Clash between Islam and west is political, poll finds

[andak01]

"Most people round the world clearly reject the idea that Islam and the west are caught in an inevitable clash of civilisations," said Steven Kull, director of the Programme on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which was also involved in the survey of 28,000 people.

In the UK, 77% of those polled believe Islam and the west can find common ground. In Italy the figure is 78%, in France 69% but only 49% in Germany. A majority of Americans (64%) think it is possible to find common ground, though about a third (31%) believe violent conflict is inevitable.

The concept of a "clash of civilisations" originated with the Harvard thinker Samuel Huntington, who argued that conflict between cultures, especially between the west and Islam, was replacing the old cold war confrontation between east and west. Similar language is used by Osama Bin Laden and other jihadists.

The BBC survey found that 58% attributed tensions to intolerant minorities, rather than fundamental differences between cultures.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...016643,00.html

[Mediocrates]

What common ground? No one really disputes that religions and world views can't in part coexist. But so? Containment as a model worked fine vis a vis the east and west for more than 45 years. That's quite different from rapprochement and probably a good model for the relationship between the political west and political Islam in the mid east and West Asia. Again, the only common ground, would seem to be that we agree there is no common ground.

[Agnosthiest]

Clash between Islam and west is political, poll finds

too bad Islam itself is politics.

[Illuminatus]

Indians are more pessimistic than the rest of the world about finding common ground between Islam and the West even as they remain marginally more optimistic than everyone else that violence will be avoided in the clash of civilizations.

While 56 per cent overall believes there is no inherent incompatibility between Islam and the West only 35 per cent of Indians took this reassuring view.

The survey used an Indian sample of 1616 respondents, reflecting both urban and rural opinion.

India is a rapidly developing nation that is leaving the 3rd world Islamic nations behind in the dust and could very easily rival the economies of the USA and Europe in about 30 years.

^_^

[Aviva]

"Most people round the world clearly reject the idea that Islam and the west are caught in an inevitable clash of civilisations," said Steven Kull, director of the Programme on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, which was also involved in the survey of 28,000 people.

In the UK, 77% of those polled believe Islam and the west can find common ground. In Italy the figure is 78%, in France 69% but only 49% in Germany. A majority of Americans (64%) think it is possible to find common ground, though about a third (31%) believe violent conflict is inevitable.

The concept of a "clash of civilisations" originated with the Harvard thinker Samuel Huntington, who argued that conflict between cultures, especially between the west and Islam, was replacing the old cold war confrontation between east and west. Similar language is used by Osama Bin Laden and other jihadists.

The BBC survey found that 58% attributed tensions to intolerant minorities, rather than fundamental differences between cultures.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/S...016643,00.html

The BBC? The Guardian? Neither is going to give you a clear picture of general attitudes in Britain because both are committed to wet lefty liberalism. They express the opinions of those people who adhere to that way of thinking.

Your average person on the street in Britain wouldn't necessarily express these fashionable and socially acceptable Islington dinner party opinions. Many would be reticent about speaking their mind because currently in Britain if you criticise Muslims or Asians, you're accused of being racist.

[andak01]

The BBC? The Guardian? Neither is going to give you a clear picture of general attitudes in Britain because both are committed to wet lefty liberalism. They express the opinions of those people who adhere to that way of thinking.

We can create a clash of civilizations if we wish. Heck, if everyone pulls together, we can probably conjure up dragons too, or at least live as though they existed. But personally, I don't want to live my live in fear of others or by making others fear me. Its a personal choice to live as though there is a clash of civilizations or not, and I chose not. Every person that choses like me will decrease the reality of this imagined clash. And every person that choses to live in fear and distrust of the "other" increases that reality.

What you've got to understand is that those who hold to the clash theory get an amazing payoff in terms of gaining power in their community. It doesn't matter if you are a mullah or a militant right winger, the clash is your ticket. Denying it makes you weak on terrorism or weak on modernism. It means you can't lead a mob, you have to lead yourself instead.

Forgive me for being weak on Armageddon. No, I don't want a clash of civilizations and I will obstruct that dead end with every fiber of my being.

Your average person on the street in Britain wouldn't necessarily express these fashionable and socially acceptable Islington dinner party opinions. Many would be reticent about speaking their mind because currently in Britain if you criticise Muslims or Asians, you're accused of being racist.

And here, for the past few years, protesting an endless war in the middle east made you a pro-Saddam or pro-Terrorist. It's much easier to live as a racist than as something which can get you on a no-fly list or worse.

After more than a year of complaints by some US anti-war activists that they were being unfairly targeted by airport security, Washington has admitted the existence of a list, possibly hundreds or even thousands of names long, of people it deems worthy of special scrutiny at airports.
The list had been kept secret until its disclosure last week by the new US agency in charge of aviation safety, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA). And it is entirely separate from the relatively well-publicised "no-fly" list, which covers about 1,000 people believed to have criminal or terrorist ties that could endanger the safety of their fellow passengers.

The strong suspicion of such groups as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which is suing the government to try to learn more, is that the second list has been used to target political activists who challenge the government in entirely legal ways. The TSA acknowledged the existence of the list in response to a Freedom of Information Act request concerning two anti-war activists from San Francisco who were stopped and briefly detained at the airport last autumn and told they were on an FBI no-fly list.

The activists, Rebecca Gordon and Jan Adams, work for a small pacifist magazine called War Times and say they have never been arrested, let alone have criminal records.



http://www.nathannewman.org/log/archives/001036.shtml

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0803-03.htm

[Bloodnut]

There is no such thing as apolitical Islam, but andak01 already knew that.

What you've got to understand is that those who hold to the clash theory get an amazing payoff in terms of gaining power in their community. It doesn't matter if you are a mullah or a militant right winger, the clash is your ticket.

Please name your list of “militant right-wingers.” Please name your list of those who have received “amazing payoff in terms of gaining power” by holding to the clash theory. I cannot think of any right-winger who promotes violence against Muslims, outside a military context. Far-flung Muslims everywhere are naturally militant because they are abiding by Islamic principles, particularly jihad. There is a reason why most terrorists today are Muslims.

We both know you have no earthly idea what you’re talking about. You’re just trying to justify the unwarranted fear Muslims say they have from non-Muslims. It is an absolute joke. Even 6 years after 9-11 whatever list of violence against Muslims you could conjure up would be hilariously small when compared to the ongoing jihadist activity throughout the entire world.

And here, for the past few years, protesting an endless war in the middle east made you a pro-Saddam or pro-Terrorist. It's much easier to live as a racist than as something which can get you on a no-fly list or worse.

Cry us a river already and get off your soap-box. Why don’t you complain to your six imams who staged a stunt at the airport recently? How can we trust Muslims when their own community leaders are pulling political stunts like these, constantly crying and moaning about a non-existent bias? The fact that they were able to get away with this nonsense for so long proves you are full of hot air. And why do you automatically assume those who are on an FBI, didn’t do something to deserve it? People like you give Muslims you’ve never met, the benefit of the doubt while constantly criticizing the intelligence services that are supposed to protect the nation from terrorism. And you have the audacity to sit there scratching your head as to why someone would think you’re on the terrorist’s side?

It is because of idiots like these six imams that Muslims have it hard at the airports. And why not complain to the Muslims who make this situation? Because you know you would be excommunicated from your local mosque the same as the guy in Oklahoma who dared criticize Muslim terrorists by name. If it were not for a world filled with militant Muslims who want to do us harm, you wouldn’t have anything to cry about. As it is, Muslims should be profiled because Militant Muslims are the greatest threat and only Muslims become militant Muslims. It is a simply deduction of the facts. The KKK doesn’t have a track record of hijacking jumbo-jets. Neither does the IRA. Neither does any other extremist group you would try to use as an equivalent.

Racists have it better you say? Prove it. You cannot even prove racism because like most Islamic apologists, you pretend Islam is a race. How many racists have been able to sue giant corporations for millions, simply because someone in their marketing dept. created a logo that bizarrely resembles an Arabic word for God? (when in fact it looked nothing like it) Nike lost millions, and pulled a hundred thousands shoes from the shelves because it was afraid of the Muslim lobby. Further, it donated a half million to the Muslim cause and sent its executives to “sensitivity” training whereby CAIR reps charged $1000/per. Muslims in America have found the greatest scam every available to minorities. Muslims in America are becoming nothing more than a con-artist who use race-baiting as a means to swindle corporations for millions. And where does this money go? To create more mosques and promote more lawsuits of course, even though they conjure up some lame “building bridges” and creating “understanding of Islam” nonsense as their intentions.

Americans see this and we’re supposed to feel sorry for you? My mother is an American Indian, and I never saw her pull one of these stunts.

How many racists burn down their own businesses and then report to the police that hate-mongerers did it?
(Muslims have done this and CAIR uses these stats to bolster their exaggerated “crimes against Muslims” figures)

How many racists can commit traffic violence in the name of their racism, and then the local police write up the report as “road rage”?
(Muslims violence is often written up as something other than hate crimes)

How many racists have been able to gain special privileges in using government property for religious purposes?
(Only Muslims are using rooms in public schools and airports for prayers)

Muslims have gained privileges no other group could ever hope to enjoy.

Protesting the war makes you a terrorist? What an absolutely idiotic comment. I don’t recall anyone calling the plethora of American politicians, such as Al Gore, a terrorist. Get over your victim hood complex and join the rest of us in the real world. You act like you’re persecuted for being Muslims but the fact is if you live in America you have it better than any other group. This is a fact proved by statistics. Muslims make more money and enjoy more privileges than the average citizen. Muslims in America represent the most privileged Muslims in the world, and this in spite of all those dastardly racists you insist make your lives so miserable.