sensible]

I am staunchly pro-Israel, and I know that anything a politician utters in the midst of a campaign (especially presidential) can be taken with a grain of salt. Their positions change directions like a metronome. I don't vote, so I don't really care what they say for political reasons, but I do try to read into their words. One may learn what is really in a politicians heart (besides getting votes) by what they say, where they say it, and how they say it. Then find out how soon a specific position changes, or under what circumstances, and one can surmise their real position, if any, on any particular subject.

Zbigniew has been a meddler on a global scale. He is a self-proclaimed adviser to Obama, and it appears that he intends to be so whether the Obama campaign likes it or not. He may not necessarily be looking for a place in an Obama administration as much as he is looking to influence the appointment of a particular 'friendly' to a specific position in the administration. All administrations carry this type of baggage. Nothing really new.

As for impeaching "W"; open borders is as good a reason as any for me.

What do you mean by "open borders"?

[varian]

By open borders I mean that illegal immigration is allowed and even encouraged by "W", McCain, and many other politicos. The sovereignty of any nation is an affront to the globalist robber barons, and the Southern border problem in the US is part of the plan to attack the sovereignty of the US and nullify the Constitution. Since all my relatives were legal immigrants (as recently as fraternal grandparents), I have no problem with legal immigration. Many illegal hispanics have to pay a coyote to bring them across the border where they are held in safe houses until the coyotes fees are paid in full. This makes illegal immigration a modified slave trade. IMHO, for politicians to do nothing to address the problem is nothing short of treasonous, no matter what ones title happens to be.

[andak01]

This makes illegal immigration a modified slave trade. IMHO, for politicians to do nothing to address the problem is nothing short of treasonous, no matter what ones title happens to be.

Nah! Slave trade? Can't be. The Christians defeated slavery from the bad ol' Muslims over a century ago and only Muslims practice it anymore, right? Eastern European sex trafficcing is something different. Mexican indentured servants is something different. Thai sex slav.. er prostitutes are something different. Unpaid child labor in India is something different. Unpaid child soldiers across Africa, Asia and South America is something different. All hail the Christian saviors of the earth! Slavery is dead!

[Mediocrates]

By that I mean if the issue is illegality then end the illegality. If people come here, and they're not criminals then make them citizens then and there just as we did before the quota system was started after WW1. My ancestors came here, passed some basic test like not having pinkeye and they were let in. Millions of immigrants from 1880-1930 had the same experience. So today if the issue is "They're not in the system" then put them there. Give them a SS card, make them citizens, have them pay taxes, send their kids to schools, etc etc and so forth. Problem solved. You can't legally pay citizens less than the minimum wage, you can't threaten them with deportation, and you can't say they don't contribute.

[scattergood]

Nah! Slave trade? Can't be. The Christians defeated slavery from the bad ol' Muslims over a century ago and only Muslims practice it anymore, right? Eastern European sex trafficcing is something different. Mexican indentured servants is something different. Thai sex slav.. er prostitutes are something different. Unpaid child labor in India is something different. Unpaid child soldiers across Africa, Asia and South America is something different. All hail the Christian saviors of the earth! Slavery is dead!

Nice, if child soldiers were paid, it'd be ok? That's just sick!

[andak01]

Nice, if child soldiers were paid, it'd be ok? That's just sick!

Your mind is sick if you think that was my point. Then, why should I be surprised? You must really have a twisted brain to come up with the opinions you ascribe to me. I didn't say "if they were paid, it'd be OK", but when has that ever stopped you from putting your sick, twisted thoughts into my mouth?

[scattergood]

Your mind is sick if you think that was my point. Then, why should I be surprised? You must really have a twisted brain to come up with the opinions you ascribe to me. I didn't say "if they were paid, it'd be OK", but when has that ever stopped you from putting your sick, twisted thoughts into my mouth?

No one is putting words in your mouth, that's what the "?" means. To most people that means a question or query, one that you can respond to.

However, you are the one who put 'unpaid child soldiers' in your list of 'slaves', not me. Why did you do so? Why was it important to qualify the 'child soldiers' as 'unpaid'? Why didn't you say 'child soldiers', or 'child slave soldier' or 'under age force concripts' or any of a myriad of other descriptions? You put words like 'unpaid' for 'child soldiers' not me.

Further, I should have added that the same language was applied to 'Unpaid child labor in India', so I would assume that the same issue was at play, that if they were paid it'd be better.

[Mediocrates]

"Slavery" is a word. The enforced transport and labor of people against their will for no pay is an act. It has many different nuances. Even the definition of what a 'child' is, is up for grabs. I've seen quite a few scary AK lugging 'children' in my time. There isn't even a consistent legal definition of 'child' in the US. It could be anything from 14 to 21 depending on where and what.

[varian]

Nah! Slave trade? Can't be. The Christians defeated slavery from the bad ol' Muslims over a century ago and only Muslims practice it anymore, right? Eastern European sex trafficcing is something different. Mexican indentured servants is something different. Thai sex slav.. er prostitutes are something different. Unpaid child labor in India is something different. Unpaid child soldiers across Africa, Asia and South America is something different. All hail the Christian saviors of the earth! Slavery is dead!

You know, you may be onto something here. Muslims and Christians make up approximately 2-3 billion people in global population and both groups have been a collective pain in the worlds a$$ for multiple thousands of years combined. The elimination of all Christians and Muslims would definitely solve a lot of the worlds problems, not to mention that thinning out the human population would help fight global warming and help address other urgent problems such as famine and plague. So let's support the immediate extermination of all Christians and Muslims. That's a very profound concept; I'm glad that you brought it up. Let's work on that shall we???

[andak01]

That's a very profound concept; I'm glad that you brought it up. Let's work on that shall we???

Why sure. The Jews had almost no troubles before us Muslims and the Christians, except from the Romans and the Egyptians and the Babylonians, etc.

[varian]

Your posts are getting more and more convoluted with each post. My original premise had to do with the coyotes getting payment by smuggling illegal hispanics across the Southern border of the US. You then deflect the content and include references to Christian and Muslim slavers!!??!! When I counter with a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that maybe all Christians and Muslims ought to be eradicated for the benefit of the rest of the world, you fire a shot at the Jews. You forgot Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, Bahias, Marxists, Socialists, Atheists, Agnostics, Animists, or any other 'ists on the planet that are not favorable to the American Democrat Party or Islam. You really wear your feelings on your sleeve, and sometimes your posts don't follow a logical progression, but rather any subject that happens to be sticking in your craw at any given time and place. Many on this forum do not appreciate Christians or Muslims because of their supercessionist religions that try to deemphasize and marginalize Judaism. Both religions fail miserably on that account (MHO only). Both religions have borrowed extensively from other religions as well, and yet try to claim direct authority from some god. Like I said before, you are free to believe what you want to believe, but some of your real feelings show through from time to time. Time wounds all heels, and Christianity as well as Islam are the resident heels on this forum. Get over it!!!

[andak01]

When I counter with a tongue-in-cheek suggestion that maybe all Christians and Muslims ought to be eradicated for the benefit of the rest of the world, you fire a shot at the Jews.

Forgive me. When you talk about erradicating me and my family for the good of mankind I suppose I wasn't laughing hard enough. After all, a couple of posters here have said almost the same with a straight face.

You forgot Buddists, Taoists, Hindus, Bahias, Marxists, Socialists, Atheists, Agnostics, Animists, or any other 'ists on the planet that are not favorable to the American Democrat Party or Islam.

What has one got to do with the other? Are you saying that a Muslim has to be Democrat?

You really wear your feelings on your sleeve, and sometimes your posts don't follow a logical progression, but rather any subject that happens to be sticking in your craw at any given time and place. Many on this forum do not appreciate Christians or Muslims because of their supercessionist religions that try to deemphasize and marginalize Judaism.

That's fair enough. Why would you? My only gripe is trying to rewrite history to a JudeoChristian hug-in while saying that no Muslims and Jews have ever gotten along. That's what evangelical Christians want to hear, but it simply isn't the case. You said it. Both religions have acted supercessionist and both if acting theocratically would cause major problems for the Jews. The tolerance that Jews experience in secular states is just that.

Both religions fail miserably on that account (MHO only).

When you are speaking of them acting imperially in the world as replacement theologies, I agree.

Both religions have borrowed extensively from other religions as well, and yet try to claim direct authority from some god.

You certainly have the right to disagree and to hold to your own beliefs. As for me, I think you are aware that I'm immune to a little kick around the block. I'll try to get over your suggestion that we all be exterminated as I can see it was meant to be funny. Haw, haw!

[redcake]

Andak - You should get to slide away from your assertions regarding anti-Israel candidates. These were lousy candidates for far greater reasons then their take on Israel. In the case of Cynthia Mckinney she was an outright bigot who had bigger problems then her fixation with Jews. You know how we feel about the implication that the Israeli lobby has undue influence, and saying an American candidate must pander to the Jewish vote is equally as reprehensible.

[whizee]

Democratic Party has proven input at primary, and its super delegate system does not in fact g'tee each vote counts. obama is a masterful speaker,just see the video that posted in pollclash. But has a questionable understanding of economics. Welcome back to the economic struggles of the late 1970's and foreign policy of "jimmy carter's panama canal giveaway team"